Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?  (Read 3640 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Webby the Bear

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northampton
  • Posts: 12722
    • 2000 (W Reg.) 2.5 V6 CD
    • View Profile
Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« on: 03 June 2014, 17:48:15 »

Hi guys,

Symes and the NOOFers are currently arranging a welding master class which I am very much looking forward to.

However, as you know I'm an inquisitive bear and I've got a few questions if some kind soul could help?

Let's take the sills as an example...

I'm no engineer or designer but I cut out the rot and then how the hell do I get the new steel the correct shape to weld? Beat the hell out of it??? And how do I hold the new metal in place to weld it to the body?

Any info you could give me about the physical practise so I have a load of info before I go to Symes would be awesome :)
Logged
RIP Paul Lovejoy

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 39483
    • ML350 TDM SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #1 on: 03 June 2014, 18:03:32 »

Shaping metal to fit is where gas welding comes into its own, however due to today 'elf'n'safety' culture it seems that everybody is too scared to carry it these days ..... MIG/TIG is easier & cheaper & supposedly safer. You heat the metal to cherry red where you want the bend/shape & then gently clout it. Depends what you're welding to what as far as holding it, there are a multitude of wide jawed Vicegrips or if you want a butt weld there are clamps specifically for the job http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xbutt+weld+clamps&_nkw=butt+weld+clamps&_sacat=0&_from=R40 while you tack it all together.  :y
Logged

Webby the Bear

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northampton
  • Posts: 12722
    • 2000 (W Reg.) 2.5 V6 CD
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #2 on: 03 June 2014, 18:14:44 »

Thanks Andy.

So you have to have an aceteline torch to heat it up also?

With sills I notice that they're pinch welds... forgive the dodgy drawing but if you were to look at it from the front of the car would it look like this...

Thus I would only need to make one bend if I was making an inner sill and welding it on?
Logged
RIP Paul Lovejoy

Andy B

  • Get A Life!!
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bury Lancs
  • Posts: 39483
    • ML350 TDM SmartRoadster
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #3 on: 03 June 2014, 18:39:00 »

Thanks Andy.

So you have to have an aceteline torch to heat it up also?

It's so much easier if you do. It's years though now since I've gas welded anything.



With sills I notice that they're pinch welds... forgive the dodgy drawing but if you were to look at it from the front of the car would it look like this...

Thus I would only need to make one bend if I was making an inner sill and welding it on?

Originally, a sill like that would be spot welded every inch or so throughout its length .... I'm not sure though if it'd have to be a continuous weld these days if you're replacing a sill  :-\
Logged

kevinp58

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • kent
  • Posts: 1462
    • 2002 3.2 elite
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #4 on: 03 June 2014, 19:51:41 »

Hi guys,

Symes and the NOOFers are currently arranging a welding master class which I am very much looking forward to.

However, as you know I'm an inquisitive bear and I've got a few questions if some kind soul could help?

Let's take the sills as an example...

I'm no engineer or designer but I cut out the rot and then how the hell do I get the new steel the correct shape to weld? Beat the hell out of it??? And how do I hold the new metal in place to weld it to the body?

Any info you could give me about the physical practise so I have a load of info before I go to Symes would be awesome :)









Best and by far the easiest is to get a replacement sill cut the old one off and clean up face ready to weld new sill in place on the mating face of the new sill drill 1/4" holes every 1"-1 1/2" that way it will be like a spot weld on the top edge just stitch weld it at the same distance then grind off the high spots and apply filler sand and body shutz. jobs a good un.  :y :y
Logged

biggriffin

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • huntingdon, Hoof'land
  • Posts: 9758
    • Vectra in a posh frock.
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #5 on: 03 June 2014, 19:59:39 »

You make a cardboard template,of the piece you want then transfer that to the sheet metal,then for bends and folds use a folder,or an English wheel, its a die,ing art is metal fabrication, i was never that good at it,but have seen some very good fabricators,panel beaters at work :y, which is an art worth being able to do. :)
Logged
Hoof'land storeman.

omegod

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • liverpool
  • Posts: 4344
    • 2017 Seat Ateca
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #6 on: 03 June 2014, 20:33:00 »

Check out this thread from Retro rides, guy called Tony BMW is the dogs danglies at welding and it shows some detail about what you are asking

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/119596

And another about making panels

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135/panels#.U44ixSimWIY
Logged
Happy to do Omega servicing etc around Merseyside,cruise activation, airbag lights sorted too...

omega3000

  • Guest
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #7 on: 03 June 2014, 21:08:38 »

Check out this thread from Retro rides, guy called Tony BMW is the dogs danglies at welding and it shows some detail about what you are asking

