Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 08 August 2017, 23:42:52
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Anyone else having difficulty working out where North Korea is heading.
They surely cannot believe an actual war is winnable?
Anyone got their theory on how it will pan out?
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The route to guarantee DPRK survival is to build an ICBM deliverable nuclear bomb. This prevents a Saddam Hussein / Gaddafi ending to their regime. Will they ever be persuaded to renounce them? Well after what happened to Ukraine that will be a no. :( :( :(
The good news is that the DPRK know the quickest route to their annihilation is to use them or other mass murder methods like missile delivered biological/chemical weapons. SK and Japan are the most likely targets if this does happen. :( :( :(
But there is also some very bad news:
1. What happens if DPRK decides once they have ICBM nukes that to earn $$$ they will supply them to any anti-Western country with Iran top of the list where both countries have always worked closely together on nuke and ICBM development? >:( >:( >:( It will make Obama's nuke deal with Iran redundant. :o :o :o
2. Trump tonight repeated Obama very bad, very damaging, FP mistake where he drew a red line in Syria over chemical weapons and then failed to act. We now have an old fat president with a funny haircut threatening to nuke a young fat president with a funny haircut and nukes who will test the red line. >:( >:( >:(
Three previous presidents: Clinton, Bush and Obama have all found it easier to kick this difficult to solve DPRK can down the road and it has ended up in the lap of the worst president and administration that the US has ever had to deal with it. There are no good solutions to solving this problem, only some are worse than others. An important lesson is that when politicians appease dictators and kick the decision making can down the road, the problem always, but always, gets much, much, worse. >:( >:( >:( :( :( :(
The world is currently at the most unstable and dangerous phase it has been for a generation or two. If you consider the DPRK problem as an entree, don't worry there are several much worse main courses on their way over the next year or two and I'm not sure any major Western power currently has a good enough set of politicians or government to deal with them. >:( >:( >:( :o :o :o
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
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On the face of it Guam seems a strange choice of target,still I suppose someone must have a reason for picking the place.
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On the face of it Guam seems a strange choice of target,still I suppose someone must have a reason for picking the place.
It's the base where any strike against NK is likely to originate from. Guam and Diego Garcia both have the facilities to host Stealth Bombers. They're effectively immobile aircraft carriers in the Indian Ocean.
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On the face of it Guam seems a strange choice of target,still I suppose someone must have a reason for picking the place.
It's the base where any strike against NK is likely to originate from. Guam and Diego Garcia both have the facilities to host Stealth Bombers. They're effectively immobile aircraft carriers in the Indian Ocean.
I have thought that they'd be well equipped to deal with any incoming missile strike. :-\
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40871416
Redneck America will at this moment be hollerin' " Godammit y'all, we aint gonna let some goddam chinky guy threaten us like that, I say we nuke 'em"
Nukes ? Of course not. But I just wouldn't be surpised if something happened. Much will depend on how China would react. :-\
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As someone sent me earlier: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-markets-idUSKBN1AO2OP
Do you think the Chinese markets went up because the market believes China would win in a war against the US? Maybe..
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Vf3mnvNsapVRK/giphy.gif)
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On the face of it Guam seems a strange choice of target,still I suppose someone must have a reason for picking the place.
I believe it is from where the B1 bombers operated that have been showing the flag over Korea recently.
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I have thought that they'd be well equipped to deal with any incoming missile strike. :-\
The technology isn't well tested though. ICBM warheads come in at hypersonic speeds and you can't be confident that you'll hit every one every time. You won't have time to take a second shot at any you missed first time around. And if just one gets through.....
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.......goodbye Guam.....goodbye Korea, North and South.
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I seriously hope that Trump backs his rhetoric up. If he backslides now, Hoo Flung Dung will laugh his little cock off, and see it as a way to do exactly what he wants. Imagine if he is allowed to develop a full nuclear arsenal...the world would be constantly living on a knife edge.
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
He needs to have his bottom smacked and sent to bed without any tea. ::)
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Their short and medium missiles can reach Guam and currently, it will almost certainly be a biological/chemical attack. DPRK missiles are not very reliable where they seem to have major quality control issues and we don't know what 'control extras' the CIA/SVG/Chinese may have added or will add to their software. ::) ::) ::)
The latest generation THAAD is building a good test record on high altitude ballistic missile/ICBM test intercepts having destroyed 15 out of 15. In a nuclear exchange, any you can destroy is always a better outcome than none. :o :o :o Even using nukes to take out nukes despite the fallout which is what the Russian Moscow anti-missile missile defenses use. Major power ICBM's have multiple, independently targetted warheads with decoys to make sure some/all get through.
