Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Migalot on 29 April 2022, 19:59:08

Title: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 29 April 2022, 19:59:08
As per subject line, I have a 2.6V^ auto with  error code 1700 which is a transmission fault, I think.

SWMBO used the car during the week for a longish, uneventful drive. When I went to move it yesterday, I got the dreaded engine warning light up. I turned everything off and a few goes later, the engine light went out and I re-parked the car. Today, I jumped in to go to the shops and was unable to get the light out and it appears to be in limp mode. Called the AA and the man got the 1700 code through the pedal test (his OBD reader wouldn't recognise the car!!).

The car has done 82k miles from new and had the transmission oil and filter changed aboout 15k miles ago.

Any ideas what the fault could be? Seems a bit terminal to me.  :'( :'( 
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 29 April 2022, 20:22:23
If it were a 2.2 I would instantly say Cam Sensor.

However, the V6 tends to accurately report the Cam Sensor.

Any recent work done?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 29 April 2022, 20:43:06
If it were a 2.2 I would instantly say Cam Sensor.

However, the V6 tends to accurately report the Cam Sensor.

Any recent work done?

No, none. I forgot to mention that it (the engine light) has happened once or twice during the last six months – on both occasions when driving off after starting.

Is there a gearbox sensor that could be faulty?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 30 April 2022, 07:29:05
Anything going strange with the gearshift lights?

I don't know much about autos but could be something loose or broken underneath, connection wise...
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Andy H on 30 April 2022, 08:48:35
If you have an Android phone I suggest that you pay £15 for a Bluetooth OBD adapter & download the Scanmyopel app (I think it was £7 for the full version when I downloaded it). Scanmyopel can read codes and live data from the engine, gearbox & ABS/TC ECUs.

The most common cause of gearbox codes are the selector switch or failed gear change solenoids.

Auto gearbox selector switch removal and cleaning  (https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.msg1155646;topicseen#msg1155646)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 10:54:57
If you have an Android phone I suggest that you pay £15 for a Bluetooth OBD adapter & download the Scanmyopel app (I think it was £7 for the full version when I downloaded it). Scanmyopel can read codes and live data from the engine, gearbox & ABS/TC ECUs.

The most common cause of gearbox codes are the selector switch or failed gear change solenoids.

Auto gearbox selector switch removal and cleaning  (https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.msg1155646;topicseen#msg1155646)

Thanks for that tip.  :y

I have found this and eurocarparts are just 10 minutes away.

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/streetwize-obdii-code-reader-for-android-and-ios-553999810 (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/streetwize-obdii-code-reader-for-android-and-ios-553999810)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 12:39:28
So, thanks to the advice on here, I got an OBD reader and downloaded the scanmyopel app.  :y

I have the results and just need some kind member to interpret them:

P1605-08
Unknown Error

P0722-04
Output Speed Sensor Circuit No Signal

P0753-02
Shift Solenoid A (1-2/3-4 Shift) Circuit Low Input

P0000-00
Unknown Error

P0758-02
Shift Solenoid B (2-3 Shift) Circuit Low Input

P1500-08
Internal Power Control Final Stage Watchdog Error

P1625-02
Internal Power Control Final Stage Low Input


Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 April 2022, 12:54:22
How does the car drive? Does the gearbox shift as expected?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 13:19:21
I haven't tried driving it for fear of damaging the transmission. Moving back and forth, it selects Drive and Reverse OK.
I live on top of a hill, so don't want to risk getting stranded!

Could it be a relay fault?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 15:34:11
Browsing online, I'm beginning to think it needs a new transmission inhibitor switch.
 >:(
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 16:03:30
I'd never heard of an inhibitor switch before, but checking out images online it looks like the gear selector switch. Is that right?? Could be that AndyH was on the right track!

Anyway, if it is the same, I suddenly remembered that I had one from my previous pre-facelift 2.5 in my shed. I've dug it out and wondered whether it would work on my 2.6?

Can anyone confirm? I think the part number is 1 348 06248A.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 30 April 2022, 17:34:15
It's the same gearbox  :y if you have one it's worth a try and report back.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 30 April 2022, 19:51:59
It's the same gearbox  :y if you have one it's worth a try and report back.

