Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[cem_devecioglu]

interesting test results.. and some famous brands really fail :-?   tests are from a UK tire site..

[cem_devecioglu]

[cem_devecioglu]

[cem_devecioglu]

[cem_devecioglu]

[cem_devecioglu]

I hope this will stop the tire debate

                                          tire addict 

[TheBoy]

Those figures appear to be the same kind of survey as the JP Power ones for reliability, or the Towcar of the Year awards.  ie, flat cap brigade talking 'dangle berries'

[TheBoy]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

[cem_devecioglu]

Those figures appear to be the same kind of survey as the JP Power ones for reliability, or the Towcar of the Year awards.  ie, flat cap brigade talking 'dangle berries'

I will post the link as soon as I will find.. needed to reboot as one picture gives sharing error when loading on photobucket.. but good test imo..

[tunnie]

no wonder I had shite traction in the snow   

[TheBoy]

no wonder I had shite traction in the snow   

One person's view of a summer tyre in the snow is very different to the next.

A complete inability to drive and control a car in snow might get the best snow tyre slated

[cem_devecioglu]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

its been many days I'm reading consumer surveys about tires.. and I concluded that , depending on measurable units such as brake distance, cornering g etc more important than user views.. they only mislead :-/

[Kevin Wood]

I hope this will stop the tire debate

Don't be silly - with Falken making the first page?.

Kevin

[Kevin Wood]

A complete inability to drive and control a car in snow might get the best snow tyre slated

True enough. A BMWbad driver always blames his tyres.

[TheBoy]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

its been many days I'm reading consumer surveys about tires.. and I concluded that , depending on measurable units such as brake distance, cornering g etc more important than user views.. they only mislead :-/

I'm lucky enough to drive many Omegas, all with different tyres (and many with incorrect geometry ), which gives me a small advantage when it came to choosing tyres.

I was a bit lost when my beloved Dunlop SP9000's became obsolete, but am pleased with the choice I made.

[tunnie]

I hope this will stop the tire debate

Don't be silly - with Falken making the first page?.

Kevin

Chris is just jealous he does not have the mighty Falkins      

[Kevin Wood]

I hope this will stop the tire debate

Don't be silly - with Falken making the first page?.

Kevin

Chris is just jealous he does not have the mighty Falkins      

Ahh! I mentioned the F-word. What time does Gay Boy Gixxer get back from work?

[cem_devecioglu]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

its been many days I'm reading consumer surveys about tires.. and I concluded that , depending on measurable units such as brake distance, cornering g etc more important than user views.. they only mislead :-/

I'm lucky enough to drive many Omegas, all with different tyres (and many with incorrect geometry ), which gives me a small advantage when it came to choosing tyres.

I was a bit lost when my beloved Dunlop SP9000's became obsolete, but am pleased with the choice I made.

no problem with the previous tire if you are satisfied but when reading especially my countries sites thousand users thousand views and half is 'dangle berries'

[cem_devecioglu]

I hope this will stop the tire debate

Don't be silly - with Falken making the first page?.

Kevin

they dont include tramlining .. but I find their results very similiar on the tires which I have used.. will see what chrisgixer comment

[bluey]

I'm interested to see the place where all this data came from. 

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm interested to see the place where all this data came from. 

still searching.. I found it very hard.. and dont think I can create all these data

[bluey]

okay, okay, bad wording on my part there I meant website. 

[cem_devecioglu]

okay, okay, bad wording on my part there I meant website. 

ok here is the story.. today tried to buy adrenaline for the small one.. nope .. they tried to sell me 2008 tires .. and at least I need to wait 1 month.. called the customer relations .. all they give me is a stupid number.. then searched alternatives .. was looking yokohama advan neova.. but only find ac01 instead.. and searched the net for test results.. and found this ( was a good luck).. and I cant find now

[cem_devecioglu]

finally.. here you go

http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/summer-tyre.html

[bluey]

It'll be in your history folder, surely?  Somewher in amongst all the stuff with nekkid wimmin 

I'm only interested 'cos some of those results just sound complete garbage to me.

[cem_devecioglu]

finally.. here you go

http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/summer-tyre.html

[bluey]

Yep, just took a look ta.

I think it only reinforces my belief that tyres are way too much of a subjective topic.  It's a good idea of theirs to have the survey but similarly it's too much down to personal opinion or even manipulation by the makers if they were so minded.

[cem_devecioglu]

Yep, just took a look ta.

