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[stuart30]

Guys advice needed urgently.

The 2.5 Estate has started very suddenly using a lot of water,basicly on way to collect wife and babies and coolant low  displayed on screen then  temp gauge started to rapidly rise,checked expansion tank and it was empty so left it an hour or so and had breakdown people come out and check it over,no obvious signs of leaks (although there's a badly blistered pipe or far right of engine bay) and it took quite a  few litres of water  to get it back to normal level with car running.

Ive drove it too local garage and they have said its definitely head gasket (not too sure about them as they didn't want paying to test and that's before i took it in)...they say they did a water pressure test and chemical test and would like a £1000 to fix.

Car isn't blowing out white smoke at all and seems to run fine (with a close eye on water level) however there is a smell of what seems like exhaust gases in the car when blowers are on....could this be a genuine head gasket or possibly an oil cooler problem,seem to remember people mentioning misdiagnosed head gaskets before.

So basicly is there a definitive way of checking head gasket or oil cooler.?

Finally if anyone local (ish) would like to earn some £££ then please feel free to pm me...have no faith in local garage and have to babies now stuck at home car less so need this fixing ASAP.

[TheBoy]

Did they detect exhaust fumes in coolant tank?

Is there oil in coolant?

Is there sludge on bottom of dipstick?

[stuart30]

Did they detect exhaust fumes in coolant tank?

Is there oil in coolant?

Is there sludge on bottom of dipstick?

They say they detected exhaust gas in the coolant tank as thats what changes the chemical to a different colour...at least they say it did.?

No oil in the coolant as theres no coolant in the tank...is there another way to check.?

No sludge on dipstick...i forgot to say i checked that and no mayo in filler neck either.

[TheBoy]

If they found exhaust fumes in header tank, that is normally pretty conclusive...

[stuart30]

If they found exhaust fumes in header tank, that is normally pretty conclusive...

Well they say they did..it just strikes me as odd they said they would do the test as free,made me wonder if they had made there mind up before seeing the car. :-/

I"ll take to another garage and get them to do the test again and see what they say....apart from checking whats been checked,dipstick ect is there anything that would point towards head gasket,i thought when a head gasket went theres normaly plumes of white smoke belched out.?

Assuming it is head gasket any idea on DIY fix price...parts and resonable labour costs.

[TheBoy]

If they found exhaust fumes in header tank, that is normally pretty conclusive...

Well they say they did..it just strikes me as odd they said they would do the test as free,made me wonder if they had made there mind up before seeing the car. :-/

I"ll take to another garage and get them to do the test again and see what they say....apart from checking whats been checked,dipstick ect is there anything that would point towards head gasket,i thought when a head gasket went theres normaly plumes of white smoke belched out.?

Assuming it is head gasket any idea on DIY fix price...parts and resonable labour costs.

HG can manifest itself in a number of ways, so you don't always get white (or blue) smoke out of exhaust.  Exhaust fumes in header tank is common when it fails.

Are you able to change the head gaskets yourself? If so, around £100 for gaskets, stem seals and fluids etc, worth doing cambelt at same time, so another £100 there.

If you can't, I would estimate 10hrs (guess) labour, so between £500 and £1000 on labour.

[stuart30]

If they found exhaust fumes in header tank, that is normally pretty conclusive...

Well they say they did..it just strikes me as odd they said they would do the test as free,made me wonder if they had made there mind up before seeing the car. :-/

I"ll take to another garage and get them to do the test again and see what they say....apart from checking whats been checked,dipstick ect is there anything that would point towards head gasket,i thought when a head gasket went theres normaly plumes of white smoke belched out.?

Assuming it is head gasket any idea on DIY fix price...parts and resonable labour costs.

HG can manifest itself in a number of ways, so you don't always get white (or blue) smoke out of exhaust.  Exhaust fumes in header tank is common when it fails.

Are you able to change the head gaskets yourself? If so, around £100 for gaskets, stem seals and fluids etc, worth doing cambelt at same time, so another £100 there.

If you can't, I would estimate 10hrs (guess) labour, so between £500 and £1000 on labour.

Oh dear...no im a complete novice with this stuff and with the twins home wouldnt get a chance anyway.

Parts dont sound too bad..just the labour is a shock,would that be a DIY labour price or garage price.

Think i"ll find a corner to go have a cry in.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Head gasket failure normaly results in:

a) Pressurised coolant
b) Coolant consumption
c) Water in oil

It generaly is not due to

1) Oil in water

They need to check for hydrocarbons in the header tank......

They should also do a pressure test on the coolaing system with the engine cold and look for signs of water loss....

