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Author Topic: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!  (Read 4866 times)

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GrahamK

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Changing out the Wishbones today and pleased to say they came out pretty much as expected. What I didn't expect was that some muppet has put a cut down M12 bolt where I believe an M13 should be. I didn't realise the first side, just thought that was a bit odd, but when I did the other it is clear that although the front and back bush bolts are slightly different lengths, they are both M13. Now as it happens I had a spare bolt of the correct type (thanks to a box of bits and pieces I bought off here) but no nut.
Has anyone got one in usable shape that they could drop in an envelope?

If anyone has, that would be much appreciated.  :y

I can't yet post in the wanted sections so if required, can the mods please move this.

Thanks,

Graham.
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johnnydog

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #1 on: 18 September 2020, 18:36:34 »

I've never heard of M13 bolts before...
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Nick W

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #2 on: 18 September 2020, 18:49:11 »

I've never heard of M13 bolts before...


There's a spec for M13, but why would anyone use it?


It's always worth checking when you're asked for a 10mm bolt/nut etc, because that's what many people call an M6 bolt with a 10mm head.


The M13 nut here might well be an M8.


Although having changed several wishbones, they certainly aren't M8. The bolts do have sized shoulders to fit in the bushes correctly, but the actual threads, or the nuts used don't look any thing special. Sorry,  non-preferred
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #3 on: 18 September 2020, 19:04:37 »

It requires a 21mm socket if that helps...
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #4 on: 18 September 2020, 19:21:55 »

If you are removing the wishbones then the rear vertical bolt is M14x1.5 x 77mm and the front horizontal is M14x1.5 x 88mm. 1.5mm is a fine metric thread.

The nuts are flanged distorted thread all-metal locknuts, M14x1.5. Hard to get anywhere other than Vauxhall.

As I recall the socket size is 21mm, might be wrong.

Or are you meaning some other bolts and nuts?
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Nick W

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #5 on: 18 September 2020, 19:40:01 »

If you are removing the wishbones then the rear vertical bolt is M14x1.5 x 77mm and the front horizontal is M14x1.5 x 88mm. 1.5mm is a fine metric thread.

The nuts are flanged distorted thread all-metal locknuts, M14x1.5. Hard to get anywhere other than Vauxhall.

As I recall the socket size is 21mm, might be wrong.

Or are you meaning some other bolts and nuts?


Even with the fine pitch(2mm is 'normal') that's a standard, readily available metric thread. A nyloc or other locking type nut should be easy(and cheap) to acquire. I would expect that to have a 22mm hex head. Use Loctite as well if you're paranoid.


Anyone specifying an M13 thread, without an exceptionally well calculated reason, should be stood in front of the rest of the engineering staff and repeatedly stabbed with the bloody thing....
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LC0112G

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #6 on: 18 September 2020, 21:15:07 »

I wonder if he's talking about the ball joint to steering knuckle pinch bolt? That's got a 13mm headed nut - Although doesn't have a flange as far as I can remember.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #7 on: 18 September 2020, 21:20:12 »

I wonder if he's talking about the ball joint to steering knuckle pinch bolt? That's got a 13mm headed nut - Although doesn't have a flange as far as I can remember.
I read it as one of the primary wishbone bolts...
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Nick W

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #8 on: 18 September 2020, 21:27:34 »

I wonder if he's talking about the ball joint to steering knuckle pinch bolt? That's got a 13mm headed nut - Although doesn't have a flange as far as I can remember.


That's a bolt that really needs to be a tight fit in the hole and especially the groove in the ball joint. If it isn't, the balljoint won't be properly secured, and unintended spontaneous explosive disassembly can occur.
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Alnico Blue

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #9 on: 18 September 2020, 21:34:03 »

Done my wishbones just recently . . .  seem to recall the 2  wishbone bush bolts are 21mm socket  and nuts are 22mm socket.   :-\
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #10 on: 18 September 2020, 22:02:20 »

13/16ths :D
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #11 on: 18 September 2020, 23:12:52 »

Hi all,
I am referring to the main front and rear bush bolts on the wishbones.

The diameter on the bolts according to my Vernier callipers is 13mm.
I'm not talking about the nut. That is a 21mm socket.
It may be M14 but the bolt used in my case for one of them is a mm or so smaller. I can't imagine that is a good idea.

I had a WIM appointment for Tuesday which I must now cancel. I see little point in spending A max of £135 plus vat (they charge per adjustment with £135 +VAT being the max) if one of the bush bolts is not a good fit.
Back to my original question- perhaps M14 not M13?

