Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[fcc-pt]

I'm sorry for the lame question but this is my first attempt to do something like resurface both heads of X30XE.
I wonder if I still need a lock set once I'll remove both heads for resurface?
I'm almost sure I don't since I can always synchronize engine by using crankshaft big end pulley / oil pump marks and camshaft pulley marks right?!? 

[Nick W]

I'm sorry for the lame question but this is my first attempt to do something like resurface both heads of X30XE.
I wonder if I still need a lock set once I'll remove both heads for resurface?
I'm almost sure I don't since I can always synchronize engine by using crankshaft big end pulley / oil pump marks and camshaft pulley marks right?!? 

None of those marks are accurate enough to get the timing anywhere other than 'close'


You need the whole set to get the timing right. Using it is also much easier than trying to get by without it.


I found that my engine was a tooth out on all four cams. There were tippex makes on every pulley, so I suspect that it was done without the tools - one mechanic I worked with was proud of the fact that he had never used any timing tool Fitting the new belt correctly improved performance, comfort(it ran noticeably smoother) and economy - the 3MPG improvement would have easily covered the £40 I paid for the timing set.


Be aware that there isn't a lot of material to remove from the head surfaces, and that you need to check that the inlet manifolds and plenum will still fit.

[fcc-pt]

Ok I totally get it!

But, what if I need to replace crankshaft bearings?
I'll need the lock set as well right?!? And probably some kind of dial indicator for TDC?!?
Supposing I will need to make use of lock tools and marks and check if TDC is correct?!?

[Nick W]

Ok I totally get it!

But, what if I need to replace crankshaft bearings?
I'll need the lock set as well right?!? And probably some kind of dial indicator for TDC?!?
Supposing I will need to make use of lock tools and marks and check if TDC is correct?!?

Changing the crankshaft bearings has nothing to do with the camshafts! It's basic engine rebuilding. Assemble the short block, bolt on the heads, and install then valve train. Then, you need the timing tools to fit the timing belt.


The crank lock that's part of the timing set is indexed by the bolt holes in the pulley that is indexed by the key in the front of the crank. No DTI is needed.  I've used a DTI twice to check TDC, and both times were to dial in performance cams: one(Pinto) had an adjustable pulley which was easy, and the other(2.9 Ford) was a stock gear that was a lot fiddlier.

[fcc-pt]

What makes me a lot of confusion is how to get the engine on the right time on a complete rebuild!
What if I take the whole engine apart and machine shop with it (engine block, crankshaft, heads etc.)?
So now, I need to put everything back and time the engine to factory params but if I can't guide myself by the engine marks how do I do it?
Do I need to set crankshaft in some position?
Here is where I think I have to get the TDC for cylinder 1 and from there lock the engine right?

[Nick W]

What makes me a lot of confusion is how to get the engine on the right time on a complete rebuild!
What if I take the whole engine apart and machine shop with it (engine block, crankshaft, heads etc.)?
So now, I need to put everything back and time the engine to factory params but if I can't guide myself by the engine marks how do I do it?
Do I need to set crankshaft in some position?
Here is where I think I have to get the TDC for cylinder 1 and from there lock the engine right?

Unless you've managed to move the centreline of any of the shafts(which would cause all sorts of horrific mechanical problems), the marks on the engine for the crank and each camshaft already give you the basic positions you want.


Assemble the engine until you're ready to fit the timing belt, and align the crank to TDC with the marks on the pulley and front cover.


 You then turn the crank back 60degrees to give valve to piston clearance, next you use the cam gauge to align each pair of cams in turn and fit their respective locks, and finally fit the crank lock and rotate the crank into position. Doing this aligns everything, and any amount you machined off the block/heads is accommodated by the adjustments in the belt eccentrics.


Opel's way of setting the cam timing is very German, but it does work. Honda's Vtec quad-cam V6s use a mark on the crankshaft, and a 6mm pin through each campulley into the head to give both alignment and locking. This is much simpler and doesn't lead to this thread's sort of over thinking.

[fcc-pt]

Do I need check the TDC with a gauge indicator or crankshaft pinion / oil pump marks are fine?
Don't get why do I need turn the crank back 60degrees?

[Nick W]

Do I need check the TDC with a gauge indicator or crankshaft pinion / oil pump marks are fine?
Don't get why do I need turn the crank back 60degrees?

you don't need to know TDC to that level of accuracy! Oil pump mark is fine.


Most people start with a short-block(block, crank, pistons, sump, front cover etc) set to TDC. Once you start turning the cams on a V6 at TDC, some of the valves could clip a piston. Turning it back puts all six pistons down the bore, and is safe for you to manipulate the cams as necessary. Then you fit the crank lock, turn so it's engaged and start fitting the belt.


Dial indicators are used for setting up performance cams, they're rarely necessary on stock ones

[fcc-pt]

All the six at a time with only 60 degree ccw? Never thought about that I'm thinking that lack of TDC accuracy can lead to bad timing which by its tune increase fuel consumption, unpleasant ride etc.

[fcc-pt]

next you use the cam gauge to align each pair of cams

How is that done? Can't i use the marks instead and lock both cams before fit the timing belt?

[Doctor Gollum]

And risk locking the cams out of time?

I would have suggested buying the dvd and watching it, but that is not currently an option. 

[fcc-pt]

And risk locking the cams out of time?

I would have suggested buying the dvd and watching it, but that is not currently an option. 

I would gladly get it... but since it's not available I need your help 

[fcc-pt]

I bet my balls that the vast majority of mechanics align everything by the marks 

[fcc-pt]

It looks I was right this guy is using engine marks on a very similar if not the same engine!
https://youtu.be/DFWtovLxE4Y

[fcc-pt]

And risk locking the cams out of time?

I would have suggested buying the dvd and watching it, but that is not currently an option. 

I see how the cam gauge is used

https://youtu.be/DFWtovLxE4Y?t=727