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[Gintonic]

Hello to everyone , I hope you are in good health
I have a FL 3.0 V6
Few days ago started losing coolant and last night it was very obvious there was coolant falling on the ground. When I look under the engine , liquid comes out from two places, more from the front side , less from the back side , but I can't see from where exactly it comes. This happens when car is running.
I suspect the oil cooler , but have no idea what to do , anyone had similar experience?
Thank you in advance

[Doctor Gollum]

Heater bypass valve or associated hose.

Should stop leaking if you switch the cabin temperature to the opposite of current settings. 

Costs about €15 to change, but is fiddly as access is tight...it's in the corner where the scuttle comes around the pollen filter housing. Being left hand drive, best bet is to remove the plenum/air intake... This will also allow you to check the oil cooler cover and possibly change the thermostat whilst you are there...

And before the naysayers jump in, unlike our right hand drive cars, pulling the scuttle won't actually give significantly better access, where as pulling the intake gives loads of room... (as well as the added benefits above).

Start with the HBV, and go from there

[Gintonic]

Thank you very much Doctor Gollum. That's behind the engine but , what about the front side behind the radiator , how does the water gets there?

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Runs down the V of the engine, depending which way the car is facing - uphill or downhill.

[Gintonic]

Took out the plenum , still can't see it , when I poor water in the coolant tank I can hear tit an see it getting out from the back of the engine , but it's far below the valve , even lower , yes in the ,,V,, sector there is a coolant left, but it comes from somewhere from the back. Should I take everything out and proceed?

[Nick W]

Took out the plenum , still can't see it , when I poor water in the coolant tank I can hear tit an see it getting out from the back of the engine , but it's far below the valve , even lower , yes in the ,,V,, sector there is a coolant left, but it comes from somewhere from the back. Should I take everything out and proceed?

Every mechanic should have an INSPECTION MIRROR and a torch for such eventualities. You can get expensive ones, but they're no better in use.

[dave the builder]

Every mechanic should have an INSPECTION MIRROR and a torch for such eventualities. You can get expensive ones, but they're no better in use.

A quid more for one with LED lighting is not going to break the bank though 

£5 clicky

though you could probably get it cheaper

[Gintonic]

Well, I m not a mechanic, and usually do this stuff when mechanic s won't do it , or make me wait for a week or so. Yes , I'm ordering a camera from aliex at the moment

[Doctor Gollum]

Took out the plenum , still can't see it , when I poor water in the coolant tank I can hear tit an see it getting out from the back of the engine , but it's far below the valve , even lower , yes in the ,,V,, sector there is a coolant left, but it comes from somewhere from the back. Should I take everything out and proceed?

The inlet and divider will give you a much better view if they aren't in the way

[jonathanh]

In the middle of the v there is the thermostat. - front of car.  Oil cooler cover plate (pretty much length of the engine. And coolant bridge at back with both coolant temp sensors in.  It could be any where along there.  I think it unlikely for the oil cooler cover plate or coolant bridge to let go quickly. More likely that they leak slowly. 

[Gintonic]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsqnaaumy0onr87/IMG_20201213_180509.jpg?dl=0

Sorry for the late response
As you can see I found it ( I hope I uploaded the picture  properly).
What now? Buy a new one or try to fix this one. old one has already been fixed once by previous owner. How to get this one out?
Do I replace all the gaskets with new ones , I m replacing the thermostat for sure , don't know if I can get the gaskets  in a short time.
Can I clean the petrol injectors , maybe polish inside of the intake manifold?
Thank you all for such a good advice. No mechanic where I live wanted to start working on it.

[Doctor Gollum]

New oil cooler required.

Genuine still available from the US for reasonable prices.

Undo the oil cooler lines from the oil filter end, and from the oil cooler plate.

Undo the oil cooler plate and jiggle it out.

Clean area and refit new one with grey goo and reattach the oil cooler lines. Definitely do the thermostat whilst you are there and if the cam cover gaskets need doing, then you may want to address them too.