Regards,

Graham
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LC0112G

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #12 on: 19 September 2020, 00:06:19 »

When I did it 2 years ago, all the parts were still available from Vauxhall

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=141570.msg1843138#msg1843138

I think the nuts you're talking about are p/n VX90538056, and were £4.50 each, and come in a pack of 3.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=141588.msg1842943#msg1842943
« Last Edit: 19 September 2020, 00:08:24 by LC0112G »
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #13 on: 19 September 2020, 04:02:24 »

I may have one in my odds and sods, but no promises...
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #14 on: 19 September 2020, 09:43:22 »

 1 Take bolt to a fastener supplies,
 2 Ask the nice man do you have a bolt like this or similar, and a nylock too, thank you.
3 pay the man and leave.
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GrahamK

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #15 on: 19 September 2020, 09:43:40 »

Hi LC,

Thank you for confirming those details. I wish I had found those posts you linked to when I searched.  :y

Doc,

If you could have a look that would be very much appreciated.

My dealer has lost/given up the franchise since the Pug takeover and although they still have a parts department they seem even less interested than they were before.

Regards,

Graham.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #16 on: 19 September 2020, 09:55:06 »

1 Take bolt to a fastener supplies,
 2 Ask the nice man do you have a bolt like this or similar, and a nylock too, thank you.
3 pay the man and leave.


We've discussed this before, Trevor. That's simple, easy, cheap(£13.50 to get the one nut needed!!!!) and effective.


You can't make suggestions like that here!
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #17 on: 19 September 2020, 10:11:36 »

Done my wishbones just recently . . .  seem to recall the 2  wishbone bush bolts are 21mm socket  and nuts are 22mm socket.   :-\

 :-[ :-[Having a few memory issues at present time  . .  just checked these they are BOTH 21mm heads

maybe its the pinch bolt that has differing bolt and nut head size .

If you have changed wishbones  . . .can you not use your vernier to see what the bush size is in one of the old ones. As in . . . or how does the bolt fit into the bush.  Should be a sliding fit I would say and if it wobbles then it must be the wrong bolt .  Only my 2p worth of opinion.  ::)
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #18 on: 19 September 2020, 10:41:20 »

Pinch bolt is 16mm both ends...

May have been a quirk of available sockets for the main bolts :D
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #19 on: 19 September 2020, 10:51:41 »

Pinch bolt is 16mm both ends...

May have been a quirk of available sockets for the main bolts :D

In my case . . .  more like Senile Dementia setting in   ;D ;D ;D

Lets hope OP gets this  sorted to his satisfaction
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #20 on: 19 September 2020, 11:33:48 »

Thanks Alnico,

That's a good idea, didn't think of offering up the 'wrong bolt' into the wishbone bush now I have them off the car.
The M14 item is a snug push fit in the hole. The other one is as loose as hell, so could easily be an M12.
I'm guilty of a few non-critical bodges in my time, but a 2mm undersized bolt in a suspension arm seems to say the least unwise.
I'm surprised the car wasn't driving much worse.
Certainly with new struts, springs and wishbones (I'm also putting in a poly front bush) I'm hoping for a bit of a transformation.

No nuts as yet!

Graham.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #21 on: 19 September 2020, 11:42:25 »

Thanks Alnico,

That's a good idea, didn't think of offering up the 'wrong bolt' into the wishbone bush now I have them off the car.
The M14 item is a snug push fit in the hole. The other one is as loose as hell, so could easily be an M12.
I'm guilty of a few non-critical bodges in my time, but a 2mm undersized bolt in a suspension arm seems to say the least unwise.
I'm surprised the car wasn't driving much worse.
Certainly with new struts, springs and wishbones (I'm also putting in a poly front bush) I'm hoping for a bit of a transformation.

No nuts as yet!

Graham.


If it's not too late, replace the top mounts and bumpstops too. If you're not fitting new strut bearings, gently pry the plastic covers apart then clean and regrease the balls and races. Do this in a plastic tub so you don't lose any!


This will require a proper alignment session, but it all makes the car drive, ride and handle like new :y :y
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #22 on: 19 September 2020, 12:12:35 »

If the incorrect bolt is M12x?? or even M13x??, then the nut that came off it won't fit on any of the correct bolts which will be M14x1.5mm. So that would further confirm that it's incorrect.

