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Author Topic: Elite top end rebuild  (Read 2747 times)

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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #15 on: 20 March 2007, 17:56:38 »

Heres my theory

Cr=((Pi/4)xb2xs+Vc)/Vc

A bit of simple alegbra gives:

Vc=((Pi/4)xb2xs)/(Cr-1)

Which using b=8.16cm and s=7.96cm (I use cm which goes against the grain a bit because I want Vc in cc's)
gives Vc = 42cc

Plug this value back into the original equation using the 3.0 bore and stroke and you get the Cr....
« Last Edit: 20 March 2007, 17:57:26 by Mark »
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razzo

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #16 on: 20 March 2007, 19:33:02 »

Oh i get it now, i think :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
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tunnie

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #17 on: 20 March 2007, 22:11:42 »

Quote
Heres my theory

Cr=((Pi/4)xb2xs+Vc)/Vc

A bit of simple alegbra gives:

Vc=((Pi/4)xb2xs)/(Cr-1)

Which using b=8.16cm and s=7.96cm (I use cm which goes against the grain a bit because I want Vc in cc's)
gives Vc = 42cc

Plug this value back into the original equation using the 3.0 bore and stroke and you get the Cr....

riiiiiiiiiight then.  :-/

I am sticking to computers!  ;D
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sounds2k

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #18 on: 20 March 2007, 22:20:07 »

Quote
Heres my theory

Cr=((Pi/4)xb2xs+Vc)/Vc

A bit of simple alegbra gives:

Vc=((Pi/4)xb2xs)/(Cr-1)

Which using b=8.16cm and s=7.96cm (I use cm which goes against the grain a bit because I want Vc in cc's)
gives Vc = 42cc

Plug this value back into the original equation using the 3.0 bore and stroke and you get the Cr....
OK ... so s=stroke (79.6mm) and b=bore dia. (81.6mm) ... what's x???  :-/

seeing that brings back memories ... of headaches!!!  :D
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theolodian

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #19 on: 20 March 2007, 22:21:26 »

Quote
Quote
Heres my theory

Cr=((Pi/4)xb2xs+Vc)/Vc

A bit of simple alegbra gives:

Vc=((Pi/4)xb2xs)/(Cr-1)

Which using b=8.16cm and s=7.96cm (I use cm which goes against the grain a bit because I want Vc in cc's)
gives Vc = 42cc

Plug this value back into the original equation using the 3.0 bore and stroke and you get the Cr....
OK ... so s=stroke (79.6mm) and b=bore dia. (81.6mm) ... what's x???  :-/

seeing that brings back memories ... of headaches!!!  :D
multiply  ::) ;D
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #20 on: 21 March 2007, 14:02:05 »

Mark, in your wisdom, am I going to have any big problems putting the 2.5 heads on??
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #21 on: 21 March 2007, 15:18:55 »

It will give you 'head' aches.....unless you want to build a race engine!

Plus you would want to use the 3.0 sodium filled exhaust valves any way.....
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #22 on: 21 March 2007, 15:19:46 »

Quote
Quote
Heres my theory

Cr=((Pi/4)xb2xs+Vc)/Vc

A bit of simple alegbra gives:

Vc=((Pi/4)xb2xs)/(Cr-1)

Which using b=8.16cm and s=7.96cm (I use cm which goes against the grain a bit because I want Vc in cc's)
gives Vc = 42cc

Plug this value back into the original equation using the 3.0 bore and stroke and you get the Cr....

riiiiiiiiiight then.  :-/

I am sticking to computers!  ;D

Tunnie, the ONLY thing a computer can realy do is computations......yes lots of them.....but its still maths!
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #23 on: 21 March 2007, 15:36:34 »

What sort of headaches mark, serious ones, or niggles?

Happy to keep the car on 99RON....

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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #24 on: 21 March 2007, 15:37:12 »

also, what would it do to emissions....
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #25 on: 21 March 2007, 15:41:29 »

In theory, the engine would require a higher octane fuel plus, the knock sensor is likely to retard the timing further....all to prevent pre-ignition.

More NOx would be created as a result of the higher compression but, in theory you should get better efficiency (you might struggle to actualy achieve this!)

The V6 (2.5 and 3.0) have a pretty high compression ratio already......
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #26 on: 21 March 2007, 15:43:35 »

NOx isn't measured on MOT is it?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #27 on: 21 March 2007, 16:38:11 »

Quote
NOx isn't measured on MOT is it?

No, but your biggest problem will be knock. Yes, the engine has knock sensors so it can theoretically cope but who knows how much timing adjustment the ECU will allow before it throws in the towel and goes into limp-home? Or maybe it will just lob in as much correction as it allows and yet still hole a piston?

Compression ratios this high are extreme even in tuned engines, and those generally have more aggressive cams which result in less VE in the medium rev range where knock can be a killer - meaning that the effective CR is lower until they hit high revs. They also generally have forged pistons at this level so are much stronger and able to cope with a little knock.

I think trying this with an otherwise stock setup where you can't adjust fuel and spark is asking for trouble - unless it has been tried before with success. It's an easy upgrade (just like 3.0 cams in a 2.5) so if it worked, people would be admitting to have tried it  ;)
(just like they do with 3.0 cams in a 2.5). The silence speaks volumes, IMO!

It would be a real shame to go to all the trouble and expense of a top end rebuild only to find out you've got an engine that doesn't run.

Kevin

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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #28 on: 21 March 2007, 16:56:29 »

I agree with all of this logic... but... it's Sooooooo tempting to try it ;D
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theolodian

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Re: Elite top end rebuild
« Reply #29 on: 21 March 2007, 17:03:15 »

Quote
I agree with all of this logic... but... it's Sooooooo tempting to try it ;D
If you're sure that you will be running LPG most of the time then the arguement changes.
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