Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 23 September 2019, 18:08:31
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Evening chaps hope you’re all well. Was doing my oil / filter today and noticed a larger than normal leak from the filter housing area (there’s always been a slight leak). Cleaned it all off, dried it and after doing the oil change I just let it run on the ramp. Sure enough oil started to accumulate at the bottom of the housing where it meets the block. This is the housing for the paper element type.
I assume if I remove the housing there’ll be a gasket that’s perished? Any info on it would be great as I don’t remember ever removing the housing. I assume it’s just spin it off once the lid and filter is removed? Cheers boys
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Ps it’s a 2.5. V6 👍👍👍
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Are you sure the leak isn't higher up and running down?
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It's been covered in the past
some people buy an insert and convert to a spin on filter
IIRC as long as the housing is not cracked then you can unscrew the retaining nipple and replace the seal
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Thanks guys. No, 100% not higher up. I hosed it down with brake cleaner and dried it off with air. While car was running I had a little mirror checking above the filter, round the cooler lines etc and it was bone dry. All the oil was around the base of the housing.
Ok Dave so the spin on conversion is done for this issue? I didn’t realise that; I assumed it was done cos some people preferred the canister and some preferred paper element.
Thanks for that I’ll just convert it 👍👍👍👍
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Typical symptom of repeated cap overtightening. Subsequent removal force will snap off the locating lug between the housing and block allowing it to rotate against the retaining bolt, loosening it enough to allow leakage.
You need a new housing and new seal or do the spin on conversion and never worry again :y
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Cheers kids. I’ll do the spin on conversion 👍
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Cheers kids. I’ll do the spin on conversion 👍
I suspect the spin on one is partly the cause of crank sensor failures. Its certainly messier to change the oil. I would strongly recommend keeping the superior later type.
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Cheers kids. I’ll do the spin on conversion 👍
I suspect the spin on one is partly the cause of crank sensor failures. Its certainly messier to change the oil. I would strongly recommend keeping the superior later type.
I would disagree. Converted all my V6s and crank sensor failure was circa every 125k... Oil changes were every 10k.
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Cheers kids. I’ll do the spin on conversion 👍
I suspect the spin on one is partly the cause of crank sensor failures. Its certainly messier to change the oil. I would strongly recommend keeping the superior later type.
I would disagree. Converted all my V6s and crank sensor failure was circa every 125k... Oil changes were every 10k.
Yeah, about 80-120k matches my data for crank sensor failure with spin-ons, not many genuine ones fall outside that. Not sure if spread is due to how often oil is changed.
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I suspect that it is a design life as that's the window that the suspension typically fails at along with thermostat and cam covers etc... And another reason why the Omega has a reputation for unreliability and repair cost post 100k miles :-\
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Cheers kids. I’ll do the spin on conversion 👍
I suspect the spin on one is partly the cause of crank sensor failures. Its certainly messier to change the oil. I would strongly recommend keeping the superior later type.
I would disagree. Converted all my V6s and crank sensor failure was circa every 125k... Oil changes were every 10k.
Yeah, about 80-120k matches my data for crank sensor failure with spin-ons, not many genuine ones fall outside that. Not sure if spread is due to how often oil is changed.
Mine definitely failed within that range .. original canister filter.
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Ok kids. The man from Vauxhall’s no longer sells the screw in fitting thingy. Anyone got a spare they could sell to the bear 🐻
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Let me just have a look.
No.
Sorry.
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To be fair mate I wouldn’t expect you to have. Invalid carriages don’t utilise oil filters. 😃😃😃👍👍👍
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Ok kids. The man from Vauxhall’s no longer sells the screw in fitting thingy. Anyone got a spare they could sell to the bear 🐻
Run the part number through ebay/google :y
Alternatively Nick W can probably give you the dimensions from memory 8)
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To be fair mate I wouldn’t expect you to have. Invalid carriages don’t utilise oil filters. 😃😃😃👍👍👍
Oh yes they fickin do, Mr Mechanic :P
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar
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To be fair mate I wouldn’t expect you to have. Invalid carriages don’t utilise oil filters. 😃😃😃👍👍👍
Oh yes they fickin do, Mr Mechanic :P
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar
Can you imagine doing 82mph in a 'Spaz Chariot'? :o :o
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To be fair mate I wouldn’t expect you to have. Invalid carriages don’t utilise oil filters. 😃😃😃👍👍👍
Oh yes they fickin do, Mr Mechanic :P
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar
Sorry I meant electric wheelchair 🤣🤣👍👍👍
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Here do...
https://www.vauxhall-car-parts.co.uk/acatalog/Vauxhall-Oil-Filter-Connector---90144360.html :y
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To be fair mate I wouldn’t expect you to have. Invalid carriages don’t utilise oil filters. 😃😃😃👍👍👍
Oh yes they fickin do, Mr Mechanic :P
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invacar
Can you imagine doing 82mph in a 'Spaz Chariot'? :o :o
It would need to have a built-in commode :o
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Official name was Invacar. A bloke on the Autoshite forum collects them !