I think it only reinforces my belief that tyres are way too much of a subjective topic.  It's a good idea of theirs to have the survey but similarly it's too much down to personal opinion or even manipulation by the makers if they were so minded.

nope.. its a measurable science in fact.. and I dont think talking by previous experience with personal views is a good idea.. test is a test..  view is a view..

[TheBoy]

Yep, just took a look ta.

I think it only reinforces my belief that tyres are way too much of a subjective topic.  It's a good idea of theirs to have the survey but similarly it's too much down to personal opinion or even manipulation by the makers if they were so minded.

nope.. its a measurable science in fact.. and I dont think talking by previous experience with personal views is a good idea.. test is a test..  view is a view..

I disagree, as feedback is a hugely important measure that is always subjective

Feedback prevents the need to subject the tyre/car to the maximum test (or exceed it  )

[bluey]

Er, nope. 

The results in that table are derived from data collated using personal views.  It's gathered from a range of people who give their subjective view of the performance of a tyre they have allegedly used, alongide some quantitative data on location and vehicle which has obvious bearing on the data they publish.  The scores are collated and then averaged out.  Too much apples v oranges going on for the data to be definitive and meaningful.

At best it's a bit of a guide, but I'd disagree with some of the placings.

[cem_devecioglu]

Er, nope. 

The results in that table are derived from data collated using personal views. 

as you mention later there is quantitative data..
which is the only important part..

It's gathered from a range of people who give their subjective view of the performance of a tyre they have allegedly used,

alongide some quantitative data on location and vehicle which has obvious bearing on the data they publish.  The scores are collated and then averaged out.  Too much apples v oranges going on for the data to be definitive and meaningful.



disagreed..before I shared many tire test threads which has parallel test results with that one.. from a tire test the only part important is measured values..
like dry grip, wet grip, dry , wet braking etc.. handling and comfort are personal which I never give any importance..


At best it's a bit of a guide, but I'd disagree with some of the placings.

  probably your investments are in the wrong place

[bluey]

Cem, firstly there is a stupid typo on my post which is my fault.  I meant to say the quantitative data has no obvious bearing on the data they publish. For example, what weighting do they give - if any - for results given by people who live in areas where road surfaces are poorly maintained.  Admittedly this is just about everywhere in the UK, but there are some better bits of road than others out there.  I found a 200 yard bit of the M5 last week that was quite nice.

The data being requested is only at best vaguely related to the scores.  For example, the survey asks a question about driving style, with three options.  In reality this is not credible - no-one drives 'sportily' 100% of the time!  In addition the survey does not ask about maintenance and care of the vehicle and the tyres, which would have a major bearing on their performance.  The most expensive bits of rubber in the world won't be much good if the pressures are all at sea and the tracking is a mile out, both of which will be a regular issue. 

Just like ISPs, mobile phones, laptops, couriers, anti-virus vendors and loads of other stuff, people can have heavily polarised views on a brand of tyre.  There are so many holes in that survey it simply is not a definitive guide, and the rating system is no more than a personal opinion gauge. 

[cem_devecioglu]

Cem, firstly there is a stupid typo on my post which is my fault.  I meant to say the quantitative data has no obvious bearing on the data they publish. For example, what weighting do they give - if any - for results given by people who live in areas where road surfaces are poorly maintained.  Admittedly this is just about everywhere in the UK, but there are some better bits of road than others out there.  I found a 200 yard bit of the M5 last week that was quite nice.

The data being requested is only at best vaguely related to the scores.  For example, the survey asks a question about driving style, with three options.  In reality this is not credible - no-one drives 'sportily' 100% of the time!  In addition the survey does not ask about maintenance and care of the vehicle and the tyres, which would have a major bearing on their performance.  The most expensive bits of rubber in the world won't be much good if the pressures are all at sea and the tracking is a mile out, both of which will be a regular issue. 

Just like ISPs, mobile phones, laptops, couriers, anti-virus vendors and loads of other stuff, people can have heavily polarised views on a brand of tyre.  There are so many holes in that survey it simply is not a definitive guide, and the rating system is no more than a personal opinion gauge. 

if a test that you call "vague" have very similiar results with that one and some others, I take it serious..You may object for your reasons but this doesnt make it unworthy..

[cem_devecioglu]

and besides, there are several mathematical methods that enables you to omit  those polarised views ..

briefly you can take averages and after you calculate the avg you can omit the highest difference values(-,+) and recalculate the averages again.. which is also a scientific method..  I dont think a large tire selling site is publishing the averages of people telling porkies .. try sorting in dry and wet  .. you will see its very close to other tests..

