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[grifter]

Ok, so I've read over most of the stuff I can find on here about the timing belt kits, including Chrisp from the cavalier forum's (which I am a member) post:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=147662.msg1965804#msg1965804

Just to make sure I am understanding this right:

I've bought kit K015453XS and I understand this is a 2.5 kit (mine's a 2.6 02 plate), but you can swap the tensioner and upper idler from your old backplate to the new one?

Reason I ask is on the old plate, the distance between the idler and tensioner is greater than the new plate, the code on my old plate is 6B, the new one is EB. I also need to use the yellow marking on the belt to line up the crank pulley (there's a white double line and yellow double line near each other on belt), and white markings on the left bank of cams and a mix of white and yellow marks on the right bank of cams.

Cheers

Andrew

[Doctor Gollum]

The pullies are the same, so reuse your existing back plate with the new pullies.

The markings on the belt are only there to make it look complicated.

Fit the belt with the double white lines at the 6 o'clock position on the crank.

Finally, don't even think about doing the job without the complete locking kit. 

The forum dvd is a pretty handy visual aid as well, and worth alot more than it costs. (the fact that its sales help keep the lights on notwithstanding  ).

[grifter]

The pullies are the same, so reuse your existing back plate with the new pullies.

The markings on the belt are only there to make it look complicated.

Fit the belt with the double white lines at the 6 o'clock position on the crank.

Finally, don't even think about doing the job without the complete locking kit. 

The forum dvd is a pretty handy visual aid as well, and worth alot more than it costs. (the fact that its sales help keep the lights on notwithstanding  ).

Got the DVD first time I did it, so referring to it again. Plus I've got the proper kent-moore locking kit so 

[Doctor Gollum]

Good to go then

[grifter]

Wee issue, got the double white lines at 6 on the crank, fed the belt round clockwise, white lines match the left bank of cams, not on the right though, the white lines on the belt are about 10 teeth short of the cam markings, just ignore those as long as got both cam markings lined up?

[Doctor Gollum]

That would be my first thought presuming the belt is the right way round if it has direction arrows on it...

Others might have another take on it...

[grifter]

Arrows on correct direction, clockwise.

I then put the belt on and now seem to have too much slack, if that's possible, at the tensioner, it doesn't hit any resistance when I turn it anti-clockwise. I've made a video of the set up as it is just now.

Double checked the mark on bottom of crank, each bank of cams line up with the big plate checker thing, and put the locks back in the cams.

https://andrew-cars.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/omega/Videos/Omega-Timing-Belt-Loose%5B1%5D.mp4

[chrisp]

Ok, so I've read over most of the stuff I can find on here about the timing belt kits, including Chrisp from the cavalier forum's (which I am a member) post:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=147662.msg1965804#msg1965804
Just to make sure I am understanding this right:
I've bought kit K015453XS and I understand this is a 2.5 kit (mine's a 2.6 02 plate), but you can swap the tensioner and upper idler from your old backplate to the new one?
Reason I ask is on the old plate, the distance between the idler and tensioner is greater than the new plate, the code on my old plate is 6B, the new one is EB. I also need to use the yellow marking on the belt to line up the crank pulley (there's a white double line and yellow double line near each other on belt), and white markings on the left bank of cams and a mix of white and yellow marks on the right bank of cams.
Cheers
Andrew

Yes, after much to-ing and fro-ing with Gates support, I've concluded that it's best to replace the tensioner pulley and other pulley on the old backplate with the new ones that come with the new backplate, and leave the old backplate in place. This is NOT what Gates advised, which was to replace the old backplate with its old pulley with the new one and its new pulleys, even though the pulley spacings on it are different.
As several people have said it's not strictly necessary to bother with the white & yellow markings on the belt. However, Gates advised that the use of white or yellow markings depends upon the position of the OTHER pulley (the one immediately up from the crankshaft in an anti-clockwise direction). For earlier engines (up to 1999, with the pulley in a lower position) only the white markings should be used throughout, but for later engines (post 1999, with the pulley higher the yellow markings on the belt should be lined up with the marks on crankshaft and those on the LH two camshafts (as you look at the engine from the front), while the white markings should line up with the marks on the RH two camshafts. I have to say it's difficult to understand this when the only difference is the position of the other pulley, which, if you're fitting the cambelt in an clockwise direction has not been contacted before you line up all the markings, but that was Gate's advice.
It probably doesn't matter as long as the crankshaft and cambelt markings are all lined up, and there is no slack in the belt between the two camshaft banks and the crankshaft.
The other uncertainty I face is that my early (1993) V6 engine has a tensioner pulley without an outer flange. This design was subsequently modified by Vauxhall/Opel to include an outer flange as well as the inner one, apparently because the flangeless pulley sometimes allowed the cambelt to ride out slightly and scuff against the plastic cover. You now cannot obtain the flangeless pulley, so I am assuming that it’ll be OK to replace mine with the fully flanged pulley in the kit. Gates were no help with this issue – saying that they had no records of the flangeless pulley.