How old is the car and what mileage....does the coolant look clean and with plenty of antifreeze.....

I suspect a standard coolant leak and not headgasket......but, test results are required first.

[stuart30]

Head gasket failure normaly results in:

a) Pressurised coolant
b) Coolant consumption
c) Water in oil

It generaly is not due to

1) Oil in water

They need to check for hydrocarbons in the header tank......

They should also do a pressure test on the coolaing system with the engine cold and look for signs of water loss....

How old is the car and what mileage....does the coolant look clean and with plenty of antifreeze.....

I suspect a standard coolant leak and not headgasket......but, test results are required first.

Firstly whats hydrocarbons..?

Im going to try another gargae and ask them to do a pressure test whilst i wait (have little to no faith in garages).

Car is a 97" and milage around 114,000,coolant did look clean in expansion tank with a green tinge to it and was fine all through the freezing conditions,just suddendly started over heating.

Id imagine any coolant that was in there has now been flushed through as ive had to put a lot of water in the expansion tank.

Thanks for the advice so far guys...very much appreciated.

[TheBoy]

Head gasket failure normaly results in:

a) Pressurised coolant
b) Coolant consumption
c) Water in oil

It generaly is not due to

1) Oil in water

They need to check for hydrocarbons in the header tank......

They should also do a pressure test on the coolaing system with the engine cold and look for signs of water loss....

How old is the car and what mileage....does the coolant look clean and with plenty of antifreeze.....

I suspect a standard coolant leak and not headgasket......but, test results are required first.

stuart30 have said they have positively identified exhaust fumes in header tank....

[stuart30]

Head gasket failure normaly results in:

a) Pressurised coolant
b) Coolant consumption
c) Water in oil

It generaly is not due to

1) Oil in water

They need to check for hydrocarbons in the header tank......

They should also do a pressure test on the coolaing system with the engine cold and look for signs of water loss....

How old is the car and what mileage....does the coolant look clean and with plenty of antifreeze.....

I suspect a standard coolant leak and not headgasket......but, test results are required first.

stuart30 have said they have positively identified exhaust fumes in header tank....

Im going to get a second opion as im not very trusting....seems odd a garage would do work for free,so will post back when second test is done.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Note.....the engine must be cold to do a pressure test or you want see where the leak is as it will evaporate......

[Paul M]

If it is HG failure that's causing the coolant leak I'd expect white smoke (steam actually) from the exhaust, as it's using a lot of water and that has to be going out the exhaust. I'm a little sceptical of the garage's claims to have tested though, it may well just be a coolant leak and they're bullshitting you.

[theolodian]

If it is HG failure that's causing the coolant leak I'd expect white smoke (steam actually) from the exhaust, as it's using a lot of water and that has to be going out the exhaust. I'm a little sceptical of the garage's claims to have tested though, it may well just be a coolant leak and they're bullshitting you.

As MDTM said the HG can go many different ways, steam out the exhaust is the type of HG failure that can't be something less serious.

Like you said though, worth being careful and double-checking what the garage says.

[irratic]

how much water are you loosing???if its a lot it has to go somewhere, out the exhaust or in the oil...or its a general leak...

[stuart30]

Note.....the engine must be cold to do a pressure test or you want see where the leak is as it will evaporate......

In which case the garage in question couldnt have done a pressure test as requested or if they did they have done it wrong,certainly worth knowing about cold engine.

Regards the water lose id say maybe 7/8 litres over a 20 mile run.

[TheBoy]

Note.....the engine must be cold to do a pressure test or you want see where the leak is as it will evaporate......

In which case the garage in question couldnt have done a pressure test as requested or if they did they have done it wrong,certainly worth knowing about cold engine.

Regards the water lose id say maybe 7/8 litres over a 20 mile run.

the system only holds 9l

[Matchless]

Water loss is very high, seems too high to be headgasket, does it boil and force water out of the filler cap? if not it has to be a split hose somewhere.

I would remove the wiper arms and scuttle to get access to the hoses at the back of the engine, refill the system then start it up and have a good look around.

[philayl]

Have you checked the Heater Bypass Valve, often the cause of sudden coolant loss, and not easy to spot.

[RobC_NE]

just for reference stuart30. the HBV (heater bypass valve) is located behind the engine. will probably have to remove the wiper scuttle to see it. a leak will be signified by staining on the engine and HBV. be warned tho, hbv failure can cause death to the DIS (ignintion) pack if not remedied  :-/

from experience, if the HG has gone i would expect to see some "mayo" in the filler neck and on the dipstick at the least.....