Topic: dying tractor (Read 2445 times)

dieseldean · « **on:** 25 October 2008, 13:31:42 »

2.5td with eml light on.
drives like its being starved of fuel, but kicking out grey smoke rich in the smell of dirty unburnt diesel.
paperclip test is now showing;
17 fuel temperature voltage high
41 boost pressure voltage low
43 invalid boost pressure
81 sensor injection start short or open circuit
92 cruise control device circuit open or voltage high

92 always shows as no fitted with cruise control indicator stalk anyway

81 is my main concern as it shown a couple of days ago and the other numbers have only appeared today when looking under bonnet to find what produces code 81 and how to put it right.
is my fuel pump dying

Seth · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 October 2008, 14:22:58 »

I had this problem earlier in the year ....

'81' is No.4 injector at fault - or, if you're very lucky, it's associated wiring/connector, which is easier to access by removing the inlet manifold. This injector incorporates a 'start of injection' sensor.

Very carefully check the wiring and connector first, but in my case it was the injector at fault - at a cost of around 300 quid from memory.

The symptoms were exactly the same as you describe - it felt as though it permanently had two 'tractors' in tow ..... !

Omegatoy · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 October 2008, 18:03:10 »

first thing i would change is the pipe from i9nlet manifold to boost sensor it sounds like its split which wuld give most of these faults as the pump would still be throwing the fuel in!!

Seth · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 October 2008, 10:12:25 »

Where exactly is this pipe located?
Is it one of the two small-bore pipes on the underside of the manifold?
Boost sensor? ..... where is this located?
Cheers, as I'll also take a look at mine.

Omegatoy · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 October 2008, 13:37:59 »

YEP ONE of them goes to boost sensor up on inner wing and other goes to....................................................................................................................................................... AHEM tapping fingers while the brain is on a go slow and i cant remember!!! doh

:-/

Seth · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 October 2008, 13:40:31 »

Is this the gubbins with a glass-topped filter thingy? ...... as I've been wondering what this unit actually is.

Omegatoy · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 October 2008, 16:56:08 »

Quote

Is this the gubbins with a glass-topped filter thingy? ...... as I've been wondering what this unit actually is.

nope thats the breather i believe? the bboost sensor has a wiring connection on one end and the vac pipe goes to the other end

dieseldean · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 October 2008, 17:04:12 »

only things left to check much to my fear of a huge cost is the injectors and pump. slack off injector pipes whilst engine is running and air bubbles come out with the fuel. have replaced filter housing and the sender unit and pump in fuel tank and blown compressed air through fuel lines to clear them.
only getting two codes now 81 sensor injection start short or open circuit. 92 cruise control device circuit open or voltage high
next step is to remove injectors and have them checked.

TheBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 October 2008, 19:30:43 »

the 81 - check wiring on that injector no 4 - wiring probably damaged. Repair as best you can

Seth · « **Reply #9 on:** 27 October 2008, 00:08:33 »

Yep Dean - got to agree with TheBoy.

I'm pretty sure that your problem is the No.4 injector and/or it's associated wiring/connector.
Any half decent fuel-injection specialist will quickly confirm/eliminate.
It doesn't sound like your injection pump is at fault - get the tractor to the injection people 'as is' - don't go any further until they confirm.

TheBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 October 2008, 07:35:05 »

A visual check of wire coming off injector will likely show damage. Just repair it.

dieseldean · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 October 2008, 18:32:39 »

i,m travelling to work in the tractor at snail pace apart from carboning up the valves and clogging up the cat am i doing any serious damage or is ecu cutting power to prevent damage.

dieseldean · « **Reply #12 on:** 01 November 2008, 19:49:43 »

where the wire from injector 4 plugs in i get no live feed from either connection but get earth feed from 1 of the 2.
looks like i start bigger investigation of wiring tommorrow.
the fact that when i crack off the feed to any of 6 injectors i get bubbles instead os neat fuel puts fear in me about state of pump

Seth · « **Reply #13 on:** 01 November 2008, 20:17:01 »

Dean,
I still reckon on that No.4 injector/associated wiring being the culprit.

Although you say that you've got aerated fuel from the injector pipes when slackened, it's likely that the dreaded code 64 would have been thrown if the injection pump is at fault.
Code 81 still points to a 'start of injection' sensor fault, (ie No.4 injector etc.), as above.

dieseldean · « **Reply #14 on:** 01 November 2008, 22:08:24 »

can't get a live from plug that injector 4 is plugged into, but get an earth from 1 of 2 terminals. tommorrow will have to investigate where it is fed from. the plastic box where they meet and the glow plugs are fed from is an awkward place to get to. so will replace glow plugs while i'm at it and will have less chance of needing to access it again once (eventually) it's cured

TheBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** 01 November 2008, 22:42:41 »

Quote

can't get a live from plug that injector 4 is plugged into, but get an earth from 1 of 2 terminals. tommorrow will have to investigate where it is fed from. the plastic box where they meet and the glow plugs are fed from is an awkward place to get to. so will replace glow plugs while i'm at it and will have less chance of needing to access it again once (eventually) it's cured

Its a needle sensor, so that is probably correct

dieseldean · « **Reply #16 on:** 01 November 2008, 22:50:15 »