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
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Fu....kin....ell :o :o
I agree with Lizzie.
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
Remember reading a Larry Bond novel about this scenario a few years ago, (can,t remember the title) but was a damn good read. :y
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So we're all agreed; glass Korea? (might as well do the Middle East while we're at it and why stop there.. China too?)
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So we're all agreed; glass Korea? (might as well do the Middle East while we're at it and why stop there.. China too?)
Whoa! I'm quite partial to a special fried rice. ;D
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Fu....kin....ell :o :o
I agree with Lizzie.
I think Rods reads a lot of books by Dale Brown . . . . .
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I blame Brexit 😀😀 😀
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
Personally, I don't think a DPRK attack is imminent unless the Neanderthal in the WH alpha male chest beating and 6 am provocative Tweets are misunderstood. :o :o :o That to me is by far the biggest danger. :( :( :( I don't think most of Asia will be impressed by their countries being covered with nuclear fallout and the subsequent mass health problems and if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
The last one was ~60million years ago when a large meteor hit a sulphur bed of rock. We must be due another one anytime soon. ::)
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
The last one was ~60million years ago when a large meteor hit a sulphur bed of rock. We must be due another one anytime soon. ::)
No. The last big cull was 1939-45 with, it is now estimated, 60 million killed.
The next big one, if nuclear war broke out, could be 60 billion; in other words most of the human race. Does not bear thinking about, but at least the worry about global warming and the ban on combustion engines would be over! ::) ::) :P
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
The last one was ~60million years ago when a large meteor hit a sulphur bed of rock. We must be due another one anytime soon. ::)
Risky, leaving it to chance...
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
The last one was ~60million years ago when a large meteor hit a sulphur bed of rock. We must be due another one anytime soon. ::)
No. The last big cull was 1939-45 with, it is now estimated, 60 million killed.
The next big one, if nuclear war broke out, could be 60 billion; in other words most of the human race. Does not bear thinking about, but at least the worry about global warming and the ban on combustion engines would be over! ::) ::) :P
Seeing as we have less than 8bn people on the planet, I'd suggest 100%
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if enough are thrown around global warming is over due to the 25degC drop in temperatures from the Nuclear winter. Enjoy growing your crops to survive on glaciers. :o :o :o
Then you don't need to ban petrol cars :).
Where's the button, the world needs a mass cull.
The last one was ~60million years ago when a large meteor hit a sulphur bed of rock. We must be due another one anytime soon. ::)
No. The last big cull was 1939-45 with, it is now estimated, 60 million killed.
The next big one, if nuclear war broke out, could be 60 billion; in other words most of the human race. Does not bear thinking about, but at least the worry about global warming and the ban on combustion engines would be over! ::) ::) :P
Seeing as we have less than 8bn people on the planet, I'd suggest 100%
Oh yes, my finger slipped again; should have read 6 billion! ::) ::) ::) :-* :-*
Mind you, that would solve all problems! ;)
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Well.....I hope we get a decent warning. I have been pre-approved for a £30K loan from my bank and I'm nowhere near the credit limits on my cards. I'd need at least a week...... :)
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Well.....I hope we get a decent warning. I have been pre-approved for a £30K loan from my bank and I'm nowhere near the credit limits on my cards. I'd need at least a week...... :)
Tweet Trump. I am sure he will help a Brit ;D ;D ;)
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Well.....I hope we get a decent warning. I have been pre-approved for a £30K loan from my bank and I'm nowhere near the credit limits on my cards. I'd need at least a week...... :)
Tweet Trump. I am sure he will help a Brit ;D ;D ;)
Trump looks like he's been nuked already ;D
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
hmm..., wasn't that what tony bliar said about saddam hussein?
didn't turn out so well as i recall ::)
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Well.....I hope we get a decent warning. I have been pre-approved for a £30K loan from my bank and I'm nowhere near the credit limits on my cards. I'd need at least a week...... :)
I'm sure you can get nuclear shelters on easy credit terms and currently no waiting lists, so best buy now. The metallic Snot-Green camouflage one should match the car. Don't forget to add the Whippet exercise and toilet area option as you won't be able to go outside for 6 to 18 months. ::) ::) ::)
I would recommend you go for the professionally built option as the self-build one might be cheaper but comes with a Chinese translated Omega style manual. :P :P :P
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If this accelerates into the nuclear option it's going to smart a bit. We can only hope, though, that it doesn't ignite either Trump or Kim's bouffant. I'm not sure anyone has studied the possible effects of all that Elnett going up at once! ;D
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I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
You've completely misunderstood what is happening: Kim wotsisname's posturing is for his military's benefit NOT ours. They are the people that he needs to think he's strong enough for them to keep him as a figure head. Threatening the Americans is intended to justify to the Korean military and population that cutting themselves off from the rest of the world(thereby making the country an even bigger third world shit-hole than most military dictatorships manage) is necessary. Keeping 25million people away from the prosperity that their relations enjoy in the south is not easy.