Will do, Doc!  :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: biggriffin on 01 May 2022, 08:31:59
Just clean the selector mechanism, there's a guide.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Andy H on 01 May 2022, 09:59:43
Just clean the selector mechanism, there's a guide.
Auto gearbox selector switch removal and cleaning  (https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.msg1155646;topicseen#msg1155646)
It isn't a complete guide - I grabbed the images from peoples posts when they were grappling with selector switch problems.

The first task is to check that the indicator lights on the gear selector console match the position of the lever. Clear the codes and see if any reappear.

If it is the switch at fault then you should be able to take it apart and clean/regrease it. the fun part will be getting to it  ::)

and adjusting it correctly when you refit ......
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 01 May 2022, 12:40:03
Just clean the selector mechanism, there's a guide.
Auto gearbox selector switch removal and cleaning  (https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90673.msg1155646;topicseen#msg1155646)
It isn't a complete guide - I grabbed the images from peoples posts when they were grappling with selector switch problems.

The first task is to check that the indicator lights on the gear selector console match the position of the lever. Clear the codes and see if any reappear.

If it is the switch at fault then you should be able to take it apart and clean/regrease it. the fun part will be getting to it  ::)

Thanks Andy.  :y

Cleaned the donor switch last night and just jacked the car up, handbrake on , in neutral and...it's started raining. >:(

I've come in to dry off a bit and will continue a bit later. The only thing I'm not looking forward to locating the end of the connector!

Will report back!

and adjusting it correctly when you refit ......
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 01 May 2022, 14:46:46
About to abandon this job for today, I'm just so frustrated.

I have the car jacked up and axle stands and have wiggled my way under from the side. I undid the first 10mm bolt and thought I was making good progress, but then I came to the second and have spent an hour trying to get a socket on it. Apart from not being able to see it, the heat shields are making it nigh-on impossible to get my hand up to locate the socket on the bolt. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to remove the gear shift cover inside??

Nightmare... >:( 
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 May 2022, 16:58:21
Ratchet spanner?

Selector switch removal is 100% under the car...
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 01 May 2022, 17:06:05
Ratchet spanner?

Selector switch removal is 100% under the car...

Thanks for that confirmation. Clearly, I just need to persevere. ;D

Sadly, though, I don't have a ratchet spanner. Will have to make do with a socket, but finding it very hard to locate the bolt!

Job completion now postponed until tomorrow. Hopefully, it will be drier and brighter.  ;)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 01 May 2022, 19:30:46
A normal ring spanner will suffice, but obviously might take a while  :D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 01 May 2022, 19:39:48
A normal ring spanner will suffice, but obviously might take a while  :D

Thanks again for your help. Genuinely appreciate it. Apart from being very tired after a stressful week and trying to rush the job, I know realise that I was a bit disorientated under the car and was looking in the wrong place for that bolt. Figured that out later when I lined up the donor part.  :-[

Tomorrow should mean a fresh start and a clear mind. :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 01:07:54
Pays to take a step back every so often  :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 02 May 2022, 14:55:34
OK, so I've finally managed to undo the bolts and slide the selector off, but how do you get to reach the connector? It seems to be surrounded by heat shield. Possible to reach down from the engine???
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 16:31:27
There's a curved bracket iirc. The connector is at the end of this.

Possibly a locking tail to pull out then the connector unplugs like a regular one. It's a fairly chunky plug though, so might take some jiggling.

You can unplug it from above. Once you have removed the engine ;D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 02 May 2022, 16:35:20
A 'locking tail'?

 ???
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 16:39:31
A loop of plastic that stops the clip being pressed to release it ;)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 02 May 2022, 16:43:27
A loop of plastic that stops the clip being pressed to release it ;)

LIke a cable tie?

Either way, I can't even see the connector body, let alone grab hold of it with something.

Other must have had a similar problem, yet can seemingly swap a switch over in an hour or two!
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 17:23:48
It's a nut, two bolts and a plug. The hour comes from access issues.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 02 May 2022, 18:03:12
It's a nut, two bolts and a plug. The hour comes from access issues.

Indeed. Not being a double-jointed octopus, I am thinking I might need to get a mobile mechanic out.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 18:29:35
It could be that the loom is snagged on the heat shield as it kicks up the fire wall.

Assuming that the selector switch is otherwise free, support it with one hand and push the plug up and towards the gearbox with the other.

Then with both hands pull it back along the shoulder of the gearbox...