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Official name was Invacar. A bloke on the Autoshite forum collects them !
So that's why it says invacar in the link? ;D
You're on form today, Albs. ;D
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Here do...
https://www.vauxhall-car-parts.co.uk/acatalog/Vauxhall-Oil-Filter-Connector---90144360.html :y
Spot on. Cheers dg 👍👍👍
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Ok kids. The man from Vauxhall’s no longer sells the screw in fitting thingy. Anyone got a spare they could sell to the bear 🐻
Run the part number through ebay/google :y
Alternatively Nick W can probably give you the dimensions from memory 8)
it's a tube about 50mm long threaded M18x1.5 externally. Not worth making one when you can buy them from QED motorsport for £12. Look on the lubrication page for XE engines. Or unscrew one from any dead Vx or Ford 4 cylinder that you might have lying around - I know a Pinto one works, which means X-flow Cologne and CVH will, and so will either of the Rootes 4s.
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Evening gays, I mean guys 😃
Sorry for bumping but I forgot to ask....
I am going to be converting this to spin on filter (not only will it sort my immediate leak issue but I actually prefer them) and I was just wondering what I should torque the new fitting to? I’m thinking 45nm as per the old filter housing? TIA 👍
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FT! :y
It ain't coming out again anyway. ;D
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Evening gays, I mean guys 😃
Sorry for bumping but I forgot to ask....
I am going to be converting this to spin on filter (not only will it sort my immediate leak issue but I actually prefer them) and I was just wondering what I should torque the new fitting to? I’m thinking 45nm as per the old filter housing? TIA 👍
Hand tight like all spin on filters should be bear.
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Evening gays, I mean guys 😃
Sorry for bumping but I forgot to ask....
I am going to be converting this to spin on filter (not only will it sort my immediate leak issue but I actually prefer them) and I was just wondering what I should torque the new fitting to? I’m thinking 45nm as per the old filter housing? TIA 👍
Hand tight like all spin on filters should be bear.
I think he means the tube rather than the filter. :y
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It's in Haynes iirc. Degrease thread and block and insert with permanent threadlock. Allow to cure before fitting filter... ;)
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Evening gays, I mean guys 😃
Sorry for bumping but I forgot to ask....
I am going to be converting this to spin on filter (not only will it sort my immediate leak issue but I actually prefer them) and I was just wondering what I should torque the new fitting to? I’m thinking 45nm as per the old filter housing? TIA 👍
Hand tight like all spin on filters should be bear.
I think he means the tube rather than the filter. :y
the tube is just that: a tube with 2 short lengths of thread, or is threaded along its length so there's no way to torque it accurately. You squirt some brake cleaner into the threads in the block, apply some ordinary Loctite to the adapter and screw it in by hand. This means it stays in place when you unscrew the oil filter that is only fitted hand tight. Just like the milions of engines that use this system that replaced separate paper filters over sixty years ago. Having another casting attached to the block to house the filter is a backward step.
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The official one has an internal hex ;)
14mm iirc...
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The official one has an internal hex ;)
14mm iirc...
none of the ones I've seen did, two of which were bought over the counter from a dealer and supplied in sealed GM packaging. Ford ones don't either.
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Perhaps the 14mm hex was for removing the old retaining bolt :-\
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So is it hand tight or oppsin tight? 🤣🤣🤣
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Wind it into the stop plus a half wrist*... Just be sure to degrease the thread in the block otherwise the thread lock won't hold.
It only needs to resist the quarter wrist used to fit the filter :D
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Cheers mate. I’ll hammer gun it in then 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Cheers mate. I’ll hammer gun it in then 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ah, you've become a proper mechanic! ;) ;D
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Cheers mate. I’ll hammer gun it in then 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That reminds me, I need to check the wheelbolts on TBE for the wheel that blackcircles had to have a 2nd go at on Saturday (because they forgot the sealing shite the first time around).
