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Author Topic: No Boost on my 2.2DTi  (Read 23401 times)

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P6UL K

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**UPDATE!!** Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #75 on: 04 November 2013, 23:20:33 »

I've finally picked the car up from the garage complete with an MOT!  All that was needed was anew exhaust, headlamp self-levelling motor, rear indicator bulbs & a battery clamp!

And now the bad news... Its still not boosting  >:( ::) :'( :D
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2008 Vx Vectra 2.8T VXR V6 Estate - ExNI Police • 1985 'B' Ford Escort Cabriolet 1.6 Rs Turbo

P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #76 on: 21 January 2014, 15:29:58 »

The vacuum feeling OK isn't enough... It should be measured with a gauge and have at least 20 inches.
The two most indispensable tools for the miggy 2.2 dti :-
  • A handheld vacuum pump / gauge
  • "O P Com", and a OBD-II extension lead with a right angle male connector to make driving whilst "O P Com" is connected possible...

Hi Andy,

Finally got myself a vacuum gauge, on idle the needle is showing 20-22Ins Hg - Is that right?
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #77 on: 21 January 2014, 15:31:36 »

Yep, thats full vac
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #78 on: 21 January 2014, 16:18:57 »

Brilliant...

What now...? :(
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Elite Pete

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #79 on: 21 January 2014, 17:29:02 »

Brilliant...

What now...? :(

Break it for parts ;D
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #80 on: 21 January 2014, 17:47:41 »

I think if I had the space to do that I would as I'm getting towards the end of my tether with the car! But issues aside the car is brilliant for an elite spec
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swordfish

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #81 on: 21 January 2014, 22:19:49 »

got another good turbo here , 
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #82 on: 21 January 2014, 22:28:48 »

This one is nigh on brand new mate, just waiting to hear back from Essex Turbos re the history of what/where/when it was fitted.

Cheers tho...
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henryd

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #83 on: 21 January 2014, 23:45:22 »

This one is nigh on brand new mate, just waiting to hear back from Essex Turbos re the history of what/where/when it was fitted.

Cheers tho...

it does look like its the turbo playing silly buggers though,nearly new or not :-\
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #84 on: 22 January 2014, 00:11:42 »

I'll chase up Essex Turbos tomorrow, see what they have to say for themselves....
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #85 on: 26 January 2014, 21:57:22 »

Well, we had a look at this today.

A couple of fault codes stored (none were "present"):

P0195 Malfunction code 1:

Coolant temperature is greater than 80 °C (176 °F)
Engine oil temperature is less than 70 °C (158 °F)
Note:

Engine-oil temperature and coolant temperature have no comparable characteristic curve.

P0400 Malfunction code 2:

Actual exhaust gas recirculation quantity is too low
Coolant temperature between 40 °C (104 °F) and 100 °C (212 °F)
Intake air temperature between -5 °C (23 °F) and 45 °C (113 °F)
Atmospheric pressure between 900 hPa ( 0.9 bar ) and 1100 hPa ( 1.1 bar )
Above conditions must be fulfilled for at least 10 s .
Effect:

Maximum performance will be reduced.
Exhaust gas recirculation valve is switched off

P1125 Malfunction code 1:

Ignition ON
Coolant temperature between 40 °C (104 °F) and 100 °C (212 °F)
The air mass calculated from the boost pressure is implausible with the measured air mass
Above condition must be fulfilled for at least 4.5 s .
Effect:

Maximum performance will be reduced.
Exhaust gas recirculation valve is switched off
Boost pressure control is not longer possible.


The above were cleared and did not return during a lengthy test drive during which time it performed with all the urgency of a slug on its' way to receive root canal treatment! It will apparently occasionally take off normally but, unfortunately, we were unable to persuade it to do so while watching the live data.

All vacuum actuators and corresponding valves were checked IAW TIS and performed correctly. MAF response to the EGR actuation was as specified as was boost pressure commanded by the boost pressure control actuator with the engine held at 3000 rpm. Swirl valve actuator could be observed operating correctly.

Coolant, oil and fuel temperature appeared plausible and responding to driving conditions although oil temperature remained 8 or 9 degrees C below reported coolant temperature and coolant temp as indicated by the engine was a good bit higher than reported by the instrument panel (100 deg. C from engine ECU with <90C at the panel). Curious that oil temp was lower than coolant but it was hardly being stretched. It was hardly performing at all, in fact.

