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[Doctor Gollum]

Following from my previous post, I have found no evidence of air leaks pre or post combustion.

Two can of Wynns Injector Cleaner and two tanks of V Power.

Live data is as follows, (car up to temp):

1. Bank 1 Closed Loop.
2. Bank 2 Closed Loop.
3. Load Value 22%.
4. Coolant Temp 80°C.
5. B1 STFT 0.8/-1.6%.
6. B1 LTFT 10.2%.
7. B2 STFT 0.8/-1.6%.
8. B2 LTFT 11.7%
9. Inlet Manifold Absolute Pressure 0.0 kPa.
10. Crank speed 684/702.
11. Vehicle Speed 0.0 Mph.
12. Ignition Advance -12°.
13. Intake Air Temp 24°C.
14. Air Flow 4 g/s.
15. Throttle 2%.
16. Secondary Air Off (not installed from factory. Wiring present but plugs blanked from build).
17. B1S1 Output 0.090/0.770 V.
18. B1S1 STFT 0.8/-1.6%.
19. B1S2 Output 0.000 V.
20. B1S2 STFT 99.2%.
21. B2S1 Output 0.090/0.740 V.
22. B2S1 STFT 0.8/-1.6%.
23. B2S2 Output 0.000 V.
24. B2S2 STFT 99.2%.

Ignition retardation (negative advance), B1/2 S2 voltages stand out as unexpected.

Increase the RPM to 2,500 and the Ignition drops back to - 39°.

Any values with two numbers are the extremes of the fluctuations, generally sitting in the middle.

[dave the builder]

both post cat lambda  are doing diddly squat  zero volts
LTFTs high

[Doctor Gollum]

No codes though

Also it was imported, if that would have a bearing on the number of sensors?

[dave the builder]

No codes though

Also it was imported, if that would have a bearing on the number of sensors?

LTFTs don't throw a code until 20% (on cars i've played with)

are the pre and post cat lambdas the same plugs ? as in could you swap the electrical plugs over to test the sensors  easily

[dave the builder]

also MAP "Manifold Absolute Pressure 0.0 kPa." is that running ?

[Doctor Gollum]

At 700 rpm, I would hope so

Front sensor plugs are on the fire wall, rears not visible from above, so presumably within the gearbox loom

[dave the builder]

well the MAP should have a reading of NOT zero  running unless it's not in the fannymould and just dangling or massive airleak or duff sensor .

can you look on 7zap or similar to see where the plugs for post cat o2s are and if they are the same part numbers or interchangeable/cable reaches ?

or ECU  pinouts to test ECU end ?

[Doctor Gollum]

We're presuming it has one. It could be that the code reader software expects one but there's not one fitted.

Certainly there's no evidence of one on the manifold/plenum... Just the MAF and TB.

Again no code and no airleak because the idle is normal. 

Will check the IPC with the chassis number.

[Doctor Gollum]

No MAP sensor unless supercharged or US market

No post cat sensors either...

Both 2001 MY onwards 

Certainly explains the lack of codes/EML.

[Marks DTM Calib]

If Lambda is good and post cat Lambda the same, car up to temperature and operating closed loop, with the mixture control Lambda switching about every second, and its failing on CO's then its most probably knackered CATs

[Doctor Gollum]

In which case, at least it is pre 2001, so any old shyte will suffice 

I need to physically check underneath that whether it actually has rear sensors.

[Marks DTM Calib]

MOT emission result will also give an indication

[dave the builder]

I wouldn't fit non type approved cats unless you are just getting an MOT to offload the car 
even then a non type approved cat may struggle to even get you past the test if the car is overfueling .
No vac or zorst leaks you say, have you checked the common link ,the EGR  assuming it has one ?
10% plus LTFT seems high to me assuming you reset the trims and it returned high
long term overfilling will rape the cats
with no post cat monitoring ,they could be ******

MOT emission result will also give an indication

I asked ages ago on another thread  the actual values would help if available agreed 
if you're paying for MOTs or pre MOT emmission tests DG the NT should print you out a result

[Doctor Gollum]

I should have made a note of them. The pretest was a bit last minute as they had booked me in for the wrong day.

Will see if I can get another test done but looking at a replacement today.

[dave the builder]

I should have made a note of them. The pretest was a bit last minute as they had booked me in for the wrong day.

Will see if I can get another test done but looking at a replacement today.

OK, hope that pans out well for you DG 

[Doctor Gollum]

Ta. Garage that did the tyres will do a free emissions check, so will go down that route if required, just to confirm the diagnosis.

Obviously no EML suggests that the ecu is happy, which certainly points to the cats.

Even with a fresh MoT it will be going soon, if only for Mother's benefit. 

[Doctor Gollum]

Presumably 2510-1 Boost pressure regulator is not a good thing

Especially when attached to a pending P0244...

[Marks DTM Calib]

I wouldn't fit non type approved cats unless you are just getting an MOT to offload the car 
even then a non type approved cat may struggle to even get you past the test if the car is overfueling .
No vac or zorst leaks you say, have you checked the common link ,the EGR  assuming it has one ?
10% plus LTFT seems high to me assuming you reset the trims and it returned high
long term overfilling will rape the cats
with no post cat monitoring ,they could be ******

MOT emission result will also give an indication

I asked ages ago on another thread  the actual values would help if available agreed 
if you're paying for MOTs or pre MOT emmission tests DG the NT should print you out a result

If the Lambdas are switching then its not over fueling 

[Doctor Gollum]

It smells a bit rich, the ecu is is a 3.2 one feeding a 2.8...

