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[TheBoy]

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check the garage

[Varche]

 

[zirk]

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check Mrs TB was OK

Fixed that for you, 

[Andy B]

 

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check the garage

   

[Sir Tigger KC]

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check the garage

PTSD?     

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check the garage

PTSD?     

Where there is blame there is a claim.

[TheBoy]

....sounded and felt familiar, so the first thing I did was check the garage

PTSD?     

Where there is blame there is a claim.

Joking aside, thats what the nice couple opposite, who's car my garage door landed on, thought.  As did I TBH.  But turns out, there are strict definitions on if their is blame .

I felt sorry for them, through no fault of their own, they had to fork out to get their roof straightened and resprayed, and lost their no claims discount

[Doctor Gollum]

You mean the your responsibility, and liability, ended when it cleared our boundary... 

Mind you, hearing the audio from the lady calling her dogs in, it was quite an impressive boom

[TheBoy]

You mean the your responsibility, and liability, ended when it cleared our boundary... 

Mind you, hearing the audio from the lady calling her dogs in, it was quite an impressive boom

My insurance also didn't cover the damage to my neighbour's property and contents.  Again, its around the definition of blame.  And it gets worse, as there is then a collection of things called insurable events - not that that was the case in my case.


Honestly, that boom on Saturday was the loudest sonic boom I've ever heard, and the house vibrated, like something heavy had hit it.  I assume the 2 jets were close, as when I ran out to check the garage, I heard a jet engine (though it sounded more like a very low airliner taking off, not like a fast jet, but not sure if flying at the speed of sound would effect how fast it sounded?)

[Doctor Gollum]

I guess the modern stuff has a bit more poke to it than the Tornados and F111s we grew up with 

[TheBoy]

I guess the modern stuff has a bit more poke to it than the Tornados and F111s we grew up with 

I was staying near RAF Lakenheath when the yanks bombed Libya in the 80s, that was an interesting night of F111s

I think I read this was Typhoons on Saturday, despite looking, I couldn't see anything in the sky.

[Sir Tigger KC]

We used to regularly hear the sonic boom as Concorde opened up the throttles on her way to New York when she cleared Cornwall, although here in West Darzet it was like distant thunder and only when the conditions were right.  .

[Doctor Gollum]

We used to regularly hear the sonic boom as Concorde opened up the throttles on her way to New York when she cleared Cornwall, although here in West Darzet it was like distant thunder and only when the conditions were right.  .

Same in Guernsey, the Air France 2100 departure always interrupted the evening news. Beautiful views of it with the setting sun reflecting  off the underside

[Marks DTM Calib]

I guess the modern stuff has a bit more poke to it than the Tornados and F111s we grew up with 

I was staying near RAF Lakenheath when the yanks bombed Libya in the 80s, that was an interesting night of F111s

I think I read this was Typhoons on Saturday, despite looking, I couldn't see anything in the sky.

Yes, a pair scrambled from Coningsby on QRA to escort a passenger aircraft into Stansted which had radio failure

[YZ250]

……….
Honestly, that boom on Saturday was the loudest sonic boom I've ever heard, and the house vibrated, like something heavy had hit it.  ………

My daughter said the same, although she’s in Bicester so not that far from you.

[LC0112G]

……….
Honestly, that boom on Saturday was the loudest sonic boom I've ever heard, and the house vibrated, like something heavy had hit it.  ………

My daughter said the same, although she’s in Bicester so not that far from you.

That's because this time they were quite low. Normally when they 'dash' from Coningsby to the south west, they climb to 41,000ft and then rip along over Oxford and Bristol before descending to intercept whatever it is. There isn't any commercial traffic up at FL410 so they get direct routing from air traffic control. Sonic booms at that altitude are usually like a loud rumble of thunder.

This time the 'intruder' had lost radio contact, and wasn't following it's flight plan. It was supposed to be going from Iceland to Southend, but deviated and went over Oxford and down towards Heathrow. The two Typhoons (Rigid 11 & 12) launched at about 13:05, and headed south, intercepting the 'intruder' just west of Heathrow. No way for ATC to clear the Typhoons through the busy London airspace and get them to climb to FL410 and then back down to FL140, so they stayed at medium altitude - which results in a very loud 'crack' of a sonic boom.