Apart from fatty in town, who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, I usually only take the wheels to a tyre place, not the car. But as they cocked up, and time was tight, I was left with limited options :(
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..., who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, ...
I'm going to have to clamp down on their use on my car. I spent ages a few weeks back making sure all bolts had their stainless cap .... rattle guns just bugger the cap up, it falls off & you end up with a flower shaped bolt that only a 6 sided 17mm socket will only just get hold of. I've used a flavour of Loctite to glue some of them on.
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..., who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, ...
I'm going to have to clamp down on their use on my car. I spent ages a few weeks back making sure all bolts had their stainless cap .... rattle guns just bugger the cap up, it falls off & you end up with a flower shaped bolt that only a 6 sided 17mm socket will only just get hold of. I've used a flavour of Loctite to glue some of them on.
I have a Jaaaaaagggg, with Ford derived wheelnuts. The stainless caps are quite capable of falling off on their own accord. They become almost a service item, crappy things.
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..., who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, ...
I'm going to have to clamp down on their use on my car. I spent ages a few weeks back making sure all bolts had their stainless cap .... rattle guns just bugger the cap up, it falls off & you end up with a flower shaped bolt that only a 6 sided 17mm socket will only just get hold of. I've used a flavour of Loctite to glue some of them on.
I have a Jaaaaaagggg, with Ford derived wheelnuts. The stainless caps are quite capable of falling off on their own accord. They become almost a service item, crappy things.
The type of wheel the Senators had was a better idea .. cover the centre of the wheel with a cap & that way the bolts/nuts can be a rusty as they want as you can't see them :y
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..., who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, ...
I'm going to have to clamp down on their use on my car. I spent ages a few weeks back making sure all bolts had their stainless cap .... rattle guns just bugger the cap up, it falls off & you end up with a flower shaped bolt that only a 6 sided 17mm socket will only just get hold of. I've used a flavour of Loctite to glue some of them on.
I have a Jaaaaaagggg, with Ford derived wheelnuts. The stainless caps are quite capable of falling off on their own accord. They become almost a service item, crappy things.
The type of wheel the Senators had was a better idea .. cover the centre of the wheel with a cap & that way the bolts/nuts can be a rusty as they want as you can't see them :y
My Renault 19 16v had wheel centres like that on alloy wheels.. one of them made a bid for freedom in a 30mph area once; they make quite the impressive weapon! Luckily it only embedded itself in a hedge..
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..., who knows better than to use a windy on my cars, ...
I'm going to have to clamp down on their use on my car. I spent ages a few weeks back making sure all bolts had their stainless cap .... rattle guns just bugger the cap up, it falls off & you end up with a flower shaped bolt that only a 6 sided 17mm socket will only just get hold of. I've used a flavour of Loctite to glue some of them on.
I have a Jaaaaaagggg, with Ford derived wheelnuts. The stainless caps are quite capable of falling off on their own accord. They become almost a service item, crappy things.
The type of wheel the Senators had was a better idea .. cover the centre of the wheel with a cap & that way the bolts/nuts can be a rusty as they want as you can't see them :y
That reminds me, need to buy a new wheel centre for the Battlebus, after she used it for work last week.
Given the number of centre caps she loses, always drivers side, I suspect some little Coventry scrote has a business nicking them >:(
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My little dewalt guns them to around 70nm if I was to guess. Leaving them perfectly ready for a smooth one motion torquing 😎😎😎
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Chap at vauxhall spares just emailed to say they no longer sell the fitting. Anyone got a spare? Cheers
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Chap at vauxhall spares just emailed to say they no longer sell the fitting. Anyone got a spare? Cheers
A bit of imagination goes a long way...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VAUXHALL-FITTING-GENUINE-NEW-90144360-/162314358715?_ul=GB
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Apologies DG.... I remember you said eBay too :-[
Miraculously I have in my hand a fitting. I'd completely forgotten that I'd got a spare block with the canister fitting!!!!
Couple of Q's though.... firstly it wasn't in tight. It came out easily with grips. This is because there are no places inside for a hex or torx. So question 1.) will it be ok to wind in by hand with just the thread lock? and 2.) i only have ''extreme hold'' loctite... i note it says to use permanent. Am i safe to use this?
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Apologies DG.... I remember you said eBay too :-[
Miraculously I have in my hand a fitting. I'd completely forgotten that I'd got a spare block with the canister fitting!!!!