However, electrically it is happy enough. And presumably it works by supplying fuel to match the air demands.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thats the closed loop control.

ECU adds more fuel until there is no oxygen detected in the exhaust (so running slightly rich), it then progressively backs the fuel content off until it sees oxygen present in the exhaust (now running slightly lean), this then repeats about every second. Hence if you see the mixture control Lambda switching you know the system is running closed loop and the fueling should be good.

Now as part of this it will also learn some adaptions, long term ones being a key indicator as these are used to correct the default map and in theory are there to compensate for worn components over the life of the engine. So given the ECU is for a different engine, seeing the corrections you have is no surprise

[Doctor Gollum]

Such as the retarded timing etc?

[Marks DTM Calib]

No, timing is a separate loop, where by the ignition is retarded until knock is detected, then it advances it by 2 degrees and repeats. No need for correction values as its closed loop from the moment of start (emission control has heat up times and WOT whee it is open loop)

[Doctor Gollum]

Apparently it wasn't hot enough. Got it warmed up enough to melt lava and it has passed an emissions test, will post the values later, but currently having the rest of the MoT done...

[Viral_Jim]

Probably suggests the cats are getting 'tired' then

What are you swapping it for?

[dave the builder]

well if it passed the emissions we know the HCs where less than 200 ,CO % vol sub 0.03 and Lambda within range of 0.93 to 1.030 

good luck with the rest of the test 

Probably suggests the cats are getting 'tired' then

2 tins of Whiskers and a rest by the fire and they will be fine 

[Viral_Jim]

A brick fetishist and a comedian, who knew  .

[dave the builder]

A brick fetishist and a comedian, who knew  .

Don't knock "BRICKS"    they're the building blocks of modern ......

[Doctor Gollum]

Failed on headlight aim and a dicky xenon...

A few minors to boot but nothing unexpected.

So I call that a win

[dave the builder]

Failed on headlight aim and a dicky xenon...

A few minors to boot but nothing unexpected.

So I call that a win

that shouldn't  cost much to resolve then 

[Doctor Gollum]

Already done.

Halogen units back in, the headlight range and ballast plugs  bagged and tucked away and the fuse pulled.

All working as it should tested and issue free. Retest booked for Friday afternoon. 

The alternative is dicking around trying to get a pair of new ballasts within the ten working days/work commitments...

[dave the builder]

Already done.

Halogen units back in, the headlight range and ballast plugs  bagged and tucked away and the fuse pulled.

All working as it should tested and issue free. Retest booked for Friday afternoon. 

The alternative is dicking around trying to get a pair of new ballasts within the ten working days/work commitments...

you modded the headlights to HID daynt cha and it bit ya 

[Doctor Gollum]

Not at all.

Near as I can tell something else in the front left SAM uses current on start up that causes the ballast of the OS headlight to falter.

Swapping the ballasts and even the lights doesn't change the fault or move it to the NS (controlled by the right front SAM).

In day to day use, the lights work perfectly, but sometimesthe OS light sparks up instantly, sometimes the end of the drive and on occasion the end of the road.

The specific issue with the MoT is the tester using the switch to turn them on, when I tend to leave them in auto mode. And to prove that the issue is something else in the SAM and not the headlights is that the lights come on for a period of time when you close the driver door after switch off. Do this and both headlights spark up instantly.

The levelling is all done by the headlight ecu and is working perfectly.

Essentially, the xenon retrofit was done using genuine parts from a factory equipped car using the associated wiring and ecu rather than some cheap Chinesey bulb kit from Matalan. It was even coded into the car.

The garage that carried out the pretest were of the mindset that as long as both lights were on, they could test the beam patterns. The tester yesterday was somewhat more of a box ticker. Even so, the only extra advisories were the obligatory rusty brake lines/coated in grease (they aren't, and they aren't) a ball joint boot and the rear indicator bulbs being faded (again they were brand new last year when I fitted the new clusters)... These were swapped with the ones from the now removed xenon, again new on fitting

[dave the builder]

you've had a few electrical gremlins with that car ,probably good thing you are looking at a replacement   

Most Testers have started checking HIDs in detail  recently ,though it was probably 2 years ago the manual was amended 

The tester I go to  is very strict and also a special police part time
fortunately I check everything before hand ,and it's good to have someone else check everything too .

[Doctor Gollum]

To be fair, the initial issues were down to the previous owner/garage I bought it from, and a consequence of what they had done rather than spend a few quid and apply some thought.

Swapping all the drive authorisation stuff from another single car was actually an efficient solution and literally an hour to remove/replace.

The ABS issue that followed was due to previous bodger rather than an actual problem.

The headlights, as said were a retrofit rather than bodgery, the lights themselves actually met all the legal requirements.

The only other electrical item was a duff coil pack, and given its age, I can live with that.

This is the oldest car I have owned, and touch wood, it's also been the most reliable. Which must be some sort of record for a W220

I would go as far as to say that the replacement is almost certainly going to be diesel*, and by virtue of the budget, probably not going to be as reliable regardless of whether it's a Zafiraesque thing or a Sharamblaxyesque thing although if the choice fell between a VAG product or a Toyota Yaris Verso, the Toyata would win hands down

*Will try to avoid a piss powered car, but the DPF might be harder to escape.

[dave the builder]

they don't break down much when you can't use them because of lockdowns 

My mum's has only needed fresh fuel and a front spring in 16 months   
she's only done 35* miles in that 16 months though   

*I may  be responsible for much of those miles for testing/pre MOT assessment 

[Doctor Gollum]

It's done 16k in 20 months, which is less than normal, but hardly sat around