The expensive bit is the oil cooler, stripping it down is the hardest part as the work is the same for all three jobs. 

[Gintonic]

How do I unbolt the cooler bridge, I just broke one of the bolts , it looks like it's not an ordinary bolt

[Doctor Gollum]

They're standard E torx bolts, although a six sided socket can work. Although apparently yours have never been out, so carefully remove the rest of them... You'll need to dig out the remains of any snapped bolts before you can fit the new cooler though.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

[jonathanh]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

I remember reading somewhere on here that the bolts don’t seize in so hopefully you’ll be able to remove the broken part.  Interested in how you get on. I have leak from coolant bridge and oil cover plate so likely to be doing the same job soon

[STEMO]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

I remember reading somewhere on here that the bolts don’t seize in so hopefully you’ll be able to remove the broken part.  Interested in how you get on. I have leak from coolant bridge and oil cover plate so likely to be doing the same job soon

Bet you're looking forward to it 

[jonathanh]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

I remember reading somewhere on here that the bolts don’t seize in so hopefully you’ll be able to remove the broken part.  Interested in how you get on. I have leak from coolant bridge and oil cover plate so likely to be doing the same job soon

Bet you're looking forward to it 

At least it’s logical. My other job is a rear engine mount on a 206: why design it with a driveshaft through it....

[Nick W]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

I remember reading somewhere on here that the bolts don’t seize in so hopefully you’ll be able to remove the broken part.  Interested in how you get on. I have leak from coolant bridge and oil cover plate so likely to be doing the same job soon

Bet you're looking forward to it 

At least it’s logical. My other job is a rear engine mount on a 206: why design it with a driveshaft through it....

French.

[Doctor Gollum]

Coolant bridge bolts are hollow banjo bolts. 

There's that...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-SAAB-V6-900-9000-9-5-ENGINE-OIL-COOLER-4770988-BRAND-NEW-/143110737600

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Opel-Astra-Engine-Oil-Cooler-Hose-Banjo-Bolt-GM-AC-Delco-90424578-/333593763134

https://www.skandix.de/en/spare-parts/accessories/din-assembly-parts/gaskets/seal-ring-oil-cooler-holow-screw/1043673/

https://www.onbuy.com/gb/acdelco-10-2010-rtv-engine-sealant-53-oz-cartridge~c6394~p10549588/

[Gintonic]

Well , I m continuing tomorrow.
Previous owner did not take care of the car too much, I presume that was driven on water some time and I cant get the other banjo bolt out, i dont want to brake it. Is there some trick that can Be done with it, or just brake and try to pull out with special bolt that rotates in other direction.
Also I took the 8 bolts that hold the oil cooler but was too tired to play with it.
All the bolts were tightened extremely hard, but where I live, torque wrench is only used for engine head tightening. Everything else depends on the mechanic and his hand
Im ordering tomorrow the cooler and thermostat and perhaps the bolts , if I find them.
Also will search the forum for Nm values for bolt tightening
I will keep you updated
Thank you all for valuable advices

[Doctor Gollum]

See my list...

Break it and fit new bolt to the new cooler

[jonathanh]

See my list...

Break it and fit new bolt to the new cooler

Think it is a coolant bridge bolt that broke.

To the OP   I think there is a kit on eBay that covers the oil cooler, plate, seals and grey sealant for 135. Courtney something or other

[Doctor Gollum]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WAHLER-Coolant-Thermostats-92-C-For-VAUXHALL-CALIBRA-OMEGA-4175-92D-/292924198876

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cadillac-Catera-CTS-Saturn-Vue-L-series-Thermostat-Housing-Tube-90411629-/200750794653

Whilst you're at it 

[Doctor Gollum]

See my list...

Break it and fit new bolt to the new cooler

Think it is a coolant bridge bolt that broke.