Couple of Q's though.... firstly it wasn't in tight. It came out easily with grips. This is because there are no places inside for a hex or torx. So question 1.) will it be ok to wind in by hand with just the thread lock? and 2.) i only have ''extreme hold'' loctite... i note it says to use permanent. Am i safe to use this?
You're not planning on taking it back out at some time are you? ::) It'll be fine! :y :y
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Apologies DG.... I remember you said eBay too :-[
Miraculously I have in my hand a fitting. I'd completely forgotten that I'd got a spare block with the canister fitting!!!!
Couple of Q's though.... firstly it wasn't in tight. It came out easily with grips. This is because there are no places inside for a hex or torx. So question 1.) will it be ok to wind in by hand with just the thread lock? and 2.) i only have ''extreme hold'' loctite... i note it says to use permanent. Am i safe to use this?
It's a fickin piece of tubing threaded both ends, Webby. What's the worst that can happen? Put enough goo on it to hold it in and seal it. If it comes out the next time you change the filter, then remove it from the filter and repeat.
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Thanks girls. All sorted now.
There was a nice big split in the o ring at the back of the housing and it was as brittle as stemo’s bones 👍👍👍
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Job jobbed :y
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Glad that massive project is all sorted. What's next, air filter change? ;D
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🤣🤣🤣🤣 touché 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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How about a 0-60 thread :D
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Cheers dg ::)🤣🤣🤣
Got a few things to do on the omega. Cambelt in November. Need to get the geo done very soon. And got an annoying squeak from rear pads. Hey ho though another job off the list 👍
Oh and paint callipers at some point too
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Thanks girls. All sorted now.
There was a nice big split in the o ring at the back of the housing and it was as brittle as stemo’s bones 👍👍👍
So .... have you 'upgraded' to a spin on filter using a threaded nipple or have you just fixed the proper paper filter element housing? ::)
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Thanks girls. All sorted now.
There was a nice big split in the o ring at the back of the housing and it was as brittle as stemo’s bones 👍👍👍
So .... have you 'upgraded' to a spin on filter using a threaded nipple or have you just fixed the proper paper filter element housing? ::)
Yep upgraded mate 😃😃😃
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Thanks girls. All sorted now.
There was a nice big split in the o ring at the back of the housing and it was as brittle as stemo’s bones 👍👍👍
So .... have you 'upgraded' to a spin on filter using a threaded nipple or have you just fixed the proper paper filter element housing? ::)
Yep upgraded mate 😃😃😃
I can never quite understand the logic of the 'upgrade' and why the spin on filter is better .... the same debate surrounds the Smart's paper filter :-\
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probably less hassle to just replace the 5p O ring, filters are about the same price
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probably less hassle to just replace the 5p O ring, filters are about the same price
:y :y
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There’s no real difference. Though I do take tb’s comments about frank sensor on board. 👍
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*crank
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There’s no real difference. Though I do take tb’s comments about frank spensor on board. 👍
did TB compare you :-\ :D ;D
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🤣🤣🤣
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And the paper element is much, much, much less messy when changing.
Webby, don't bin your old canister, I'll happily put in my TBE spares tray ;)
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It’s saved and it’s yours mate 👍👍👍
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Top man :)
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I can never quite understand the logic of the 'upgrade' and why the spin on filter is better .... the same debate surrounds the Smart's paper filter :-\
A few reasons.....
1. The housing can leak.
2. The housing can come loose from the block before the cap comes off.
3. The cap and housing can break.
4. By the far the most important, You can't crush a spin on filter by fitting it incorrectly.
I've seen number 4 a few times. It's difficult to get the cap and filter in, in one go. So they stick the filter in the housing and screw the cap down hoping that some pixies will aligning the plastic clips with the cap and fight the effects of gravity on the filter. As the cap is screwed down it crushes the filter either allowing unfiltered oil through or restricting the flow.
Advantages of the paper ones..
1. Slightly cheaper.
2. If all is good, then it's not as messy doing the oil.
3. Can check the filter for metal without cutting the can open.
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I can never quite understand the logic of the 'upgrade' and why the spin on filter is better .... the same debate surrounds the Smart's paper filter :-\
A few reasons.....
1. The housing can leak.
2. The housing can come loose from the block before the cap comes off.
3. The cap and housing can break.
4. By the far the most important, You can't crush a spin on filter by fitting it incorrectly.
I've seen number 4 a few times. It's difficult to get the cap and filter in, in one go. So they stick the filter in the housing and screw the cap down hoping that some pixies will aligning the plastic clips with the cap and fight the effects of gravity on the filter. As the cap is screwed down it crushes the filter either allowing unfiltered oil through or restricting the flow.
