Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Migalot on 09 March 2023, 17:27:19
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The other day I noticed this pipe is completely kinked. I presume it perfoms a necessary function, but what is it and what does it do (the clear/white vertical one)?
Power brake associated, it seems.
(https://i.ibb.co/BGqmSsF/brake-pipe.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cwDP7TV)
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One way valve so you don't immediately lose the vacuum in the brake booster should the engine unexpectedly stop whilst driving.
The Ts supply vacuum to the heater controls and possibly the multirams :y
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One way valve so you don't immediately lose the vacuum in the brake booster should the engine unexpectedly stop whilst driving.
The Ts supply vacuum to the heater controls and possibly the multirams :y
Thanks Doc. :y
Obviously needs replacing. I would guess any pipe of a similar diameter would do? ???
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You might get away with shortening that clear hose... It's already been replaced once as it should be similar to the black rubber ones.
Regardless, be bloody gentle with it as the spigot on the one way valve has a nasty habit of snapping off and it's not quite as simple as replacing it. ;)
With that in mind, you may wish to trim it at the T end...
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Pretty sure it should be a rubber elbow the same os the one beside it. I may have a spare or two in the shed. Will try and have a look in the next couple of days, and if I have one can send it to you. :y
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Pretty sure it should be a rubber elbow the same os the one beside it. I may have a spare or two in the shed. Will try and have a look in the next couple of days, and if I have one can send it to you. :y
Indeed it should :y
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As far as Im aware its a Hard ABS Plastic Heat Resistant Pipe with a One Way Valve, the idea being it doesn't collapse like a Rubber Pipe could do under a high vacuum pressure. so needs to be replaced like for like rather than any old rubber pipe. ;)
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As far as Im aware its a Hard ABS Plastic Heat Resistant Pipe with a One Way Valve, the idea being it doesn't collapse like a Rubber Pipe could do under a high vacuum pressure. so needs to be replaced like for like rather than any old rubber pipe. ;)
Talking about swapping out the clear hose from the valve to the vac T ;)
That would originally have been black rubber. :y
The main vac pipe from the plenum to booster is indeed a different animal and is heated, joined and crimped to the fittings. I seem to recall it being a plastic coated metal pipe. In theory you can buy all the parts and make a new one, but it's a bear to do.
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Pretty sure it should be a rubber elbow the same os the one beside it. I may have a spare or two in the shed. Will try and have a look in the next couple of days, and if I have one can send it to you. :y
That would be great, Albs. Email me if you find one. :y
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As far as Im aware its a Hard ABS Plastic Heat Resistant Pipe with a One Way Valve, the idea being it doesn't collapse like a Rubber Pipe could do under a high vacuum pressure. so needs to be replaced like for like rather than any old rubber pipe. ;)
Talking about swapping out the clear hose from the valve to the vac T ;)
That would originally have been black rubber. :y
The main vac pipe from the plenum to booster is indeed a different animal and is heated, joined and crimped to the fittings. I seem to recall it being a plastic coated metal pipe. In theory you can buy all the parts and make a new one, but it's a bear to do.
Fair do"s ;)
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As far as Im aware its a Hard ABS Plastic Heat Resistant Pipe with a One Way Valve, the idea being it doesn't collapse like a Rubber Pipe could do under a high vacuum pressure. so needs to be replaced like for like rather than any old rubber pipe. ;)
Talking about swapping out the clear hose from the valve to the vac T ;)
That would originally have been black rubber. :y
The main vac pipe from the plenum to booster is indeed a different animal and is heated, joined and crimped to the fittings. I seem to recall it being a plastic coated metal pipe. In theory you can buy all the parts and make a new one, but it's a bear to do.
No metal, just hard plastic. Tends to rub on the A/C pipe if someone has had the plenum off and doesn't put the spacer clip back in place.
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I remember it being a total pig to reassemble following said rubbing, and that the tubing is/was available from VX ;)
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I suspect that hasn't been plumbed right. There should be 2 separate vacuum feeds from that point. One to the heater controls reservoir and one to the multiram one.
I think one has failed and the two haven just been bridged there with an elbow to stop it leaking. It may even be bypassing the one-way valve, looking at it, which would be potentially unsafe.
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I suspect that hasn't been plumbed right. There should be 2 separate vacuum feeds from that point. One to the heater controls reservoir and one to the multiram one.
I think one has failed and the two haven just been bridged there with an elbow to stop it leaking. It may even be bypassing the one-way valve, looking at it, which would be potentially unsafe.
That's weird. I can't recall any work on the car in that area and I've had it for the best part of 14 years.
Can someone take a photo of what it should look like and post here?
TIA
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Someone probably lost the rubber hose in question during an HBV change ;)
Unless it was you, it is unlikely that it would have ever been mentioned ;)
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I remember it being a total pig to reassemble following said rubbing, and that the tubing is/was available from VX ;)
You can also buy hard rubber vacuum hose which does the same job and is easier to use.
Rubbed through vacuum lines is a common repair on Audis(for example) who would use them to work the light bulbs if that was possible in anyway.
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Where does the small vacuum hose in the background by the brake lines go? Is it loose?
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The horizontal one? It comes from the white T by way of the rubber tube. What looks to be a spigot left of the OWV is actually one and the same line as the horizontal one.
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The horizontal one? It comes from the white T by way of the rubber tube. What looks to be a spigot left of the OWV is actually one and the same line as the horizontal one.
Yes, looking at it more closely I see what you mean. Might just need the clear section replacing with something more robust, then?