Should free it some ;)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 02 May 2022, 19:28:01
Thanks. So what you're saying is that once the loom is unsnagged/freer, it should be possible to ease it free enough to be able to actually see the connector?  ???
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 02 May 2022, 20:43:54
Zackly :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 04 May 2022, 12:08:19
Update.
I will have to abandon this job. Sliding down a kerb and pulling myself under the car (on axle stands), plus the usual twisting and stretching for tools meant that, when I woke up on Tuesday, the upper right-side of my back was so painful I could barely take a deep breath. It seems a tad worse this morning.

I very much doubt if I will be fit enough anytime soon to carry on and I want the car back on the road!

I'm going to try and find a mobile mechanic to finish off.

That said, if anyone on here fancies a trip to the London/Herts border, I shall pay handsomely!!

Maybe at the tender age of 69, I should accept that under-car work is in the past.  ;D ;D 
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: cam.in.head on 04 May 2022, 17:07:50
hopefully you will find a local member on here who can do it for you.i very much doubt that a mobile mechanic will have any idea how to do it !
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 04 May 2022, 18:58:49
hopefully you will find a local member on here who can do it for you.i very much doubt that a mobile mechanic will have any idea how to do it !

That's my only concern. :(

Trouble is most OOF members live up North.  ;D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 04 May 2022, 20:07:30
Willing to pay fuel costs and £40-50 per hour if anyone's interested. :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 May 2022, 22:44:34
If I had the time, I would, but have alot going on at the moment  :-\

Might be worth dropping Nick W a pm :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Andy H on 05 May 2022, 09:50:10
If I had the time, I would, but have alot going on at the moment  :-\

Might be worth dropping Nick W a pm :y
JamesV6CDX (https://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5519) has form for helping Omegas in distress  :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 05 May 2022, 11:40:31
Thanks Doc and Andy. PMs sent. :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 May 2022, 18:35:50
More than happy to help out.

What are you up to Monday or Tuesday? :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 05 May 2022, 18:40:35
More than happy to help out.

What are you up to Monday or Tuesday? :y

Thanks James. Did you get my PM?

I'll be at home on both days!  :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 05 May 2022, 18:42:27
More than happy to help out.

What are you up to Monday or Tuesday? :y

Thanks James. Did you get my PM?

I'll be at home on both days!  :y

PM sent :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 08 May 2022, 16:36:08
Help!

James V6CDX is due to come and help me out tomorrow or Tuesday and we have exchanged a couple of PMs. However, when I just tried to send him my mobile number and address, it wouldn't send as his inbox is full.

Could some kindly Admin email him and ask him to empty it?

Thanks in advance.

 
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 May 2022, 14:30:59
Sorted and PM incoming :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 11 May 2022, 15:41:49
Many thanks to James for travelling down here today. Great chap, incredibly helpful. :y

Unfortunately, the selector switch change did not cure the problem.  :'(

He will post on here this evening and reveal his thoughts...
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 May 2022, 18:47:08
Hi Everyone,

Just got back - good to meet you Nick!

Having had a good look over this car today, I wanted to share our findings (and lack of findings) in relation to this, and see if people agree with my line of thinking, or have any other suggestions, based on this update, on where we go next.

The symptoms / complaint have already been described on this thread, so I won't repeat that.

So, first job, was to finish over changing the selector switch. After partially removing the heatshields, I was able to get to the electrical connector for the selector switch, and change it over. The replacement certainly looked clean, and okay.

After installing the switch, I started up the car, and made sure it's aligned correctly. I am sure it is - I say this because the car only starts in P or N, and the relevant lights illuminate next to each gear - without the "multi light" display that's usually attributable to a buggered selector switch.

I noticed the engine light was on (the spanner symbol), so using "Scan My Opel", read the fault codes.

They were:

P1625-02: Internal Power Control Final Stage Low Input.

P0748 -06: Unknown Error

I stopped the engine, and put the ignition switch to "on" but not started (so the dash lights up). I then cleared the codes. The codes momentarily cleared, but, then came straight - and the warning light was back on within seconds. It was the exact same two codes, which returned.

I double checked the selector switch fitment / connections, which were okay, and tried aqain. Codes kept returning.

Given these same codes were also present prior to me arriving, and with the old selector switch fitted - I think we can safely say that sadly this isn't a selector switch problem, but something more complex than first thought. The same codes are returning, regardless of which switch is fitted.

At this point, I decided to check the electricals as thoroughly as one can, given today's rain! I dis-assembled, checked, and re-seated the three large round loom plugs near the battery tray. I also removed, checked, and cleaned the earths. In addition, I visually checked, and removed / reseated the round loom connector, which plugs into the passenger side of the autobox.

