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Author Topic: Chipped!  (Read 4719 times)

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TheBoy

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #30 on: 17 April 2021, 12:52:37 »

Pretty certain Intel didn't include even basic EFI (Intel tend to call it UEFI) on 900 series boards.  I think by around Series 4 boards they started putting on an incomplete EFI.

So if Win10 x64 does need EFI, then you're phishing in a phorce 10.
Thanks for the info  :)
I bow to your vastly superior knowledge and will sling the guts of said PC in the gold recovery PCB pile
when i've got my arse in gear and migrated to the newer pc build  ;)
Who needs x64.  32bit is fine.  A motherboard from that era probably tops out around 4Gb anyway, so absolutely no point going 64bit (64bit data structures are much bigger, so the OS and applications need more RAM to use 64bit. Also, although 64bit processing is slightly quicker, most processes still remain 32bit, and have to pass through a translation layer, meaning no noticable performance gains on a desktop OS).

So it will carry on nicely as a 32bit Win10 for a bit longer.  I'd even say its worth splashing £30 on a 240Gb SSD as a boot drive...   ...that'll boost its Windows performance better than 64bit.
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dave the builder

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #31 on: 17 April 2021, 13:37:07 »

Pretty certain Intel didn't include even basic EFI (Intel tend to call it UEFI) on 900 series boards.  I think by around Series 4 boards they started putting on an incomplete EFI.

So if Win10 x64 does need EFI, then you're phishing in a phorce 10.
Thanks for the info  :)
I bow to your vastly superior knowledge and will sling the guts of said PC in the gold recovery PCB pile
when i've got my arse in gear and migrated to the newer pc build  ;)
Who needs x64.  32bit is fine.  A motherboard from that era probably tops out around 4Gb anyway, so absolutely no point going 64bit (64bit data structures are much bigger, so the OS and applications need more RAM to use 64bit. Also, although 64bit processing is slightly quicker, most processes still remain 32bit, and have to pass through a translation layer, meaning no noticable performance gains on a desktop OS).

So it will carry on nicely as a 32bit Win10 for a bit longer.  I'd even say its worth splashing £30 on a 240Gb SSD as a boot drive...   ...that'll boost its Windows performance better than 64bit.
The board has 4 DIMM slots and will take 4x 2GB DDR2-800 ,which I have ,but with W10 32 bit that gets limited to 3.5GB  :(
an SSD would be  a good idea but not worth the £30 out lay on this PC

I do have several newer, with UEFI ,DDR2, LGA775 boards knocking about that i could have built (and probably should have  )  RATHER than the AMD AM3+ i just built  :-[


new PC boots super fast with the SSD ,well worth fitting to an older PC or laptop
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #32 on: 18 April 2021, 09:16:52 »

Who needs x64.  32bit is fine.  ...

Agreed, but it's getting to the point where more and more application software is only being built for x64.

A more sensible approach might have been for Windows to open up the physical address space to 64 bit to remove the 4GB limit but to keep 32 bit process address spaces for efficiency.

I've run my Linux machines like this for years but went x64 in the end due to a couple of bits of software where the developers CBA to support 32 bit.
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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #33 on: 19 April 2021, 17:51:27 »

Who needs x64.  32bit is fine.  ...

Agreed, but it's getting to the point where more and more application software is only being built for x64.

A more sensible approach might have been for Windows to open up the physical address space to 64 bit to remove the 4GB limit but to keep 32 bit process address spaces for efficiency.

I've run my Linux machines like this for years but went x64 in the end due to a couple of bits of software where the developers CBA to support 32 bit.
Windows Server, back when it was available in 32bit, got round the limit using PAE.  But PAE is a bodge, and the only effeicent way to see beyond what a 32bit adress space provides is to go native 64 bit on the CPU.  Everything else needs page swapping or PAE.  Urgh.