To the OP   I think there is a kit on eBay that covers the oil cooler, plate, seals and grey sealant for 135. Courtney something or other

Possibly, the oil cooler kit i linked to has the cover plate seals, pic shows them fitted to the cooler along with the retaining nuts, the banjo bolts and washers are only available separately, but the links give all the part numbers for shopping around 

I did see a VX dealer selling the cooler, cover plate, nuts and seals for £119, so please have a rummage before commititing 

[Gintonic]

Update
 As I said torque wrench and OEM parts it's not something that we practice over here
Here's what I found when I lifted the cover of the cooler

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/jijefloj91kv6m2/IMG20201214185044%20%281%29.jpg?dl=0]

So I'm getting a used cover plate until I get the original part  ,the cooler.
Thank you all for giving me great advices , and as always, special thanks to Dr Gollum for giving me links with all necessary parts that I need

[jonathanh]

Update
 As I said torque wrench and OEM parts it's not something that we practice over here
Here's what I found when I lifted the cover of the cooler

[https://www.dropbox.com/s/jijefloj91kv6m2/IMG20201214185044%20%281%29.jpg?dl=0]

So I'm getting a used cover plate until I get the original part  ,the cooler.
Thank you all for giving me great advices , and as always, special thanks to Dr Gollum for giving me links with all necessary parts that I need

wow - that has been bodged.  At least if i do mine i should expect to find an oil cooler unless it left the factory like yours...

[Gintonic]

Is there a drain plug on the block of the engine for coolant draining, or what's the best way to drain the coolant from the cooler?

[Doctor Gollum]

Pulling the bottom hose is the most efficient way of draoning it. Make sure the cabin temp is set to HI both sides before flushing and refilling.

Whilst you don't need to drain it to do what you're doing, but obviously will need to in order to flush/replace the coolant with the correct 50/50 mix rather than the rusty gunge that's probably in it. 

[Gintonic]

My garage is a bit like ok on uphill , so the front of the car is a bit higher than rear , if push the car out on aplain ground and pull the lower hose of the radiator, the full amount of water will leak out?

No there s only clean coolant in it, but it's weaken by a couple liters of water that I poured in so I could check where the leake is.

[Doctor Gollum]

You can't quite get it all out, but if it's fresh, just top it up with neat coolant when it's done

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

As for the broken banjo bolt. Hopefully you have a decent stub sticking up that you can get mole grips or similar on to.
Soak it with lots of penetrating fluid for a day or two if you can to give yourself a chance.

[Gintonic]

I m spraying the bolt every day with fluid. That became a major problem. Hopefully today I m getting every tool that Ican think of. What do you think about heating the bolts , what damage can it do to the head?

[Shackeng]

When undoing a reluctant bolt, once you have reached the torque that tells you you are about to shear it - only experience will tell you this for the given size of bolt - it is worth trying giving it a sharp tap on the bolt head and also try tightening the bolt very very slightly. Sometimes these efforts will be sufficient to break the stiction. Naturally having previously soaking it in releasing fluid will have helped. 

[Nick W]

I m spraying the bolt every day with fluid. That became a major problem. Hopefully today I m getting every tool that Ican think of. What do you think about heating the bolts , what damage can it do to the head?

unless you use an oxy-acetylene welding torch, you're really unlikely to damage the head.


I don't have any faith in penetrating fluid helping to loosen stuck fasteners, but it is a lubricant once you've got the thing turning.


If the bolt is flush with the surface, I would start  by grinding a slot in the threads to remove it. This needs to be done carefully to not damage the female threads!


If it's protruding, I would probably weld a nut to the top.

[Gintonic]

No, if the reverse grinding doesn't help, only with co2 welder, there s a lot of bolt left ( it broke where the holes are) I m quite positive that it will do the job.

[Doctor Gollum]

By the time you have scratched it out with a pick, you'll have the new parts fitted

[Gintonic]

Dr Gollum , as always you were right, there is a junk in the coolant , from the plate that was falling apart. I will have to do a flush. Please tell me what is the best way of doing it. On my vintage 1965 opel, I used to pour some liquid and run it until hot , then release. Same here?

