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[Greenbay packer]

Hi, Are both sides of the handbrake cable on the 2.5 V6 estate the same length? If one side is slightly longer which side of the car does it go on? Thanks.

[TheBoy]

Only ever done saloons, and never noticed any different in lengths.  Not checked, but would have expected the saloon and estate to use the same handbrake cable?

[Doctor Gollum]

The calipers are in the same position relative to the lever so they should be the same.

However, unless it's snapped, then adjustment might be a better solution.

[Greenbay packer]

Thanks, clutching at straws really as I've had problems adjusting the handbrake leading to one failed MOT and only just passing the retest. The passenger side always adjusts ok and locks off on the rolling road but the OS is a problem and won't lock off. Its been like this ever since a new cable was fitted a few years back and no matter how careful I am with adjusting it the drivers side cable always seems a bit looser than the near side. I always go through the correct adjustment procedure slackening off the adjuster nut under the handbrake, etc, and the cables are correctly routed with no tight spots or indications of corrosion at the place where these normally snap. Under the car the compensator bar never seems to sit quite square and even here it feels that one side of the cable is looser than the other which is why I was wondering if the cables were slightly different lengths and had been fitted the wrong way round (though I've fitted these cables before and never worried about which way they were fitted and have had no issues so I didn't really think this was the answer). The drums are fine and the brake shoes are fine so I'm at a loss really. If the cables being different lengths could cause adjustment problems I'm wondering if the one fitted was faulty from the start - it was brand new when it was fitted and I've had problems since then, otherwise I'd be wondering if one side has simply stretched more than the other. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated, thank you.

[YZ250]

I take it that you are releasing the handbrake and then adjusting the star wheel inside each hub first before adjusting the cable. If one hub star wheel is set slacker than the other you can pull the handbrake on with all your might and one hub still won’t lock up.
Apologies if you are already setting it this way, just wanted to make sure before offering any further advice. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Mark DTM did a really thorough guide on setting up the handbrake properly 

[Greenbay packer]

I take it that you are releasing the handbrake and then adjusting the star wheel inside each hub first before adjusting the cable. If one hub star wheel is set slacker than the other you can pull the handbrake on with all your might and one hub still won’t lock up.
Apologies if you are already setting it this way, just wanted to make sure before offering any further advice. 

Yes, that's the way I do it. Thanks.

[Greenbay packer]

Mark DTM did a really thorough guide on setting up the handbrake properly 

I've seen the guide and that's exactly the way I adjust it, but it doesn't help with my current issue. I've changed several cables over the years and have always adjusted as in the guide but never had any issues until now.

[cam.in.head]

from what i can remember last time i fitted one the lengths are indeed different each side. either on the actual cable itself or the outer sheath.
the fact that the adjuster saddle isnt sitting square indicates a problem
either..
the cable is indeed handed and is the wrong war round.
the handbrake mechanism is wrongly adjusted or faulty otherwise.
the outer cable retainers are pulling through the eyes.this is a very common issue .the eyes are only a curl of metal rather than a solid ring.

[Doctor Gollum]

Slacken the star on other side three whole turns then adjust the difficult side. Then go back and adjust the working side.

Overadjusting one side will have the effect of restricting adjustment on the other side.

[cam.in.head]

and also to be completely sure make sure the return springs are present at each lever and the levers when adjusted are in the same relative place.

[dave the builder]

I've not replaced a cable on my omega (done many carlton ones, same cable), but on astra ,one side outer cable is slightly longer

[Nick W]

When I replaced the snapped cable on my estate, I had to bend the outer cable retaining rings back into shape/alignment. Then it was just a matter of adjusting it correctly - slacken cable, adjust the brake shoes and then the cable. That would have been a lot easier if the designers weren't German, and fitted the compensator inside the car.

[TheBoy]

Also, it one side isn't working, strip the handbrake mechanism inside the drum and clean it up.

That was an annual issue on my beloved Silver Bullet for some reason, never an issue on any of my other Omegas.

[Greenbay packer]

and also to be completely sure make sure the return springs are present at each lever and the levers when adjusted are in the same relative place.

Both are present, relatively new and seem to be in the same relative place.

[Greenbay packer]

Also, it one side isn't working, strip the handbrake mechanism inside the drum and clean it up.

That was an annual issue on my beloved Silver Bullet for some reason, never an issue on any of my other Omegas.

All is clean, free and working as it should be. I always clean the inside of the drums before adjusting and check the mechanism at the same time.

[Greenbay packer]

I've not replaced a cable on my omega (done many carlton ones, same cable), but on astra ,one side outer cable is slightly longer

That's interesting, thanks.