The best approach internationally to this 'threat'(as their technology is hardly reliable) is not instant military action, but to largely ignore the little twerp.
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I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
You've completely misunderstood what is happening: Kim wotsisname's posturing is for his military's benefit NOT ours. They are the people that he needs to think he's strong enough for them to keep him as a figure head. Threatening the Americans is intended to justify to the Korean military and population that cutting themselves off from the rest of the world(thereby making the country an even bigger third world shit-hole than most military dictatorships manage) is necessary. Keeping 25million people away from the prosperity that their relations enjoy in the south is not easy.
The best approach internationally to this 'threat'(as their technology is hardly reliable) is not instant military action, but to largely ignore the little twerp.
Yep ^^^ :y
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Well.....I hope we get a decent warning. I have been pre-approved for a £30K loan from my bank and I'm nowhere near the credit limits on my cards. I'd need at least a week...... :)
I'm sure you can get nuclear shelters on easy credit terms and currently no waiting lists, so best buy now. The metallic Snot-Green camouflage one should match the car. Don't forget to add the Whippet exercise and toilet area option as you won't be able to go outside for 6 to 18 months. ::) ::) ::)
I would recommend you go for the professionally built option as the self-build one might be cheaper but comes with a Chinese translated Omega style manual. :P :P :P
Anything would be better than the old doors put together in tent form that the Public Information of the 1970s told us to do if the Cold War went live and nuclear strikes were being launched!! ::) ::) ::)
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I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
You've completely misunderstood what is happening: Kim wotsisname's posturing is for his military's benefit NOT ours. They are the people that he needs to think he's strong enough for them to keep him as a figure head. Threatening the Americans is intended to justify to the Korean military and population that cutting themselves off from the rest of the world(thereby making the country an even bigger third world shit-hole than most military dictatorships manage) is necessary. Keeping 25million people away from the prosperity that their relations enjoy in the south is not easy.
The best approach internationally to this 'threat'(as their technology is hardly reliable) is not instant military action, but to largely ignore the little twerp.
Yep ^^^ :y
That may or may not be true, but they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. If they do they will hold the world to ransom, and we will all live in constant fear, at an even higher level than we did during the cold war. They are much more unpredictable than the USSR ever was.
If the Chinese don't take matters in hand before that happens, then the West will have little choice.
Having said that, I think its likely that the U.S. miltary leadership will make their own judgement on the situation with little regard for what Trump tweets about it.
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Ultimately, the question remains...
"What would happen if he had an 'accident'?"
Which raises a few more questions:
Would those 25 million North Koreans happily and quietly become South Korean?
Reunification of Germany came at great emotional, financial and political cost. Could South Korea afford it?
Do the people in charge really want him gone, or is he a useful puppet in the game of population control?
Saddam Hussain was only killed to justify political terrorism... Same in Egypt, same in Libya.
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
hmm..., wasn't that what tony bliar said about saddam hussein?
didn't turn out so well as i recall ::)
No, not quite. But in any case just remember the Munich Crisis of 1938 and the subsequent Munich Agreement that Chamberlain boasted meant "Peace in our time". You can talk, and talk with someone with aggressive intent, exhausting all diplomacy, and think you are coming away from it with a good deal (although Chamberlain doubted this as he returned to No. 10 from Munich) when all the time the one with "power" in his mind is planning attack.
The "Boy" leading NK is now stating he is ready to launch "four" intermediate missiles towards Guam. If you are the President of a nation with awesome fire power that if used fully would be "the likes that the World has never seen before" what would you now do? Wait like the leaders of Britain and France did in 1938 into 1939 and be seen by the aggressor as being weak and just hot air until the inevitable happens? Or strike first and make sure the aggressor knows you mean business, that in 1938 would have stopped Hitler from taking the opportunist steps he did that eventually led to WW2 on September 3rd 1939?
Talk is easy, but action by a leader of a great nation is never that.
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
I was going to ask which they you meant, but it doesn't matter.
Assassinating your own leader without a workable replacement and the machinery to put them in place rarely works well.
Assassinating somebody else's leader NEVER works well for you or the other country.