[Lazydocker]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

its been many days I'm reading consumer surveys about tires.. and I concluded that , depending on measurable units such as brake distance, cornering g etc more important than user views.. they only mislead :-/

I'm lucky enough to drive many Omegas, all with different tyres (and many with incorrect geometry ), which gives me a small advantage when it came to choosing tyres.

I was a bit lost when my beloved Dunlop SP9000's became obsolete, but am pleased with the choice I made.

Are you ever going to stop teasing people and just confess? Some of us know now anyway

[cem_devecioglu]

That said, Omega does need very different tyres to, for example MR2. Apparently, Falkens are really good on MR2

Every car reacts differently to different tyres, and everybody has different demands, so I think most of these tyre surveys are not worth the effort.

its been many days I'm reading consumer surveys about tires.. and I concluded that , depending on measurable units such as brake distance, cornering g etc more important than user views.. they only mislead :-/

I'm lucky enough to drive many Omegas, all with different tyres (and many with incorrect geometry ), which gives me a small advantage when it came to choosing tyres.

I was a bit lost when my beloved Dunlop SP9000's became obsolete, but am pleased with the choice I made.

Are you ever going to stop teasing people and just confess? Some of us know now anyway

I am really curious about that "choice"  ??

[Lazydocker]

I am really curious about that "choice"  ??

If you know his past preference it's not too hard to guess

He's predictable

[cem_devecioglu]

I am really curious about that "choice"  ??

If you know his past preference it's not too hard to guess

He's predictable

yep..    this talk is going to be dangerous imo

[Lazydocker]

I am really curious about that "choice"  ??

If you know his past preference it's not too hard to guess

He's predictable

yep..    this talk is going to be dangerous imo

Probably... But he wants my help soon

[bluey]

and besides, there are several mathematical methods that enables you to omit  those polarised views ..

briefly you can take averages and after you calculate the avg you can omit the highest difference values(-,+) and recalculate the averages again.. which is also a scientific method..  I dont think a large tire selling site is publishing the averages of people telling porkies .. try sorting in dry and wet  .. you will see its very close to other tests..

You're absolutely right on the points calculation - but they don't say how they go about putting up the figures so we don't know.  Additionally a couple of the comments about one or two tyres you showed in the screengrab I also agree with, and a couple I don't.  Surveys can be a help if you want some additional info before buying, but pinning your choice solely on a survey?  That's bonkers in my book, especially on one that is not scientific like that one.  And whether you like it or not they are open to abuse and bias from disgruntled users through to idle trolls, fanbois, poor memory/incorrect selections and the makers themselves. 

Much better to take the information into account when you decide, but make the decision from doing a bit more digging first. 

[cem_devecioglu]

and besides, there are several mathematical methods that enables you to omit  those polarised views ..

briefly you can take averages and after you calculate the avg you can omit the highest difference values(-,+) and recalculate the averages again.. which is also a scientific method..  I dont think a large tire selling site is publishing the averages of people telling porkies .. try sorting in dry and wet  .. you will see its very close to other tests..

You're absolutely right on the points calculation - but they don't say how they go about putting up the figures so we don't know.  Additionally a couple of the comments about one or two tyres you showed in the screengrab I also agree with, and a couple I don't.  Surveys can be a help if you want some additional info before buying, but pinning your choice solely on a survey?  That's bonkers in my book, especially on one that is not scientific like that one.  And whether you like it or not they are open to abuse and bias from disgruntled users through to idle trolls, fanbois, poor memory/incorrect selections and the makers themselves. 

Much better to take the information into account when you decide, but make the decision from doing a bit more digging first. 

for long years I've spend serious money on tires.. and long time searching/comparing tests.. now as a habit I can distinguish biased results .. however tire quality is an area which requires big sums of investments from the producer.. so very rarely comes a surprise.. and plus between famous brands only a small fraction of difference exists which you cant distinguish when buying tires with your eyes and bare hands.. today , I checked several tires compounds by hand and very hard to decide honestly (except the price factor).. as a result, instead of trusting my experience and momentary perceptions I generally take the way of trusting the combined results of tests..

[Shimmy]

Well at least that 'test' seems to agree my Rainsport 2's seem to be one of the better tyres, not that expensive either.

Some of the placings do look rather odd though, I wouldn't take the results too seriously.

