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[hotel21]

My household has a wireless network so as to allow three desktop PC's access to my broadband connection.  The wireless hub allows me to add in something like this so as to backup and mirror important files on all 3 machines.  After a couple of lost data scares recently, actively looking for a resolution.  Not actually bought one yet, just looking for suitable advice from clever peeps here.  Not really wanting to have a PC running 24/7.

Anyone any comments, good or bad, on such a device?  I am not really computer literate but can plod away, given time.  As far as I can tell, the storage device is up all the time the network is and is not dependant on whether any master PC is active?

thanks...  

[TheBoy]

I haven't looked at that product, but I guess its a standard NAS type device, albeit a consumer/cheap one.

NAS devices stay on all the time, much like a server...

[theolodian]

Probably a lot of variation in how easy they are to set up, but yeah those little NAS boxes do stay on all the time.  Then it is up to you to make sure that you back your data up.  The other question is the fan noise.  Some of them aren't so quiet, and if your router is behind your TV . . .

[hotel21]

Thought about the fan and noise aspect, and will probably hide it in a corner away from the main movement in the house.....  Accepting it is a 'consumer' type product rather than an industrial standard one, what about the whole concept of mirrored drives that are accessible to all 3 PC's?  Could happily set up Ghostxx or similar (or supplied software?) to ensure relevant backups are taken daily/weekly....

Please remember, I'm far from an I.T. professional when you answer....    

[theolodian]

Thought about the fan and noise aspect, and will probably hide it in a corner away from the main movement in the house.....  Accepting it is a 'consumer' type product rather than an industrial standard one, what about the whole concept of mirrored drives that are accessible to all 3 PC's?  Could happily set up Ghostxx or similar (or supplied software?) to ensure relevant backups are taken daily/weekly....

Please remember, I'm far from an I.T. professional when you answer....    

If there's freeware backup software for normal people that actually works I'd like to hear about it.  I haven't even looked b/c every time I hear about backup software it isn't working correctly.

The fact that drives are mirrored is invisible to the PC/user.  If the NAS has a hardware RAID controller, then should be easy to set up.  2 or 3 identical drives and you're away!

[TheBoy]

It is possible to redirect your My Documents to go to a different location in XP Pro (not sure about Home, I would need to check). That is one way of keeping data safe, or map a drive, and save everything there.  Won't provide total disaster recovery, but will keep data safe.

[Danny]

i have a 120gb external hard drive i use to back up stuff, bought it years ago by mistake but it does the job and doesnt require any "setting up"

sorry, that doesnt really answer your Q does it

[hotel21]

Yup, hear what you say as regards DVD backups and double copies....

Just recently had Daughter in tears for a day or two (literally...) when her dissertation and e-porfolio went t*ts up when my PC crashed...  hers had already gone to PC heaven and was using her backups to continue working on my machine......  Problem was, she neglected to backup her data when working on my PC thereafter.  Luckily, after a boot drive mount failure on my machine I was able to recover her data (and mine, thankfully...) and all was again good...

Looking to invoke some automated method of archiving essential data as well as initial install images of all three machines to reduce (potential) restore times....  Would such a device, with suitable drives, do the deed???

[TheBoy]

Yup, hear what you say as regards DVD backups and double copies....

Just recently had Daughter in tears for a day or two (literally...) when her dissertation and e-porfolio went t*ts up when my PC crashed...  hers had already gone to PC heaven and was using her backups to continue working on my machine......  Problem was, she neglected to backup her data when working on my PC thereafter.  Luckily, after a boot drive mount failure on my machine I was able to recover her data (and mine, thankfully...) and all was again good...

Looking to invoke some automated method of archiving essential data as well as initial install images of all three machines to reduce (potential) restore times....  Would such a device, with suitable drives, do the deed???

The base Ghost (or whatever) would need to happen over network, so would need DOS drivers for the NIC in each PC (easier said than done).

I have a similar setup to what you are thinking of here - I base Ghost image for each machine on the network, and all data stored on network.  Difference is I use a server instead of NAS box, but that doesn't really matter...