There is going to be a fuss about this one. Lost radio contact, then deviated from flight plan, and apparantly initially refused to follow instructions from the pilots of the QRA jets (to divert to Stansted) and tried to continue to Southend. Post 9/11 that's one way to get yourself shot down.

[Doctor Gollum]

A Canadair Dash8 on a delivery flight to darkest Africa with about 3 fuel stops apparently...

Large enough to be annoying but not large enough to make a big mess.

[TheBoy]

Dash-8's, they are the little twin prop puddle jumpers that Flybe used to take me Southampton<>Jersey IIRC?

[Doctor Gollum]

Dash-8's, they are the little twin prop puddle jumpers that Flybe used to take me Southampton<>Jersey IIRC?

Thems the ones

[TheBoy]

That's because this time they were quite low.

Thanks for the detailed explanation , much appreciated.

Why was the sound of the jets (assuming that was what I heard when I went out, after the sonic boom) sounding slow moving?  I've been up the side of big hills when Typhoons buzz through the valley, as the noise "moves" fast.  The noise of these jets sounded like it wasn't "moving" that fast across the sky....    ....unless they were so far in the distance by then, the noise was just coming from the same direction?

[LC0112G]

A Canadair Dash8 on a delivery flight to darkest Africa with about 3 fuel stops apparently...

Large enough to be annoying but not large enough to make a big mess.

Plenty big enough to cause significant casualties if you crash it into (say) Brent cross, or a packed football/rugby stadium. They could also improve LHR T5 by crashing into and demolishing it. During the Olympics we had QRA Typhoons intercepting Robinson R22 helicopters down here when they encroached on the sailing events in Portland harbour.

Ultimatley it doesn't matter if you're an A380 or a R22. You follow the rules, and if intercepted do what the fighters say, otherwise your day will get worse.

[Doctor Gollum]

That's because this time they were quite low.

Thanks for the detailed explanation , much appreciated.

Why was the sound of the jets (assuming that was what I heard when I went out, after the sonic boom) sounding slow moving?  I've been up the side of big hills when Typhoons buzz through the valley, as the noise "moves" fast.  The noise of these jets sounded like it wasn't "moving" that fast across the sky....    ....unless they were so far in the distance by then, the noise was just coming from the same direction?

Different sound frequency perhaps, but doesn't the sonic shock wave move with the aircraft whilst everything else is literally left in its wake

[Doctor Gollum]

A Canadair Dash8 on a delivery flight to darkest Africa with about 3 fuel stops apparently...

Large enough to be annoying but not large enough to make a big mess.

Plenty big enough to cause significant casualties if you crash it into (say) Brent cross, or a packed football/rugby stadium. They could also improve LHR T5 by crashing into and demolishing it. During the Olympics we had QRA Typhoons intercepting Robinson R22 helicopters down here when they encroached on the sailing events in Portland harbour.

Ultimatley it doesn't matter if you're an A380 or a R22. You follow the rules, and if intercepted do what the fighters say, otherwise your day will get worse.

Not disputing that, but it was probably being flown by the end user rather than a delivery crew from Canada, and whilst the rules should be the same globally, the interpretation and procedures can be somewhat variable.

However you spin it, one of those crashing, targeted or otherwise, is going to be much less of an event than a Korean Air Cargo 747 or similar. Like comparing a coach crash with a passenger train crash.

Nowhere to really shoot it down around Lundun either.

[LC0112G]

That's because this time they were quite low.

Thanks for the detailed explanation , much appreciated.

Why was the sound of the jets (assuming that was what I heard when I went out, after the sonic boom) sounding slow moving?  I've been up the side of big hills when Typhoons buzz through the valley, as the noise "moves" fast.  The noise of these jets sounded like it wasn't "moving" that fast across the sky....    ....unless they were so far in the distance by then, the noise was just coming from the same direction?