What I think is noteworthy, is that the fault codes are persistent, in that they come back immediately after being cleared, even without the engine being started. This, to me, is indicative of an electrical, rather than a mechanical fault. But, I am starting to think the fault is with the electrics inside the box itself, not within the loom / ECU, which is all in good visual condition.

I also tried my code reader - this only came up with one of the codes - the P1625, however, mine described the fault as "TCM Flash Checksum Fault (Saturn)".

I don't for a minute think the gearbox ECU is faulty - I have never, ever seen any ECU fail on an Omega (aside of the ABS ones), and I think the code is more likely a result of something else. I don't subscribe to "the fault code says it's xyz, because we all know the codes can arise from some other input error, somewhere else. But - for completeness, I tried a known good ECU that Nick had spare. Same part number. I installed this, cleared out the codes, and - you guessed it - the same two came back. So, I think on this basis, we can preclude any form of gearbox
ECU problem.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 May 2022, 18:48:13


On a road test - the car is stuck in top gear (as per full limp mode), but will drive manually through the gears. However - the manual changes are rough - going slowly from 1st to second results in a noticable "thump". This was reminiscent of thrust washer failure symptoms, if anyone remembers sassanach's insightful posts around this. I would have liked to have dropped the sump to confirm if any remains are present, however, the rain at this point was torrential and it wasn't feasible today.

The factors leaning away from thrust washer, are, they rarely fail on unmodified 2.5 / 2.6 engines with AR25 boxes, in my experience (although not impossible). And also, the car was reported to have been driving fine, until the light suddenly appeared from nowhere after a restart.

We can preclude low fluid level or poor fluid - as, the fault code returns even with the engine off (when there is no pressure / ATF being pumped) and therefore the solenoids are not operating.

As an aside - I always subscribe to the "fix any known issues first". When told the car had a recent battery blip, I fitted / tried Nick's new battery, but this made no odds.

In live data, the battery voltage (given by both the gearbox ECU and engine ECU) is over 14v (14.7 IIRC). It did cross my mind "is this too high", and made me wonder if an over-zealous alternator might be playing a part. The alternator looked new, and pattern - although it has been on the car for at least a couple of years, I believe, without there ever being an issue. And also, I am not sure how a too high voltage would result in numerous "low power" codes. Additionally, the alternator doesn't give power when the engine isn't running, and the fault returns in that environment - so thinking about it I don't think the alternator / over volts is a contender.

When doing a bit of research into the fault code, the Scan My Opel App describes it as:

"Final stage diagnosis in control unit. Short to ground in circuit to control unit terminal 52, 5

Above Condition must be fulfilled for at least 0.02s. Effect - Emergency mode is activated, The malfunction indication is switched on. Concerned Terminals, 52, 5. If anyone has a wiring diagram, and can shed any insight on this, it's likely to be beneficial.

I am personally leaning towards a failure inside the box, but, I don't want to condemn it without sleeping on it and thinking it through a bit more - and bouncing ideas around on here. I find it interesting that at around 70k, the box had solenoids and new ATF - can you recall nick, what prompted this work, was there a symptom/fault or something not right?

We would both be very grateful for any opinions. We are going to fix this OOF style - even if it does ultimately need a second hand 'box. The only difference being, it would probably take me a day now (with lifting help) not four hours like when I was back in my prime :D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 May 2022, 18:50:26
This Omega is a lovely example, free of the usual arch-rot, I would really like to get it back to it's old-self :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 11 May 2022, 19:03:48
I find it interesting that at around 70k, the box had solenoids and new ATF - can you recall nick, what prompted this work, was there a symptom/fault or something not right?

Thanks again, James. Great to meet you!

The 2/3 solenoid was replaced as, intermittently, the car would kick like donkey going from 2 to 3 and the spanner light would come on. I was able to overcome this by turning the ignition off and restarting, after which the spanner light would go out.

Cured once the new solenoid was installed (and refilled with new Dexron and filter)

Nick
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 May 2022, 19:13:49
I find it interesting that at around 70k, the box had solenoids and new ATF - can you recall nick, what prompted this work, was there a symptom/fault or something not right?

Thanks again, James. Great to meet you!

The 2/3 solenoid was replaced as, intermittently, the car would kick like donkey going from 2 to 3 and the spanner light would come on. I was able to overcome this by turning the ignition off and restarting, after which the spanner light would go out.