[grifter]

Yes, after much to-ing and fro-ing with Gates support, I've concluded that it's best to replace the tensioner pulley and other pulley on the old backplate with the new ones that come with the new backplate, and leave the old backplate in place. This is NOT what Gates advised, which was to replace the old backplate with its old pulley with the new one and its new pulleys, even though the pulley spacings on it are different.
As several people have said it's not strictly necessary to bother with the white & yellow markings on the belt. However, Gates advised that the use of white or yellow markings depends upon the position of the OTHER pulley (the one immediately up from the crankshaft in an anti-clockwise direction). For earlier engines (up to 1999, with the pulley in a lower position) only the white markings should be used throughout, but for later engines (post 1999, with the pulley higher the yellow markings on the belt should be lined up with the marks on crankshaft and those on the LH two camshafts (as you look at the engine from the front), while the white markings should line up with the marks on the RH two camshafts. I have to say it's difficult to understand this when the only difference is the position of the other pulley, which, if you're fitting the cambelt in an clockwise direction has not been contacted before you line up all the markings, but that was Gate's advice.
It probably doesn't matter as long as the crankshaft and cambelt markings are all lined up, and there is no slack in the belt between the two camshaft banks and the crankshaft.
The other uncertainty I face is that my early (1993) V6 engine has a tensioner pulley without an outer flange. This design was subsequently modified by Vauxhall/Opel to include an outer flange as well as the inner one, apparently because the flangeless pulley sometimes allowed the cambelt to ride out slightly and scuff against the plastic cover. You now cannot obtain the flangeless pulley, so I am assuming that it’ll be OK to replace mine with the fully flanged pulley in the kit. Gates were no help with this issue – saying that they had no records of the flangeless pulley.

The first thing I do with any new belt is check it against the old one by turning it inside out and stretching it against the new one with a screwsdriver at each end to stretch it out, to make sure it's the same length, with some stretch from the old belt taken into account.

I've done this with this kit and seems comparable, but now that the tensioner appears not to be pushing against the new belt leads me to think the new belt is longer, and the shorter backplate is required. The shorter gap between the tensioner and pulley would take up the slack that my current tensioner can't take out.

However I've checked the belt and it seems same length, this is what I'm wondering about, it's like a paradox of the gates kit!

My original plate says 6B on it, according to the video the later plates should say I think it was 01 or something, whatever it was it wasn't 6B.

The original plate from the first belt change was 6B as well so the one I just took off is the correct one to use.

[Nick W]

Wee issue, got the double white lines at 6 on the crank, fed the belt round clockwise, white lines match the left bank of cams, not on the right though, the white lines on the belt are about 10 teeth short of the cam markings, just ignore those as long as got both cam markings lined up?

Make it easy on yourself: get a black Sharpie and colour in any lines on the belt.


Then install it using just the timing kit.


The belts are the same, but the different backing plate/pulley combinations aren't in the same place.

[grifter]

Looks like I'm going to need to start again as top and bottom out of line now, will start with no 1 at TDC and go from there.

[grifter]

So after resetting it all from no1 tdc, rotate engine and then check cams line up the left bank is out a bit, so I tried turning the pulley adjuster anti-clockwise as per the video and it won't take the cams fully forward to line up to marks, only so far, it's moved about half way to the marks and won't go any further.

What's the solution for that?

[Doctor Gollum]

Take it off and start again.

[Enceladus]

The belts on all of the V6 variants are the same length. 1800mm x 30 mm, 225 teeth at 8mm pitch. This applies no matter what types of backplate, tensioner and idler rollers were fitted at the factory.

The Gates K015453XS includes a lower roller with eccentric adjustment. The Y26XE you have probably has a lower idler roller with no eccentric adjustment.

The Gates included backplate is intended for '97 on X25XE and X30XE and as a retrofit to pre '97 V6 including the C25XE in Calibra and Vectra. So swap the new upper roller and tensioner onto your existing backplate.

Fit the new lower roller, but make sure to use the correct spacer washer and bolt. Can't remember if these are the ones currently on the car or the new ones in the kit. You'll have to work that out.
Fit the belt clockwise and observe the rotation arrows on the belt.
The high point on the lower idler roller's eccentric should be set to about 2 o'clock. That should remove the slack between the nearside exhaust cam and the lower idler. Tighten the bolt to 40Nm.
Set the upper idler eccentric to 11 o'clock. That should remove any slack between the offside and nearside inlet cams. Tighten the bolt to 40Nm.
Then follow the procedure for adjusting the tensioner, rotating the crank, checking the cams with the timing gauge etc.