[theolodian]

i have a 120gb external hard drive i use to back up stuff, bought it years ago by mistake but it does the job and doesnt require any "setting up"

sorry, that doesnt really answer your Q does it

I backup my iTunes and photos that way, but suggest not counting on a single USB drive as only backup.

[hotel21]

TB - whats NIC?  Please remember to use non techy clever speak!!    

[TheBoy]

TB - whats NIC?  Please remember to use non techy clever speak!!    

Soz, Network Interface Card - Network Card to you and me

Ghost Corporate editions (don't bother with the naff non-corporate editions) work in DOS, so need DOS drivers to get them on the network. No wireless devices have DOS drivers. Most wired card have drivers, but not all.

[Nickbat]

This month's Computer Shopper comes with a free version Paragon Drive Backup 8.5 Personal Edition (just requires online registration). Also on Page 145, there is an article on backing up using ths program.

Shopper is a good mag with a sound reputation, so I would think that the software is Ok if they've agreed to put it out with this month's issue.

[hotel21]

NIC - Network card - ta....

In effect then, this storage gubbins, if hard wired to my network wireless server, will do duty as a central storage point for the data and images of the 3 PC's who normally use same....
And have the data mirrored within the device, should one of the drives go t*ts up...
And, given access to someone clever, they could restore such important data on the originating machines with minimal fuss and bother...
As long as one machine at least is hard wired to the device, rather than using a wireless connection??

Bottom line - is this something worth getting and setting up, or is it potentially more hassle than its worth??

[Markjay]

Yup, hear what you say as regards DVD backups and double copies....

In case anyone was wondering what Hotel21 is on about...

I briefly posted a reply, then decided I wanted to modify it so took it off, but was distracted by a phone call from a friend on the other side of the world who was insomniac and had problems with his anti virus..... I guess Hotel21 managed to read the post just before it was removed, so for the benefit of everyone else here it is again:


The main problem with all low-cost storage solution, e.g. NAS, external USB drives etc, is backup… you get 500gb or 1tb very cheap, pour tons of stuff into it, with no quick way of backing it up… a DVD currently takes only up to 8.5gb max, but you need to be disciplined and use it to back up. You could also get another dive and back everything to it, this is OK, but for technical reasons less than ideal – tape backup is best option but may not be practical for home users, so DVD backup (2 copies, please) is the way to go.

[hotel21]

Yup, hear what you say as regards DVD backups and double copies....

In case anyone was wondering what Hotel21 is on about...

I briefly posted a reply, then decided I wanted to modify it so took it off, but was distracted by a phone call from a friend on the other side of the world who was insomniac and had problems with his anti virus..... I guess Hotel21 managed to read the post just before it was removed, so for the benefit of everyone else here it is again:


The main problem with all low-cost storage solution, e.g. NAS, external USB drives etc, is backup… you get 500gb or 1tb very cheap, pour tons of stuff into it, with no quick way of backing it up… a DVD currently takes only up to 8.5gb max, but you need to be disciplined and use it to back up. You could also get another dive and back everything to it, this is OK, but for technical reasons less than ideal – tape backup is best option but may not be practical for home users, so DVD backup (2 copies, please) is the way to go.

Thanks for that Markjay - hope the post count bounces back soon - but will astute use of ghost or similar software resolve the issue of backups and overwriting?  Can you configure this backup software to simply overwrite what is already there on an incremental basis, i.e copy and make available information or mirrors of the donor drives on a timescale as to be defined?

[Markjay]

Firstly, you can either use an external USB drive which are relatively low-cost, and then share the external drive over the network - this is not ideal for several reason plus you can only use the external drive when the PC it is connected to is actually switched on - but it is cheap and it does work.

Then you could go for NAS device, which is more expensive but connects directly to the network so always accessible and not dependant on any specific PC being switched-on. Some NAS devices are wired-only while others have WiFi.

If you have Windows XP, you can use Norton Ghost or PowerQuest Drive Image to ghost the hard disk to the NAS device. Drive Image works better than Norton in my opinion, and runs as a Windows application in the background. The back-up images are compressed, and like Norton you can browse the back-up image file and extratct single files from it if needed.

Sadly Symantec, who own Norton for some time now, recently took-over PowerQuest so no new version of DriveImage are available - the last one was 2003 (the technology is supposed to have been integrated into the latest versions of Norton Ghost).