Not certain in this case, but when supersonic is authorised over land it's sometimes for just for one of the two QRA jets. That allows one of the jets to get into position quickly, whilst the other continues at subsonic speeds and arrives a few minutes later, but with a lot more fuel remaining.  So it's possible you heard the sonic boom from one jet, and then the 'normal' noise from the second jet.

Once the sonic boom has 'hit' you, you will continue to hear the jet as it heads away from you, and Mr Doppler says it will have a lower apparent frequency than a slower jet.

It appears the supersonic jet(s?) slowed down to subsonic as they crossed the M40 in the region of RAF Benson.

[LC0112G]

A Canadair Dash8 on a delivery flight to darkest Africa with about 3 fuel stops apparently...

Large enough to be annoying but not large enough to make a big mess.

Plenty big enough to cause significant casualties if you crash it into (say) Brent cross, or a packed football/rugby stadium. They could also improve LHR T5 by crashing into and demolishing it. During the Olympics we had QRA Typhoons intercepting Robinson R22 helicopters down here when they encroached on the sailing events in Portland harbour.

Ultimatley it doesn't matter if you're an A380 or a R22. You follow the rules, and if intercepted do what the fighters say, otherwise your day will get worse.

Not disputing that, but it was probably being flown by the end user rather than a delivery crew from Canada, and whilst the rules should be the same globally, the interpretation and procedures can be somewhat variable.

However you spin it, one of those crashing, targeted or otherwise, is going to be much less of an event than a Korean Air Cargo 747 or similar. Like comparing a coach crash with a passenger train crash.

Nowhere to really shoot it down around Lundun either.

The issue here is that it should have been going to Southend, which is east of London, and yet it somehow ended up west of London. Thats a big navigation error, and combined with loss of radio contact with ATC was always going end up with fighters on your tail. It was given the infamous "If you do not comply I am instructed by His Majesty's Government to shoot you down" command twice by the Typhoons on VHF Guard (121.5).

If you believe that it would not have been shot down due to it's location close to London, I'm afraid you're wrong. Perhaps pre 9/11, but not now. Attempting to go direct from LHR to Southend would take them right OTT central London. As it was they were ordered to turn north, and they passed over Northolt and Luton to Stansted.

[Doctor Gollum]

I never said they wouldn't shoot down a threat over Lundun, just that it wouldn't be ideal choice

[Marks DTM Calib]

Not certain in this case, but when supersonic is authorised over land it's sometimes for just for one of the two QRA jets. That allows one of the jets to get into position quickly, whilst the other continues at subsonic speeds and arrives a few minutes later, but with a lot more fuel remaining.  So it's possible you heard the sonic boom from one jet, and then the 'normal' noise from the second jet.

I did note that Brize threw a tanker up pretty quickly when the jets were scrambled

[Raeturbo]

Be prepared👍 comforting news that

[LC0112G]

Not certain in this case, but when supersonic is authorised over land it's sometimes for just for one of the two QRA jets. That allows one of the jets to get into position quickly, whilst the other continues at subsonic speeds and arrives a few minutes later, but with a lot more fuel remaining.  So it's possible you heard the sonic boom from one jet, and then the 'normal' noise from the second jet.

I did note that Brize threw a tanker up pretty quickly when the jets were scrambled

They always launch the "TANSOR" for a live QRA shout, assuming there isn't already a tanker airborne on training mission which can be diverted for the higher priority mission. They usually launch TANSOR for a practice shout too. It's quite often ZZ336, which is the specially painted "Boris 1" jet, because that sits on the ground waiting for its next VIP tasking, and so is 'available' for QRA shouts, whereas the others could be scheduled to go to Cyprus, the Falklands, or wherever.

Standard QRA procedure is to launch two Typhoons from either Coningsby (QRA-South) or Lossiemouth (QRA-North) and one Tanker (Tansor) from Brize. The tanker heads off to a suitable overwater refuelling area waiting for the Typhoons to show up. The two Typhoons then take turns shadowing the threat whilst the other goes off to the tanker for a top up. A single tanker can keep two Typhoons in the air for in excess of 10 hours if required.

