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Author Topic: Head gasket or piston rings  (Read 2247 times)

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Lstuart93

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Head gasket or piston rings
« on: 25 January 2021, 15:25:18 »

Hello,

I have a 2003 3.2 V6, checked the oil today and it doesn't look good! Extremely thick cream at the filler. The car hasn't used a drop of water but there is a smell of petrol.
The engine only has 75000 miles on it, could it be the piston rings are knackered?
Has anyone had this issue before?


Thanks, Lee

« Last Edit: 25 January 2021, 15:35:19 by Lstuart93 »
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #1 on: 25 January 2021, 15:36:20 »

A couple of points...

1. Extremely unlikely to be headgasket unless seriously abused and neglected.

2. How much do you use the car?

3. Some oils 'mayo' much more readily in the Omega. Castrol being a case in point. Genuine VX/GM oil doesn't seem to do this.

4. Change the oil every 5,000 miles (or annually if mileage is less), not the 10-20,000 suggested in the service book.

Get the engine nice and hot and change the oil and filter.

Repeat a week later and report back.  :y
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Lstuart93

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #2 on: 25 January 2021, 15:39:00 »

I use the car daily but only do around 10 miles, it has had a miss fire recently when cold though.

Oil was done about 10K ago so will try changing it and see what happens!

Cheers
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Lstuart93

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #3 on: 25 January 2021, 15:44:39 »

Is it worth putting an engine flush product through once the oil is changed the first time?
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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #4 on: 25 January 2021, 15:59:43 »

Wynns flush for the first change, and lifter treatment with the second. ;)

10 miles a day is as much a part of the problem as the oil.

Ideally you need to double that as you're currently not getting it hot enough for the condensation to evaporate.

Do the pedal trick (there's a guide) and report back re the misfire.

Probably moisture or camcover gaskets or a combination of both. You'll need to clean the breathers too (again a guide) because if there's that much in the cap, the breathers are probably blocked...

This has probably blown the camcover gaskets from crankcase pressure. This in turn allows oil into the plug wells which is probably the cause of your misfire.

All of which falls under the regular Omega weakspots.

Basically there's 10 ish items that will require doing between 80-120k miles without fail. Breathers, coil packs, camcover gaskets being three of them ;)

Plugs are probably due a change on mileage as well...
« Last Edit: 25 January 2021, 16:03:08 by Doctor Gollum »
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deviator

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #5 on: 25 January 2021, 16:00:09 »

I would suggest oil cooler first, before rings/head gasket.
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Doctor Gollum

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #6 on: 25 January 2021, 16:01:38 »

Treating the engine maintenance with a modicum of respect and regularity will allow them to run to 300k miles with minimal fuss.  ;)
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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #7 on: 25 January 2021, 16:07:58 »

I would suggest oil cooler first, before rings/head gasket.
Nonsense.  ;D

Failed oil cooler puts oil into the coolant, not the other way around due to the pressures involved. MarkDTM gave a decent explanation how/why a few years ago  ;)

Basically oil goes: Sump-pump-filter-cooler-galleries-sump.

So it isn't physically possible to get water in the oil from the cooler :y
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dave the builder

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #8 on: 25 January 2021, 16:36:35 »

The oil cap filler neck extension comes off pretty easy to clean it up and avoid dumping mayo into the head  :)
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jb

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #9 on: 25 January 2021, 19:14:43 »

change oil and filter for a good 10w40 such as GM own and not Castrol.
Remove the fill neck and place the yellow cap direct in the cam cover. The fill neck encourages mayo build up.
If you only do 10 miles pr day change oil every 6 months to avoid moisture build up/mayo
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cam.in.head

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #10 on: 25 January 2021, 20:09:59 »

yes standard symptoms of short journeys.

mine only gets used 2 or 3 times every other week and does 3 mile to and 3 mile from work and gets a similar build up.
as dave says easy enough to remove filler neck to clean .

check oil on dipstick .(and oil level)

occasional misfire ( after doing pedal test ) is most likely water in plug wells due to dripping from under scuttle or can be oil too from leaking cover gasket.
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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #11 on: 25 January 2021, 20:21:39 »

As others have said, Drain the oil, get either a GM 10/40 semi or a quality fully syn 5/30.  I used 5/30 fully syn from euro car parts, in my3.2.   I still use the same oil in my Saab.

 The 3.2 produces a lot of condense in the engine and needs good mileage to burn it off,  they don't like shopping mileage.
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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #12 on: 25 January 2021, 21:04:49 »

Just to add these cars are very
 rewarding to drive, take it for a good hard drive at least once a month 30/40 miles It will pay you back👍
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Nick W

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #13 on: 25 January 2021, 21:27:48 »

That's pretty normal, especially considering your usage.