I'm struggling to remember how it's all supposed to go together and haven't got an Omega to go and look at. ;D
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Some cars had a OWV with two spigots, which saves the T... although I don't recall seeing a facelift V6 with one. :-\
To answer Migalots point about any work that would disturb it, HBV/coil/dis pack replacement/plug changes/camcover are all pretty basic Omega servicing items that would see that pipe at least disconnected :y
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Here's how it should be plumbed up, although I've modified the routing on this car to make it simpler. Also avoids having to run the 2 pipes across the bulkhead and clutter up the already busy area over the cam covers. I hope this helps :)
(https://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/omega_vacuumcontrolpipe-01.jpg)
(https://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/omega_vacuumcontrolpipe-02.jpg)
(https://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/omega_vacuumcontrolpipe-03.jpg)
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That confirms the difference between the vac lines on the 2.5/3.0 and the later 2.6/3.2 :y
The OWV with two spigots is clearly visible on the earlier set up :y
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Thanks Tick Tock. Great pics. :y
To avoid confusion, do you have a 2.5 V6? With mine being a 2.6, I presume that it will be a bit different by the bulkhead (as per Doc Gollum's post)? ???
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Yes, sorry I should have said it's a 2.5, but there's not a great deal of difference.
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If were sure it just needs a rubber elbow piece the same as the one next to it, I have a few spares, so will send one off to Migalot.
Actually, I have to put the bins out shortly, so will check my own car while Im out there. :)
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Mine looks slightly different, but I think it should be a straight rubber pipe. I have a spare one of those too, so will send both.
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Mine looks slightly different, but I think it should be a straight rubber pipe. I have a spare one of those too, so will send both.
I've sent you an email. I found a straight bit of rubber pipe and put that on. Sadly, I have another on-going issues with the car, so I think I will shortly be selling/scrapping. :'( :'(
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Ah, ok. Is the pipe you fitted a snug fit ? If so, it sounds like it should do the job. Re the other issues. Have you had a new lamda sensor fitted but it still throws up a code ?
Shame to scrap a perfectly good car for the sake of an annoying, but not major, issue.
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Ah, ok. Is the pipe you fitted a snug fit ? If so, it sounds like it should do the job. Re the other issues. Have you had a new lamda sensor fitted but it still throws up a code ?
Shame to scrap a perfectly good car for the sake of an annoying, but not major, issue.
Hi Albs. Yes it's a snug fit.
It is great shame to get shot of the old girl, but having had the No1 Lambda sensor on Bank 2 changed twice and having just fitted a replacement ECU (along with the transponder etc.), it is unbelievably annoying to get this:
P0430-01 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2). Status:Absent
P0155-04 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Open (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Present
P0155-08 - O2 sensor heater circuit malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Present
P0150-04 - O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Intermittent
It's looking like a fault in the loom and that's where it gets to the end of the road for me. I have neither the skill or the time to go through the loom. I can't leave it as the Cat will get terminated and, in any event, I can't see it passing its MoT on 1 June. :'(
Been on the used car pages this afternoon, but can't identify a suitable Omega replacement as yet!
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It left the factory with 0420/0430 codes.
Nothing to say that those other codes weren't already present in the new ecu.
Running new wires is no big deal, likewise cleaning connectors.
Incidentally, all those codes are for the same sensor... Passenger side pre cat.
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It left the factory with 0420/0430 codes.
Nothing to say that those other codes weren't already present in the new ecu.
Running new wires is no big deal, likewise cleaning connectors.
Incidentally, all those codes are for the same sensor... Passenger side pre cat.
Yes, I'm on my 3rd passenger side pre cat sensor. It is possible those codes were present in the replacement ECU, but one hell of a coincidence!
Running new wires is a very big deal for me – well beyond my comfort zone!. In any event, I wouldn't know where to start – for example, which is the relevant ECU pin? There are loads of them in the two looms that connect to it!! :-\
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When you start digging into, you soon get into it.
You could forgive a garage for not getting too involved when the replaced the first sensor, but not checking the wiring after the second one is just plain lazy.
Have you swapped the sensors over so the B1S1 is plugged into the B2S1 loom and vice versa.
If the fault remains at B2S1 then the loom is the likely issue.
Start there and report back ;)
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When you start digging into, you soon get into it.
You could forgive a garage for not getting too involved when the replaced the first sensor, but not checking the wiring after the second one is just plain lazy.
Have you swapped the sensors over so the B1S1 is plugged into the B2S1 loom and vice versa.
If the fault remains at B2S1 then the loom is the likely issue.
Start there and report back ;)
The garage did a visual check when it was on the ramps (with me alongside). A proper circuit check is not possible unless you know the relevant EC pin/wire. I only have on-street parking and I can't easily get underneath so I would need to go back and get it on a lift again to do the swap test.
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The only way to check wiring is to test it. A cursory glance will only show obvious external defects.
Where abouts in the grand scheme of things are you?
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Re the small vacc pipe, I remember noticing this during the cambelt change, but because it was so mangled and brittle I think we planned to sort it another time. If I forgot that then my apologies.
The threshold codes can genuinely be ignored. They do no harm and don't alter the running at all - they are a feature, not a fault!
The lambda related fault, was never going to be with the ECU. The ECU's are ultra reliable.
I still suspect a break in continuity in the loom. If the ECU is ok, and the sensor is OK, there isn't much left. The heater open circuit code is fairly cut and dry. Usually it's a failed lambda, and then after that, an issue with the heater wire.
We can probably identify which one it is (and which ECU pin) from the wiring diagrams on here :y
We can work together to fix this, please don't scrap her - she's a lovely example, especially now she's sporting a top notch AR35, and is all cambelted, etc! :y
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Where abouts in the grand scheme of things are you?
NW London. Mill Hill.
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Re the small vacc pipe, I remember noticing this during the cambelt change, but because it was so mangled and brittle I think we planned to sort it another time. If I forgot that then my apologies.
The threshold codes can genuinely be ignored. They do no harm and don't alter the running at all - they are a feature, not a fault!
The lambda related fault, was never going to be with the ECU. The ECU's are ultra reliable.
I still suspect a break in continuity in the loom. If the ECU is ok, and the sensor is OK, there isn't much left. The heater open circuit code is fairly cut and dry. Usually it's a failed lambda, and then after that, an issue with the heater wire.