[Greenbay packer]

from what i can remember last time i fitted one the lengths are indeed different each side. either on the actual cable itself or the outer sheath.
the fact that the adjuster saddle isnt sitting square indicates a problem
either..
the cable is indeed handed and is the wrong war round.
the handbrake mechanism is wrongly adjusted or faulty otherwise.
the outer cable retainers are pulling through the eyes.this is a very common issue .the eyes are only a curl of metal rather than a solid ring.

Interesting, thanks, particularly if there is a difference in the cables or the sheaths as this may explain it, but there's no mention of any difference in Haynes. I may have to pick up a cheap one and lay it out on the ground (or the living room carpet if the wife's out!) just to satisfy my own curiosity. Pretty sure the retainers aren't pulling through the eyes as I had a good look along the cable when the car was on the ramp for the MOT.

[Greenbay packer]

When I replaced the snapped cable on my estate, I had to bend the outer cable retaining rings back into shape/alignment. Then it was just a matter of adjusting it correctly - slacken cable, adjust the brake shoes and then the cable. That would have been a lot easier if the designers weren't German, and fitted the compensator inside the car.

Interesting, when I get a chance I'll check the alignment of the retaining rings in case they have been bent as this could effectively alter the length of the cable.

[dave the builder]

Just compared a brand new QH branded omega /carlton cable from my hoard 
one sides cable is 15mm longer ,get it the wrong way round on the car and that doubles the difference (30mm ish)

[johnnydog]

The calipers are in the same position relative to the lever so they should be the same.

However, unless it's snapped, then adjustment might be a better solution.

Should be, or are?
If they are routed slightly differently side to side, then they could well be different lengths.

[Doctor Gollum]

The calipers are in the same position relative to the lever so they should be the same.

However, unless it's snapped, then adjustment might be a better solution.

Should be, or are?
If they are routed slightly differently side to side, then they could well be different lengths.

They go from the centre of the car to each wheel. I say should be, because geometrically it makes sense and I am not going to buy an Omega to measure it.

Feel free to measure your cables and report back.

[Greenbay packer]

Just compared a brand new QH branded omega /carlton cable from my hoard 
one sides cable is 15mm longer ,get it the wrong way round on the car and that doubles the difference (30mm ish)

That is very interesting and would probably be enough to explain my issues and why the compensator bar doesn't sit nicely when adjusted. If this is deliberate and not just inconsistent manufacturing I'm surprised there's not a lot of info saying which side to fit the longer length to.

[Andy B]

sounds like over use of the handbrake  (assuming the car has a proper gearbox with PARK  )

In all the 30-odd years of owing autos with a disc/drum set-up at the back I've yet to even see the shoes let alone need to replace or adjust a handbrake cable 

[YZ250]

sounds like over use of the handbrake  (assuming the car has a proper gearbox with PARK  )

In all the 30-odd years of owing autos with a disc/drum set-up at the back I've yet to even see the shoes let alone need to replace or adjust a handbrake cable 

You need evenly adjusted handbrake shoes for the all important handbrake turns. You know, for those times when you spot the turning that you need a little too late but you have nobody behind you and you just know from experience that performing a handbrake turn will get you the desired angle to make that turn in time.    With poorly set shoes in the hubs you’d end up dragging just one rear tyre and then it looks silly. 
Of course, I can’t do that now as I have the electronic park brake on our vehicles. How boring is that. 

[Andy B]

sounds like over use of the handbrake  (assuming the car has a proper gearbox with PARK  )

In all the 30-odd years of owing autos with a disc/drum set-up at the back I've yet to even see the shoes let alone need to replace or adjust a handbrake cable 

You need evenly adjusted handbrake shoes for the all important handbrake turns. You know, for those times when you spot the turning that you need a little too late but you have nobody behind you and you just know from experience that performing a handbrake turn will get you the desired angle to make that turn in time.    With poorly set shoes in the hubs you’d end up dragging just one rear tyre and then it looks silly. 
Of course, I can’t do that now as I have the electronic park brake on our vehicles. How boring is that. 

 

[Doctor Gollum]

sounds like over use of the handbrake  (assuming the car has a proper gearbox with PARK  )

In all the 30-odd years of owing autos with a disc/drum set-up at the back I've yet to even see the shoes let alone need to replace or adjust a handbrake cable 

You need evenly adjusted handbrake shoes for the all important handbrake turns. You know, for those times when you spot the turning that you need a little too late but you have nobody behind you and you just know from experience that performing a handbrake turn will get you the desired angle to make that turn in time.    With poorly set shoes in the hubs you’d end up dragging just one rear tyre and then it looks silly. 
Of course, I can’t do that now as I have the electronic park brake on our vehicles. How boring is that. 