Though why the hell we need more than 4GB RAM is an alien concept to me.  I'm sure Mr Gates once said that 640k was more than enough for anyone.  Mind you, that was before he inflicted Windows on the world.
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dave the builder

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #34 on: 19 April 2021, 19:29:45 »

Windows 10 is really bloated with APPS that most people will never use
I got a video on youtube to watch about trimming it up to windows 10 light  :P
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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #35 on: 20 April 2021, 00:23:13 »

Who needs x64.  32bit is fine.  ...

Agreed, but it's getting to the point where more and more application software is only being built for x64.

A more sensible approach might have been for Windows to open up the physical address space to 64 bit to remove the 4GB limit but to keep 32 bit process address spaces for efficiency.

I've run my Linux machines like this for years but went x64 in the end due to a couple of bits of software where the developers CBA to support 32 bit.
Windows Server, back when it was available in 32bit, got round the limit using PAE.  But PAE is a bodge, and the only effeicent way to see beyond what a 32bit adress space provides is to go native 64 bit on the CPU.  Everything else needs page swapping or PAE.  Urgh.


Though why the hell we need more than 4GB RAM is an alien concept to me.  I'm sure Mr Gates once said that 640k was more than enough for anyone.  Mind you, that was before he inflicted Windows on the world.

Oh, I definitely need more than 4GB. ;D

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio open, a couple of Eclipse and all the Java sh1te that comes with it, sometimes IAR as well, a couple of other VMs, along with all the usual office tosser stuff and, these days, teams, etc. So most of it probably goes in Mr. Gates' bloat, which is ironic.. ;D
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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #36 on: 20 April 2021, 20:32:01 »

Windows 10 is really bloated with APPS that most people will never use
I got a video on youtube to watch about trimming it up to windows 10 light  :P
Yes, MS have lost the plot a bit lately.  Nowhere near as much as Apple have, mind.
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TheBoy

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #37 on: 20 April 2021, 20:33:24 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #38 on: 21 April 2021, 18:28:02 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.

.. and no doubt it will use the extra memory space as soon as it does. ::)
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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #39 on: 23 April 2021, 16:58:43 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.

.. and no doubt it will use the extra memory space as soon as it does. ::)
I wonder if MS have forewarned Intel/AMD that we will soon need x128 to cope with all these 64bit apps ;D
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #40 on: 23 April 2021, 19:28:08 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.

.. and no doubt it will use the extra memory space as soon as it does. ::)
I wonder if MS have forewarned Intel/AMD that we will soon need x128 to cope with all these 64bit apps ;D

Mad, isn't it?.. and I was trying to shoe-horn an extra boot loader into a machine with 16k of RAM earlier. ;D
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TheBoy

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #41 on: 24 April 2021, 12:50:22 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.

.. and no doubt it will use the extra memory space as soon as it does. ::)
I wonder if MS have forewarned Intel/AMD that we will soon need x128 to cope with all these 64bit apps ;D

Mad, isn't it?.. and I was trying to shoe-horn an extra boot loader into a machine with 16k of RAM earlier. ;D
Psion got a whole flight simulator, including the memory mapped screen, into 16k on the ZX81 ;D
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dave the builder

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Re: Chipped!
« Reply #42 on: 24 April 2021, 13:20:58 »

My machine spends the day with about 3 instances of Visual Studio
I believe that is on the verge of going 64bit.  Better late than never, as that could really use the extra memory space.

.. and no doubt it will use the extra memory space as soon as it does. ::)
I wonder if MS have forewarned Intel/AMD that we will soon need x128 to cope with all these 64bit apps ;D

Mad, isn't it?.. and I was trying to shoe-horn an extra boot loader into a machine with 16k of RAM earlier. ;D
Psion got a whole flight simulator, including the memory mapped screen, into 16k on the ZX81 ;D
impressive indeed  8)
If only Sir Clive had made the connection between the MOBO and 16k ram pack better   :'(
pressing buttons on the keyboard membrane to play a game would inevitably result in it crashing and having to watch the coloured lines and listen to the data noise for another chunk of your life while the game was reloaded  :D 

Fortunately we now have GAFFA TAPE to resolve such IT problems  8)
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