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[Granger]

Hello everyone -- and apologies for making this first post a plea for help! Our Omega 2.2 (automatic) was first registered in September 2002 and purchased by us in December 2003. She's never let us down, and a village garage has looked after annual servicing.

A few months back, however, warning lights for either "engine electronics" (spanner & wheels icon) or "exhaust emission" (engine icon) remained on after start-up.  However: if we turned off the engine and re-started, the warning light would disappear.

The light (either the emission, or the electronics) didn't stay on every time; in fact, 9/10 we'd simply start her up and set off.

Recently though, the incidence has increased of one or other warning light remaining on after start-up. And it's taken three or four re-starts to get the darned things to switch off.  (The lights have never come on when we're driving, nor have they ever flashed during driving, either. If that happened, we'd ring the RAC straight off.)

Today though, we've just been to our local Tesco's (aaargh) and when we set off home again, the "exhaust emission" light remained on after start-up and, worse, the whole car felt really, really juddery. We drove home very slowly but when we parked in the garage, the Omega nearly rammed the back wall -- instead of just inching along in Drive, without using the accelerator, she fairly lurched in. She feels as though she's on the verge of the engine stalling, and yet the revs are steady. . .

Sadly, neither my wife nor I are mechanical geniuses. Nor geniuses of any kind. Though we've both been driving over 40 years, we're not auto experts. So now we're both worried as to what can have gone wrong with the Omega -- we've had a look through the various help files and posts on here but (oh what a confession) we're wholly incapable of doing our own maintenance, and so we don't fully understand much of the tecchie stuff.

Our Vauxhall Main Dealer is less than a mile from our front door, so we're going to drive our Omega round there. It's just that before doing so, we wondered if anyone here could offer a likely diagnosis of the problem? At least we'd have some idea of what the main dealer may be talking about. . . and charging for!

Again, apologies for a first post that's seeking help rather than contributing anything positive to what is an excellent forum.!

[Entwood]

First and most important ... update your profile with your location !!!

You really need your codes read .. and I don't think you can paperclip the 2.2 .. so we need to know if you are close to anyone with a code reader ... without that information little can be done that is not pure guesswork..

[tunnie]

no you can't paperclip the 2.2's so we need to know where you are!

Does the car start ok? does it take lots of cranking?

Sounds like cam sensor or crank sensor

[Granger]

Whoops! Total idiocy here, but have updated profile. . .

Have just rung my wife at her office  -- she ues the Omega more than me -- re Tunnie' question. She says the Omega has been 'reluctant' to start recently when coming home from work. But she thought it was the weather??

[Craig_R]

no you can't paperclip the 2.2's so we need to know where you are!

Does the car start ok? does it take lots of cranking?

Sounds like cam sensor or crank sensor

Yep What tunnie Said But Since Yours is being hard to start i would say its your Crank Sensor.

You Need the Codes Really but VX will charge you 80 quid just to read your codes, So If i were you i would start with the Crank Sensor its about 35 Quid from VX and the cam sensor is 47 quid.

You can get a poor mans Tech2 Code reader off ebay for around 30 quid

Craig

[Granger]

Thanks Sir Craig! Please excuse our total ignorance but. . . can we just get the main dealer to check out the crank sensor, or cam sensor, without having this £business of code reading?

Or, er, are we asking too much here. Before Vauxhall starts asking too much there.

I have this irrational fear we'll be told the Omega needs everything from  cranks and wotsits to a new exhaust system. Gawd, wot a start to 2008 though. . .

 

[3.2omegaestate]

You are obviously happy with your local independent garage. As already said get a code reader from ebay or even speak to your independent garage, they may have one already and determine what the error codes are. Post them back on here if you need further help in identifiying what they mean, then once identified go to your independent and get them to fix the issues. You certainly wont be paying main dealer labour charges that way, which will reduce the size of the repair bill considerably

[tunnie]

if the engine does not catch straight away as it should, and is taking a few seconds to start i would say crank or cam sensor still.

You can do the cam sensor at home its very easy....

[Granger]

Hi again everyone -- and many thanks for all the help and advice given. Position is, I've been round to the main dealer with the Omega and asked if it might be a sensor problem? They said they couldn't diagnose without "checking the codes" -- but as they're rushed off their feet today, could I either wait for half an hour (or so) or come back tomorrow.