Reformed you say

[TheBoy]

sounds like over use of the handbrake  (assuming the car has a proper gearbox with PARK  )

In all the 30-odd years of owing autos with a disc/drum set-up at the back I've yet to even see the shoes let alone need to replace or adjust a handbrake cable 

You need evenly adjusted handbrake shoes for the all important handbrake turns. You know, for those times when you spot the turning that you need a little too late but you have nobody behind you and you just know from experience that performing a handbrake turn will get you the desired angle to make that turn in time.    With poorly set shoes in the hubs you’d end up dragging just one rear tyre and then it looks silly. 
Of course, I can’t do that now as I have the electronic park brake on our vehicles. How boring is that. 

Of all the Omega's I've owned, not one of them had enough snatch on the handbrake to manage a 1 point turn in any road I ever tried. Apparently.

[johnnydog]

The calipers are in the same position relative to the lever so they should be the same.

However, unless it's snapped, then adjustment might be a better solution.

Should be, or are?
If they are routed slightly differently side to side, then they could well be different lengths.

They go from the centre of the car to each wheel. I say should be, because geometrically it makes sense and I am not going to buy an Omega to measure it.

Feel free to measure your cables and report back.

Looks like Dave the Builder has already done the measuring in post #19, confirming they are different lengths. Should be, could be, ought to be, maybe, possibly, OR good old fashioned measuring....

[cam.in.head]

not sure on an estate but im pretty sure the compensator/saddle on a saloon is on the outside ,under the shields.
but again as mentioned earlier,if the saddle isnt straight then theres an uneven pull somewhere.my moneys on the cable being the wrong way round.(ie the op says the rear shoes are adjusted up correct each side and the levers that the cable hooks onto are in the same relative places.so the difference causing the saddle to not sit straight must be in the cable.

[cam.in.head]

at the end of theday its easy enough to dissconnect the cable and reverse it

[Greenbay packer]

at the end of theday its easy enough to dissconnect the cable and reverse it

I agree, just wanted to make sure I was on the right track before starting in case there was no difference in the cable lengths.

[cam.in.head]

im pretty sure there was last time i did one and someone also mentioned it earlier up this thread.
either way its a good way to be sure and 100% check the curled hooks ! washer on them if needs be !
if the cable saddle doesnt sit straight then it must be something in the drums ?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

This may have already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but do they both have the same part number ?
If not then there has to be a difference.

[dave the builder]

This may have already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but do they both have the same part number ?
If not then there has to be a difference.

It's an assembly the compensator with N/S & O/S  cables fitted 

Looking at spec (on ebay listings ) the cable appears to be the same length BOTH sides 1550mm 1550mm

the 15MM difference on my BRAND NEW cable  may be a manufacturing defect 
It's a QH aftermarket cable ,15mm over 1550mm is 1%
that said , maybe the OP has a similar manufacturing defect 
 or the cable HAS stretched one side 
or it's NOT fitted or adjusted correctly 

$19.50 EBAY
£32.30 ebay clicky

sorry to mislead , but the cable I have spare IS 15mm difference
(I laid it flat ,tight on the floor ,see saw level )

[Doctor Gollum]

Would you Adam and Eve it...

[Greenbay packer]

This may have already been mentioned earlier in the thread, but do they both have the same part number ?
If not then there has to be a difference.

It's an assembly the compensator with N/S & O/S  cables fitted 

Looking at spec (on ebay listings ) the cable appears to be the same length BOTH sides 1550mm 1550mm

the 15MM difference on my BRAND NEW cable  may be a manufacturing defect 
It's a QH aftermarket cable ,15mm over 1550mm is 1%
that said , maybe the OP has a similar manufacturing defect 
 or the cable HAS stretched one side 
or it's NOT fitted or adjusted correctly 

$19.50 EBAY
£32.30 ebay clicky

sorry to mislead , but the cable I have spare IS 15mm difference
(I laid it flat ,tight on the floor ,see saw level )

I've now found an article on here by geoffr70 that seems to answer the question and confirms what some have said above in this post about the lengths being different. Geoff has posted a picture of the cables which shows them to be different lengths and clearly notes this in the second paragraph of section 10 where he also advises getting it right first time. Here's the link to his article: https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=102410.0

[cam.in.head]

yes i saw that too.
unfortunately it doesnt mention which side the longer one goes to !  but seeing as your problem only began after a new cable was fitted it is a good place to start.

[Greenbay packer]

yes i saw that too.
unfortunately it doesnt mention which side the longer one goes to !  but seeing as your problem only began after a new cable was fitted it is a good place to start.

