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[Webby the Bear]

Hi guys,

Got the omega on the Hoffman alignment machine at work today. Front and rear toe was out. I adjusted front toe and everything moved well as they're relatively new track rod ends and I had greased the living shit out of them lol

Had a look at the rear track rods (which I presume need to move to adjust rear toe) and they look really old and I can't be bothered to free them up. I'm just gonna replace them. Where do I get them from though?

[TheBoy]

I bought GM. About £80 a side about 2yrs ago...  ...not that I've fitted them yet

[Webby the Bear]

Lol thanks TB. It is these that are moved to alter rear toe, right? That may seem like a dumb question but I don't think I've ever adjusted any rear alignment on any car. Ever. 


And when turned will I see camber alter also on the screen?

[TheBoy]

Lol thanks TB. It is these that are moved to alter rear toe, right? That may seem like a dumb question but I don't think I've ever adjusted any rear alignment on any car. Ever. 


And when turned will I see camber alter also on the screen?

For the rear, you're looking for a compromise between toe and camber, as this rod adjusts both.

Absolutely critical is the thrust angle is 0'00. 0'02 is nowhere near good enough, and I wouldn't be happy with 0'01

[terry paget]

You can free them with heat, a hammer, and a Stillson wrench. MOT testers occasionally advise of play in the end ball joints, but I have never suffered MOT failure because of it. I keep greased up spares on the shelf for that eventuality.

[Webby the Bear]

Lol thanks TB. It is these that are moved to alter rear toe, right? That may seem like a dumb question but I don't think I've ever adjusted any rear alignment on any car. Ever. 


And when turned will I see camber alter also on the screen?

For the rear, you're looking for a compromise between toe and camber, as this rod adjusts both.

Absolutely critical is the thrust angle is 0'00. 0'02 is nowhere near good enough, and I wouldn't be happy with 0'01

Got ya mate. So when I adjust it to bring the toe in I'll see it alter the camber too.

So how does one bring the thrust angle to spec? Will the adjustment of the track rods do this and it will be a bit of playing about to get the best compromise of toe, camber and thrust?

Ps please remember I'm not a WIM expert and I'm still learning this dang Hoffman so a lot of learning for me at the moment 😀👍

[TheBoy]

Get toe the same each side at rear will sort thrust.

You may not be able to get toe bang on spec without really cocking up camber, so there will be a compromise in most cases.  But thrust angle is critical on these.

[Webby the Bear]

Perfect explanation t.b. Cheers for that mate 

[terry paget]

May I assume thrust angle at zero is rear wheels parallel to front?

[TheBoy]

May I assume thrust angle at zero is rear wheels parallel to front?

Nope.

It means that if the car only had rear wheels, what angle it would go off at if pushed.

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

May I assume thrust angle at zero is rear wheels parallel to front?

Nope.

It means that if the car only had rear wheels, what angle it would go off at if pushed.

Makes perfect sense! 

[Webby the Bear]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

[05omegav6]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

Until you put a proper engine in it don't even go there

[terry paget]

May I assume thrust angle at zero is rear wheels parallel to front?

Nope.

It means that if the car only had rear wheels, what angle it would go off at if pushed.

I think that means parallel to each other and to an imaginary centre line of the car

[aaronjb]

May I assume thrust angle at zero is rear wheels parallel to front?

Nope.

It means that if the car only had rear wheels, what angle it would go off at if pushed.

I think that means parallel to each other and to an imaginary centre line of the car

Not necessarily parallel, that implies a toe of 0º0'. Basically the toe angle on both sides must simply be equal - therefore if both wheels toe in slightly then the point an imaginary line drawn through the centre of the tyres converges at should be exactly on the imaginary centre line of the car. Both dead ahead is also fine and both toeing out by exactly the same amount is also fine - all equate to a thrust angle of 0º0'.

[Mr Gav]

The rear tie rods also give it the passive rear wheel steering hence the void bush on the inner of the wishbone, this was the ACT system carried over from the Senator and Carltons.

[TheBoy]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

Nah, unless it was cocking miles out

[Webby the Bear]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

Nah, unless it was cocking miles out

Fair enough TB. worth asking though 

I need to pop over to you with my techII fee in hand (and I'll force it on you!) to test my multi Rams if you're free one day? 

[TheBoy]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

Nah, unless it was cocking miles out

Fair enough TB. worth asking though 

I need to pop over to you with my techII fee in hand (and I'll force it on you!) to test my multi Rams if you're free one day? 

IIRC, I promised a gearbox upgrade as well. I must have been smoking some shit that day

[Webby the Bear]

That does make sense. cheers TB.

Not wanting to go all 0-60 on you  but would a thrust angle not at 0' mean a drop in acceleration albeit slightly? I'm thinking of the ''crabbing'' effect. 

Nah, unless it was cocking miles out

Fair enough TB. worth asking though 

I need to pop over to you with my techII fee in hand (and I'll force it on you!) to test my multi Rams if you're free one day? 

IIRC, I promised a gearbox upgrade as well. I must have been smoking some shit that day

You did mate. It must've been you saw my car and felt sorry for me  or as you say, you had just had a toke on the old Jamaican woodbine!

[Webby the Bear]

Quick and most likely retarded question but...... when removing these rear track rods do I have to be careful of stuff moving? My thinking being like if you were to remove a shocker without it supported and the spring would smash down and pummel anything in its wake.

I presume not and I imagine I can simply remove and replace but I figured it's worth asking

[TheBoy]

no

[05omegav6]

Refitting is generally easier if you adjust the new one to match the length of the old one...

[Webby the Bear]

I thought as much but as said worth asking. Safety first :-)

[terry paget]

Quick and most likely retarded question but...... when removing these rear track rods do I have to be careful of stuff moving? My thinking being like if you were to remove a shocker without it supported and the spring would smash down and pummel anything in its wake.

I presume not and I imagine I can simply remove and replace but I figured it's worth asking

When stripping a car for scrappping I remove them and it still drives OK. Similarly the car can still be controlled with the idler arm removed. I have not yet found a practical way of removing a central track rod (£200 worth) then steering the car. Any suggestions? Stiff wire?

[Sir Tigger KC]

Lemforder RTR's from ECP were the best price when I needed a set this time last year. 

[Webby the Bear]

Lemforder RTR's from ECP were the best price when I needed a set this time last year. 

I take it these are the ones u refer to, Tig?

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Vauxhall_Omega_2.5_2000/p/car-parts/suspension/suspension-and-steering/suspension-arm-and-suspension-joints/?622720015&1&38a616a1cd24c9f5a513ab3c9fb00fa2444e1f74&000320

In terms of adjustment I trust you twist that centre fixed nut and one side will be left hand thread and the other normal so twist one way to reduce toe, other way to increase it? Similar to the front track rod set up? 

[Sir Tigger KC]

 

[terry paget]

I realise now. The rear trailing arm is located on 2 rubber bushes, bit like the front wishbones, so can only go up and down, but the rear trackrod locates it more precisely within the bushes' movement. So removing the track rod is OK. Not so with the steering idler, and much less so removing the central track rod.