Cured once the new solenoid was installed (and refilled with new Dexron and filter)

Nick

Ta - I'm sure you did say, just my memory!

Be positive - OOF is a great resource, and we WILL sort this :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 11 May 2022, 19:15:45
Fluid level/condition is about the last gearbox check.

Beyond that, cam sensor, on a hunch... (it causes similar apparent symptoms with the 2.2)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301655465678 I know this one is used, but it should be more reliable than a cheapy aftermarket one for testing purposes  ;)

Takes about 30 seconds to swap out  :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 May 2022, 19:25:31
Thanks DG,

Engine revs freely and no cam sensor codes. I'd be surprised, as they are very robust on these. I wouldn't have thought if it were the cam sensor, it would cause (low voltage / short) codes to appear, though, when the engine isn't even running? Being a hall-effect sensor, the cam sensor won't even give any input, with just the ignition on? :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 May 2022, 02:10:38
On the 2.2 it gives the dreaded P1700 (replace gearbox) code along with the light, V6 should give a cam sensor code but in the absence of anything obvious wrong with the gearbox... :-\

That said, any evidence of moisture/wiring damage around the gearbox ecu (right hand kick panel)?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: grifter on 12 May 2022, 06:02:11
Haven't had a wee mouse in there nibbling some of the wires? I always wonder if that is likely the cause with these strange problems.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 May 2022, 12:09:31
On the 2.2 it gives the dreaded P1700 (replace gearbox) code along with the light, V6 should give a cam sensor code but in the absence of anything obvious wrong with the gearbox... :-\

That said, any evidence of moisture/wiring damage around the gearbox ecu (right hand kick panel)?

None at all. Wiring and ECU area bone dry and it all looks as new up there.

I agree a cam sensor can throw a 1700. But 1700 is just a generic engine ECU code to tell us that the transmission ECU has also logged DTC(s). The P1625 (low power) code, I am convinced, wouldn’t arise from a faulty hall sensor.

I’d love to be proven wrong, but I just can’t see it being that :(

For elimination purposes we can study the wiring diagrams and see if we can do some continuity testing between the relevant ECU pins and gearbox multiplug. But I’m still leaning towards the box being shagged. Especially given the nasty thump on changing :y

Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 12 May 2022, 15:57:55
I've taken a punt and ordered a cam sensor. With a bit of luck it will be here tomorrow, though I may have missed the next-day delivery deadline by a few minutes.

It's worth a go and the cost is minimal in comparison to a replacement gearbox.

I do wish these electrical faults were simpler to rectify.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 12 May 2022, 17:02:55
As it's quiet in my road this afternoon I went back out to the car, started it and just let it tick over. it's definitely running rougher than before this fault showed up. The tacho is not as rock solid as before either – no large up and down variation, but definitely not what it used to be. Also, I smelled a bit of unburnt fuel from the exhaust yesterday.

I came across this online just now:
Because the camshaft is such a critical part of the engine, a failing sensor can throw out a myriad of symptoms at you.
Here are some of the most common ones:

[Includes]

Limp mode – The vehicle starts and goes but you just can’t accelerate past 30-40 mph. The engine is able to operate and get you back home, but enters a “limp mode” – an emergency override, which limits power and engine speed to prevent damage to the mechanical components


https://autoquarterly.com/diagnosing-and-repairing-a-bad-camshaft-position-sensor/ (https://autoquarterly.com/diagnosing-and-repairing-a-bad-camshaft-position-sensor/)

I'm holding out for a simple solution...but I may just be deluding myself. ;D

 
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: dave the builder on 12 May 2022, 19:11:10
Most Vauxhall petrol cars over fuel on start up and stink of petrol ,perfectly normal
I hope the cam sensor is a fix for your issues though  :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 May 2022, 19:37:53
Most Vauxhall petrol cars over fuel on start up and stink of petrol ,perfectly normal
I hope the cam sensor is a fix for your issues though  :)

I agree it was running slightly lumpy (although not misfiring).

I genuinely - really - want to be proven wrong, but I can’t see the cam or crank sensor (or any other minor engine imperfection) causing this TCM code :(
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 12 May 2022, 19:40:33
Mechanical wear and electrical gremlins are different issues. The gearbox isn't that bright ;)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 May 2022, 19:44:17
Mechanical wear and electrical gremlins are different issues. The gearbox isn't that bright ;)

I agree. I just can’t get away from the fact that the last times I’ve seen this issue - a box replacement has solved it.