Once the threat is over one Typhoon lands to be re-armed, serviced, refuelled, flush the loos, reload the egg sarnies etc, whilst the other stays airborne and alert with the tanker. Once the first jet is ready to resume QRA alert in it's shelter the second jet lands and is serviced in turn. This way there is always at least one armed jet ready to deal with a second 'threat' should there be two in close succession.

Finally, once the two QRA jets are back in their shelters and ready to go again if required, the Tanker pootles back to Brize for tea and medals.

The RAF/MOD never make it clear what the procedure is if more than 4 fighters (2 in Scotland, 2 in Lincolnsausageshire) are needed. Supposition is that the first 4 QRA jets are available in 15 minutes (typically more like 5 minutes) and another 4 can be generated in 30 minutes-1 hour. How that works in reality hasn't been tested recently though AFAIK. Can't see there being 8 pilots on duty on a bank holiday Sunday for instance.

[countrywoman]

Its surprising how far a sonic boom travels, when I lived just under the Malvern hills on the Worcestershire side like clockwork you could hear Concord giving it large over the Bristol channel.

[TheBoy]

Once the sonic boom has 'hit' you, you will continue to hear the jet as it heads away from you, and Mr Doppler says it will have a lower apparent frequency than a slower jet.

It appears the supersonic jet(s?) slowed down to subsonic as they crossed the M40 in the region of RAF Benson.

Ah, yes, doppler, that makes sense, thanks .


So doing a bit of schoolboy maths, and not taking into account scrambling and take off and getting up to full chat, but a Typhoon is capable of Mach2, so the Flatlands to Heathrow is possible in under 6 mins (again, assuming they were allowed and correct height to do Mach 2).  That's beyond pretty impressive.  I bet I can't get to my nearest curry house in town in 6 minutes, LOL.

I bet the pilots love getting the shout when they can give it large over land, that much be an experience.

[LC0112G]

Once the sonic boom has 'hit' you, you will continue to hear the jet as it heads away from you, and Mr Doppler says it will have a lower apparent frequency than a slower jet.

It appears the supersonic jet(s?) slowed down to subsonic as they crossed the M40 in the region of RAF Benson.

Ah, yes, doppler, that makes sense, thanks .


So doing a bit of schoolboy maths, and not taking into account scrambling and take off and getting up to full chat, but a Typhoon is capable of Mach2, so the Flatlands to Heathrow is possible in under 6 mins (again, assuming they were allowed and correct height to do Mach 2).  That's beyond pretty impressive.  I bet I can't get to my nearest curry house in town in 6 minutes, LOL.

I bet the pilots love getting the shout when they can give it large over land, that much be an experience.

Fast jets with supposed Mach2 capability are very rare. Yes they can do it 'clean' and at altitude, but once you hang fuel tanks and rockets on the wings the drag increases a lot then the max speed drops to more like Mach 1.5 above 20K feet. At sea level, very few fast jets can make much past Mach1 coz the air is so thick. It also burns shed loads of fuel, so when they arrive on the scene their loiter time isn't very good.

As for loving it, yes in training, low level high speed is popular. I've spoken to Tornado crews in Australia where they can do it over the Woomera ranges. They aren't usually cleared to go supersonic over land in the UK when intercepting foreign military threats (The Ruskies normally) because radars and other NATO countries see them coming, so they launch in plenty of time to intercept without requiring high speed dashes. Supersonic over land usually means a civil aircraft is not responsive. and on such a live QRA shout where there is a possibility (albeit remote) that you may be ordered to shoot down an airliner with 400 pax and crew, the feelings need to be much more professional considering what you may have to do when you get there.   

[Sir Tigger KC]

On my bucket list is to go and sit on that Welsh mountainside where you look down on the NATO jets flying through the valley below. 

[Raeturbo]

Went there last year Steve😎 if you want a heads up let me know it’s awesome but you are not actually  guaranteed to see anything