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I would politely suggest that the North Koreans neither know, nor care, enough to do anything :-\
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
I was going to ask which they you meant, but it doesn't matter.
Assassinating your own leader without a workable replacement and the machinery to put them in place rarely works well.
Assassinating somebody else's leader NEVER works well for you or the other country.
.........................and going back to Hitler............. Churchill had a great plan, one that almost went ahead to assassinate Hitler, until everyone considered that removing him was worse than letting him stay on. He was doing such a grand job anyway in ensuring Germany lost the war!
So, yes, there are always grave risks in removing a leader. ;)
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Strike on Guam? I dare say the US would have a fair chance of shooting it down,not so sure they have the ability to tackle missile(s) sent elsewhere. No star wars defence shield .
Your points 1 and 2 are indeed grim. Satanic state would have the money to obtain nuclear bombs and use them.
Strike on Guam?
That may be exactly what Trump and the USA want. When Japan was flexing it's muscles in 1941 we know the US knew a strike on their Pacific forces was going to take place. The conspiracy historians amoungst us, which includes me, believe Roosevelt and Churchill were just waiting for such a strike, and indeed, before the event, knew it would be on Pearl. That would, and of course did, bring the isolationist US into the fight against Nazi Germany, and then the Axis forces in their entirety. Result!
Trump means "Fire and fury, with power that the World has never seen before", and is just waiting for the excuse to strike at the political centre of N.Korea. Trump is no usual President, and will not conform to usual diplomatic practice. He knows that only delays the inevitable, and has no teeth anyway. I abhor war, but sometimes/ often in history a early warring strike is far better than pussy footing around that only leads to a greater conflict. This is such an example.
Put on your tin hats, it is going to be a rocky ride!
Sounds like you are much more comfortable with the 20-100m (or more if China is drawn in), largely civilian, deaths such a conflict will cause than I am. :( :( :( SK capital Seoul with a population of 25m is only 30 miles from DPRK border. In the event of war DPRK extensive number of artillery pieces and Grad MLRS will launch an immediate massive bombardment of Seoul using a combination of explosive, biological, chemical and quite probably tactical nuclear weapons. :( :( :( They will then launch a massive invasion through an extensive network of secret tunnels, which SK and US will try to stop before they reach the southern coast. Read any of the several studies on this scenario and it is a sh*t sandwich all round where there are no good options or outcomes, deliberately so with the DPRK plans and tactics, only some are worse than others. >:( >:( >:( All of the studies say the only people that call for the US to attack DPRK are those that know nothing of the very major difficulties and high casualties rates that will be involved. :( :( :(
I understand completely what you are saying Rod, but history has taught us to do nothing, or even worse, just keep talking endlessly to a leader bent on military action, only delays the inevitable, and when that inevitable transpires, the consequences are far worse than if real force had been used in the first place. The free world must act with resolute determination now.
hmm..., wasn't that what tony bliar said about saddam hussein?
didn't turn out so well as i recall ::)
No, not quite. But in any case just remember the Munich Crisis of 1938 and the subsequent Munich Agreement that Chamberlain boasted meant "Peace in our time". You can talk, and talk with someone with aggressive intent, exhausting all diplomacy, and think you are coming away from it with a good deal (although Chamberlain doubted this as he returned to No. 10 from Munich) when all the time the one with "power" in his mind is planning attack.
The "Boy" leading NK is now stating he is ready to launch "four" intermediate missiles towards Guam. If you are the President of a nation with awesome fire power that if used fully would be "the likes that the World has never seen before" what would you now do? Wait like the leaders of Britain and France did in 1938 into 1939 and be seen by the aggressor as being weak and just hot air until the inevitable happens? Or strike first and make sure the aggressor knows you mean business, that in 1938 would have stopped Hitler from taking the opportunist steps he did that eventually led to WW2 on September 3rd 1939?
Talk is easy, but action by a leader of a great nation is never that.
History has shown time and time again that appeasement doesn't work. Which is why I (as a native of the country) have concerns about the longer term future of the relative peace in Northern Ireland.