I agree it’s electrical. I’m sure of it. I say this because the fault returns after being cleared, even without the engine running.

I just think it could be something inside the box. After all many of the wires are immersed in ATF!

Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 May 2022, 19:44:58
I’d like to see this car again (and drop / look inside the sumps). It was impossible on weds due to the torrential rain.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: dave the builder on 12 May 2022, 19:47:10
Most Vauxhall petrol cars over fuel on start up and stink of petrol ,perfectly normal
I hope the cam sensor is a fix for your issues though  :)

I agree it was running slightly lumpy (although not misfiring).

I genuinely - really - want to be proven wrong, but I can’t see the cam or crank sensor (or any other minor engine imperfection) causing this TCM code :(
Sadly i think with the history (auto box  "someone's been here before" syndrome) It might be a box swap to fix  :(
BUT hopefully not
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 12 May 2022, 21:40:35
I’d like to see this car again (and drop / look inside the sumps). It was impossible on weds due to the torrential rain.

You know you're welcome anytime to look inside the sump!  :y :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2022, 09:10:04
P1625-02: Internal Power Control Final Stage Low Input.

P0748 -06: Unknown Error

The codes are there for a reason, use them :)

P0748 with a P1625 is a low current and/or open circuit to pressure solenoid


Pissing around with Cam sensor is like pissing in a force 10 wind...
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2022, 09:11:13
And if you want to continuity check the loom, its connected to pins 5 and 52 on the ECU
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 May 2022, 10:27:52
P1625-02: Internal Power Control Final Stage Low Input.

P0748 -06: Unknown Error

The codes are there for a reason, use them :)

P0748 with a P1625 is a low current and/or open circuit to pressure solenoid


Pissing around with Cam sensor is like pissing in a force 10 wind...

Thanks, J. Can you recall from memory, which one the pressure control solenoid is?

Also do you know from memory if Jpat are still selling them?

I think a resistance check across the solenoid itself followed by a continuity check is the way to go.

Can you recall what sort of resistance I’m expecting?

I’ll pop over and measure it then :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 May 2022, 10:55:25
This box is the 4L30-E, isn’t it? (It’s been a long time since I’ve played with these transmissions and I’m rusty).

If so it seems Jpat still do all the solenoids :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 May 2022, 11:00:00
I have sent JPAT an enquiry about solenoid availability, price and posting :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2022, 16:42:10
Can't remember.  Given the cost of the ATF/Filter, I've always recommended replacing all of them with known good.  But genuine known good spares are probably rarer now.


Worth doing a continuity check from ECU to gearbox, as some of these are starting to get loom issues now.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 May 2022, 09:52:46
Worth doing a continuity check from ECU to gearbox, as some of these are starting to get loom issues now.

We have a pressure control solenoid on order in case we need it (means we are able to finish the job same day, if so)

My plan is

1) measure the resistance across the pressure solenoid (might tell us outright if it’s failed)
2) continuity check from the solenoid wires to the ECU connector

If 1 shows solenoid has failed, replace it.

If 2 shows that there is a break in the loom, try and find where, visually and with the help of Mr Multimeter!

I’m confident one way or another we will crack this :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2022, 11:31:59
Good luck :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 16 May 2022, 16:57:19
Cheers. If the gearbox is kind to us and allows it to be repaired, the car will (time depending but almost certainly) also be treated to a new cambelt kit and a full service tomorrow :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: STEMO on 16 May 2022, 17:15:12
Don't forget the water pump  ;D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 16 May 2022, 23:18:59
Don't forget the water pump  ;D

Already in the boot :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 17 May 2022, 20:08:19
Yabba-Dabba-Doo!

Thanks to the great Omega wizard, JamesV6CDX, the fault was located and the offending item (the main autobox solenoid) replaced.

Fault codes all gone! Smooth changes through the gears.

I am over the moon. Aside from his knowledge, his energy and his optimism, he's a real gent!  :)

So, today saw the solenoid fixed, yucky ATF replaced, fuel filter replaced, plus a full engine oil change. Coming back soon to do the brake discs and pads, cambelt, aux belt, plug change and oil pressure switch replacement.