I think it was good of them to offer but unfortunately I've had experience of half-hour-or-so garage waits before and couldn't manage it this afternoon due to a pre-existing commitment -- so drove back home and rang our usual garage (small, non-franchised, family owned, absolute delight) and have arranged to take the Omega in tomorrow morning.

Oh: they asked for a description of symptoms over the phone and instantly said the same as craig and tunnie. I don't know if they have a code reader or not but will ask them tomorrow -- and take 3.2oestate's advice about eBay if they haven't. Over the past 10 years though they've become deservedly popular, looking after Mercs and BMWs as well as our 'umble Omega, so I imagine they may well have invested in diagnostic wotjamacallits.

(PS: tunnie, your faith in our abilities re "You can do the cam sensor at home its very easy. . ." is touching. But sadly, utterly misplaced.  

Sincere thanks to everyone: the guidance is much appreciated and has certainly helped minimise anxiety -- our Omega is at 53k still a beauty and this is the first time anything, of any kind, has ever gone wrong with her.

[Bandit127]

Hi Granger.

You have my sympathy with your problems. The trouble with cars these days is their complexity. Give me an old Cortina any day... Have to say that the engine bay of my 'mega still fills me with dread and I have stripped and rebuilt a few engines in my time. The guys and guides on here make it easier - they're a great crew and a great help.

Anyway, I would like to add a bit of advice. That is - please stick with it on this forum. Sadly, some mechanics will call out an ECU or catalytic converter at a cost of many hundreds of pounds because their expertise is limited and they don't know any better. From reading these forums it is much more likely that a sensor costing tens of pounds is at the root a problem, rather than an ECU or catalytic converter. There are some serious experts on here and they are very helpful (and patient).

Keep us posted and I wish you the best of luck sorting your problem out. I am sure we all do.

Regards, Jim

[Craig_R]

What Tunnie Said About the Cam Sensor Is true I did not have a clue how to do anything with my car till I bit the bullet and had ago.

I did my Cam sensor on Christmas Eve Morning before driving 300 miles and replaced it in under 15 mins its really really easy.

Three 10mm bolts on the cam cover undo and take off the cam cover watch the rubber where the bolts go through dont fall off like mine did

And then between the cams there is one 8 or 6 mm Torx bolt undo slip out the cam sensor and replace put back together in reverce.

Here Is the Torx bolt between the cam at the bottom of the cams

[stu412t]

hi i have had the same problems and after changing mass air flow meter all is good cost £77

[shyboy]

Hi again everyone -- and many thanks for all the help and advice given. Position is, I've been round to the main dealer with the Omega and asked if it might be a sensor problem? They said they couldn't diagnose without "checking the codes" -- but as they're rushed off their feet today, could I either wait for half an hour (or so) or come back tomorrow.

I think it was good of them to offer but unfortunately I've had experience of half-hour-or-so garage waits before and couldn't manage it this afternoon due to a pre-existing commitment -- so drove back home and rang our usual garage (small, non-franchised, family owned, absolute delight) and have arranged to take the Omega in tomorrow morning.

Oh: they asked for a description of symptoms over the phone and instantly said the same as craig and tunnie. I don't know if they have a code reader or not but will ask them tomorrow -- and take 3.2oestate's advice about eBay if they haven't. Over the past 10 years though they've become deservedly popular, looking after Mercs and BMWs as well as our 'umble Omega, so I imagine they may well have invested in diagnostic wotjamacallits.

(PS: tunnie, your faith in our abilities re "You can do the cam sensor at home its very easy. . ." is touching. But sadly, utterly misplaced.  
Sincere thanks to everyone: the guidance is much appreciated and has certainly helped minimise anxiety -- our Omega is at 53k still a beauty and this is the first time anything, of any kind, has ever gone wrong with her.

Hi Granger,
We all know where you're coming from but as Sir CraigR says--- don't despair. Unless you have absolutely no interest at all in learning about your car most maintenance skills can be easily acquired through patient reading and asking questions on this forum. When I started, I didn't know what a torx or a hex bolt was, but am now quite happy taking parts off and out of my 2.6l.
The knowledge and expertise on this Forum can save you a fortune, but more importantly perhaps, let you know when some smart a--e is trying to blind you with science with a vew to ripping you off.

[Golfbuddy]

To be honest with you Granger, your 53,000 mile, 2002 Omega CDX has probably seen better days and is now not worth much at all.

If it's of interest, I'll take it off your hands for less than you'd have to pay the scrap dealer.  