We can probably identify which one it is (and which ECU pin) from the wiring diagrams on here :y
We can work together to fix this, please don't scrap her - she's a lovely example, especially now she's sporting a top notch AR35, and is all cambelted, etc! :y
As always, I am happy to pay you to take a look James. :y
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Pinched wire during the box swap :-\
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Just thinking about the wiring colours for the Lambda sensor.
Apparently there are two type of sensor, Zirconia and Titania/ Looking at this chart, it seems to me that the Omega has Titania, so the heater wires will be red (+) and white (-). Am I right or wrong? (PS. It doesn't list the Omega V6, so don't bother with the drop=down menu).
http://www.ecolambda.co.uk/main/mcolours.htm (http://www.ecolambda.co.uk/main/mcolours.htm)
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4 wire sensors on many Vauxhalls tend to have 2 white wires on the sensor for the heater
for the purpose of finding a broken wire in the loom(sensor to ECU) ,the wiring colours will be different anyway
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4 wire sensors on many Vauxhalls tend to have 2 white wires on the sensor for the heater
for the purpose of finding a broken wire in the loom(sensor to ECU) ,the wiring colours will be different anyway
That's a visual illusion ;)
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The following is the wiring detail for all four sensors.
32 B1S2
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/50.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/60.
Pin 4 Blue X85/28.
36 B2S2
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/18.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/22.
Pin 4 Blue X85/44.
79 B1S1
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/34.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/55.
Pin 4 Blue X85/23.
91 B2S1
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/2.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/7.
Pin 4 Blue X85/39.
Pin 1 Grey is common to all four O2 sensors, the crank/cam /throttle position sensors, and is fed from FV3, through relay K114 and the 4mm RedBlue wire that runs through X3 and into the engine loom.
The ECU plugs are dismantle able for rewiring purposes.
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Cheers, Doc. :y :y
So grey and red/blue are for the lambda heaters??
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They are the same wire in effect. Grey at the sensors, RedBlue at the business end. The sensors are fed by a common 12v source.
The Green is the return to the ECU.
BrownBlack and Blue are the actual sensors.
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They are the same wire in effect. Grey at the sensors, RedBlue at the business end. The sensors are fed by a common 12v source.
The Green is the return to the ECU.
BrownBlack and Blue are the actual sensors.
:y
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Re the small vacc pipe, I remember noticing this during the cambelt change, but because it was so mangled and brittle I think we planned to sort it another time. If I forgot that then my apologies.
The threshold codes can genuinely be ignored. They do no harm and don't alter the running at all - they are a feature, not a fault!
The lambda related fault, was never going to be with the ECU. The ECU's are ultra reliable.
I still suspect a break in continuity in the loom. If the ECU is ok, and the sensor is OK, there isn't much left. The heater open circuit code is fairly cut and dry. Usually it's a failed lambda, and then after that, an issue with the heater wire.
We can probably identify which one it is (and which ECU pin) from the wiring diagrams on here :y
We can work together to fix this, please don't scrap her - she's a lovely example, especially now she's sporting a top notch AR35, and is all cambelted, etc! :y
As always, I am happy to pay you to take a look James. :y
No payment is required, let's get this fixed and get you back in love with the Omega :y
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I've not touched my Omega really, since October, apart from fitting the new Rad. I went outside yesterday for half an hour, and fitted the rear cambelt cover and a couple of the cam sprockets. It just made it take shape a little bit, and gave me a bit of motivation to carry on fixing it :y
My plan was to actually install the cambelt kit too, but my bloody T50 socket broke whilst torquing up the number 2 cam wheel....... so at 4pm on a Sunday, with no inclination to look through my "spare sockets box", that was game over ;D
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The following is the wiring detail for all four sensors.
32 B1S2
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/50.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/60.
Pin 4 Blue X85/28.
36 B2S2
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/18.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/22.
Pin 4 Blue X85/44.
79 B1S1
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/34.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/55.
Pin 4 Blue X85/23.
91 B2S1
Pin 1 Grey.
Pin 2 Green X85/2.
Pin 3 BrownBlack X85/7.
Pin 4 Blue X85/39.
Pin 1 Grey is common to all four O2 sensors, the crank/cam /throttle position sensors, and is fed from FV3, through relay K114 and the 4mm RedBlue wire that runs through X3 and into the engine loom.
The ECU plugs are dismantle able for rewiring purposes.
This is immensely helpful info, and I will refer to it if I end up doing any wiring tests on Mig's old girl. Thanks a million Doc :y
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Re the small vacc pipe, I remember noticing this during the cambelt change, but because it was so mangled and brittle I think we planned to sort it another time. If I forgot that then my apologies.
The threshold codes can genuinely be ignored. They do no harm and don't alter the running at all - they are a feature, not a fault!
The lambda related fault, was never going to be with the ECU. The ECU's are ultra reliable.
I still suspect a break in continuity in the loom. If the ECU is ok, and the sensor is OK, there isn't much left. The heater open circuit code is fairly cut and dry. Usually it's a failed lambda, and then after that, an issue with the heater wire.
We can probably identify which one it is (and which ECU pin) from the wiring diagrams on here :y
We can work together to fix this, please don't scrap her - she's a lovely example, especially now she's sporting a top notch AR35, and is all cambelted, etc! :y
As always, I am happy to pay you to take a look James. :y
No payment is required, let's get this fixed and get you back in love with the Omega :y
As soon as possible, James. Let me know when you are free! :y
I really am happy to pay you, if not for the work, then most certainly for your fuel costs – preferably for both!
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I’ll be in touch very soon mate. In the meantime before I come please can you do me a favour. The engine MUST be stone cold for this :y
Using your fancy Bluetooth scanny thing, can you bring up the live data before the first start of the day, (so engine off and stone cold, but ignition on).
Find the value for coolant temperature sensor. Check that it’s reading at (or slightly above) the ambient outside temperature with a cold engine. (Make a note)
Then turn on the car, let it idle, and keep watching the coolant temperature reading. Run it to the point the fans kick in, and record the temperature again.
