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Author Topic: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones  (Read 44952 times)

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Nick W

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #30 on: 05 April 2024, 22:47:49 »

Can't help with the ride height as my car is long gone, but the new springs and uncompressed top-mounts raised the front of my car 30mm. The new rear springs didn't change the ride height as my self-levelling was working correctly, but the pump hardly ever needed to run instead of nearly every time the car was started. Overall ride improved from an wallowy, uncontrolled mess, to comfortable with similar differences in the handling.


I've fitted new springs and shocks to many of the cars I've owned in the last 35 years, and have never regretted any of them.


The poly bushes are a hand-tight push fit once you've removed the originals. That is quick and easy with a suitable tool, or dirty and longwinded butchery without. There isn't a downside to them as the factory bushes are a normal service item, and need to be fitted correctly which often doesn't happen. Here's the tool I made for the job:



and just after removing the bush:


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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #31 on: 05 April 2024, 23:38:30 »

720mm from ground to centre of wheel arch from memory.
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #32 on: 05 April 2024, 23:44:18 »

The self leveling shocks firm up the rear end so GM fit softer springs to compensate.

The result will be akin to driving an old Cadillac and it won't help the life expectancy of the new shocks.

The front springs are the same for each engine type but there are variations according to the model... ie police/sport/mv6/Elite.
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Jim82

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #33 on: 06 April 2024, 09:53:37 »

The self leveling shocks firm up the rear end so GM fit softer springs to compensate.

The result will be akin to driving an old Cadillac and it won't help the life expectancy of the new shocks.

The front springs are the same for each engine type but there are variations according to the model... ie police/sport/mv6/Elite.

Found this on 7Zap which suggests the LR springs I have fitted are for "lowered sports chassis" (MV6?) "with towbar".

SPRING,ASSY.,REAR,IDENT LR (SET) (USED WITH LOWERED SPORTS CHASSIS) (USED WITH REMOVABLE TOWING ATTACHMENT) (PRODUCTION NO. 90539143)

Wondering if these were fitted from another car when the self leveling shocks were removed.  It certainly doesn't ride like an old Cadillac (I have one of those too!) so maybe they were fitted as a compromise. I believe self levelling suspension was available on MV6s but as a cost option, so if these are MV6 springs they are likely to be from a car without it.  I don't particularly want the car to sit low though, especially if I renew the front suspension and raise the height at the front.
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Jim82

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #34 on: 09 April 2024, 11:44:51 »

Does anyone have a recommendation for the poly bushes for the front wishbones? I've seen Powerflex mentioned but Strongflex bushes are a bit cheaper..
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #35 on: 09 April 2024, 12:52:39 »

Only ever used Poweflex, and to good effect, so no reason to recommend an unknown based on price.
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #36 on: 09 April 2024, 21:45:15 »

Powerflex...  Drill old ones out, then cut the metal holder being careful not to slice the wishbone, remove old ball joints, bolt new ones on, remove rear bush same process as front, and replace with new rubber bush.
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Jim82

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #37 on: 11 April 2024, 10:15:04 »

Powerflex...  Drill old ones out, then cut the metal holder being careful not to slice the wishbone, remove old ball joints, bolt new ones on, remove rear bush same process as front, and replace with new rubber bush.

Thanks, have ordered the Powerflex ones now :y
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Migv6 le Frog Fan

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #38 on: 11 April 2024, 10:42:16 »

I wouldnt just replace the balljoints (like I did). I found out after I did it that the balljoints actually dont tend to wear out, so if they aint broke dont fix them.
Rear bushes (if still readily available?) need pressing out  / in. It helps to put the new bushes in the freezer overnight, and gently heat the area of the arm they go into, just before fitting.
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cam.in.head

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #39 on: 11 April 2024, 11:29:31 »

yes i would agree with that . the original balljoints are usually long lasting and good quality . if there is still a degree of stiffness in their movement i would just carefully examine the boot and regrease . some aftermarket stuff doesnt last long !
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TheBoy

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #40 on: 11 April 2024, 11:59:48 »

I'm the same with balljoints, only replace if necessary.  The originals usually last the life of the car TBH. The pattern ones are shite.  The ones ATP use are shite from the beginning ;D
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #41 on: 12 April 2024, 05:40:29 »

I'm the same with balljoints, only replace if necessary.  The originals usually last the life of the car TBH. The pattern ones are shite.  The ones ATP use are shite from the beginning ;D
The 'life' of the car being 100k ish...