Seriously, welcome to the best forum on the web. I hope you get it fixed and that, at worst, you can go to the garage with more knowledge than before you came on here.  

[Auto Addict]

On reading this thread, I would definitely say it's the cam sensor.

[Marks DTM Calib]

These symptoms do normlay sudgest cam sensor but....when connected to the diag kit there are some tests which will help to pin point the cause.

I.e. if the gearbox is reporting CAN bus errors as well and the ECU may also have these logged then it strongly sudgests cam sensor which are knwo to fail.

In addition, its worth actuating the EGR valve and/or the throttle whilst monitoring air flow etc to prove the state of the MAF sensor.

The more common cause of faults on these is the cam sensor..........but you shoudl never just change things as in reality you are adding in more unknows with un-proven sensors (despite being new) and by disturbing more items.

[Granger]

Oh, wow. What can I say?

SINCERE THANKS to everyone here for the way you've helped out this particular stumbling, fumbling newbie with words of advice and encouragement -- it's like being lost in the dark, and then a group of folks show up with torches. Brilliant.  

I certainly felt guilty (still do) about arriving here as a newbie (in every sense) with nothing to contribute other than a sort of begging letter, but hopefully I'll have something useful to offer in future, even if it's only my, er, resignation.

In the meantime though I (and Mrs Boss) will stick with OOF so as to read, learn, and inwardly digest. And then completely rebuild our Omega between breakfast and lunch. Um; one day.

For now though, the position is -- and, again, thanks from both of us to everyone here for "clueing" us in to what might or might not be happening -- the Omega limped the four miles from home to the garage this morning, with the accelerator trembling underfoot and vibrations even in the steering wheel.

The "exhaust emission" light was on all the time, though the garage says no, that isn't signifying the need for a new exhaust. What the "scanning" and sundry other inspections produced by way of results are:

1) Crankshaft sensor. Replacement cost: £59 plus fitting.

But there's also, sadly, a 2):

New ignition coil.

Replacement cost: £125 at best (non Vauxhall sourced) £180 at worst (if this part has to be obtained from  the Vauxhall dealer).

Our garage "team" say the ignition coil fault is actually more serious than the crankshaft sensor failure -- it's also a fairly time consuming job to sort out. They're now chasing around to find an "after market"(?) ignition coil at the lower rate from their own contacts, and hope to have it in stock on Monday.

Ah well. Heigh ho. We've given the go-ahead because really, we need the Omega early next week to visit a sick relative. Neither Mrs Boss nor I have the foggiest idea what an ignition coil is but if it didn't need fixing then from past experience, we know our garage wouldn't be telling us that it does -- they're a super bunch of folks (like here, really!)

Many thanks again, then, to everyone here -- oh, and to Craig, special thanks for the photograph! Obviously, we're saving this thread and all the advice given, but the image is especially helpful. (Stu: garage actually said they had 'wondered' about this meter you referred to, but on detailed examination, no, it's OK.)

Finally, Jim: though nothing will shake our loyalty to this model, Mrs Boss and I do, on reflection, seem to have led a most uncomplicated life. . .

. . . Back when she was driving her Austin A40 Farina. And I had my Ford Anglia 105E, albeit that to start it, you had to crawl underneath and keep hitting the starter motor with a hammer.

But I guess it's what passed for Engine Management, long ago and far away. . .  

[Craig_R]

Now I might Be Wrong here With the 2.2 and having an ignition coil over a dissy pack on the 2.0 but if the Dissy pack on a 2.0 fails it would not put your EML on it would just misfire, But might be different to the 2.2.

I would recommend you buy a poor mans tech two for reading codes in the future well worth having.

Dont worry about asking for help being a newbie as this is one of the only ways people find the site once they have a problem.

Craig

[Marks DTM Calib]

Ignition module is about a 15 minute job to change......they can be got from vauxhall part number 9195819 and costs £104 + VAT retail and £78 + VAT trade club.

Alternatively they can be bought here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-2-2-Omega-1994-03-Coil-Pack-DIS-Unit_W0QQitemZ330199613467QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118

But, before they change it they should remove it and check for oil or water in the plug wells!

So again....not the best bit of diag work and god knows where they are getting the prices from!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Now I might Be Wrong here With the 2.2 and having an ignition coil over a dissy pack on the 2.0 but if the Dissy pack on a 2.0 fails it would not put your EML on it would just misfire, But might be different to the 2.2.