Also note any trends in the middle - eg, it should just go up a bit at a time with no huge rises or falls.
It might be in your live data as “CTS” or “coolant temp” or similar. :y
My thinking is that a faulty / erratic CTS can cause problems with the engine going from open to closed loop, which can make lambdas rather unhappy!
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Additionally, please could you also note the MAF / Mass Air Flow reading at the following times
Engine off
Engine just started
Engine fully hot
:y
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Fancy code reader question...
You do realise that the Omega isn't OBD2 ;)
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Fancy code reader question...
You do realise that the Omega isn't OBD2 ;)
Mig has a Vauxhall specific Bluetooth jobby - I’ve seen it do basic live data :y
I also have a poor man’s Tech2 :-X ;)
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Hi James,
More than happy to do the readings as you suggest. Have just used the car and may be out to the shops later, so will do them tomorrow.
For what it's worth I took screenshots when I started the car yesterday. They may be of vague interest!
(https://i.ibb.co/5R1Vhwq/Screenshot-20230312-154440-Scan-My-Opel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NyFz2bw)
(https://i.ibb.co/L8Hfpq7/Screenshot-20230312-154429-Scan-My-Opel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/80tV8RZ)
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Was this immediately after start?
It’s showing an ambient outside temp of 9degrees and the coolant temp at 42 degrees!
If this was immediately upon starting, then your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
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Was this immediately after start?
It’s showing an ambient outside temp of 9degrees and the coolant temp at 42 degrees!
If this was immediately upon starting, then your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Yes. You can see by the RPM, it hadn't even settled down to 600RPM.
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That could be the solution to the problem then by the sound of it. If so, happy days. :)
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your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
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your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
Almost certainly not.
That's to say the guide applies to the 2.5/3.0.
You want this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283556554341
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Was this immediately after start?
It’s showing an ambient outside temp of 9degrees and the coolant temp at 42 degrees!
If this was immediately upon starting, then your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Yes. You can see by the RPM, it hadn't even settled down to 600RPM.
In that case, your coolant temp sensor is totally ficked!
Incorrect CTS readings will play hell with some of the other sensors - particularly lambda, and will affect the fuelling.
It’s a known problem which needs to be fixed, and is highly likely to be linked.
It could very be a £10 solution ….
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your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
Almost certainly not.
That's to say the guide applies to the 2.5/3.0.
You want this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283556554341
Are you sure mate? That’s a square plug which I think was phased out on facelift models. Mig’s Omega will have the later style oval connectors :y
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Was this immediately after start?
It’s showing an ambient outside temp of 9degrees and the coolant temp at 42 degrees!
If this was immediately upon starting, then your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Yes. You can see by the RPM, it hadn't even settled down to 600RPM.
In that case, your coolant temp sensor is totally ficked!
Incorrect CTS readings will play hell with some of the other sensors - particularly lambda, and will affect the fuelling.
It’s a known problem which needs to be fixed, and is highly likely to be linked.
It could very well be a £10 solution
-
your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
Almost certainly not.
That's to say the guide applies to the 2.5/3.0.
You want this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283556554341
When I put my car details in on the eBay one it says it's not compatible, but the Eurocarparts one says theirs is! ???
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Was this immediately after start?
It’s showing an ambient outside temp of 9degrees and the coolant temp at 42 degrees!
If this was immediately upon starting, then your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Yes. You can see by the RPM, it hadn't even settled down to 600RPM.
In that case, your coolant temp sensor is totally ficked!
Incorrect CTS readings will play hell with some of the other sensors - particularly lambda, and will affect the fuelling.
It’s a known problem which needs to be fixed, and is highly likely to be linked.
It could very well be a £10 solution
Should I order the eurocarparts one then, James?
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your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
Almost certainly not.
That's to say the guide applies to the 2.5/3.0.
You want this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283556554341
Are you sure mate? That’s a square plug which I think was phased out on facelift models. Mig’s Omega will have the later style oval connectors :y
100%
My '54 3.2 had the square plug. Which makes it really easy to confuse with the charcoal pcv plug.
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your coolant temp sensor is goosed and will play hell with the fuelling (and hence lambdas!)
Like this one?
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/starline-coolant-temperature-sensor-22488006s)
Almost certainly not.
That's to say the guide applies to the 2.5/3.0.
You want this one.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283556554341
Are you sure mate? That’s a square plug which I think was phased out on facelift models. Mig’s Omega will have the later style oval connectors :y
100%
My '54 3.2 had the square plug. Which makes it really easy to confuse with the charcoal pcv plug.
This is the one from my 2003 2.6 CDX. Definitely oval (the cars in bits so it was easy to check)
(https://i.ibb.co/8jzn83G/CD5-D6495-F942-4-DAE-99-AD-837-D5-C46-CF65.jpg)
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This ebay one says for the 2.6 V6 and has an oval plug, as James said.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332398099110?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=332398099110&targetid=4585169652812021&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354547&mkgroupid=1305120599331881&rlsatarget=pla-4585169652812021&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=6192ddfbe0f4102ee1dfb9f498e56a0e (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332398099110?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=332398099110&targetid=4585169652812021&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354547&mkgroupid=1305120599331881&rlsatarget=pla-4585169652812021&abcId=9300541&merchantid=87779&msclkid=6192ddfbe0f4102ee1dfb9f498e56a0e)
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I can only speak from my experience...
Also, the CTS is potentially a red herring as the only actual fault showing is an O2 heater fault.
Not to mention that the Grey wires from the the 02 sensors connect with the coolant temp sensor via the GreyBlack wires from both the camshaft position sensor and Air mass meter.
All seven components return to the ECU by way of BlueRed wire to X85/28 ;)
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You can have the one I’ve got here if you want it. It’s a genuine GM one and will get you on the road quickly.
Happy to install it for you, it would be prudent to do the wiring tests at the same time.
