Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 30 December 2011, 14:47:55
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As many know, my focus is engine mechanicals - I am not hugely clued on suspension issues.
I have horrible tramlining on MV6. To the point I'm not enjoying the drive anymore.
Wishbones are new, decent items - only fitted 1000 miles ago. They were fitted correctly, torqued up as they should be with the weight on the wheels. Droplinks also replaced at the same time, along with new discs, pads, and a brake fluid change. Camber setting was preserved.
Steering idler is hunky dory, and MOT passed last month with no issues.
Tyres on the front - the nearside is a SC3, wearing perfectly. The offside is a Accelara Alpha, wearing slightly on the inner edge.
Problem was evident before WB change, and has not got better or worse after it.
Now I know for sure I need the Geo done, (due to tyre wear) and this is planned for when I get back from Turkey in a couple of weeks.
Could the Geo out, be causing tramlining?
My only other thought is that I need to get a full set of tyres, the same make.
That said - I'm not sure this could be down to tyres alone. When I went down my road this morning, I went over a bump, and it was almost like the left wheel moved, it was quite dis-concerting.
Wishbone bolts checked: tight. No pulling to either side under braking. Steering wheel central.
Bounce test on each corner - all OK, no excess jumping around visible.
That said - it drives more like an Elite than MV6 - a bit wallowy.
Now, I know the fact the Geo needs doing is a known issue, and should be undertaken, BUT what I don't want to do, is pay to get it set up, and then find I have to replace something, which requires setup to be done again!
;D
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Are the rear tyres a matching pair with approx the same tread depth?
Might be worth swapping them to the front temporarily just to prove that the different tyre types aren't adding to the equation.
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Could the Geo out, be causing tramlining?
It most definately can.
BUT what I don't want to do, is pay to get it set up, and then find I have to replace something, which requires setup to be done again!
I would expect whoever is doing the geometry to check the vehicle over first for wear & tear on any components that can affect the vehicle handling, because as you say it would be a complete waste of money for you if they didn't and an indication that they don't give a toss about anything other than emptying your wallet.
I'd still try VXL's suggestion of swapping the rubber around just in case it's a mismatch causing the issue, but my money would be on the geometry being out as the root cause.
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How wide are the tyres? I've got 235/45/17 on the front (MV6 wheels) and 245/45/17 on the back and even with the steering geometry bang on it still tramlines a fair bit. Is there any play in the steering rack? Mine seems to be fine then it'll just dart slightly in another direction but there's a small amount of play in the rack probably causing that.
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I replaced four Pirelli P7s which had plenty of tread left but tramlined really badly, put on Falkens which were much better, making sure tyre pressure is at 31psi works for me, tramlining is still there but not nearly as bad. Wheels in motion geometry set up also helped a bit, but I think it's just something the Omega does. :(
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I had really bad tramlining. I changed everything, wishbones, steering box, track rods, idler, geo, no improvement at all. Fitted new tyres on the front, complete success, no more tramlining. Previous tyres were Hancook, cannot remember which model though.
Alan
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mine is similarly inclined to wander aimlessly along like a lost sheep..... ever since i had new wishbones, drop links AAR buses and all round OE Shocks , 4 new tyres + rear springs)
you'd hope that lot would produce a nice tight stable mig...
but frankly it drove better beforehand with totally fubarred shocks and wishbones .....
WIM is on the jobs list
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mine is similarly inclined to wander aimlessly along like a lost sheep..... ever since i had new wishbones, drop links AAR buses and all round OE Shocks , 4 new tyres + rear springs)
GooseMan - where's your avatar when we need it? ;D
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Geometry will be well out after changing the wishbones no matter how much care is taken. The wishbones aren't constructed to tight enough tolerances meaning that even if the camber adjusters aren't moved, camber and toe will be out because the bottom ball joint has moved relative to where it was before.
Obviously check for play in the rest of the suspension before shelling out for a geometry setup, but correct geometry is the starting point, IMHO.
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Hi i had the same problem on my 2.2 omega.....i run 245/40/18........oz wheels had geo checked all ok.old tyres were a pair but down to 2.3mm.....so i change them for a new pair of continental sport contact 2.....spot on now drives like if on original 16 inch alloys.....and does not frighten the crap out of me while motoring at speed in a straight line....so job well done...
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My estate was tramlining, I fitted GM wishbones and after only a year the ball joints were totally shot. Just had the front struts changed for gas filled with new ball joints and drop links. A lot more confidence in the front now but it will still tramline on a lot of roads due to the amount of HGV traffic in this area even though you cant see their marks unless it has rained very heavily. keith B
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it will still tramline on a lot of roads due to the amount of HGV traffic in this area even though you cant see their marks unless it has rained very heavily.
That would explain why mine tramlines with the grooves in the roads around here from HGV`s ::)
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I would say that most of the tramlining would be caused by the different tyres on each side at the front,
Mine would tramline like crazy untill the same new tyres were fitted( P7,s) which helped a lot.
Issue was not resolved untill the next tyre change when Michelin pilot primacys went on and no more tramlining.
I Know certain members on here wont entertain Michelin tyres but they work well on my Estate.
Next would be to go down the bushes/ geo route but what ever is done wont be right untill the tyres are the same.