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they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. If they do they will hold the world to ransom, and we will all live in constant fear, at an even higher level than we did during the cold war.
too late i think
If you are the President of a nation with awesome fire power what would you now do? Wait like the leaders of Britain and France did in 1938 into 1939 and be seen by the aggressor as being weak and just hot air until the inevitable happens? Or strike first and make sure the aggressor knows you mean business, that in 1938 would have stopped Hitler from taking the opportunist steps he did that eventually led to WW2 on September 3rd 1939?
just swap the word "President" above for "Supreme Leader" and re-read that :o
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they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. If they do they will hold the world to ransom, and we will all live in constant fear, at an even higher level than we did during the cold war.
too late i think
If you are the President of a nation with awesome fire power what would you now do? Wait like the leaders of Britain and France did in 1938 into 1939 and be seen by the aggressor as being weak and just hot air until the inevitable happens? Or strike first and make sure the aggressor knows you mean business, that in 1938 would have stopped Hitler from taking the opportunist steps he did that eventually led to WW2 on September 3rd 1939?
just swap the word "President" above for "Supreme Leader" and re-read that :o
It doesn't work as The President of the USA does have massive firepower that the kid in NK can only dream about ;)
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And despite all Trumps rhetoric, the U.S does have some democratic checks & balances which NK doesn't.
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There are a whole range of things that can be done between appeasement and nuclear war, which includes isolation, sanctions, diplomatic pressure, surgical strikes etc., etc. One of the big problems is that DPRK is supported by the Axis of Evil Russia, Iran and China and it shares borders with two of them. :( :( :( You would be surprised on how quickly the problem would be solved if the West started with a 100% border tax on all Chinese goods, that doubles it each time DPRK tests a nuke, fires a missile or threatens or cyber-attacks a Western Nation. :y :y :y DPRK can't survive very long without its constant Chinese support nor can the Chinese economy in its current form without the West's export market.
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It seems to me that they're both trying to talk themselves into a corner where a shooting match is the only outcome.Kim Jong has to talk tough because you can bet there's someone in the wings waiting to pounce at the slightest sign of weakness and Donald has invested so much time slamming Obama et al for not being strong enough.Talks[behind the scenes possibly]to solve the issue where it appears both leaders have got the best deal whilst unlikely should be tried before too many buttons are pressed and there's no turning back.North Korea in a stand alone fight would I think be on a hiding to nothing,but if it came to a shooting war where would China and/or Russia stand?
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There is more than one way of skinning a cat. How to get rid of Kim without firing a shot.
Ex-Assistant of State worked on this under Obama.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/24/how-to-take-down-kim-jong-un-215411 (http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/24/how-to-take-down-kim-jong-un-215411)
:y :y :y
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Good article. :y
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they cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. If they do they will hold the world to ransom, and we will all live in constant fear, at an even higher level than we did during the cold war.
too late i think
If you are the President of a nation with awesome fire power what would you now do? Wait like the leaders of Britain and France did in 1938 into 1939 and be seen by the aggressor as being weak and just hot air until the inevitable happens? Or strike first and make sure the aggressor knows you mean business, that in 1938 would have stopped Hitler from taking the opportunist steps he did that eventually led to WW2 on September 3rd 1939?
just swap the word "President" above for "Supreme Leader" and re-read that :o
It doesn't work as The President of the USA does have massive firepower that the kid in NK can only dream about ;)
just 1 nuclear bomb is massive fire power in my book :o
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
not true it is very difficult to kill a dictator in their own country. the us bombed every motorhome in iraq after saddam did a video from one, didn't get him. look how long it took them to find him after 'mission accomplished'.
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
not true it is very difficult to kill a dictator in their own country. the us bombed every motorhome in iraq after saddam did a video from one, didn't get him. look how long it took them to find him after 'mission accomplished'.
Not so sure its that difficult,someone offed his brother easily enough :-X
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If they wanted him dead, he could be. Before the kettle boils.
They obviously don't, so he isn't.
Same with Assad...
not true it is very difficult to kill a dictator in their own country. the us bombed every motorhome in iraq after saddam did a video from one, didn't get him. look how long it took them to find him after 'mission accomplished'.
Not so sure its that difficult,someone offed his brother easily enough :-X
his brother wasn't a head of state just a bloke passing unprotected through a foreign airport. easy ::).
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last major action in korea was Operation Paul Bunyan. Took general stillwell 2 days to plan. involved:
- the US going from DefCon 4 to defcon 3.
- convoy of 23 vehicles with 813 soldiers.
- two 30-man security platoons
- a team of bridge demolition saboteurs
- a 64 man special forces company
- 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters
- B-52 Stratofortresses, described as "nuclear ready" from Guam
- escorted by U.S. F-4 Phantom IIs , F-5 and F-86 fighters
- F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing F-4 Phantoms C and D were also deployed
- The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force just offshore.
- the Second Battalion, 71st Air Defense Regiment armed with Hawk missiles
- In addition, 12,000 additional troops were ordered to Korea, including 1,800 Marines from Okinawa.[6] During the operation, nuclear-capable strategic bombers circled
What was the object? To cut down a tree. You couldn't make this stuff up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_murder_incident
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last major action in korea was Operation Paul Bunyan. Took general stillwell 2 days to plan. involved:
- the US going from DefCon 4 to defcon 3.