During a test drive boost pressure was present whenever the engine was under load and probably about normal (bearing in mind I have no real experience of the live data to expect from this engine). It followed about 0.1-0.2 BAR below target boost pressure throughout and was making just under 2 BAR under full throttle. Throttle position was correctly reported in live data.

Injection start and quantity were following the desired values. Engine and pump speed looked correct. High pressure diagnosis sat at 0 throughout.

The MAF was reading around 400-430 at idle and only peaked to around 560 while driving. This struck me as strange, but, as said, I'm not that familiar with the ways of the tractor. :-\

Induction system was free of any obvious leaks and rubber intake hoses swelled when boost was present.

Power delivery was completely flat. No evidence of any boost-related power delivery whatsoever despite the fact that boost was there.

Engine started, idled and drove perfectly, just without significant power delivery.

So, conclusions?

Hmm <rubs chin>

Vacuum system is all working fine. We have boost pressure controllable by the actuator on the turbo, so suspect that's fine too. EGR is doing what it should, at idle, at least. If it were coming open under boost, I'd expect boost pressure to be bled away.

We have a code related to oil temperature and coolant temperature being inconsistent and this looks plausible given that the oil is consistently being reported cooler than oil. The code didn't return during a test drive, however.

We have a couple of codes suggesting a MAF issue - not plausible with boost pressure and the EGR quantity (which is presumably based on MAF response to EGR). MAF was reading as expected at idle and responded to EGR actuation, but surely if it's reading 430 ish at 800 RPM, it shouldn't top out at 560 at 3000 RPM with a BAR of boost? Codes didn't return during a run, so assume it hadn't gone into a deliberate limp at this stage

MAF has previously been replaced with a new genuine GM sensor to no avail.

No leaks in the induction system that could bypass the MAF.

Nevertheless, could a MAF issue be reducing the injection quantity, and thus limiting the power output despite the fact that the correct boost pressure is present?

I have a data log from the test drive.

I have a feeling that this is "something simple" but have no real experience with the dti, so little sense of what live data from a properly functioning example looks like, unfortunately.

Anyone got any ideas? :-\
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #86 on: 27 January 2014, 00:19:21 »

Thanks very much for your time tonight Kevin it has been very much appreciated and has helped extinguish a few concerns I had about replacing other components, one of the keywords you mentioned while diagnosing was the swirl valve.... This word for some reason floated in my mind for quite awhile and I was pondering about it during the drive home.

It made me think of the issue some BMWs have with the swirl flaps shattering and entering the engine causing all sorts of damage, so with a little bit of Google searching I've come across this thread on the Vauxhall Owners network Forum:

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/vectra-2-2-dti-egr-valve-problems.325741/

Which had a few basic issues discussed but what caught my attention was this link to a video on YouTube regarding the swirl valve and what it controls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZG9qFC1p_o

So this has led me to wonder if there is a massive carbon buildup within that chamber which is not allowing the valve flaps too close correctly so the EGR is operating correctly, the boost is entering and leaking away because these valves aren't closed correctly because of a possible carbon buildup?

What do you think?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #87 on: 27 January 2014, 00:32:23 »

Looks like they just blank off one intake valve to keep the flow velocity up, so their effect if not working would probably only be subtle. Doesn't mean the EGR isn't also gunked up, I suppose. Then again, we're getting decent boost.. :-\
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05omegav6

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #88 on: 27 January 2014, 01:09:30 »

Has the car had any of the following replaced...

Oil temp sensor
Ecu Coolant temp sensor
Coolant gauge sensor (if different to above)
Oil cooler (if fitted)
Thermostat

If the coolant/oil temp discrepancy could cause under fueling, then the fault must lie there if everything else appears in order :-\
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P6UL K

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Re: No Boost on my 2.2DTi
« Reply #89 on: 27 January 2014, 07:44:42 »

Looks like they just blank off one intake valve to keep the flow velocity up, so their effect if not working would probably only be subtle. Doesn't mean the EGR isn't also gunked up, I suppose. Then again, we're getting decent boost.. :-\

I think, this weekend - weather providing I'll whip all the intake off and give it a good clean up, chances are after 164k I'd imagine it will be quite fouled up, whatever the issue is tho is causing very bad MPG! To your house and back I used a third of a tank of diesel and averaged MPG was 27-29!!
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