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[omega2018]

Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently.

could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population

[TheBoy]

Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently.

could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population

You fail to grasp there are not enough well off people to pay for the ever increasing number of spongers.  And why should those 5 pay for everybody who thinks the world just owes them?

Then ethics aside, if you were a rich person, and you were told you by the government that you had to give it all away to people who will just burn through it with no end gain, what would you do? Probably leave the country, taking you wealth out of reach of said government. Leaving even fewer well off people in the country.


I do love to hear from the money tree believers.

[omega2018]

Just to cheer TB up, by 2020, everybody in employment in the UK that pays tax will be paying £1000+pa in the form of £13bn pa to keep dictators in power, with the lifestyle they expect with foreign aid and £17bn pa to give the tree huggers a rosy glow where it will subsidise useless windmills etc. which will save the planet, apparently.

could always get 5 men on the planet to cover all that https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/12/now-just-five-men-own-almost-much-wealth-half-worlds-population

You fail to grasp there are not enough well off people to pay for the ever increasing number of spongers. 

which part of "Now Just Five Men Own Almost as Much Wealth as Half the World's Population" are you finding it difficult to understand?

[Doctor Gollum]

They aren't here paying taxes to support the system, ergo are irrelevant...

...for the purpose of this exercise whatever that is

[Sir Tigger KC]

Up the revolution comrades!   

[Doctor Gollum]

Up the revolution comrades!   

Duck fat.

[biggriffin]

The new Labour MP for Kensington, in her previous job as a councillor, was on the housing scrutiny committee which oversaw the refurb of the flats.
You can bet your arse she wont carry the can for anything. 

Can't beat a good conspiracy's...

I bet rods2 could find a far fetched news article, or other interweb based report to try. As I keep saying and many of us do on here   TB for parliament   

[Lizzie Zoom]

LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.

And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from?  Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor.  So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?


Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building 

Why TB are you assuming all those who lived in these flats are spongers?  Many of those have jobs, all be it not well paid ones.

I have known  grown up knowing people who live in "social housing" and 99% have jobs.  I live in a flat within what is considered "social housing", although many flats are privately leased.  I worked all my life until retirement, and now enjoy a healthy company pension reflecting my efforts. Many in my block either works, or like me are retired.  If I lost my flat because the whole block was destroyed, would you call me a "sponger" who is not entitled to help,  Remember, all of us are just one step away from losing everything and ending up on the street.

[Lizzie Zoom]

LZ, why is it one rule for the spongers in life, and another for those who manage to get by without handouts.

And where is that £5500 x 80-90 flats going to come from?  Any finance specialist will make sure it doesn't come from the contractor.  So, its going to come from the taxes I pay, which will mean that authority will have even less money. And, I repeat, why wouldn't I have been entitled to it? Because I paid for some insurance? Or because I'm not in Manchester/London, so the media don't give a shit?



Maybe I should have rioted around the local council building 

Oh dear, I feel I may upset you again. It's £5500 per person, not per flat 

    No, I did just round down to that figure as really that is the amount many are questioning.  The £500 is being paid now, but that does not seem to be so contentious.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Just on the news: survivors can get £500 in cash straight away, and £5000 paid into their bank accounts on Monday. This money is not for accommodation costs or fuel costs etc.
Imagine going to sign on at the benefit office on Tuesday. Hello, Mr Smith, we understand you've had a bit of a windfall. Fill in this form, there's a good chap.

Would the government have given me £550 if I'd lost the house?  No bloody chance     

OK TB, swap places with one of those tenants who have lost everything, had their families put at risk, even losing a member or two. Is £5,000 a lot of money then?

The contents of my flat alone I insure for up to £50K, as £5,000 would only just about cover the cost of furnishing and re-equipping the front room 

I feel no anger about what these poor sods get, who were failed miserably by the people who were responsible for the refurbishment, and only feel very sad that they have had to go through such an ordeal.   Let the government pay them the money, then reclaim it back from the contractors as they are found guilty of gross negligence and manslaughter.

would you say that if it were found that the council instructed the contractor to use that cladding or that the council in their duty to enforce building control, failed to enforce? it is easy to blame the contractor but the council have the statutory building control duty.  what if the contractor proposed those materials and the council agreed as their customer?

my hunch is that a proportion of blame rests with the council - just not sure home much.

I agree entirely, and for me it should be automatic that any official who got this so wrong, with especially perhaps back handers involved, must also be prosecuted.

[Lizzie Zoom]

Up the revolution comrades!   

...........and that is what is always the risk, always has been, in our so called democratic capitalist system, that yes, I fully engaged with during my working life, but actually can be very unjust for those at the bottom of the social scale.  BUT, as Churchill once said about democracy solely quoting previous statements on it by others:

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

But he also stated with his partial non-socialist hat on:

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

Whatever, the truth is that this country has been on the brink of revolution over at least the last 200 years, but government legislation and small actions have pushed the threats away.  As Brexit and the General Election proved the people want the power that successive governments and politicians have denied them and now are telling them what they really want.  This terrible tower block fire, and especially the aftermath with a lack of authorities practical help, has stirred up the feeling yet again that it is one law for the wealthy and the poor have to take whatever is thrown down to them. The people are fed up with lies and poor leadership that gives them nothing and often makes their lives worse.

I am not saying the answer is in violent protest, but the politicians have to recognise small things are really stirring up the people and making them angry. 

Going back to the tower block aftermath and this £500 that the families are going to receive immediately; a report yesterday highlighted the case of one family head who went to collect his payment. It was not available, so he was told to come back. When he did come back he was told no cash was left for him to receive his £500, but he should go home and await the payment which would be delivered to him. It was, by expensive courier; a £20 note in an envelop.

Now this story was featured on ITV.  I cannot verify the truth of it of course.  But it is an example of how the people are being wound up by apparent government, local authority, mis-management and inconsiderate actions.  All it takes is one spark to ignite the powder keg of the masses.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I know everyone loathes the Daily hate Mail, but Littlejohn talks a lot of sense (imo) on this and the general state of affairs at the moment.
I think even TB would like it ! 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4619728/RIHCARD-LITTLEJOHN-says-democracy-hanging-thread.html

[STEMO]

More people saw this daily mail than the real one yesterday 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40330159

[STEMO]

I know everyone loathes the Daily hate Mail, but Littlejohn talks a lot of sense (imo) on this and the general state of affairs at the moment.
I think even TB would like it ! 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4619728/RIHCARD-LITTLEJOHN-says-democracy-hanging-thread.html

You don't have to read that, you can view similar tripe any day, on here. 

[STEMO]

No doubt we'll be getting articles from Peter Hitchens soon. 
Tempered, of course, with quotes from Chairman Mao.