Good luck,
Gary.
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Wonder if its just a certain tyre size that causes tramlining ??? Needing to replace both my front tyres soon , they were worn slightly on the outside edges but nothing drastic . Anyone running winter tyres ?? Problems or not with these ???
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What ever tyres are fitted will continue to tl until the faults are rectified. They may not tl immediately, ESP if they are new *obviously* but if worn components and set up are not corrected then those new tyres will wear and degrade quickly into the same water bed feel of tram lining.
Tyres are key. Not just the brand, but also "the way the tyres are presented to the road" as a tyre man from Dunlop once refered to it. This phrase incorporates the car and it's parts and set up. BMW refer to "track control arms" instead of wishbones. This is a far more accurate description of the wishbones job. This obviously incorporates the bushes within the wishbone as well. All this is crucial to the "track" of the wheel and hence the tyre. If toe and camber settings are incorrect the tyre will wear oddly.
Once it's worn oddly you've immediately got tram lining issues that will be present until the tyre is replaced. Where by it will handle well as it's new with a flat symmetrical contact patch. How long before the tram lining returns depends purely on "how well the tyres are presented to the road" by the cars steering and suspension components and obviously the set up.
As always the route to straight line stability is the same. Fault find worn components, replace them and fit any upgrades if you desire, set up at/via wim. THEN fit new tyres.
If you have handling issues SORT THE COMPONENT WEAR AND SET UP FIRST. That way when the tyres are fitted they will handle as well as possible for as long as possible.
Get it wrong and tyres will wear excessively and prematurely waisting money and in extreme cases the car can very easily become bloody dangerous. Both in the way the car handles and potential blow outs from inner edge wear.
A quick word on upgrades.
Soft suspension wears tyres excessively. ESP if the driver likes to crack on. As do soft bushes generally.
Polly bushes give very positive results. Far more positive and accurate steering with better control of the wheels track.
Firmer or less soft suspension keeps the car more level and wallows less meaning less suspension movement meaning camber is deflected less. This means the front tyres maintain a flatter contact patch, which is good for handling.
The omega is prone to tram lining. But trust me, it can be made to handle very well. Provided the correct course is followed.
Hth.
Ps, avoid Falken tyres btw.
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Good read there and good advice :y
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Excellent advice here as previously stated.
Try swapping the front two wheels and tyres to make them turn in the opposite direction. In 160k miles, many sets of tyres and at least 3 sets of wishbones with subsequent trips to WIM; this has consistently fixed it for me for up to 5k miles, then swap them again.
I now only but non unidirectional and no assymetric tyres to facilitate this. Swap 'em and take it on a gentle test run on a well known road costs nothing to try it!
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i get tramlining too with my 17inch summer tyres. i have on those 235/45/17 good year excelence. with winter tyres no tramlining at all but those are 195/65/15 with continental ts810. i am starting to wonder is i need to do the gemetry every time i swap tyres in the autumn or in the spring
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winter tyres no tramlining at all
:o
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i get tramlining too with my 17inch summer tyres. i have on those 235/45/17 good year excelence. with winter tyres no tramlining at all but those are 195/65/15 with continental ts810. i am starting to wonder is i need to do the gemetry every time i swap tyres in the autumn or in the spring
narrower profile will help. But eventually tram lining will creep in.
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Mine is set up reasonably well, but started tramlining like a barsteward once the tyres got down to 2mm. >:( New tyres and all well :y
BUT I've also had a set of wishbones that only lasted a month(iirc) so I wouldn't rule them out. They destroyed two sets of tyres in a week, inspite of being set up correctly >:(
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Mine is set up reasonably well, but started tramlining like a barsteward once the tyres got down to 2mm. >:( New tyres and all well :y
BUT I've also had a set of wishbones that only lasted a month(iirc) so I wouldn't rule them out. They destroyed two sets of tyres in a week, inspite of being set up correctly >:(
what make wishbones failed Al?
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wishbones that only lasted a month
Jeez i wouldnt be happy with them id want me money back :(
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Mine is set up reasonably well, but started tramlining like a barsteward once the tyres got down to 2mm. >:( New tyres and all well :y
BUT I've also had a set of wishbones that only lasted a month(iirc) so I wouldn't rule them out. They destroyed two sets of tyres in a week, inspite of being set up correctly >:(
what make wishbones failed Al?
Delphi. >:( Cateramv6 bought some at around the same time and they went south in a similar amount of time. :-\ by the time he'd got back to the supplier and found Delphi had released a faulty batch mine were already in the bin ::) First line replacements lasted 20k, which seems to be reasonable for pattern ones :-\, their replacements were poly bushed, another 20k and only the droplinks have failed :-\ Guess who made them ::) GM next time me thinks ;)
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Me too . . .
My basic 2.0 GLS ('52 plate) Estate tramlines as well, and has done ever since I got the bitch.
I am considering re-bushing the front end, and found that I can get polys for the lower fronts, but there are apparently none to be had for the rears in the front lower suspension arm. This would mean that I'd have to fit a new set of standard ones for the rears (front lower suspension arm).
Could the Guru's advise on this ?
I'm presuming that a full geometry check would be in order if I did go ahead with this ?
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=97645.0 (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=97645.0)
Try this for size :y