[Doctor Gollum]

That works, if unorthodox.

You can flush (or replace) the heater matrix separately, but basically fit all the new bits and allow the sealant to fully cure.

Fill it with clean, distilled/deionised water (sold as battery top up water), set the cabin temp to Hi and leave the cap off.
Run until the top hose is hot (fans kick in and thermostat open).

Drain, radiator bottom hose or drain plug.

Allow to cool.

Repeat. Twice.

Allow to cool, refit drain/hose. Add 5 litres of concentrated pink coolant. Top up with distilled water.

Run until hot as above. Top up with water and refit cap.

Run until hot. Level should now be correct, heater free of air and working.

You could add a couple of dishwasher tablets (the briquette type, not the squishy plastic bag type) or a bottle of fernox central heating cleaner to the top hose for the initial flush. 

[Nick W]

It's not unorthodox, but normal


How about this for a method:


Buy a new thermostat and housing, then take the old stat out of the housing and bolt it back on. Make an adapter to fit in the top hose, and disconnect both from the radiator. Fit your garden hose to the adapter and flush the block until it comes out clean.


Refit the hoses to the radiator, and disconnect them from the engine. Repeat the flushing operation.


The header tank and any hoses attached to it can be flushed separately


If you have a vacuum source apply it to the HBV before doing the first part.

[Nick W]

Adapter like this:





32mm to fit the radiator hose, 1/2" for the garden hose, 8mm hole through the middle. Say 20mm long for each part, depending on what stock you have. Material is unimportant, from any machinable plastic upwards.

[dave the builder]

32mm is 1 1/4" plumbing pipe
clicky or similar

[Nick W]

32mm is 1 1/4" plumbing pipe
clicky or similar

that would mean gluing a 1/2" spigot over a hole.
Which would be easier for the poor saps that don't own a lathe

[Gintonic]

Nothing yet , can get thermostat out. Have no idea how. Took out the B bolt , disconnected the hose from radiator.Cant figure how to get it out .it won't go up , it's wider than the two heads. Can't pull it out from the other side. Since I m a graphic designer by profession, I need all of my 10 fingers , so that's it for today. I m going back on it tomorrow 😃

[Nick W]

Nothing yet , can get thermostat out. Have no idea how. Took out the B bolt , disconnected the hose from radiator.Cant figure how to get it out .it won't go up , it's wider than the two heads. Can't pull it out from the other side. Since I m a graphic designer by profession, I need all of my 10 fingers , so that's it for today. I m going back on it tomorrow 😃

You have to separate the thermostat housing from the transfer tube. Then the thermostat lifts out, and the transfer tube pulls to the side of the car.


They're often corroded together, and can both be damaged by separating them. Hence the OOF recommendation to buy a complete thermostat and housing(which is only a few £ more than the stat alone), and a new transfer tube. The snag is that the tube is GM only, and the price has risen considerably while availability has declined.


If you want to make an annoying job into a big one, you could remove the cam belt, cam pullies and the cover backing plate to remove the thermostat housing and transfer tube as one part.

[Doctor Gollum]

All in the parts I linked

[Nick W]

Every mechanic should have an INSPECTION MIRROR and a torch for such eventualities. You can get expensive ones, but they're no better in use.