Worn piston rings won't cause it, and that's a rare fault on a modern engine. These head gaskets tend not to fail, and don't cause this symptom when they do. Oil coolers do fail, but the oil leaks into the cooling system.

I would:


Do an oil and filter change. I found using 5w30 instead of 10w40 made mine much noisier, and even more prone to leaks.
Remove the filler neck, clean all the gunk off it and the cap, then screw the cap directly to the cam-cover. Use a funnel to add oil.
Check all the usual areas for oil leaks. These engines are normally filthy as they leak from a number of places. Sorting the plenum, breathers and cam covers should be considered necessary for any new Omega acquisition.
Fit six new plugs an inspect the rest of the ignition system - that's probably your misfire. Another Omega 'feature'
Replace the thermostat so it gets up to temperature quickly - it's a modern engine, and it should be hot.
Do a longer run more often.


That list ought to reduce the amount of mayonnaise that the engine produces. Some won't cause any problems, and you just live with it.





I don't see any point in the really short oil changes for petrol engines recommended here, but I'm in a minority.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2021, 21:33:01 by Nick W »
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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #14 on: 26 January 2021, 04:09:16 »

Changing the oil more frequently will reduce the amount of mayo produced as it will have less time to accumulate.

Personally, I used to change mine every 10k miles, but because of the usage, that meant every 8-12 weeks. Some days were over 250 miles, so it was barely ever cold...
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Nick W

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #15 on: 26 January 2021, 09:35:33 »

Changing the oil more frequently will reduce the amount of mayo produced as it will have less time to accumulate.

Personally, I used to change mine every 10k miles, but because of the usage, that meant every 8-12 weeks. Some days were over 250 miles, so it was barely ever cold...


I did mine annually, which tended to be about 9k miles. That left a smear of mayonnaise on the cap. Emptying a 5l can into the engine would be just below the max mark on the dipstick, and it would be just below the 1/2 way mark by the time the next change was due, without a top up in between. Mileage was mostly sub 10 mile commutes, with an 1800 mile holiday trip and occasional single long runs.


Apart from one accidental fill of 5-30, it got whatever 10-40 was in the 200l drum at work. Don't know what brand it was, and don't care - it's never made a noticeable difference in over 30 years of working on cars.


One of the many things I preferred about the Omega than the 525 I had before it was that it was much less fussy on the servicing - the BMW had a variable oil-service indicator that never made it to 5000 miles, or without a top-up, and it always needed new spark plugs at that change too. The only part that was better was that lacking an adjustable front suspension. alignment wasn't an issue although like all strut front ends it still wore out control arms.
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #16 on: 26 January 2021, 10:08:07 »

I would suggest oil cooler first, before rings/head gasket.

Never

Please explain how the oil cooler gets water in the oil (the oil here is much higher pressure than the water) and the header tank does not look like a Hellmans advert  :y

Similarly rings........they don't get water into the oil..

This is the common old engine not getting hot issue.
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Enceladus

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #17 on: 26 January 2021, 12:40:27 »

Yep. Low miles and engine not fully warmed up. Won't do the back box any good either.

Warm the engine and drain the oil. Clear the crankcase breathers and unblock the breather bridge. Change the oil filter and refill with 10W-40 semi-synthetic. Run for 1000 miles or so. Try and do a longer trip maybe once a week, bit hard at the moment I know. And then change the oil and filter again.

I would advise not to use 5W-30 or any of the fully synthetic oil grades unless the engine has been using this from nearly new. At best your engine is now at least 18 years old, so full synthetic will likely induce awkward to fix leaks. Stick with the 10W-40.
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johnnydog

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Re: Head gasket or piston rings
« Reply #18 on: 26 January 2021, 14:00:39 »


I would advise not to use 5W-30 or any of the fully synthetic oil grades unless the engine has been using this from nearly new. At best your engine is now at least 18 years old, so full synthetic will likely induce awkward to fix leaks. Stick with the 10W-40.

I agree with this recommendation about using 5/30 Fully Synthethic oil as good as it is for modern cars, changing the oil to a thinner viscosity on an older car isn't always beneficial.
When I got my 3.2 estate, I decided to treat it to 'the good stuff' although in all its history it had been filled with 10/40 S/S.
After a short space of time it developed the 'warm oil' smell usually associated with minor oil leaks onto hot engine components. I decided to drain it off and filled it with 10/40. Although I never actually saw any visible oil leaks, the 'hot oil' smell disappeared a week or so later and it has been fine ever since.
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