[cem_devecioglu]

Well at least that 'test' seems to agree my Rainsport 2's seem to be one of the better tyres, not that expensive either.

Some of the placings do look rather odd though, I wouldn't take the results too seriously.

placings change depending on the  sort order column..  on some specific columns I actually get what I used to see -except some goodyears and michelins of which hard to find some honest test results..

ps: however it was a good one that I rarely see a test  combining many tires..

[feeutfo]

Those figures appear to be the same kind of survey as the JP Power ones for reliability, or the Towcar of the Year awards.  ie, flat cap brigade talking 'dangle berries'

Agreed, what utter utter 'dangle berries'. Price marks the performance tyres down by the looks.

Appologies to cem for my comments, and thanks for taking the time to compile these lists, its much appreciated. 

But....

What those lists need is to be able to click on the column thats important to the buyer, and have all columns then in the order of relevance to that particular consumer. Although the individual columns help, its alot to sift through.

As said previously, what is considered a "good tyre" depends what you want from it, my Dad says a good tyre is the cheapest one on the shelf made of plastic.

I of course think thats bloody rediculous and will pay more, if needed, to get at least "some" grip. Some straightline stability would be nice as well. 

However, i believe given a set of fixed desirables wanted in a tyre we woud all come to the same conclusion given a chance to compare within reason, although some simply wont notice some aspects i guess. For instance if i asked me Dad to pick the quitest tyre, or the gripiest in the wet(well, maybe not) we wouldnt be far off. As most of us here would be.

And also as previously said, what car was used in the test(s) ? Small front wheel drive cars will be differant to large rear wheel drive cars like the omega i am certain. I mean why do tyre manufacturers make tyres for specific models if all tyre work the same on all cars?

My twitch came back earlier today, somebody mentioned bloody Fa Fa fafer fer Falkens didnt they. 

[hotel21]

I always say that there is a difference between cheap tyres and getting tyres cheap.

Cem - as much as you disagrree, I say that there is a large chunk of subjectivity and personal interpretation to also be included in your posted results.

The person that is happy hurtling through roads and bends in the dry could be a complete woose in the wet - and vice versa - and thus your results are skewed.

Until there is a reliable constant mechanical input that removes the nut behind the wheel, I personally will stick to personal preference.... 

But thanks for your input.  It truly is appreciated....   

[bluey]

Years back I got given the poison chalice of looking after a fleet of motors and vans.  Despite the vans, which were all the same make and model and having identical Goodyears on them, the people driving them had different opinions, which I at times got an earful about.  Half the time the main reason was they didn't grip like the proverbial turd to axminster as some of the drivers thought they shared the same DNA with Ayrton Senna, but the point was their comments were half the time biased down to them preferring another make 'cos their car had them or subjective or just a load of old cobblers because, inevitably, they weren't very good at driving. 

There is also the point that for some models the OEM spec, or the current updated version if they make it remains the best, or at least a perfectly good, choice to retain the original feel or specific characteristics.  Rolls-Royces and Avon Turbospeeds is a good example here.  So, while I would always look at a survey like the one cem pointed to, I just don't think it is wise to base your decision purely on what in reality is a set of numbers that have way too many unknown or unexplored factors behind them for the information to be definitive. 

[Psychoca]

Reading through the information, the thing that stands out big time is that some tyres have good grip and traction, yet are placed lower in there rankings due to noise (admittedly road noise is tiring)...  Surely whilst tyre/road noise should be taken into account, that grip and handling characteristics should have a far greater weighting to them... 

Thank you for the info Cem, but, I personally feel that the weighting of the results is inaccurate.

[Kevin Wood]

Reading through the information, the thing that stands out big time is that some tyres have good grip and traction, yet are placed lower in there rankings due to noise (admittedly road noise is tiring)...  Surely whilst tyre/road noise should be taken into account, that grip and handling characteristics should have a far greater weighting to them... 

Thank you for the info Cem, but, I personally feel that the weighting of the results is inaccurate.

The trade-off between noise and grip / handling qualities is the one I've noticed most myself when swapping tyres. Again, it comes down to personal preferences. I really dislike noisy tyres to the extent that my current choice has sacrificed some performance for quietness.

Others might not be prepared to do so, and put up with the noise. Some might be so gentle in their driving inputs that they don't notice any difference in performance at all and just rate the tyre as poor because it's noisy.

Not everybody is as perceptive behind the wheel. Some just feel uneasy about negotiating corners fast and slow down. They might not consider whether it's the tyre, tyre pressures, a suspension issue, their driving style or the road surface that has prompted them to do so. They may not even be conscious that they have slowed down.

