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[Sir Tigger KC]

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

The voice of reason and common sense strikes again!! 

[dbug]

A tractor has no control on how wide it is. Single file cycling gives the motorist more chance of over taking......cycling 3 wide or even 2 wide makes it a whole lot harder to overtake......and is just selfish behaviour imo.....what difference does it make to the cyclist if he's following another??

It may have been an event......but you still have to be considerate to other road users....yes??

2 wide is within highway code 

Also given they were quite close to the speed limit, I don't see the problem. It forces cars to go around you, rather than letting them blast past with mm's to spare, which happened a lot.

There were 300 of us, so even if you over-took a few, had quite a few more bikes in front of you.

3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit.  Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users

And I agree with Entwoods post

[cleggy]

my 2p's worth .... Any law that automatically states who is right or wrong without investigating the circumstances cannot be correct. Goes against all principles of justice.

Exactly right mare=[highlight]Innocent until proven guilty

[/highlight]

Didn't I state that in my first post

[Kevin Wood]

3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit.  Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users

And I agree with Entwoods post

Does a car driver have a right to be doing the speed limit at all times, then? 

[tunnie]

3 abreast (wide) isn't, and 30mph is not close to 40mph speed limit.  Thats just being inconsiderate to other road users

And I agree with Entwoods post

Does a car driver have a right to be doing the speed limit at all times, then? 

The key word is "limit" it's not a target. It's a limit. Thays what my old driving instructor said. You dot have to drive bang on the limit. A tractor is at least 6 bikes wide and would be doing half the speed, that's inconsiderate as well.

It was a big team thing, riding together giving each other encouragement as we went. I pay enough road tax to enjoy roads on my bike, if drivers on road disagree with that. Well then tough, go around me, just wait then push pedal a little harder to go around us!

[D]

I've witnessed my "made up scenarios" many times over the years cycling in London, try cycling to work next week. See how that affects your opinion 

You also might want to give a copy of highway code to most Audi drivers 

I'll also add your scenarios scenario are clearly biased Cleggy, as you only appear to be concerned with someone running into the back of you when there are many other types of collisions, such as T bone 

I cycle into central London everyday. The number of cyclists without helmets, lights, running red lights/pedestrian crossings, riding 3-4 abreast, sneaking around the nearside of large trucks are much greater than the number of cyclists who obey the law like me. I have yet to cut a red light. If I am really impatient, I dismount and walk across the pedestrian crossing. Very often there will be perhaps one or two others waiting at the lights whilst most cut red lights. This is my observation whilst cycling myself.

Yes there are badly behaved motorists as well. But the proportion of idiots on cycles seems much higher. I have witnessed quite a few who have clipped car mirrors/bumpers and ride away knowing full well that the car driver cannot catch up with them in London traffic. Accountability seems to be a low priority for these cyclists. Yet a fair few of them have helmet cams that they will use to post on youtube to complain about car drivers. As you say it needs to be a 2 way street.

The standards seem a lot better the more you move away from the centre of London. I was driving in Bromley today and the cyclists all seemed very well behaved and courteous.

There are idiots in cars that make my blood boil as well. Here is one example:
http://road.cc/content/news/81677-no-charges-road-rage-van-driver-who-assaulted-cyclist-video-incident

[steve6367]

A little common sense from both sides around here would help.

On the green aspect, I have often wondered if cycles using the road where a perfectly good cycle way has been provided (usually half a wide pavement here) then there must be more energy wasted by the cars braking and accelerating around the cyclist doing 20 on a 50 section of road than is saved by the cycling?

I do cycle, but find doing so on roads not especially relaxing!

Back to the original question, I don't see how either party in any road incident can be to blame by default. It must be investigated properly and blame determined.

[Elite Pete]

I'm going to be getting on my bike this year but i'll do it down the country lanes where i'll not be a danger to anyone else or myself

[Del Boy]

I think that cyclists totally have the right to be on the road too, however there are some idiots out there, just as there is in cars. Although I don't agree that every accident should be blamed on the car driver, that's like saying every accident on the road should be blamed on a van driver, stupid.

[millwall]

Cycylists in london can be a right pain in the arse with the attitude of sod the law of the road they should be mafe to have insurance and pay tax they want respect and the right to use the road well bloody pay for it like cars have to

[the alarming man]

well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse...

[tunnie]

well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse...

Oh no holding traffic up. 

Riding two a breast is totally legal. 

[Andy B]

well tbh last weekend i nearly had two lycra clad loons as bonnet mascots riding two a breast holding all the traffic up...you want to ride like in front me...fine...but you will come off and trust these two tits wont do it again as behind me was a kent plod traffic unit and he pulled them over and i stopped as well to make a complaint against them...well i left as mr plod was doing a spot of finger wagging...mind you never did get too find out tosser on bike called me...well as i told him he was entitled to his opinion but mine is your an arse...

Oh no holding traffic up. 

Riding two a breast is totally legal. 

66
You should

 .....
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

[tunnie]

Road never stated, just stated riding two up. 

[Andy B]

Road never stated, just stated riding two up. 

I know, but there are rules, common sense & ignorance.
Where there are hoards of lycra louts racing on small B roads taking up the whole lane, it should be permissible to mow them down!! 

And if there were just two abreast & holding up the traffic, the implication was that the road wasn't big enough to ridden 2 abreast on