A quid more for one with LED lighting is not going to break the bank though 

£5 clicky

though you could probably get it cheaper

I've got one, and find the extra weight and size of the head isn't helpful for the rather weak joints. Or for getting it into the places you want to look at. Small round mirrors are the tool of choice

[Jan Suhr]

Late post but here are all the part numbers and a schematic
https://vauxhall.7zap.com/en/car/v94/e/5/29-0/

[Gintonic]

Managed to take the banjo bolts out, using a co2 welder. Now I m gonna seal everything up , get everything to it's place drive like that because I need a car for winter, after I gather all the needed parts, I replace them.
PS only available thermostat at the moment is one from Vernet 35 eu , or BorgWarner 15 eu.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ogk46u9q410xst/IMG20201219180236.jpg?dl=0

[Doctor Gollum]

Did you look at my list

[Gintonic]

I noticed one thing. My cooler plate and coolant bridge are , don't know the right word , I ll just say rotten or on some places where there s some blue crystal like stuff from the coolant. In 2 years of ownership I take special care of the engine , good oil and good coolant, always checkin
g the level of both , watching the gauges while driving etc.
On the other hand I bought second hand cooler plate and bridge from a very neglected engine that was left on the open and obviously  driven with water. But the state of the plate and the bridg was much much better then mine. Do you think that G11 coolant has something to do with it , my parts are like rotten with holes in it.

[Doctor Gollum]

Coolant should be a pinky orange colour, not blue, so no that may not help.

Also, you have absolutely no idea how old that plate is.

Given the work involved, fitting second hand coolant parts is insane.

[Gintonic]

Yes , dr Gollum I looked at your parts list , saved it in my phone.
But where I live it's almost impossible to get those parts in quick time.
It's a long story why , and it's connected to the fact that I live in non EU country

[Doctor Gollum]

Yes , dr Gollum I looked at your parts list , saved it in my phone.
But where I live it's almost impossible to get those parts in quick time.
It's a long story why , and it's connected to the fact that I live in non EU country

So do we...

[Gintonic]

Dr Gollum , I have no other choice but to make that car functional in a short time, it's my only driving car. I have one Opel from 1965 but that one drives 225 50 15 summer tires and its not suitable for driving in winter

[Doctor Gollum]

I sympathise with that, and may have otherwise suggested some jb weld or similar to patch the hole pending parts.

But, it is what it is, and you've probably three weeks before you are likely to be able to get anything. 

[Gintonic]

Tree weeks in normal times. With current situation and closed borders , might take more.
I will get all the parts eventually and I will make the engine as it should be.

[Gintonic]

Hello, sorry I didn't write update for a long time
Car is fine now , driving for a few days , no leaks , heating  working a bit better.
Unfortunately I couldn't find oil cooler so I had to reuse that spartater pipe invention.
Somehow I found original GM thermostat, for about 30 eu it is very very cheap , since no name one was about 60 eu.
New gasket for the cooler plate was made. New washers and new o ring seals changed.
New coolant and it's running driving again.
After this winter I m changing the oil cooler with original and all that work again
I would like to change valve cover gaskets and maybe change covers with the ones from vectra v6 , you think that is smart to do?
Thank you all for so good advice and links to parts

[Doctor Gollum]

You can get a new oil cooler, you just didn't want to... 

But if it works...  Result on the thermostat though 

The Vectra covers are ok, but you make the oil cap inaccessible, and unless you clean the breathers between short oil changes, you will gain zero benefit.

Make sure the plastic ones aren't warped and fit new seals as per the guide.

[BazaJT]

Surely the oil cooler plate doesn't have a gasket and uses grey sealant? Or were earlier engines different in this regard?

[Doctor Gollum]

Surely the oil cooler plate doesn't have a gasket and uses grey sealant? Or were earlier engines different in this regard?

Possibly lost in translation 

[BazaJT]

Fair point DG.

[Gintonic]

Dr Gollum , I will get new oil cooler. Just had to wait for a long time. I needed the car to be in working condition.
Bazajt , in lack of original part, I used second hand cooler plate , with some DIY bypass done by some owner before me
So , no gasket , no cooler no seals
I bought everything separately

[Gintonic]

But changing the thermostat was a new experience, 15 years ago I totally restored my opel Rekord from 1965.
If  I have to choose again between thermostat and oil cooler or  restoration job,  it would be second one without hesitation. 
So , Happy New Year to everyone. May you all have successful 2021.