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[maracus]

This may be relevant; I have done my wheel alignment before with a piece of string and a ruler...

In a nutshell, A flat level surface, rock the car back and forth a few times to settle the geometry, finishing on a "forward" roll, then pull taught a length of string from the back edge of the rear wheel (6 or 9 o clock respectively) to the front of the front wheel (opposite 9 or 6 position respectively) and measure the distance from the back of the front wheel to the straight edge line you've created by pulling the string tight, and adjusting so that the measurement is as specified..

When I've done this previously to one of my cars, I tell you what, it drove better then than ever before, dispite having it previously tracked professionally with Lazer equipment. But my thing is, am I mad and just got damn lucky, or is there actual method in that madness??

[05omegav6]

Damn lucky if that were an Omega

[maracus]

^ it was a cavalier. Funnily enough I did try on one of my migs but abandoned it as I wasn't happy with how it was working out. The rubbers stuck out too far for an accurate consistency.

[chrisgixer]

That implies there's a set measurement available from a position on the front wheel to a position on the rear. I'd be surprised if a manufacturer would give a figure other than the wheel base. And knowing how much play there is in the subframe positioning it would never be accurate enough.

However, if replicating a setting from a given point, then replicating that measurement after, say, a track rod change, then that would be a million times better than simply counting threads from the old track rod.

But remember the steering pivots around the steering ball joint on the wishbone. So movement for and aft through natural steering movement is minimal the nearer straight ahead the front wheels are.
 Where as the angle of the wheel is more pronounced. Which is why I used the method described in the guides for setting toe.
 But it's totally dependent on replicating the pre existing setting by lining up the outer edge of the front wheel with a point on the rear. Either by eye, or with a straight edge.

I would never ever present that/either as a replacement for proper set up though. Merely to save your tyres on the journey to Wim.

[Webby the Bear]

That's my understanding.... counting threads is simply a way of getting the toe angle close enough to be able to drive it to the alignment shop after say a rack replacement for example  its not there to call it done..... although I suspect some folk do.

a question on what you mentioned chris if you dnt mind.... and that's re the thrust angle. mine's 1 minute away from optimum (i.e. 0 degrees). is 1 minute big enough margin to cause the crabbing you mentioned? ive personally had none of that and my tyres have even wear so im thinking not. but obviously id like to get it as close to perfect as poss. 

[chrisgixer]

Correction.

This was in relation to off centre steering wheel. Not a pull.

The front was spot on, but the rear thrust angle/toe was off centre causing a slight crab, as the rear was steering out sideways. So had to be corrected by the driver at the steering wheel.

Sorry Webby, I steered you wrong there.

[Webby the Bear]

Correction.

This was in relation to off centre steering wheel. Not a pull.

The front was spot on, but the rear thrust angle/toe was off centre causing a slight crab, as the rear was steering out sideways. So had to be corrected by the driver at the steering wheel.

Sorry Webby, I steered you wrong there.

haha no worries mate. was this your car youre talking about or someone elses? out of interest

[chrisgixer]

Correction.

This was in relation to off centre steering wheel. Not a pull.

The front was spot on, but the rear thrust angle/toe was off centre causing a slight crab, as the rear was steering out sideways. So had to be corrected by the driver at the steering wheel.

Sorry Webby, I steered you wrong there.

haha no worries mate. was this your car youre talking about or someone elses? out of interest

Yep. Mine. Took several attempts to sort out. But we got there.

[Webby the Bear]

 

So with my thrust angle out of spec by one minute. . . Is this acceptable. As said I've had none of rear end crabbing. . . Just the front end feels loose where the wishbone bushes are destroyed

[chrisgixer]

So with my thrust angle out of spec by one minute. . . Is this acceptable. As said I've had none of rear end crabbing. . . Just the front end feels loose where the wishbone bushes are destroyed

Pointless conversation Webby. Fix the car, first.

But if the car drives straight... And the steering wheel is level, don't worry. If not obviously that's the first thing to adjust.

....with experience, you wouldn't let a car off the ramp with settings like that. Tbh.

[Webby the Bear]

Oh of course. . .i plan to get the car WiMd as soon as I've got the suspension work done. I was merely wondering out loud if this would create problems on the assumption all suspension was in good nick 

[chrisgixer]

Oh of course. . .i plan to get the car WiMd as soon as I've got the suspension work done. I was merely wondering out loud if this would create problems on the assumption all suspension was in good nick 

You'd have to drive it to tell. Obviously the idea is to get the setting correct first, and eliminate as many possible faults as you can.

My guess would be that the steering wheel would not be level with the rear thrust angle 1 degree off. But Tony would know a lot more with his experience, for sure.

[Webby the Bear]

Cheers Chris.as said just wondering. It's only one minute out, not a whole degree so thinking it shouldn't be too bad . ..but obviously it will be corrected at sim when I take it 

[TheBoy]

Obviously the idea is to get the setting correct first, and eliminate as many possible faults as you can.

Whilst correct, for clarity, Eliminate all related faults, then get the setting correct (before moving on to next setting.

If you come across an unknown fault related to steering suspension, start again from scratch.

But Tony would know a lot more with his experience, for sure.

Indeed. But we can work together to let WIM, or any other outfit, know in what areas our cars seem very sensitive to, such as rear toe and front camber...

...I'm sure wheels-inmotion would welcome any feedback we can give them in this regard, as our site covers a single model of a single marque. I see OOF and WIM as a two way thing for collaboration

[chrisgixer]

Keeping the road from feeding back through the steering is my main bug bear ATM.

Somehow, and I don't know how this happened, but fitting the front wheels on the opposite side has resulted in pulling and oddness due to uneven wear. Suspect costco cocked that up, when I took it back for a rebalance, after I praised them from being so careful fitting.
Ruined the profile of the front tyres going by the steering. I can't find any other faults, bushes are new. No play, bolts are tight only minor fault us about 0.25mm of play in a wheel baring.
It feels like something approaching your TT when they fell off a cliff/you said something was "broken". Which turned out to be tyres. Grip level is fine, it's just the pulling on imperfections. Doesn't show up on a motorway at all, which is the only blessing.

If it was possible, I get the urge to put the tyre in a lathe and re machine them back to standard profile so it behaves.