Advantages of the paper ones..
1. Slightly cheaper.
2. If all is good, then it's not as messy doing the oil.
3. Can check the filter for metal without cutting the can open.
In 10 yrs of Omega ownership and a couple of oil changes a year I never experienced any of the highlighted ::)
The filter clips into the housing ..... as it does in my Smart and R Class (not done my ML yet but it's basically the same as the R Class)
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4. By the far the most important, You can't crush a spin on filter by fitting it incorrectly.
If a mechanic is too stupid to fit an Omega paper one incorrectly, then I doubt he/she could have the intelligence to spin on a tradional filter.
The cartridge clips into the cap, making it incredibly simple to remove and refit.
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Pretty sure deviator knows how you're meant to assemble them .. and his point was that plenty of other people don't..
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Pretty sure deviator knows how you're meant to assemble them .. and his point was that plenty of other people don't..
Thank you. I'm just feeding back the stuff I have seen when servicing many cars.
I certainly know with the Vectra's (2.6 as they have manicats), you can't get the cap and filter in the housing whilst they are clipped together. I can't remember the Omega as it's been a couple of years. You needed to place the paper filter into the housing, offer the cap up, clip it on whilst holding the element in the housing before screwing it down.
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My BMW is the same - when you try and pull the filter & cap out through the little service hatch, the filter will invariably become detached..
You can, however, just about wiggle them both back in again as a unit to avoid the filter getting crushed. Once you've cleaned all the oil off yourself, of course, that came out of the filter housing.. (there is a drain bung on the filter cap, actually, but it is almost always seized in..)
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My BMW is the same - when you try and pull the filter & cap out through the little service hatch, the filter will invariably become detached..
You can, however, just about wiggle them both back in again as a unit to avoid the filter getting crushed. Once you've cleaned all the oil off yourself, of course, that came out of the filter housing.. (there is a drain bung on the filter cap, actually, but it is almost always seized in..)
Didn't they put it somewhere sensible, like on the previous v8 ::)
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Well .. it's under the car, which is fairly sensible ;D there's even a hatch in the undertray to get at it.
And if they'd made the hatch about 1" bigger all around, it would actually come out through it without getting stuck and tipping all the oil out into the undertray ::) ;D
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My BMW is the same - when you try and pull the filter & cap out through the little service hatch, the filter will invariably become detached..
You can, however, just about wiggle them both back in again as a unit to avoid the filter getting crushed. Once you've cleaned all the oil off yourself, of course, that came out of the filter housing.. (there is a drain bung on the filter cap, actually, but it is almost always seized in..)
Didn't they put it somewhere sensible, like on the previous v8 ::)
The M50(and derivative) engines put it vertical at the front of the head casting. Vauxhall's 1.0l triple is the same, as are other engines. This arrangement makes sense as it's easy to remove the cap, change the filter without making any mess, and reassemble without any issues. Replacing a horizontal spin-on filter with a large, separate, poorly located casting to hold a paper filter is an underengineered solution to a problem that did not, and still does not, exist.
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The M50(and derivative) engines put it vertical at the front of the head casting. Vauxhall's 1.0l triple is the same, as are other engines. This arrangement makes sense as it's easy to remove the cap, change the filter without making any mess, and reassemble without any issues. Replacing a horizontal spin-on filter with a large, separate, poorly located casting to hold a paper filter is an underengineered solution to a problem that did not, and still does not, exist.
I loved that location on the M3 - made oil filter changes so easy. Of course, if you try and be all clever and 'pre fill' the filter with oil you, er.. well I would have just filled the sump, had I not also left the sump plug out at the time :-[ :-[ ;D
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The M50(and derivative) engines put it vertical at the front of the head casting. Vauxhall's 1.0l triple is the same, as are other engines. This arrangement makes sense as it's easy to remove the cap, change the filter without making any mess, and reassemble without any issues. Replacing a horizontal spin-on filter with a large, separate, poorly located casting to hold a paper filter is an underengineered solution to a problem that did not, and still does not, exist.
I loved that location on the M3 - made oil filter changes so easy. Of course, if you try and be all clever and 'pre fill' the filter with oil you, er.. well I would have just filled the sump, had I not also left the sump plug out at the time :-[ :-[ ;D
that's the disadvantage - ignoring operator error - the filter is a long way from the pickup and pump. I'd go for an external, crank driven pump next to the sump with a spin-on filter hanging off the pump housing. Like an XE Vauxhall :)