I also have a theory that perhaps if the fuelling was wrong, maybe the 02 sensor heater was running constantly and has burnt itself out - I believe it’s only meant to run for short periods when the car is in open loop
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You can have the one I’ve got here if you want it. It’s a genuine GM one and will get you on the road quickly.
Happy to install it for you, it would be prudent to do the wiring tests at the same time.
I also have a theory that perhaps if the fuelling was wrong, maybe the 02 sensor heater was running constantly and has burnt itself out - I believe it’s only meant to run for short periods when the car is in open loop
Thanks James, but I've just ordered the Eurocarparts one. As it's next door to the supermarket I'm going to tomorrow, I thought I may as well take the plunge!
Is it easy to replace or does it need an engine disassembly (like yours! ;D ;D )?
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You can have the one I’ve got here if you want it. It’s a genuine GM one and will get you on the road quickly.
Happy to install it for you, it would be prudent to do the wiring tests at the same time.
I also have a theory that perhaps if the fuelling was wrong, maybe the 02 sensor heater was running constantly and has burnt itself out - I believe it’s only meant to run for short periods when the car is in open loop
Thanks James, but I've just ordered the Eurocarparts one. As it's next door to the supermarket I'm going to tomorrow, I thought I may as well take the plunge!
Is it easy to replace or does it need an engine disassembly (like yours! ;D ;D )?
I just checked the OOF maintenance guide and I see it is a plenum-off job, so I think over to you!!
If you fancy this Thursday, the weather looks OK-ish and the teachers are on strike at the School, so parking should be fine!
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It’s a plenum off job for sure which I’m sure you’d be ok with. I can’t recall from memory if it’s then accessible, or if the inlet manifold and injectors need to come out as well.
Just let me know if you need some help :y
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It’s a plenum off job for sure which I’m sure you’d be ok with. I can’t recall from memory if it’s then accessible, or if the inlet manifold and injectors need to come out as well.
Just let me know if you need some help :y
See above!
More a case of can you do it for me, rather than helping me! ;D
And, yes, I will deffo pay you for travel and time. :y
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I can only speak from my experience...
Also, the CTS is potentially a red herring as the only actual fault showing is an O2 heater fault.
Not to mention that the Grey wires from the the 02 sensors connect with the coolant temp sensor via the GreyBlack wires from both the camshaft position sensor and Air mass meter.
All seven components return to the ECU by way of BlueRed wire to X85/28 ;)
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I’ve an appointment on Thursday. Free tomorrow afternoon? I can possibly make that work
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It may well be a red herring. But if the CTS is buggered it throws a lot of unknowns into the mix - and as MDTM often says - must fix the known problems first :y
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It has a common connection with an active code.
I would put money on it being a trapped wire between the O2 sensor and the ECU, and would focus on the Grey wire.
Would have offered to investigate, but I am pretty tied up until the end of April :-\
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As an aside, Eurocraparts list no sensors for OU54AEW.
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I’ve an appointment on Thursday. Free tomorrow afternoon? I can possibly make that work
Best not tomorrow as the car is not outside and I have to go and get some provisions.
Wednesday could be on as the teachers on strike both Wednesday and Thursday.
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Thursday should be okay. I'll confirm for sure by morning :y
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Out of interest, what Lambda sensor did you fit?
When the lambda fault code is cleared, does it return immediately, or does it take a while of driving before it comes back?
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Out of interest, what Lambda sensor did you fit?
When the lambda fault code is cleared, does it return immediately, or does it take a while of driving before it comes back?
NGK sensor (there were no Bosch available at all in the UK). It won't let me clear the O2 heater circuit and malfunction, but the others go and the light goes out.
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Out of interest, what Lambda sensor did you fit?
When the lambda fault code is cleared, does it return immediately, or does it take a while of driving before it comes back?
NGK sensor (there were no Bosch available at all in the UK). It won't let me clear the O2 heater circuit and malfunction, but the others go and the light goes out.
This does point slightly away from the CTS causing the lambda issue... because I wouldn't expect the code to return until the engine was restarted - BUT there is still a chance the dodgey CTS could have caused a good lambda sensor to fail if it's kept the heater element constantly on for hours at a time.
In any event - that CTS is goosed if it's reading 42deg at ambient temperature, and even on it's own could cause rough running and poor fuelling. So it needs to be changed regardless (especially for £13) which affords a good opportunity whilst there to inspect the wiring back to the ECU...
We will get there, we really will :y
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Surely it would run the sensor heaters in ALL the exhaust sensors... 🤔
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Surely it would run the sensor heaters in ALL the exhaust sensors... 🤔
What is the trigger event for the ECU to stop running the heater(s)? Is it, a certain coolant temp threshold, temperature in the exhaust, some form of feedback from lambdas individually? If it's not the latter, then I agree with you - if it is then it makes things all the more curious....
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The heaters are fed from the ecu individually and return through a common wire that runs through the CTS. (as well as the cam sensor and mass air sensor).
The cam sensor is on/off, so as long as it sees a signal, no issue.
The MAF is variable and cross references with the throttle position, and again no code so is apparently within limits.
The CTS doesn't trigger an error within the ecu, ie it is within reason. If the car had been driven upto temp within the preceding few hours, then the coolant could easily have been at 42°. No mention of this, but Migalot did say that it wasn't from overnight stone cold. And unless the temp is verified by a secondary check such as the gauge, and or hands on, there's a fair chance the ecu sensor is reading correctly. (from experience, when these fail, they tend to go full Siberia mode and read - 40°, which increases the injector times enough to flood a remotely warm engine in a UK winter).
Cold start enrichment will happen as a result of intake air temp/external temp and possibly coolant temp, and at idle will be active for several minutes unless the throttle is pressed. Don't forget, it's sole purpose is to get the cats upto temp.
The O2 sensors contain two circuits... Heater and sensor.
The sensor side is reporting normally, ie no fault.
The heater side is reporting a fault on one consistent sensor. Replacing this three times has not changed the fault at all.
Ergo, the fault is in the wiring.