Drive Image does not support Vista and I couldn't get Norton Ghost to work with it either (though some people in support forums say they did manage it).

I now use at home either the built-in ms-backup application which works well though does not offer compression, or this very neat utility which costs $50 USD: http://www.drive-image.com , both allow me to image the Vista PCs to shared storage.

[Markjay]

As for backup method, I was never in favour of incremental or differential backups... I prefer to get a full backup every time. If you opt for a large storage drive, e.g. 1tb (which is what I have), you should be able to accommodate for several compressed images on it.

Just keep in mind that the backup need to alternate - i.e. you only delete a previous copy once the new one is completed, and not delete the old copy in readiness for the next image... your PC drive could drive half-way through the current backup and you will kick yourself for deleting the old backup....


And yes, I am in the business of thinking what could go wrong and how to avoid it, or as my wife says I am a naturally born pessimist.  

[sounds2k]

having similarly nearly lost all hard drive data more than once, I go for a two-pronged approach:

1) RAID-1 (ie, mirroring - an identical copy updated all the time) on the PC - this should protect against a single hard drive failure, which seems to be the most common problem. However if the data loss is due to files being deleted and/or a virus, the data will be gone from both drives ... which leads to ...

2) occasional full backup to an external hard drive, I have one of these - which although expensive, would be quicker to back up to and restore from than a network attached device. I've got it set up in RAID-5 mode (which can tolerate a single drive failure) which gives a usable capacity of 750GB - enough for a few backups!! However, it's pretty noisy so you wouldn't want to be leaving it on all the time ...

I think the best option in your case would probably be something like the netgear one you listed, but with the ability to connect directly to a PC for making and restoring backups ...

[megaomega123]

I store all my important stuff (images video documents and set up files) away from the operating system on an internal drive. This drive is then mapped to allow the other network pc's to access all the files on that drive. I do not use any back up software. If the O.S. fails, simply reinstall. You have a fresh copy of windows and access remains to the storage drive.

I do not use My Documents on C: but point everything towards the F: drive folders which are organized into Music, Movies, Documents, Images, Setup files and so on.

I also have an excellent piece of software which will recover and repair files. A few years ago, I needed to reinstall windows. I only had 1 drive. I thought I had backed up everything and went ahead to format and reinstall. My back up  disc did not work   I used this software and it recovered everything that had been deleted during format, all videos, images and documents. I have never lost data through corruption, hardware failure or viruses, only by accidental deletion, which is recoverable.

The only thing I back up now are my firefox profile settings and my outlook settings.
If anybody ever needs to use this recovery software then let me know. It finds everything. It also does digital cameras and memory cards etc      

[x25xe]

But do not forget that after the format if you had started to write new files to the disk, you would not have been able to recover quite so many of them

[hotel21]

..... I think the best option in your case would probably be something like the netgear one you listed, but with the ability to connect directly to a PC for making and restoring backups ...

Thanks for that.  It seems the Netgear SC101 is the best compromise for my needs, balancing initial cost against what I actually want it to do.  As far as I can see, I have the option to either cable connect it to the wireless hub (what I am going to do) or, if needs arise, I can cable connect it to whatever PC requires dire reconstruction.....  

Unless I am missing something quite important??  :-?

Thanks to all for their input thus far.  Its appreciated.  

[sounds2k]

well from the info on the page you posted a link to, it appears that the netgear SC101 can only be connected via a router - it may require that to provide it a valid IP address. Therefore I'm not sure you could use it to restore a backup of a PC if you had to replace the PC's hard drive ... you might be able to install windows XP and the backup software and restore from that point, though ...

[TheBoy]

Not sure if you have made a purchase yet, but if not, may be worth reading up on Windows Home Server. This is a new product that I have not yet seen, but sounds interesting, particularly the backing up of attached PCs.

Obviously, it would need a PC on (or in stnadby maybe?) though...

[megaomega123]

But do not forget that after the format if you had started to write new files to the disk, you would not have been able to recover quite so many of them

I did a full recovery and found all of the files belonging to the previous owner of the drive. This was after 2 years of me owning it