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/119596

And another about making panels

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135/panels#.U44ixSimWIY

Excellent job Tony has done , enjoyed that thread  :y
Logged

omegod

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • liverpool
  • Posts: 4344
    • 2017 Seat Ateca
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #8 on: 03 June 2014, 21:16:38 »

Check out this thread from Retro rides, guy called Tony BMW is the dogs danglies at welding and it shows some detail about what you are asking

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/119596

And another about making panels

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/70135/panels#.U44ixSimWIY

Excellent job Tony has done , enjoyed that thread  :y


This ones even better !

http://retrorides.proboards.com/thread/88328?page=1#.U44sUCimWIY
Logged
Happy to do Omega servicing etc around Merseyside,cruise activation, airbag lights sorted too...

Webby the Bear

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northampton
  • Posts: 12722
    • 2000 (W Reg.) 2.5 V6 CD
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #9 on: 03 June 2014, 22:21:45 »

Wow those are some great threads there. But I think I need to do the basics first lol

By the way can someone post the link where I can get a new rear wing from ready for installation once I've learned the welding? And if anyone has a link to a new sil that would be sweet thanks boys
Logged
RIP Paul Lovejoy

Nick W

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Chatham, Kent
  • Posts: 10857
  • Rover Metro 1.8VVC
    • 3.0l Elite estate
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #10 on: 03 June 2014, 22:37:06 »

The good news is that the thickness of metal you'll be using is easily formed with handtools and other commonly available stuff. You can probably scrounge a lot of it. A couple of smallish hammers(in good condition), marker pen and a steel rule, a chunk of metal(dolly is the correct term, and is a good idea to buy one), some snips, some clamps(cheap G clamps from the bargain tool stands in the market) and two lengths of 2" angle iron about a foot long is enough to start with.
Starting with floors and other panels that aren't in sight is a good idea.

Going back to your pic, you would make the floor panel by clamping the metal between your angle iron, and gently tapping it over a few inches at a time. Work your way along the edge 2 or 3 times, and you'll have a nice tight 90degree flange. You could make the sill in a similar way, but could put the curve in by wrapping it around something of roughly the right diameter - a length of pipe, full coke bottle, lamp post whatever you find. Always make a perfectly fitting template from light cardboard. Always. It's a real timesaver, let alone reducing your scrap rate.

Once you've made a few panels, it gets much easier. You'll find yourself looking at things and thinking I could use that to form a thingy. Beads in floors can be done with a ball pein hammer and the jaws of a vice. Or you screw clamp a length of hardboard to some MDF, and chase the metal along it with a blunt cold chisel for a much neater result.

Don't worry about gas welding or heat for this sort of job, it isn't necessary. Mig welding is easily enough, but you will also need an angle grinder both to remove the old panels and to ensure that the metal is clean enough to weld to.

Dave Gardiners DVD from metalshapingzone.com is highly recommended, as it shows how to do both simple and complicated stuff without the expensive tools. English wheels are often mentioned, but unless you're making lots of highly curved panels they aren't necessary, and even then make the job easier. About the only 'big' tool that is worth buying as soon as you can is a shrinker/stretcher for curved flanges.
Logged

chrisgixer

  • Guest
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #11 on: 03 June 2014, 22:46:42 »

Impressive. Very impressive. :y
Logged

Webby the Bear

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northampton
  • Posts: 12722
    • 2000 (W Reg.) 2.5 V6 CD
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #12 on: 04 June 2014, 09:21:04 »

Thanks very much Nick.... spot on!!! So basically cos its so thin I can beat it in to shape. ill check that out thanks mate :)
Logged
RIP Paul Lovejoy

Marks DTM Calib

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • West Bridgford
  • Posts: 33839
  • Git!
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #13 on: 04 June 2014, 10:11:38 »

The best thing to do with tin bashing is have a go.

I do quite a bit of various levels of complexity on the unit and various coaches etc, not to hard once you know the basics.
Logged

Webby the Bear

  • Omega Queen
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Northampton
  • Posts: 12722
    • 2000 (W Reg.) 2.5 V6 CD
    • View Profile
Re: Welding.... how on Earth do you shape chassis metal?
« Reply #14 on: 04 June 2014, 10:34:54 »

Thanks Mark, and all who have inputted :)

Just a quickie....

I signed up to the Mig welding forum (a link you provided I think mark, so thanks) and they reckoned the following pic is just surface rust on the chassis rail/leg and I should get a wire wheel to it, clean it up and treat it.

Do we agree on here that it looks like surface rust and I should give this a go? Would be quite handy to get one area done so I don't have as much to do overall
Logged
RIP Paul Lovejoy
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.021 seconds with 21 queries.