You can get a pack of five similar nuts here for £10.99 inc 1st class post. Class 10 like the GM originals, but maybe not the exact same plating. Other pack quantities are available. A single nut seems to be £6.50, so you might as well have all new nuts.

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #23 on: 19 September 2020, 12:51:47 »

If the incorrect bolt is M12x?? or even M13x??, then the nut that came off it won't fit on any of the correct bolts which will be M14x1.5mm. So that would further confirm that it's incorrect.

You can get a pack of five similar nuts here for £10.99 inc 1st class post. Class 10 like the GM originals, but maybe not the exact same plating. Other pack quantities are available. A single nut seems to be £6.50, so you might as well have all new nuts.

Surely the OP is now gonna be looking for a new correct size wishbone  Nut AND bolt ?  :-\ :-\
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #24 on: 19 September 2020, 13:19:44 »

Thanks all Now Sorted

Enceladus-

Went for 5 new nuts for £10-80 Not a bad idea to use new nuts, if only to make the reassembly easier. Thanks for the link.

Nick W: -

I'd got new top mounts and bearings ready to go in. The top mounts are in good condition but I'll still change them as the struts are all apart. The bearings though were very gritty so I chucked those. I might fish them out of the bin and see if they can be cleaned and re-greased. Then I'll have a spare set of mounts and bearings.
The bump stops I'd not thought of. I'd not seen inside the strut before and didn't realise there were bump stops. I'd assumed it was just a corrugated cover to keep the muck off the damper shaft. When I did, one of them seemed to be full of sand. I thought the car had been doing do-nuts on a beach somewhere. When I looked closer, I realised that the rubber bump stops are degrading into sandy dust. managed to find a supplier of new bump stops. I'll re use the corrugated covers, as they are both in good condition.
The new Lemforder wishbones I'm picking up on Wednesday and other than the concern about getting the front bush out, should be good to go. My local tyre garage have got a 20 ton press and have agreed to press out the bush for me. Seems strange to remove a brand new bush, but I've bought the Poly bushes now, I might as well use them.

Alnico

Your right about the bolt, but I had a spare of the correct type, the bolt but not the nut

Thanks all.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #25 on: 19 September 2020, 13:32:42 »

Thanks all Now Sorted

Enceladus-

Went for 5 new nuts for £10-80 Not a bad idea to use new nuts, if only to make the reassembly easier. Thanks for the link.
Apologies. Looks like I made a mistake. I suggest you cancel that order as they may not be the locking type. Order these instead. Pack of four for £9.55. These are the locking type. From the same vendor.

Or here's a pack of five for £10.99.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2020, 13:50:11 by Enceladus »
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #26 on: 19 September 2020, 13:55:44 »

Graham,
if you've bought new top mounts and bearings then keeping the old ones is pointless.


I suggested the bumpstops because they've been knackered on every strut I've seen. The ones I've seen, and bought, came with the cover. While it's not intended to be part of the springing, it is there to protect the shock from being damaged by sudden bottoming out. That can only be a good thing.


Omega front suspension is fiddly and maintenance intensive, so it makes sense to spend the extra £40 per side and only have to work on it once.


The real reason for the poly bushes isn't a performance improvement - which I suspect is very small when compared to a good quality, new, stock bush - but for ease of fitting and them to last the life of the car. Those are the reasons why I've fitted them to other cars; I found that Capris needed new TCA(wishbone equivalent) bushes every MOT, swapping to polys meant I never needed to replace them again.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2020, 13:57:50 by Nick W »
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #27 on: 19 September 2020, 14:35:09 »

Thanks Enceladus,

I've done that and ordered the new ones.

Hats off to that supplier; -high_grade_steel_1 who immediately cancelled the order at my request and wished me a good afternoon. If only all Ebay sellers were as courteous and on the ball.
Graham.

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #28 on: 19 September 2020, 15:30:12 »

That bolt was the last of it... No nuts here for it.

But sounds like you're sorted so all good :y
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #29 on: 19 September 2020, 17:10:23 »

Thanks for looking Doc, but yes all sorted now.

I think four new nuts posted for under a tenner is a good result

I'm glad I bought that box of odds and sods off you.

There were two spare bolts for the wishbones of which one has come in handy. There were also new bolts which were correct for the rear shocks when I did those.

Cheers  :y
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #30 on: 19 September 2020, 17:12:42 »

No worries  :y
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #31 on: 23 September 2020, 19:33:23 »

Comic irony!

After all the to-ing and fro-ing I collected the Lemforder wishbones today and quess what was in the bag?