- convoy of 23 vehicles with 813 soldiers.
- two 30-man security platoons
- a team of bridge demolition saboteurs
- a 64 man special forces company
- 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters
- B-52 Stratofortresses, described as "nuclear ready" from Guam
- escorted by U.S. F-4 Phantom IIs , F-5 and F-86 fighters
- F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing F-4 Phantoms C and D were also deployed
- The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force just offshore.
- the Second Battalion, 71st Air Defense Regiment armed with Hawk missiles
- In addition, 12,000 additional troops were ordered to Korea, including 1,800 Marines from Okinawa.[6] During the operation, nuclear-capable strategic bombers circled
What was the object? To cut down a tree. You couldn't make this stuff up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe_murder_incident
I note that was in 1976, so a long time ago. However, as the Korean war has never been over, the killing of two American soldiers set off established reactions to a possible re-commencement of hostilities. This was during the Cold War and so the USA would not wish to be perceived as being weak and doing nothing. Instead they launched a full response to a war like act of aggression. This "report" should be of no surprise to us who lived through the Cold War.
Also remember this was just 14 years after the Cuban Missiles Crisis when we all came to the very brink of WW3 starting, and only the tough talking and action of the American President, J.F. Kennedy, to the Russian President, Khrushchev, narrowly avoided conflict. Indeed this started a new understanding between the two super powers, with even the installation of a telephone hotline between the two on the suggestion of JFK.
So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
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its was all just to cut down this tree
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Members_of_2nd_Engineer_Battalion_begin_to_cut_down_the_tree.jpg)
even with all that force took them 42 minutes. you think they could have just blown it up or bombed it. 8)
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
When have you ever seen or heard Trump look up from the latest copy of Pussy magazine to quote off-the-cuff history? ::) :o ;D
The undercurrent that constantly comes out from the WH is that a carpet is thrown over the decision makers and you know whose views has prevailed by whose bones are pushed out and their 'resignation' is announced. :o :o :o
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
Nope! ::) ;D
He opens his mouth before engaging gear, without any thought or consideration and as to his advisors, I'm sure that they have been advising him for 7 months now not to use Twitter without running his Tweets by them first? ::)
That said, North Korea has made a direct threat against his country and I think he is right to be forthright. North Korea needs to be in no doubt of the consequences of attacking the USA! ;)
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
Nope! ::) ;D
He opens his mouth before engaging gear, without any thought or consideration and as to his advisors, I'm sure that they have been advising him for 7 months now not to use Twitter without running his Tweets by them first? ::)
That said, North Korea has made a direct threat against his country and I think he is right to be forthright. North Korea needs to be in no doubt of the consequences of attacking the USA! ;)
[/highlight]
Exactly. That is what Kennedy did in 1962, and faced up to the CCCP. Trump is no fool, in spite of how he seems to act at times. He knows what he is doing, but is not held back by normal political standards, so seems out of line with the norm which so many Americans love. Kennedy had been a combatant in WW2, and like Trump did not conform with convention. As those around him shuddered and shook as he faced up to Krushchev and risked nuclear conflict. Americans loved him, as growing numbers are loving Trump's stance. :y
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Just, a small point Lizzie (hope i don,t appear to be nitpicking), but Khrushchev was in fact Chairman of the Communist party of the USSR, not a President as such. He was still the head honcho though ;D
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Just, a small point Lizzie (hope i don,t appear to be nitpicking), but Khrushchev was in fact Chairman of the Communist party of the USSR, not a President as such. He was still the head honcho though ;D
You are right, he was at the time referred to as the "Premier" of the Soviet Union, but it is easier to describe him as the President as effectively he did control the country as an American President does, but in a communist fashion involving "committees" and then the main executive branch of government headed by the leader/premier/president, instead of the democratic system of political controlling "houses"; Representatives, Senate and Congress headed by the leader, the president.