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The Lambda sensor heater will be monitored for resistance by the ECU, so it's probably a wiring fault, not related to the CTS, in my view.
Lambda sensor heaters are normally PTC heaters that stabilise their own temperature, so are only connected to the ECU for monitoring purposes.
First job for me would be to check the resistance of the heater lines between ECU and lambda sensor socket.
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The Lambda sensor heater will be monitored for resistance by the ECU, so it's probably a wiring fault, not related to the CTS, in my view.
Lambda sensor heaters are normally PTC heaters that stabilise their own temperature, so are only connected to the ECU for monitoring purposes.
First job for me would be to check the resistance of the heater lines between ECU and lambda sensor socket.
Yes, as soon as I read that the fault won’t clear with the engine still off, I had doubts about the CTS causing this issue (although it does still appear to be faulty based on we know).
What resistance would you expect to see, Kevin? :y
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The Lambda sensor heater will be monitored for resistance by the ECU, so it's probably a wiring fault, not related to the CTS, in my view.
Lambda sensor heaters are normally PTC heaters that stabilise their own temperature, so are only connected to the ECU for monitoring purposes.
First job for me would be to check the resistance of the heater lines between ECU and lambda sensor socket.
Yes, as soon as I read that the fault won’t clear with the engine still off, I had doubts about the CTS causing this issue (although it does still appear to be faulty based on we know).
What resistance would you expect to see, Kevin? :y
That was a stupid question by me, please ignore it. I was thinking about measuring ohms across an injector or similar, not testing for end to end continuity. Wake up James ;D
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Resistance down the wire from damage will be higher than a good wire. So comparing the resistance of all four wires between the plug and the ecu will confirm damage in a given wire. I suspect you will find the green wire has a slightly higher resistance to the others.
Continuity or lack off/open circuit will indicate a break but not internal damage... There being a subtle distinction ;)
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Resistance down the wire from damage will be higher than a good wire. So comparing the resistance of all four wires between the plug and the ecu will confirm damage in a given wire. I suspect you will find the green wire has a slightly higher resistance to the others.
Continuity or lack off/open circuit will indicate a break but not internal damage... There being a subtle distinction ;)
Yes agreed I think I’ll check the resistance of all sensors and compare them. Get the full picture :y
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This info is probably of no use, but I went to the car and, with ignition only, I was able to clear all existing codes. The moment the engine started, however, Sensor Heater Circuit Open and Sensor Heater circuit malfunction both popped up.
I drove a couple of miles to the supermarket and got the above two PLUS O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction and Sensor Circuit No Activity.
It's definitely running a bit lumpy at idle. Not too bad at speed.
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This info is probably of no use, but I went to the car and, with ignition only, I was able to clear all existing codes. The moment the engine started, however, Sensor Heater Circuit Open and Sensor Heater circuit malfunction both popped up.
I drove a couple of miles to the supermarket and got the above two PLUS O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction and Sensor Circuit No Activity.
It's definitely running a bit lumpy at idle. Not too bad at speed.
Good to know
Is it today you collect the CTS?
Please can you make sure car is stone cold (Eg, has been sat overnight) when I See it? :y
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This info is probably of no use, but I went to the car and, with ignition only, I was able to clear all existing codes. The moment the engine started, however, Sensor Heater Circuit Open and Sensor Heater circuit malfunction both popped up.
I drove a couple of miles to the supermarket and got the above two PLUS O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction and Sensor Circuit No Activity.
It's definitely running a bit lumpy at idle. Not too bad at speed.
Good to know
Is it today you collect the CTS?
Please can you make sure car is stone cold (Eg, has been sat overnight) when I See it? :y
Yes, I have the CTS!
When are you coming?
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Just need to make sure I can use the car, but I'm thinking tomorrow
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Just need to make sure I can use the car, but I'm thinking tomorrow
Sounds good to me. You have my WhatsApp number, so you can message me. :y
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Many thanks once again to James V6CDX for coming round to look at my car.
He changed the coolant temperature sensor and went about trying to trace the stubborn lambda sensor fault but, sadly, to no avail. Back to square one. :'(
I am sure James will be along soon to describe the situation in detail.
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Many thanks once again to James V6CDX for coming round to look at my car.
He changed the coolant temperature sensor and went about trying to trace the stubborn lambda sensor fault but, sadly, to no avail. Back to square one. :'(
I am sure James will be along soon to describe the situation in detail.
I’ll just have a shower and chuck me clothes in the wash, and I’ll post progress and findings :y
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Sorry for delayed post, I had a shower and conked out on the sofa!
We had half a day looking at this yesterday. Here are the findings.
So - to start with a clean slate, we cleared the DTC's with the ignition on, but engine off.
Immediately (like, within a second) of starting the engine, the following fault codes appeared:
P0155-04 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Open (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Present
P0155-08 - O2 sensor heater circuit malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Present
For this reason, we can preclude any sort of fueling issue / imbalance, or erroneous input from any other sensors (such as CTS). Because the codes return immediately when the engine fires up, the fault is, exactly what the codes say - a problem with the heater circuit for Lambda sensor 1, on bank 2 (The pre-cat sensor).
Forgetting what I already know about the car, and applying a logical thought process, I think "what can be causing this", and the main suspects I arrive at
A) Lambda sensor failure itself (failure of the heater) - usually most likely suspect, although not with this car.
B) Wiring problem between the ECU and the lambda sensor (second most likely suspect)
C) Problem within the ECU itself (as we know, highly unlikely and improbably, but mentioned for completeness).
Now applying what we know about this specific car...
1) We can preclude an issue with the sensor. Apart from the fact it's been changed a couple of times, just to be sure, we swapped the plugs - so, we plugged the actual B2S1 into the loom plug for B1S1, and the actual B1S1 into the loom for B2S1. More simply, we swapped the plugs for the two front lambda sensors. Despite doing this, and clearing the codes, immediately upon re-start, the same codes appeared - for bank 2 sensor 1 heater circuit.