I would recommend you buy a poor mans tech two for reading codes in the future well worth having.

Dont worry about asking for help being a newbie as this is one of the only ways people find the site once they have a problem.

Craig

As a very general rule, coil per plug setups can detect miss fires......waisted spark DIS setups cant.

[Granger]

Thanks for the reassurance, Craig!

Marks: it's really good of you to go to so much trouble -- I'll make a diplomatic approach to our garage tomorrow, and raise the question of the eBay seller (sincere thanks for that link: that particular seller certainly looks like a superb resource.)

All best & thanks again!

[arthill]

Hi Granger

 Am I right in assuming that your garage has a code reader, or is his diagnosis guesswork, if latter can be an expensive exercise. rather than replace both parts together replace one and have codes read again, sometimes one fault can trigger another  which may disapear again after first is dealt with.

John

[Granger]

Hi Granger

 Am I right in assuming that your garage has a code reader,
John

Morning John -- yup, the garage does have a card reader, apparently they acquired it when they took on the ervicing of the Omega when the manufacturer warranty period ran out. I'm not sure what was flagged up in the scanning process (as is abundantly obvious, I'm a complete ignoramus here!) but the garage said they had hoped to "get away" with fixing just a sensor problem. But it also turned out that the ignition was at fault, too.

I'm going to pop in on Monday morning with a copy of the eBay item that Marks so kindly provided. I do wish I'd found OOF a lot sooner and all the helpful people here. . .

[alexandjen]

Hi Granger
I assume the garage has code read your Omega?
Get them to give you the fault codes so you can post them on the forum, as you will then get a much better diagnosis of the problem.
John

[alanfp]

Hi

I'm not nearly as experienced as the other guys here, but my two pennorth........

As a newbie, I wouldn't expect you to come here offering advice to others - after all, you're a newbie! That's what it means, so don't feel guilty.  If you continue to use the forum, there WILL be times in the future when you can offer advice - e.g. find a good local garage that treats you well, and maintain a good relationship with them. Oh yeah, you've contributed that already ...... which brings me to my 2nd point, which is that in my humble opinion (IMHO) I would try to be very diplomatic about querying your garage's charges.  You don't want to ruin a relationship and end up having to rely on your Vaux dealer for evermore over the sake of £70.  Your garage may well rely on a bit of mark-up to keep their labour charges down - no-one likes being ripped off, but we've all got to make a living.  

If you're not convinced that the ign coil does need doing, you may be able to say to them - pl. just do the sensor first, and we'll see if that cures it. If not, can I come back later in the week do get the coil sorted out.  Also, if the garage ISN'T making money from marking up parts, they might be quite happy for you to provide the part yourself.

Last point - assuming you are in a position to afford the repairs, consider the cost of those repairs a) against what you paid for the car when you bought it and b) divide it by the number of months that you've owned the car trouble free up to now - it won't feel so bad if you do that.  Hope you'll soon be back to enjoying the comfort and security that you're used to.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Granger

Before they lay another spanner on the engine and change any sensors, get them to remove the coil pack and check for water.

We have seen a few 2.2's where water seeps around the scuttle and lands on the engine which fills the plug wells up.

To fix its simply a case of dry it all out and seal the scuttle cover.

I would NOT want them to follow the standard garage approach of willy nilly part swapping (which they appaer to be considering) as

a) Its costly
b) It adds more unknowns because despite the sensors being new, you dont know that they work.

[Granger]

Desparate rush, so apologies for brevity!

1) alexandjen: I'll *try* diplomatically. . . !

2) alan: you've hit the nail on the head. Really. A relationship with a garage is (and I guess, must be) a little like a relationship with your doctor. You have to trust -- well, you do when you're like us, lambs that are so obviously ready for slaughter -- and until it's inarguably evident that the trust has been breached, well. . .

Our local garage has looked after the Omega for over three years and nothing's ever been too much trouble. (For example, when it was a case of replacing the Michelins on the front wheels, the price they charged for sourcing and fitting the tyres was way, way less than even the prices I'd found on the Internet -- never mind the 'standard' pricing at ATS etc.)

They charge us £80 a year for the annual service and £40-odd for the MoT, and when we lived nearer to them -- we've moved away from the village now -- the receptionist used to down tools, as it were, and pop me into her car and drive me home. Then she'd come and pick me up when the Omega was ready. No extra charge.