Pretty confident this could resolve my issue - I'm hoping Geoff has laid the cable out as it should be on the car with the longer length being on the passenger side. At least I've got something worth checking now and can see what my lengths are when I remove the cable.

[cam.in.head]

main thing is getting the saddle straight. hopefully you will sort it.but i suppose even a new cable could be made slightly out so if thats so you can always add washers to one of the curled brackets to make it straight !

i have had a look under mine today for you and the saddle is straight. the pull is equal at both sides.only because you got me wanting to check !

[johnnydog]

On the Apec site, they list the Omega handbrake cables as two different overall lengths - 1513mm and 1545 mm. Unfortunately, it doesn't specify which side is which.... , but from that it appears they are not the same size; one difference being between the fixed mounting points - one is 883mm, the other 840mm.

[Doctor Gollum]

On the Apec site, they list the Omega handbrake cables as two different overall lengths - 1513mm and 1545 mm. Unfortunately, it doesn't specify which side is which.... , but from that it appears they are not the same size; one difference being between the fixed mounting points - one is 883mm, the other 840mm.

Apec struggle to manufacture brake discs that run true. Why would you expect them to produce a consistent cable?

Ate suggests 1550 for the front run and 840 for the rear...

https://www.123spareparts.co.uk/car-parts/ate/p-195485

Also, why fit a single cable when you can buy the complete thing

I wonder if this is why the OP is having issues... If the cable he replaced is from a different manufacturer to the other side then it will never be balanced regardless of how much it is adjusted.

[Doctor Gollum]

When I replaced mine, it was with whatever the local factors in Notinreading had in stock and it went in without a second thought and zero operating issues.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its not the total length that is important, it is the length of cable that protrudes from the fixed sheath that is.

[Nick W]

When I replaced mine, it was with whatever the local factors in Notinreading had in stock and it went in without a second thought and zero operating issues.

Mine was the same; bought a Pagid cable from ECP, drove home and fitted it. Although I didn't refit the heat shields.

[johnnydog]

On the Apec site, they list the Omega handbrake cables as two different overall lengths - 1513mm and 1545 mm. Unfortunately, it doesn't specify which side is which.... , but from that it appears they are not the same size; one difference being between the fixed mounting points - one is 883mm, the other 840mm.

Apec struggle to manufacture brake discs that run true. Why would you expect them to produce a consistent cable?

Ate suggests 1550 for the front run and 840 for the rear...

https://www.123spareparts.co.uk/car-parts/ate/p-195485

Also, why fit a single cable when you can buy the complete thing

I wonder if this is why the OP is having issues... If the cable he replaced is from a different manufacturer to the other side then it will never be balanced regardless of how much it is adjusted.

I have used Apec front brake pads previously, and they have a lot more bite and better pedal feel than the GM aftermarket 9192124 pads.
I have also previously fitted Apec discs and pads to a Honda CRV with no issues whatsoever.
Maybe your experience with Apec discs was down to (your) incorrect fitting - contaminated hub to disc surfaces, hub run out or even incorrect bedding in. A bad experience due to any of the above doesn't mean all Apec discs aren't true from manufacture.

[Doctor Gollum]

terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired

[TheBoy]

Must be honest, I thought Apec brakes were utter shite on the Omega.  In the same league as other budget brands like Mintex, Pagid etc.

I tended to stick with GM aftermarket on convenience and significantly cheaper than anything else, plus they actually worked, even after some abuse.  I would use the OE GM ones as an when they came up for sensible money.

I accept my use case might be different, as it was in Milton Keynes every day, so that was usually 10-12 lots of dual carriageway speeds to zero in quick succession, several times a day.

[Doctor Gollum]

It becomes a no brainier when genuine is within 10% of the local factors best efforts and lasts significantly longer.

Haven't used aftermarket brake parts since the Omega.

[TheBoy]

Also, bear in mind, according to Darth Loo-knee when I took Vader for a spirited run, I "drive like a cock"

[johnnydog]

It becomes a no brainier when genuine is within 10% of the local factors best efforts and lasts significantly longer.

Haven't used aftermarket brake parts since the Omega.

There is a huge difference in performance between the OE pads 9195057 and the aftermarket 9192124. So much so that I started using alternative brands such as Apec, and Comline / Allied Nippon (same pad but different branding). Comline brake discs and pads are very good - for what my opinion is worth.....
Aftermarket GM pads are called 'aftermarket' for a reason, and are aimed at reducing aftersales maintenance costs, with a reduction in quality. I have found them a bit 'wooden' compared with the OE pads. I always try to stick with GM parts wherever possible, but their aftermarket pads I'm afraid are not one of them.
Fortunately, I recently came across several sets of the original OE brake pad sets 9195057 for relatively little money, so that's me sorted for a while!