So, based on this, we can 100% preclude this issue being with the sensor itself on B2S1.
So now we've ruled out the lambda sensor - let's look at the next most likely cause - a fault in the wiring, between the ECU plug, and the B2S1 connector pins.
Using the information very helpfully given by Dr G, we did the following tests, using a multimeter:
Bank 2 Sensor 1 (The one it's moaning about)
Pin 1 Grey (The live feed to the heater circuit) - a healthy looking 13.9 volts (engine running) - indicating there's no issue with voltage getting to the sensor?
The following were then tested using a multi meter on it's lowest ohm setting:
Pin 2 (Green wire) to pin 2 on X85 - 0.8
Pin 3 (Brown and Black) to pin 7 on X85 - 0.7
Pin 4 (Blue) to pin 9 on X85 - 0.7
On the face of things this looked okay, so we also tested it against one of the others (Bank 2 Sensor 2 - post cat) - and got exactly the same values.
I couldn't compare the bank 1 plugs, because the ECU Pins posted on here for B1 connectors didn't seem to match up (For example, X85/50 doesn't have any wire connected to it at the ECU end).
But as it stands, the values look fairly consistent, and don't indicate a wiring problem - although I still maintain it's the most likely cause.
We can rule out the ECU, as well as being indestructable - this one has also been swapped out, and the fault follows it.
The only thing I am unsure of, is the grey common wire feeding each sensor. At a first thought, it's clearly giving the sensor voltage which suggests that the circuit is okay. But, as DG says, it's fed from a common source - so, maybe is there a problem upstream of that source, between the common source and the ECU plug? I'm not sure what locations I would use to go about testing this, if so? (I'll ponder the wiring diagrams later, to see what I can see).
Because of (limited) access, I am in the mindset that the loom needs to be out of the car for a thorough inspection. And as we know, removal of that loom is not the most difficult job in the world.
I would like to identify and fix the fault, rather than "fit and hope" - but, we have found a loom from our famously known and trusted Heathrow based Omega breaker for good money, so given how strongly we can preclude the sensor itself, and the ECU - there is a serious temptation to just fit a known good loom - especially as the existing loom would have to come out to be thoroughly tested in any event?
I and I have no doubt Migalot would appreciate your comments and opinions, I feel we are SO close to resolving this problem, and it would be an unforgivable sin to scrap such a lovely and now fairly rare car (it really is in good shape!) for the sake of of what is a stupid electrical gremlin!
I don't mind going to Migalot and getting my hands dirty on / under the car, but I am the first to admit that whilst I get all the concepts, electrics are not my strongest point, and many heads are better than one. I really hope we can collectively get to the bottom of this and implement a permanent fix :y
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My money is on it having been pinched during the gearbox swap.
Fresh loom is the easiest starting point as the common connections are buried within the loom, and as you rightly suggest, it requires removal to inspect it so you may as well start there.
Having said that I would confirm that X3 is correctly connected. This is one of the round connectors next to the battery.
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My money is on it having been pinched during the gearbox swap.
Taking the "I couldn't possibly have done that" emotion out of the equation, this is actually a logical thought process which I too would seriosuly consider were I looking at this fault from the outside, knowing a box swap had taken place.
If the gearbox had been changed in bodge-it and scarper's backstreet garage, it would in fact be at the very top of my list. But having changed it personally (and carefully) I would be rather surprised if it were the case - I say this because I am very aware of the fact these cars are ageing, and take particular care around wiring and electrical connectors when I work on them.
You're right to raise it though, and it shouldn't be discounted.
In this case, I am not convinced. This fault wasn't present in the weeks that followed the gearbox work, and the car then ran for months without the fault code being constantly present, so if it were a trapped wire, it would have to have been slight enough to have only caused an intermittent fault, before then worsening. Had I pinched a wire (for example, in the bellhousing) I would expect the clamping forces to completely destroy it, rather than cause an intermittent fault.
I also ask myself, (given the fault code is constant for open circuit) how come the heater wire gets a healthy voltage, and the resistance between the X85 ECU plug and all of the pins on the sensor plug is consistent - to me this suggests the fault is upstream of the sensor wires, somewhere else in the loom - especially given that (as you say) the common connections are buried within it.
Fresh loom is the easiest starting point as the common connections are buried within the loom, and as you rightly suggest, it requires removal to inspect it so you may as well start there.
This I do definitely agree with :y I remember thinking the loom looked a bit man-handled when I very first went under the car to look at solenoid issue, before taking off the box. There were small tell-tale signs of poor workmanship, such as some cable shrouds missing, and routing of wires sloppy. This also furthers my case that a straight loom swap is the best course of action.
Having said that I would confirm that X3 is correctly connected. This is one of the round connectors next to the battery.
All three round connectors by the battery were disassembled, checked, and put firmly back together over the last couple of days. I've known them to be responsible for electrical gremlins before, so made a point of double checking :y
Migalot - I wanted to hear someone else say it, on the basis that auto-electrics are not my strongest point - but as there is agreement that the loom would have to come out for a proper inspection in any case, I say we go ahead and order / fit that loom we identified. It's from a breaker who has a 100% reputation on here and is very knowledgable with Omegas, so I'd say it will be a good purchase. It's really not that big a job.
And, most of all, it would be £85 well spent if it cures this fault, restores your trust in the car, and keeps (one of the better) Omegas on the road! :y
It would, of course, also be prime-time to replace that leaky cam-cover gasket, at the same time ;) :y
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James: Loom just purchased from that chap in Harmondsworth. :y
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James: Loom just purchased from that chap in Harmondsworth. :y
Result, we just need to identify a good day to fit it, then :y
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This is the circuit you need :
https://github.com/MalcolmRobb/OmegaBCircuits/blob/master/1800-1849.pdf
The 4 lambda sensors are P32, P36, P79 and P91. Since you're only getting issues with one of them, it's unlikely to be the 12V feed (the grey wire) to the heater elephant (from X3)
It could be the car loom side connector pin 1 or pin 2 to the lambda sensor. I know you've contitnuity checked it to X85pin1&2, but it could be that the connector pin itself is 'splayed' apart. When you con-check it by poking the AVO probe up it, it connects. But when you plug it into the lambda sensor connector it fails to mate. That would also give you the fault if you swapped the banks, since the loom side pin still wouldn't connect to the other sensor.