Another recent tale: our son was recently stopped by the police (!) on a really miserable winter afternoon when he thought he had his headlamps on dipped beam, but it turned out, only one was working. (He has an old Mondeo). The police issued him with a notice to get it fixed in seven days or else. Fair enough. He's never been in trouble with the police before so was in a panic. We were away so knew nothing about it. He rang the garage, explained what happened, and they said come round now, we'll fit you in. (And truly, they're rushed off their feet all the time.) They broke off from what they were doing and fixed the problem there and then. They stamped the back of the police 'certificate' to say they'd done it. And they charged him £5 for everything, including labour. We're thinking, that's a lot less than the Ford dealer would've charged. And he'd maybe have had to wait a week until they had a slot anyway. . .

I'll certainly take your advice about the try-and-see. But as you and others here so obviously appreciate (thank Gawd!) diplomacy is necessary when people like us are involved. As to costs, aargh, yes, we could well do without this, though we still think our Omega was actually a good buy way back when -- ex-Vauxhall, 15 months old, 14k on the clock and we paid £10,000 for her at a 'car supermarket'. And we got two grand in PX for our old Corolla, which was only £250 less than the Toyota dealer was offering us against a six month old Avensis -- thank Heavenes, we didn't buy it!

I think what I'm trying to say, at risk of taking up too much space and too many people's time here, is that for newbies / numpties like us, we kind of have to trust where we can't see. And as noted, the service we've had over the years has been superb (even with this latest incident, where our local main dealer advised that it would be at least a week before they could take the Omega in, should we want them to do the work, whereas 'our' garage said, your Omega needs sorting out now, it really isn't driveable, so we'll fit you in immediately, don't worry.)

3) Marks:  yes, I will. I know I'll get some funny looks but hey, why not -- and, again, sincere thanks for your help (and everyone else here!)

[Craig_R]

Granger i trusted My Mechanic and always thought i was getting a bargain till I joined the forum, One time i remember i need my water pump replacing an he said £150 including everything which i thought Great, then i found Out From here the Pump is 30 odd quid and its really really easy to replace, so I paid the guy about a 100 quid to fit it and was gutted to find out how easy i could of done the job, It might of taken me 2 hours but still would of saved a 100 pounds now i know it would take me 30mins tops to change one so i paid this guy around 200 pounds an hour labor

[Auto Addict]

Granger

Before they lay another spanner on the engine and change any sensors, get them to remove the coil pack and check for water.

We have seen a few 2.2's where water seeps around the scuttle and lands on the engine which fills the plug wells up.

To fix its simply a case of dry it all out and seal the scuttle cover.

I would NOT want them to follow the standard garage approach of willy nilly part swapping (which they appaer to be considering) as

a) Its costly
b) It adds more unknowns because despite the sensors being new, you dont know that they work.

Mark and I discussed this in detail yesterday.

I have experienced water in the plug wells on mine, this was caused by the lower windscreen rubber not being sealed properly, which alows water to drip onto the Ecostrip on top of the engine, then leak into the plug wells.

Small amounts tend to dry out when the engine is hot, but a heavy rainfall can soon fill up the plug wells.

Get them to check if there is signs of rust in the plug wells.

To reseal the lower windscreen rubber is half an hours job at the most.

[ians]

Granger

Before they lay another spanner on the engine and change any sensors, get them to remove the coil pack and check for water.

We have seen a few 2.2's where water seeps around the scuttle and lands on the engine which fills the plug wells up.

To fix its simply a case of dry it all out and seal the scuttle cover.

I would NOT want them to follow the standard garage approach of willy nilly part swapping (which they appaer to be considering) as

a) Its costly
b) It adds more unknowns because despite the sensors being new, you dont know that they work.

Mark and I discussed this in detail yesterday.

I have experienced water in the plug wells on mine, this was caused by the lower windscreen rubber not being sealed properly, which alows water to drip onto the Ecostrip on top of the engine, then leak into the plug wells.

Small amounts tend to dry out when the engine is hot, but a heavy rainfall can soon fill up the plug wells.

Get them to check if there is signs of rust in the plug wells.

To reseal the lower windscreen rubber is half an hours job at the most.

I have a problem with rain water running through the wiper spindle hole in the scuttle and dripping onto the cam cover.   I suspect this must be very common.  

I've tried the vaseline trick (ooh err) but no joy.  Intend to try proper seallant next when i get around to it.