Not everybody has a consistent driving style, so making comparisons is pointless. If you sometimes progressively enter a corner and sometimes snatch at the wheel your experiences are going to be variable before you start swapping tyres.

Not everybody will experiment with tyre pressure and suspension setup to ensure they get the best out of a tyre.

Not everybody buys tyres for the correct reason. I see the Toyo R888 is towards the bottom of the field. That's probably the grippiest, best handling tyre on the list in the right circumstances (in the summer, when it's got a bit of heat in it) but I pity the bloke who even rated it in the snow. I wouldn't put it on a car that gets in the winter let alone snow. It's got a mediocre but not poor 5.31 for tread wear, too. It would last about 3-4k of road use, IMHO, yet it gets similar wear ratings to some of the "granite formula" "I wish I could wear these rather things out" ditchfinders in the list.

As many have said, tyre reviews can be a useful guide. I find the numbers useless, though. I like to read written reviews of tyres and consider if I'm on the same wavelength as the guy writing it before considering whether to take the advice on board.

Kevin

[aaronjb]

Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*

[cem_devecioglu]

ok.. orderwise their sorting may not reflect the truth as price , noise , handling has higly effected.. but...

but I checked their parameters, way of driving , tire size, car brand, road type etc.. imo this is a detailed type of survey, although we dont know their coefficients or parameters weight, I still find it very useful when you sort for dry, wet,snow grip values..because from many tests that I examined these values are very close to truth at least in order..

I agree that the values are not for a specific car which may effect the results but from my experience and real local survey on friends    (as I'm the advisor) a good tire successful on a small car also gives good results for big cars.. rarely seen something unexpected.. however I choose tires depending on their driving style.. for example I never advice hard sports rubber for women drivers

also in my country , road conditions never accept weak tires that they are proven to make baloons quickly.. :-/ (if you want brand name , definitely micheline -all submodels without exception )


I have no doubt someone working behind -knows the job-, filtered all kinds of crap otherwise the results wouldnt be similiar and I would have discarded it at the first glance like I did for many surveys..

[cem_devecioglu]

Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*

 

when I posted the list and Kevin mentioned that it was on the first page I was 

[Kevin Wood]

I don't think anyone's saying it's not useful, Cem (although I might have given that impression ).

It's just that if you take the tyre from the top of the list and put it on an Omega excluding all other sources of advice you might be disappointed.

Kevin

[cem_devecioglu]

I don't think anyone's saying it's not useful, Cem (although I might have given that impression ).

It's just that if you take the tyre from the top of the list and put it on an Omega excluding all other sources of advice you might be disappointed.

Kevin

like Fa..Fa.. Fa..

[feeutfo]

Sooo.. we should all go out and buy Falkens, right?

*runs away from Chris*

If the passenger is buying, yes.  very compliant, quiet, comfy ride... from the passenger seat. 

Driver wont be so keen when they wear  though. 

Fairly clear whats considered a good tyre in the test when the harder 912 is rated higher than the softer and slightly better handling 452(?) 

Personally suspect that road noise and directional stability are a compromise tyre makers have to juggle with. Extremes of the scale IME are...
Falken 912(quiet but unstable on the omega)
Dunlop Sport maxx tt/sp9000 very stable planted feel, even more so the sc3. But considerably noisier than F F Falkens.

[cem_devecioglu]

from subaru sti car forum:

Australia 2010 tyre test (car 2011 subaru sti ) results


1) Toyo Proxes R1R
2) Bridgestone Adrenaline Potenza 001
3) Toyo Proxes T1
4) Dunlop SP Sport Maxx TT
5) goodyear Eagle F1
6) Continental Contisportcontacts
7) Maxis Victra I-PRO

Semi Slicks

Toyo Proxes R888
9) Dunlop Direzza 03G

Tests included Slalom, dry brake,wet brake, road loop, skidpan & wear.

Top 3 tyreswere:

1) Goodyear  Eagle F1
2) Toyo Proxes R1R
3) Bridgestone Adrenaline Potenza

so verifies the results from the link I shared.. if you sort the columns by dry,wet,curve stability you will see those tires are at the top with the exception of Maxis and Goodyear..

so I prepared my top 4..

Bridgestone Potenza s001
Toyo R1R
Vredestein Ultrac Cento
Nokian H (good for rain especially)

I omit Eagle F1 Asymmetric as its not found on small sizes..