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Quote
can't get a live from plug that injector 4 is plugged into, but get an earth from 1 of 2 terminals. tommorrow will have to investigate where it is fed from. the plastic box where they meet and the glow plugs are fed from is an awkward place to get to. so will replace glow plugs while i'm at it and will have less chance of needing to access it again once (eventually) it's cured
Its a needle sensor, so that is probably correct

will try for live at plug for wire to no 4 injector with engine running before having to dig out that plastic thingy full of wires

TheBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** 01 November 2008, 22:58:04 »

Quote

Quote
Quote
can't get a live from plug that injector 4 is plugged into, but get an earth from 1 of 2 terminals. tommorrow will have to investigate where it is fed from. the plastic box where they meet and the glow plugs are fed from is an awkward place to get to. so will replace glow plugs while i'm at it and will have less chance of needing to access it again once (eventually) it's cured
Its a needle sensor, so that is probably correct
will try for live at plug for wire to no 4 injector with engine running before having to dig out that plastic thingy full of wires

Why do you think there should be a 12v there? It can easily be 0v instead :-/

dieseldean · « **Reply #18 on:** 01 November 2008, 23:09:48 »

for this my only alternative seems to be replace injector4 or find money and send car to specialist. which will probably cost more than paid for car so i may be looking for a 3rd tractor to fill my driveway.

TheBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** 01 November 2008, 23:12:46 »

given you have air in fuel, that needs to be resolved. presumably you tried full bleed?

dieseldean · « **Reply #20 on:** 01 November 2008, 23:29:08 »

fully bled from tank to pump inlet.
last weekend i replaced sender/pump unit in tank flushed fuel lines upto filter with compresssed air and then flushed with compressedair from pump back upto filter, relaced filter housing fitted new filter and filled filter with diesel magic to clear pump and injectors.
that was basic old school stuff, but my problems seem to be too technical for me.
i think air must be coming to injectors from fuel pump itself

Seth · « **Reply #21 on:** 02 November 2008, 10:12:31 »

Quote

for this my only alternative seems to be replace injector4 or find money and send car to specialist. which will probably cost more than paid for car so i may be looking for a 3rd tractor to fill my driveway.

Stating the obvious Dean.....
Why not try swopping No4 injector from your other tractor?

dieseldean · « **Reply #22 on:** 02 November 2008, 10:42:57 »

engine already sold from the old tractor

TheBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** 02 November 2008, 12:27:43 »

The plug on the injector varied between U25TD and X25DT engines as well.

dieseldean · « **Reply #24 on:** 02 November 2008, 22:23:29 »

has anyone reading this thread got an injector no 4 to try or even sell me. can't pay £300ish for a new 1 cos i gotta payout about that to put my front suspension and steering right and the untidy bodywork. looks like i'm on market for another tractor and this one joining my other miggy in the driveway graveyard.

:-/

unlucky alf · « **Reply #25 on:** 02 November 2008, 23:04:31 »

dont suppose there is anyone on ebay breaking a diesel? are these no4 injectors used on anything else?, as im fairly local to you dean if i find anything or hear of anything i`ll give you the nod, is it definately that injector then & if so how easy is it to get out, i could do with a t/converter & b/housing so i will be looking out for one being broken or complete anyway,,,,good luck

Pitchfork · « **Reply #26 on:** 03 November 2008, 09:11:02 »

I've got a set of 6 injectors which were checked out by the Bosch agent in Newbury as OK

dieseldean · « **Reply #27 on:** 06 November 2008, 20:16:16 »

:ya great big thank you to pitchfork for going out of his way to supply me some injectors

will post my cars health as soon as i can find a deep 27mm 12 pointed socket so i can get them injectors changed

markey mark · « **Reply #28 on:** 06 November 2008, 20:19:25 »

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:ya great big thank you to pitchfork for going out of his way to supply me some injectors

will post my cars health as soon as i can find a deep 27mm 12 pointed socket so i can get them injectors changed

i have a injector socket 27mm deep bud !!

dieseldean · « **Reply #29 on:** 06 November 2008, 20:47:47 »

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Quote
:ya great big thank you to pitchfork for going out of his way to supply me some injectors

will post my cars health as soon as i can find a deep 27mm 12 pointed socket so i can get them injectors changed

i have a injector socket 27mm deep bud !!

pm sent

dieseldean · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 November 2008, 23:35:06 »

replaced injectors today and still no joy

(but a little less smoke)
now get code61 as well as still the horrible code81.
i now seriously think the injector pump is at fault but got mate having 1 last tech 2 check tommorrow before i have to take off that fiddly bolted inlet manifold yet again.

dieseldean · « **Reply #31 on:** 09 November 2008, 21:32:55 »

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replaced injectors today and still no joy (but a little less smoke)
now get code61 as well as still the horrible code81.
i now seriously think the injector pump is at fault but got mate having 1 last tech 2 check tommorrow before i have to take off that fiddly bolted inlet manifold yet again.

wasn't a tech2 used it was a snap on modus and i,m still left with a dying tractor.
injector4 is sending a signal so what else can produce code81.

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Author Topic: dying tractor (Read 2445 times)