Once you replace the ball joints, it becomes a bolt on serviceable part.

Yes the ATEC arms from ATP are cheap and cheerful, but with the poly bush mod they are a cost effective solution. Especially when you consider that the genuine arms each cost more than a scrap Omega. Even refurbishing the factory arms with genuine VX/GM parts costs far more than the ATP wishbones.

An alternative approach would be to treat the ATP arms as disposable but keep the original GM arms and refurbish them with genuine bushes/ball joints and probably Poly bush the fronts ready for when the ATP ones fail. And that of course presumes the wishbones are the ones it left the factory with... Which is highly unlikely.

At the end of the day, what works for one won't always work for someone else.

Speaking personally, I have fitted ATP arms to my own cars and have always found them to out perform their price point.
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TheBoy

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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #42 on: 12 April 2024, 14:30:17 »

I'm the same with balljoints, only replace if necessary.  The originals usually last the life of the car TBH. The pattern ones are shite.  The ones ATP use are shite from the beginning ;D
The 'life' of the car being 100k ish...
The GM balljoints last far longer.  On all my Omegas, I only ever had 1 (genuine GM) get any play.  "I" (well, Gixer, as he has a press ;D) used to press in a new genuine GM rearward bush (fronts always poly'd) and pop it back on (or in my case, we always had a spare set already done, so could just replace the wishbone and the removed ones could be refurbed at leisure, and put into spares stock.

Yes the ATEC arms from ATP are cheap and cheerful, but with the poly bush mod they are a cost effective solution. Especially when you consider that the genuine arms each cost more than a scrap Omega. Even refurbishing the factory arms with genuine VX/GM parts costs far more than the ATP wishbones.
I think Chris and I were paying 14 per side, for the rearward bush.  Suspect thats far more cost effective that a new pattern wishbone that doesn't really last

Speaking personally, I have fitted ATP arms to my own cars and have always found them to out perform their price point.
They do seem to have a short life compared to what I used to use (completely ignoring fornt bush, as thats irrelevant, obviously)


For anyone already on pattern wishbones, the economics change though, as genuine wishbones are probably outrageously priced.
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #43 on: 12 April 2024, 15:29:35 »

I'm the same with balljoints, only replace if necessary.  The originals usually last the life of the car TBH. The pattern ones are shite.  The ones ATP use are shite from the beginning ;D
The 'life' of the car being 100k ish...
The GM balljoints last far longer.  On all my Omegas, I only ever had 1 (genuine GM) get any play.  "I" (well, Gixer, as he has a press ;D) used to press in a new genuine GM rearward bush (fronts always poly'd) and pop it back on (or in my case, we always had a spare set already done, so could just replace the wishbone and the removed ones could be refurbed at leisure, and put into spares stock.

I found out by trial and error that Genuine GM rear bushes can move when pressed into Lemforder wishbones, therefore the only option inmho is to refurbish genuine GM wishbones or just buy new Lemforder wishbones and swap the front for Poly from new.

Yes the ATEC arms from ATP are cheap and cheerful, but with the poly bush mod they are a cost effective solution. Especially when you consider that the genuine arms each cost more than a scrap Omega. Even refurbishing the factory arms with genuine VX/GM parts costs far more than the ATP wishbones.
I think Chris and I were paying 14 per side, for the rearward bush.  Suspect thats far more cost effective that a new pattern wishbone that doesn't really last
Speaking personally, I have fitted ATP arms to my own cars and have always found them to out perform their price point.
They do seem to have a short life compared to what I used to use (completely ignoring fornt bush, as thats irrelevant, obviously)

For anyone already on pattern wishbones, the economics change though, as genuine wishbones are probably outrageously priced.

I did buy a job lot of genuine GM rear bushes very cheaply, still got a couple I think, but as above, had issues with them in 3rd party wishbones.
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Re: Micksgarage and cheap wishbones
« Reply #44 on: 14 April 2024, 20:43:16 »

Yeah, worth keeping the GM wishbones for that very reason.
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