Great weather and a great day!  :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: grifter on 17 May 2022, 20:51:06
out of interest, what valve was it? Looking at this diagram was it 17 or 18 or another one?

https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18 (https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 May 2022, 21:00:15
I haven’t looked at the diagram yet as I’m posting from mobile and only a flying visit - but if it helps, it’s the larger of the two solenoids, in the front sump, with the push on spade connectors :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 17 May 2022, 21:31:49
out of interest, what valve was it? Looking at this diagram was it 17 or 18 or another one?

https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18 (https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18)

Looking at the invoice from JPAT, the description is:
Part No: N147 35 09 Solenoid, EPC, 4L60E 93-02, 4L80E 94-03, OEM

 :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 May 2022, 21:49:17
out of interest, what valve was it? Looking at this diagram was it 17 or 18 or another one?

https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18 (https://vauxhall.catalogs-parts.com/#{client:1;page:part;lang:en;category:car;catalog:v94;group:h;groupsub:2;subgroup:8-0}#18)

Looking at the invoice from JPAT, the description is:
Part No: N147 35 09 Solenoid, EPC, 4L60E 93-02, 4L80E 94-03, OEM

 :y

Interesting - I’m sure this box is a 4L30-E (and IIRC, the additional front part / sump was an upgrade from an earlier GM box).

But let’s not concern ourselves too much - it works now! :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 May 2022, 22:19:16
Electrically speaking the 4LxxE is ostensibly the same box.

The 4 is the number of forward gears,
L is the layout
xx is the torque rating
E is the electronic control instead of mechanical.  :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Raeturbo on 18 May 2022, 00:35:22
Well done James, you’re a Demigod👍 My Mv6 is still pulling like a good honest man pulling something off his granny👍👍👍😂
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: STEMO on 18 May 2022, 06:22:20
Well done, James, again  :-*
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 18 May 2022, 09:03:02
OOF at its best again, excellent news :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 18 May 2022, 11:24:48
OOF at its best again, excellent news :)

 :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Migalot on 21 May 2022, 23:11:50
James popped round today to do the cambelt, auxiliary belt, oil pressure switch and front brake discs and pads.

Was disturbed to find that the numpties at my local garage (where the cambelt was done 3 years ago) had managed to fit the belt a tooth out on both banks. Also, there was a tooth of slack in one section of the pulley belt which could easily have caused a failure. James was particularly unimpressed by the Tippex marks they had put on the pulleys – they clearly didn't use a proper kit. Add to that, they failed to reconnect the fuel sensor vacuum hose by the plenum. >:( >:(

Oh, and they had also dropped one of those plastic bungs under the plenum. I wondered where it had gone.

Won't ever use them again.

So pleased to have James correct everything. He's one hell of a good lad.  :y :y 

Can't wait to have a drive tomorrow!  :)
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 21 May 2022, 23:25:21
Very welcome as always mate. I’ll pop some specifics up later, but just off to catch last orders :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Nick W on 22 May 2022, 07:56:52
I wouldn't worry about Tippex emphasising the correct marks on the pulleys, it's extra ones or on the backing plate that are cause for concern.
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 22 May 2022, 08:36:52
I wouldn't worry about Tippex emphasising the correct marks on the pulleys, it's extra ones or on the backing plate that are cause for concern.

Which were also present :)

It had clearly been done by eye and no setting kit. By someone unfamiliar with this V6 :y

Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Nick W on 22 May 2022, 11:04:08
I wouldn't worry about Tippex emphasising the correct marks on the pulleys, it's extra ones or on the backing plate that are cause for concern.

Which were also present :)

It had clearly been done by eye and no setting kit. By someone unfamiliar with this V6 :y


Mine was the same, and all four cams were a tooth out; clearly the previous mechanic(and I had the invoice for the work) didn't turn the engine through after fitting the belt. It ran a lot better being correctly timed, and the fuel economy improvement easily paid for the setting kit. I do add Tippex to the correct pulley marks just to make the job quicker
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 22 May 2022, 11:05:56
I hope you used genuine tippex :D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Nick W on 22 May 2022, 11:18:39
I hope you used genuine tippex :D


Nope.


I've also used purple nail varnish before. I find being able to see all five timing marks simultaneously makes the job much easier. A does a long handled ratchet :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: johnnydog on 22 May 2022, 12:22:58
I hope you used genuine tippex :D

And from a genuine Tippex dealer that you genuinely have to walk into... :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: TheBoy on 25 May 2022, 08:37:38
I've also used purple nail varnish before.
Because thats what you had left over from your Saturday night out :P
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 May 2022, 18:55:27
Gearbox is buggered. Lots of slippage, smell of burning friction, thumping, and limp mode.