[Nick W]

So after resetting it all from no1 tdc, rotate engine and then check cams line up the left bank is out a bit, so I tried turning the pulley adjuster anti-clockwise as per the video and it won't take the cams fully forward to line up to marks, only so far, it's moved about half way to the marks and won't go any further.

What's the solution for that?

You are using the timing tools?
Ensure that you are using a matched set of pulleys and backing plate.


Fit the crank lock.
Adjust the cam pulleys using the gauge, and fit the cam locks.


Run the belt around all of the pulleys, ensuring it's tight along all of the belt runs.
Check that all the adjustable pulleys are in the centre of their range of movement. If they're not, remove the belt, reset the pulleys then the belt and check again.


Now you can start to time the belt, by removing the locks and turning the engine through adjusting as necessary. If you have the belt tensioned correctly before removing the locks, you shouldn't need much adjustment

[Enceladus]

Did you use the new lower roller with eccentric and adjust it initially to two o'clock? Or even mid position.

You need to remove the slack from the nearside exhaust cam to the bottom roller first. Whilst the cams are still locked with Nr 1 at TDC.

Then do the upper idler roller to 11 o'clock whilst the cams are still locked with Nr 1 at TDC. That will remove the slack between both inlet cams and the upper idler. Then carry on with the tensioner, rotating and checking etc.

[Enceladus]

I've just looked at your video. The upper eccentric idler/roller is too far clockwise. Looks like one or two o'clock. Should be around eleven o'clock.
The lower idler is also too far clockwise, bit hard to say but looks like you have it at three or four o'clock. Should be around two o'clock.

So I suggest you start again.

Put the cam locks in with the marks aligned and Nr 1 at TDC. Also the crank lock at TDC and locked.
You need to release the tensioner back to it's starting position.
Turn both the eccentrics to minimum.
Install the belt clockwise.
Then turn the lower idler anti-clockwise to two o'clock and tighten the bolt.
Then turn the upper idler anti-clockwise to  to eleven o'clock and tighten the bolt.
Then rotate the tensioner anti-clockwise to get tension in the belt.
Remove the wedge and the cam locks and the crank lock.
Then go through the rotate engine, check and adjust procedure etc and use the timing gauge. Pay attention to the indicator on the tensioner. Shouldn't require much adjustment.

[grifter]

You are using the timing tools?


Yes, a Kent Moore kit

Ensure that you are using a matched set of pulleys and backing plate.

I'd taken the new pulleys off the new kit's plate and put them on my old plate.


Fit the crank lock.
Adjust the cam pulleys using the gauge, and fit the cam locks.



Run the belt around all of the pulleys, ensuring it's tight along all of the belt runs.
Check that all the adjustable pulleys are in the centre of their range of movement. If they're not, remove the belt, reset the pulleys then the belt and check again.


Now you can start to time the belt, by removing the locks and turning the engine through adjusting as necessary. If you have the belt tensioned correctly before removing the locks, you shouldn't need much adjustment

Aftering watching the video a wee bit and going to do the process each step, I realised i'd done the first tension after removing the cam locks, so that screwed up the positioning and tensions in other places. Reset it and done it again with all the cam lock in place. Seems to be ok now. Only minimal adjustments needed on the banks of cams and tensioner notch is in correct place, i.e. at top of the locator reference.

Cheers all for feedback.

[grifter]

Did you use the new lower roller with eccentric and adjust it initially to two o'clock? Or even mid position.

You need to remove the slack from the nearside exhaust cam to the bottom roller first. Whilst the cams are still locked with Nr 1 at TDC.

Then do the upper idler roller to 11 o'clock whilst the cams are still locked with Nr 1 at TDC. That will remove the slack between both inlet cams and the upper idler. Then carry on with the tensioner, rotating and checking etc.

Was going by the DVD, which had top roller at 12 o'clock, and bottom pulley at 3 o' clock.

[johnnydog]

At least you got an extremely helpful and detailed  reply from Enceladus! I'm very impressed with the effort he put in the replies to help you.
A tad more helpful than 'Take it off and start again'.

[Doctor Gollum]

The video explains and demonstrates the process far more eloquently than I ever could, especially when none of us are actually there with the car.

If something doesn't go right, taking it back a clear point is a sensible approach. In the case of a timing belt, that's usually starting over and working methodically through the steps.

So whilst on the face it, "Take it off and start over" might seem as terse, it is actually solid advice and was meant as such.

Regardless, it sounds like between the dvd and Enceladus the OP is sorted.