A new Strut clamp bolt & Nut and two M14 locknuts!!!!

Oh gawd
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #32 on: 23 September 2020, 19:41:39 »

Brilliant  ;D
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #33 on: 23 September 2020, 20:23:53 »

1 Take bolt to a fastener supplies,
 2 Ask the nice man do you have a bolt like this or similar, and a nylock too, thank you.
3 pay the man and leave.


We've discussed this before, Trevor. That's simple, easy, cheap(£13.50 to get the one nut needed!!!!) and effective.


You can't make suggestions like that here!


 Doh!! I had a momentarily fade,,  always buy genuine,...  Yes on certain parts but nuts n bolts, Use what ever I can find in my nut n bolt box Or go to fastener supplier.

Few years ago I changed nearly every bolt, washer and nut on a Truck to Stainless steel,  cost about £85.00. from fastener supplier.   :)
« Last Edit: 23 September 2020, 20:26:50 by biggriffin »
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #34 on: 23 September 2020, 22:58:42 »

Comic irony!

After all the to-ing and fro-ing I collected the Lemforder wishbones today and quess what was in the bag?

A new Strut clamp bolt & Nut and two M14 locknuts!!!!

Oh gawd
Only two? Two per side surely?
And are they Nyloc or all metal like the originals?
Did the others arrive and are they OK?
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #35 on: 24 September 2020, 11:45:07 »

Yes, per side. so now fully sorted! With spares!
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #36 on: 24 September 2020, 12:38:55 »

Sorry to hijack this post, but it is sort of relevant.  ;D

I contacted my local VX dealer, about the bolts that go through the wishbones. 90468500 and 90468501. The parts person checked on his system and vauxhall one for me. He came back and said these two bolts are no longer available. My question is can a M14 bolt that is 10.9 strength instead of 8.8 will work, if I need to replace? I understand that there are differences in breaking points and give etc. but would it make that much difference using them in this case, to replace the two wishbone bolts.

Thanks for any advice.
Addy
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Broomies Mate

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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #37 on: 24 September 2020, 16:46:59 »

10.9 is 'stronger' than 8.8.  There are certain applications where using 12.9 or 10.9 would be no good (Hydrogen embrittlement for electroplated bolts as an example), but for your wishbones, they will be fine, in fact, better than 8.8.  :y

edited to add: Amercian Site, But Good Info
« Last Edit: 24 September 2020, 16:59:18 by Broomies Mate »
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #38 on: 24 September 2020, 17:07:06 »

What you do need to be aware of is that the shank(the unthreaded length of the bolt) must be a tight fit in the metal sleeve of the bush. The OE bolts are stepped to do this, generic ones probably aren't .


This is even more critical for the pinch bolts, where balljoint is retained by the bolt fitting in the groove in the pin. Get that wrong, and it WILL disassemble unexpectedly.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #39 on: 24 September 2020, 17:07:12 »

Hi Addy,

No worries, the thread has just about finished anyway. However, if you haven't seen it, the length of the 2 bolts required is listed earlier in the thread and if you need one, I would recommend the fastening supplier mentioned. I used them for the nuts I ordered.
Regards,

Graham
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please
« Reply #40 on: 25 September 2020, 14:50:11 »

Hi

Thanks GrahamK, I have ordered the locking flange nuts, as suggest by Enceladus in his link.  Does everyone use the original wishbone bolts, if they look in OK condition?

Thanks everyone else, for your help. That is why I love coming on this forum. Everyone is helpfull and give great advice.

Everyone stay safe.
Addy
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #41 on: 25 September 2020, 15:14:05 »

I have only ever replaced one wishbone bolt and i thonk that was due wear :-\

That said, I havee replaced a couple of the ball joint pinch bolts due to corrosion, which may have partly been down to the previous owner misfitting them.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #42 on: 25 September 2020, 15:55:23 »

It's fine to reuse the original bolts if they're not too badly damaged or corroded. They're not stretch bolts. A quick once over with a fine wire brush will clean them up, if necessary.

The distorted ovoid thread locknuts are 'theoretically' a use once only design. That's probably why the Lemförder wishbones included new nuts but no bolts. However in practice the nuts can also be re-used, as they are heavy enough.
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Re: Help- Has anyone got a 13mm skirted nut in their spares box- Please!
« Reply #43 on: 25 September 2020, 19:17:00 »

This entire thread is the reason I have an entire four draw tool chest just for nuts, bolts and whatever shit I find 👍
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