I would add to my previous post that like Kennedy, Trump is a "can do, will do" President. ;)
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
Nope! ::) ;D
He opens his mouth before engaging gear, without any thought or consideration and as to his advisors, I'm sure that they have been advising him for 7 months now not to use Twitter without running his Tweets by them first? ::)
That said, North Korea has made a direct threat against his country and I think he is right to be forthright. North Korea needs to be in no doubt of the consequences of attacking the USA! ;)
[/highlight]
Exactly. That is what Kennedy did in 1962, and faced up to the CCCP. Trump is no fool, in spite of how he seems to act at times. He knows what he is doing, but is not held back by normal political standards, so seems out of line with the norm which so many Americans love. Kennedy had been a combatant in WW2, and like Trump did not conform with convention. As those around him shuddered and shook as he faced up to Krushchev and risked nuclear conflict. Americans loved him, as growing numbers are loving Trump's stance. :y
We found out much later that kennedy actually did a secret deal with Krushchev: 'you remove your missiles from Cuba and we'll remove the Jupiter nuclear missiles we already have in Turkey (right next to Russia) and in Italy'
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So, the latest crisis is nothing new and, no doubt, Trump is considering what happened in 1962 and deciding on the "tough talking approach" that worked then. ;)
That's funny Lizzie! ;D ::)
I very much doubt that Trump considers anything from the past or even has much knowledge of it to be honest! ::)
He's just saying what comes into his head at the time without any thought for the consequences! ;D
So you don't think, that as an American of the right age he remembers that past crisis, with advisers all around him that would be considering that historic moment and advising him on what to do / say, that will not feature at all in his actions? :-\ :-\
All leaders with any sense at all, and especially those of a country like the USA, will always consider history in their calculations. Look at the similarities between the current crisis and the one of 1962. Yes, NK is hardly the CCCP, but the leader has the same agenda as Khrushchev: to test the Superpower to the limit and see who blinks first ;)
Nope! ::) ;D
He opens his mouth before engaging gear, without any thought or consideration and as to his advisors, I'm sure that they have been advising him for 7 months now not to use Twitter without running his Tweets by them first? ::)
That said, North Korea has made a direct threat against his country and I think he is right to be forthright. North Korea needs to be in no doubt of the consequences of attacking the USA! ;)
[/highlight]
Exactly. That is what Kennedy did in 1962, and faced up to the CCCP. Trump is no fool, in spite of how he seems to act at times. He knows what he is doing, but is not held back by normal political standards, so seems out of line with the norm which so many Americans love. Kennedy had been a combatant in WW2, and like Trump did not conform with convention. As those around him shuddered and shook as he faced up to Krushchev and risked nuclear conflict. Americans loved him, as growing numbers are loving Trump's stance. :y
We found out much later that kennedy actually did a secret deal with Krushchev: 'you remove your missiles from Cuba and we'll remove the Jupiter nuclear missiles we already have in Turkey (right next to Russia) and in Italy'
Correct, and that laid the foundations of an easing of the Cold War threat, although other "near misses" took place in the 1970's. Thankfully a new understanding between the two powers grew (MAD was eventually concluded as the outcome of any nuclear exchange) and many pressures within the CCCP led to a political implosion.
Will this type of breakdown transpire in the miniature NK? If Trump maintains the rhetoric and sanctions action in tandem then it could well do.
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Has anyone here actually considered how many nuclear bombs have actually been detonated on our poor little planet already ?? the answer might surprise you immensely...
This video is really frightening in its own way .. and it only goes as far as 1998 ... so 20 years of more detonations missing ...
http://www.ctbto.org/specials/1945-1998-by-isao-hashimoto
More up-to-date information ..
http://www.ctbto.org/nuclear-testing/history-of-nuclear-testing/nuclear-testing-1945-today
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Has anyone here actually considered how many nuclear bombs have actually been detonated on our poor little planet already ?? the answer might surprise you immensely...
When bored one day you can play "spot the crater" in the US using Google Maps..
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Has anyone here actually considered how many nuclear bombs have actually been detonated on our poor little planet already ?? the answer might surprise you immensely...
This video is really frightening in its own way .. and it only goes as far as 1998 ... so 20 years of more detonations missing ...
http://www.ctbto.org/specials/1945-1998-by-isao-hashimoto
More up-to-date information ..
http://www.ctbto.org/nuclear-testing/history-of-nuclear-testing/nuclear-testing-1945-today
I often say man doesn't deserve Earth. Those numbers and dogged "testing" just confirm my view. Lord of the Flies but on a global scale.
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Has anyone here actually considered how many nuclear bombs have actually been detonated on our poor little planet already ?? the answer might surprise you immensely...
This video is really frightening in its own way .. and it only goes as far as 1998 ... so 20 years of more detonations missing ...
http://www.ctbto.org/specials/1945-1998-by-isao-hashimoto
More up-to-date information ..
http://www.ctbto.org/nuclear-testing/history-of-nuclear-testing/nuclear-testing-1945-today
I often say man doesn't deserve Earth. Those numbers and dogged "testing" just confirm my view. Lord of the Flies but on a global scale.
Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
It is calculated that the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs 65 million years ago was equal to 10 million Hiroshima bombs
The explosion that destroyed Krakatoa in 1883, and created the loudest sound ever recorded on Earth, heard up to 3,000 miles away, was 13,000 times more powerful than the bomb that devastated Hiroshima in 1945.
But earlier, in 1815, By far, the largest and largest natural explosion in recorded history was the Mount Tambora Volcanic eruption. It’s blast was equivalent to 800 megatons of TNT. 4 times more energy than Krakatoa.
Compare that to the largest nuclear explosion** which was a meager 50 megatons and you can see just how big this natural blast was. It was so loud, it could be heard over 1600 miles away. That’s the distance from New York to Denver. It sent so much ash into the atmosphere, that the next year was called ‘The year without a summer‘.
** and that "largest nuclear explosion" was the great ‘Tsar Bomba’. The bomb was tested on October 30, 1961, in Novaya Zemlya, an archipelago in the Arctic Sea. Originally planned to be 100 megatons, it was actually scaled down to 50 megatons due to technical problems with detonation and due to concerns with fallout.
The explosion was equal to 1,400 times the combined power of the two atomic bombs used in WW2. It would have caused 3rd degree burns 62 miles away and the mushroom cloud was 7 times higher than Mount Everest. The explosion could be seen and felt in Finland. The seismic shock created by the detonation was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth. The bomb weighed a whopping 27 tons. Which means it’s to impractical to use in any war capacity.
However, so far nature has far outpaced man for explosive destruction, and long may that be so! ;)
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I don't see your point, Lizzie. If Yellowstone ever let go, it could be the end of mankind. Should we be trying to emulate that? So...nature can make bigger bangs than we can, but neither is particularly desirable.
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Using nature as a way to justify MAD is, er, mad ::)
Natural events are releases of tension in a delicately balance system far beyond our control, if not influence.
Mankind, a cracking oxymoron if ever there was, is rather ingenious... Always has been and always will be, but as ever there are people who will use this ingenuity for personal or disruptive gain.
Natural forces are balancing, not driven by greed, and there in lies the difference :y
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I don't see your point, Lizzie. If Yellowstone ever let go, it could be the end of mankind. Should we be trying to emulate that? So...nature can make bigger bangs than we can, but neither is particularly desirable.
My point was that Varche stated:
"I often say man doesn't deserve Earth. Those numbers and dogged "testing" just confirm my view. Lord of the Flies but on a global scale"
.......and I am just stating that nature can be far more violent than man, and man is just part of nature with a natural tenancy for war, so man DOES deserve the Earth and we all suffer together ;)
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Using nature as a way to justify MAD is, er, mad ::)
Natural events are releases of tension in a delicately balance system far beyond our control, if not influence.
Mankind, a cracking oxymoron if ever there was, is rather ingenious... Always has been and always will be, but as ever there are people who will use this ingenuity for personal or disruptive gain.
Natural forces are balancing, not driven by greed, and there in lies the difference :y
I have answered your post in the reply to STEMO. We ARE all part of nature, with all the inherent failings we have, man being naturally war like and mimicking nature in his attempt to destroy the other, who ever the other is. Nature can just do it better, in a far more comprehensive manner that does not favour one or the other.
So, the fact man has created so many nuclear explosions across the world is of no surprise, and just remember nature will always kick back in a far harder and tougher way ;)
In no way am I justifying MAD, but some in this world still have not learnt that one!
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
I thought that was alien objectives?
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
I thought that was alien objectives?
Ok, I will get "heavy" now and add when I say "nature" I mean GOD ::) ::) :D ;)
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
I thought that was alien objectives?
Ok, I will get "heavy" now and add when I say "nature" I mean GOD ::) ::) :D ;)
Oh dear...you just lost all credibility.
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
I thought that was alien objectives?
Ok, I will get "heavy" now and add when I say "nature" I mean GOD ::) ::) :D ;)
You mean like in nature we all know a DOG is a man's best friend. ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
STEMO loves his whippet, even after clearing up its wicked, sinful, business. :-X :-X :-X ;D ;D ;D
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Just remember though that nature has used catastrophic explosions on the Earth to achieve it's objectives:
Nature has objectives? :o Who knew?! ::) ;D
Yep, everything on from wiping out the dinosaurs ;)
I thought that was alien objectives?
Ok, I will get "heavy" now and add when I say "nature" I mean GOD ::) ::) :D ;)
Oh dear...you just lost all credibility.
Credibility on this forum? That's a joke! ;D ;D ;D