I suspect the solenoid change temporarily masked the problem, and that the old one was killed by whatever is falling to bits inside the box.

Car is now on my drive for an upgrade to AR35 incl new Torque Converter and if needs be, flex plate (auto version of a flywheel)

Watch this space for photos / videos and updates :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: STEMO on 30 May 2022, 19:46:33
Gearbox is buggered. Lots of slippage, smell of burning friction, thumping, and limp mode.

I suspect the solenoid change temporarily masked the problem, and that the old one was killed by whatever is falling to bits inside the box.

Car is now on my drive for an upgrade to AR35 incl new Torque Converter and if needs be, flex plate (auto version of a flywheel)

Watch this space for photos / videos and updates :y
I knew something was afoot when you asked if you could pick up the box from Joe.

Can you get me a job in CID?  ;D
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 30 May 2022, 19:58:52
Gearbox is buggered. Lots of slippage, smell of burning friction, thumping, and limp mode.

I suspect the solenoid change temporarily masked the problem, and that the old one was killed by whatever is falling to bits inside the box.

Car is now on my drive for an upgrade to AR35 incl new Torque Converter and if needs be, flex plate (auto version of a flywheel)

Watch this space for photos / videos and updates :y
I knew something was afoot when you asked if you could pick up the box from Joe.

Can you get me a job in CID?  ;D

Yeah sure. You can have mine  ::)

I asked for the box because Migalot texted me to say there was a funny vibration / sensation. My inner sense just detected the gearbox would be the culprit. I’ve been suspicious of it.

Thankfully I was right - and we have a free AR35, so all that’s been lost is some ATF / a solenoid :y
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: Andy H on 31 May 2022, 10:15:04
Gearbox is buggered. Lots of slippage, smell of burning friction, thumping, and limp mode.

I suspect the solenoid change temporarily masked the problem, and that the old one was killed by whatever is falling to bits inside the box.

Car is now on my drive for an upgrade to AR35 incl new Torque Converter and if needs be, flex plate (auto version of a flywheel)

Watch this space for photos / videos and updates :y
I knew something was afoot when you asked if you could pick up the box from Joe.

Can you get me a job in CID?  ;D

Yeah sure. You can have mine  ::)

I asked for the box because Migalot texted me to say there was a funny vibration / sensation. My inner sense just detected the gearbox would be the culprit. I’ve been suspicious of it.

Thankfully I was right - and we have a free AR35, so all that’s been lost is some ATF / a solenoid :y
I am in awe of the way you work. I am also feeling guilty for tagging you and getting you involved ::)

Asking the following because I genuinely don't know the answer - has the dying box pumped debris through the cooler and the cooler hoses? if it has done so is it OK to flush them & re-use?
Title: Re: Help! Error code P1700
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 01 June 2022, 02:18:21
Gearbox is buggered. Lots of slippage, smell of burning friction, thumping, and limp mode.

I suspect the solenoid change temporarily masked the problem, and that the old one was killed by whatever is falling to bits inside the box.

Car is now on my drive for an upgrade to AR35 incl new Torque Converter and if needs be, flex plate (auto version of a flywheel)

Watch this space for photos / videos and updates :y
I knew something was afoot when you asked if you could pick up the box from Joe.

Can you get me a job in CID?  ;D

Yeah sure. You can have mine  ::)

I asked for the box because Migalot texted me to say there was a funny vibration / sensation. My inner sense just detected the gearbox would be the culprit. I’ve been suspicious of it.

Thankfully I was right - and we have a free AR35, so all that’s been lost is some ATF / a solenoid :y
I am in awe of the way you work. I am also feeling guilty for tagging you and getting you involved ::)

Asking the following because I genuinely don't know the answer - has the dying box pumped debris through the cooler and the cooler hoses? if it has done so is it OK to flush them & re-use?

I am sure the cooler will be fine with a flush. What I can say, is that the nice clean red ATF we pumped in a couple of weeks ago, is brown and smells really burnt. Clearly the mechanicals of the box have been letting go, which is what buggered the original pressure solenoid.

The cooler will be thoroughly flushed,  and I am confident that will be more than sufficient, providing there are no blockages to the flow, which I doubt there will be, It seems that most of the debris went in the bottom of the ATF sumps :y