To check this, plug all the sensors back in and continuity check from X85 pin 2 to X85 pin 34 (or pin 18 or pin 50). That buzzes through two lambda sensors heaters (P79 and P91). If it's open circuit then it confirms a wiring loom fault. If that checks out, then the connector and loom are OK, and it's looking like a duff ECU.
You also have an error or typo in you initial con checking. The sensor (not heater) terminals on X85 are pins 7(Brown and Black) and 39(Blue), not 7 and 9. However, since it's moaning about the heater not the sensor, chances are this is not the fault anyway.
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This is the circuit you need :
https://github.com/MalcolmRobb/OmegaBCircuits/blob/master/1800-1849.pdf
The 4 lambda sensors are P32, P36, P79 and P91. Since you're only getting issues with one of them, it's unlikely to be the 12V feed (the grey wire) to the heater elephant (from X3)
It could be the car loom side connector pin 1 or pin 2 to the lambda sensor. I know you've contitnuity checked it to X85pin1&2, but it could be that the connector pin itself is 'splayed' apart. When you con-check it by poking the AVO probe up it, it connects. But when you plug it into the lambda sensor connector it fails to mate. That would also give you the fault if you swapped the banks, since the loom side pin still wouldn't connect to the other sensor.
To check this, plug all the sensors back in and continuity check from X85 pin 2 to X85 pin 34 (or pin 18 or pin 50). That buzzes through two lambda sensors heaters (P79 and P91). If it's open circuit then it confirms a wiring loom fault. If that checks out, then the connector and loom are OK, and it's looking like a duff ECU.
You also have an error or typo in you initial con checking. The sensor (not heater) terminals on X85 are pins 7(Brown and Black) and 39(Blue), not 7 and 9. However, since it's moaning about the heater not the sensor, chances are this is not the fault anyway.
Thanks. I changed the ECU and still get the problem, so that can be discounted.
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James, when I mentioned pinching it during the gearbox swap, I did so because it could have been at any point during removal/refitting and not just as you bolted the two together. For example against a heat shield or body and the like ;)
Point being that the cause of any damage may have unnoticed and/or unapparent.
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I now have a replacement loom and hopefully it won't be long before James can get here to fit it.
The car is running rough, particularly at the lights with my foot on the brake. I'm wondering if, to add to my woes, whether I have vacuum leak somewhere.
My latest read-out is as follows:
P0155-04 - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Open (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Intermittent
P0155-08 - O2 sensor heater circuit malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Intermittent
P0300-08 - Unknown Error. Status:Intermittent
P0302-08 - Unknown Error. Status:Intermittent
P0304-08 - Unknown Error. Status:Intermittent
P0306-08 - Unknown Error. Status:Intermittent
P0150-01 - O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:NotDetected
P0150-08 - O2 sensor circuit malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:NotDetected
P0150-04 - O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2 Sensor 1). Status:Intermittent
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Seen your Whatsapp mate, I'll reply later :y
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Bank 2 misfires to add to the list...
Usual suspects...
Oil/water
Coil pack plug not plugged in or plug not fully seated.
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Bank 2 misfires to add to the list...
Usual suspects...
Oil/water
Coil pack plug not plugged in or plug not fully seated.
Getting awfully fed up with it now. >:(
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Bank 2 misfires to add to the list...
Usual suspects...
Oil/water
Coil pack plug not plugged in or plug not fully seated.
We'll do the camcover and check all this at the same time :)
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That's the end of the road! >:( >:(
James is here today and has replaced the loom. Guess what? Bank 2 Sensor 1 Heater Circuit malfunction AGAIN!!
It's NOT the sensor.
It's NOT the loom.
It's NOT the ECU.
Feel like driving the damn thing to the nearest scrappy. >:(
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Well, it has to be one of those three things.
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Well, it has to be one of those three things.
But it’s not :-(
We fitted a replacement loom today
Tried swapping b1 and b2 sensors and the fault doesn’t move
Then we fitted the a different ECU
Despite this - the second the car is started - it logs “open circuit” fault code for the lambda heater on B2 S1
I hate to say it but I’m short of ideas ….
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SORTED!
Despite what the ECU was reporting, it turns out it was not Bank 2 Sensor 1, but Bank 2 Sensor2. ::) ::)
There is clearly some connection between the two.
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Yaaay ! Glad to hear its sorted. Ive never even seen the car, but its been getting on my nerves. ;D
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Yaaay ! Glad to hear its sorted. Ive never even seen the car, but its been getting on my nerves. ;D
Not quite sorted yet!
We are going to fit a known good NS cat with known good GM lambdas in the morning. Then Job jobbed :y
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Yaaay ! Glad to hear its sorted. Ive never even seen the car, but its been getting on my nerves. ;D
It's nearly driven me to drink (doesn't take much these days, though)! ;D ;D
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Well done to all involved in getting to the bottom of it :)
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Did someone say drinking?
Just got home and found these in the fridge :y
(https://i.ibb.co/vhGpC8J/2-EABC475-9-F9-C-4946-8-A99-488-A1-B5-D51-A9.jpg)
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Well, it has to be one of those three things.
But it’s not :-(
We fitted a replacement loom today
Tried swapping b1 and b2 sensors and the fault doesn’t move
Then we fitted the a different ECU
Despite this - the second the car is started - it logs “open circuit” fault code for the lambda heater on B2 S1
I hate to say it but I’m short of ideas ….
Back to the beginning, I stated that ALL four sensors have a common wire.
If replacing the second sensor fixes it, the the issue might have been on the loom of that sensor. Don't forget that the tail to the sensor forms part of the overall loom.