[Doctor Gollum]

I did say since the Omega 

[TheBoy]

It becomes a no brainier when genuine is within 10% of the local factors best efforts and lasts significantly longer.

Haven't used aftermarket brake parts since the Omega.

There is a huge difference in performance between the OE pads 9195057 and the aftermarket 9192124. So much so that I started using alternative brands such as Apec, and Comline / Allied Nippon (same pad but different branding). Comline brake discs and pads are very good - for what my opinion is worth.....
Aftermarket GM pads are called 'aftermarket' for a reason, and are aimed at reducing aftersales maintenance costs, with a reduction in quality. I have found them a bit 'wooden' compared with the OE pads. I always try to stick with GM parts wherever possible, but their aftermarket pads I'm afraid are not one of them.
Fortunately, I recently came across several sets of the original OE brake pad sets 9195057 for relatively little money, so that's me sorted for a while!

Yup, I too came across regular sources of the OE pad, although these did start to dry up a bit, and I did get through an awful lot of pads on my Omegas.

The GM aftermarket (Omega ones) felt a bit dead on the first application, but improved after that.  Where they were leagues ahead of the crap like Mintex/Pagid/Apec etc (I tried just about every one out there, as the GM aftermarket was quite dusty) is the abuse they would take before throwing in the towel.  Hence I would, and do, recommend them above all others except OE ones for normal/heavy road use.  And given they were cheaper than the other budget pads, and ultra convenient with Trade Club (delivered for free by the dealer in a van), it was absolutely a no-brainer.


Oddly, the GM aftermarket for the Zafira always seemed to have lots of initial bite, even on first application in the morning.

[dave the builder]

Oddly, the GM aftermarket for the Zafira always seemed to have lots of initial bite, even on first application in the morning.

         
Because the Zafira's "OI ! ,  I don't do fast" software map licks in                                                               

[TheBoy]

Oddly, the GM aftermarket for the Zafira always seemed to have lots of initial bite, even on first application in the morning.

         
Because the Zafira's "OI ! ,  I don't do fast" software map licks in                                                               

It wasn't built for speed. Or handling. Or comfort.

But I miss it

[dave the builder]

Oddly, the GM aftermarket for the Zafira always seemed to have lots of initial bite, even on first application in the morning.

         
Because the Zafira's "OI ! ,  I don't do fast" software map licks in                                                               

It wasn't built for speed. Or handling. Or comfort.

But I miss it

I hate the driving position ,on the rare occasions I have to drive it 
Same seat as the astra G ,which  i feel OK driving 

[countrywoman]

Every Zafira I moted was full of crisp and biscuit crumbs, every surface was sticky and smelt of old socks! 

[dave the builder]

Every Zafira I moted was full of crisp and biscuit crumbs, every surface was sticky and smelt of old socks!

being a 7 seater ,the Zafira tends to be used for mass brat transport
brats are not house or car trained ,and the parents throw crisps and biscuits at them to keep the "noise" down 
the zafira is a very versatile vehicle , I just don't like having to drive it 

[Doctor Gollum]

Oddly, the GM aftermarket for the Zafira always seemed to have lots of initial bite, even on first application in the morning.

         
Because the Zafira's "OI ! ,  I don't do fast" software map licks in                                                               

It wasn't built for speed. Or handling. Or comfort.

But I miss it

I hate the driving position ,on the rare occasions I have to drive it 
Same seat as the astra G ,which  i feel OK driving 

Bolted at the same height too probably... The overwhelming sense of impending doom from the rear five seats is probably what does it. Also, it's probably shorter than the Astra estate, which won't help.

[TheBoy]

Every Zafira I moted was full of crisp and biscuit crumbs, every surface was sticky and smelt of old socks!

being a 7 seater ,the Zafira tends to be used for mass brat transport
brats are not house or car trained ,and the parents throw crisps and biscuits at them to keep the "noise" down 
the zafira is a very versatile vehicle , I just don't like having to drive it 

And McDonalds Happy Meal toys.

Its modern parenting.  Now discipline is frowned upon, giveing the little darlings sweets and crisps to smear over their tablet computers in the car is the only way to get them behave.  Dad had more effective methods when I was a kid.  And McDonalds wasn't invented in Buckinghamshire.

[cam.in.head]

any joy yet ?

[cam.in.head]

just wondering if you have sorted this.
be nice to know for peoples future reference .and for the help people have offered too.
fwiw mine are definately different lengths each side and the saddlesits level.