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[05omegav6]

Which brings us round neatly to the two millimeters of play in the steering box between left and right... Which isn't generally an issue, but which will significantly compound any issues resulting from worn components and whimsical geometry settings...

[chrisgixer]

....and doesn't allow a quick steering set up due to the reverse friction inherent in all steering boxes that causes a slow centering steering action. So dictates a castor setting to suit, ime. Not quite as bad as Mercs though.

Is yours a box Al?

[05omegav6]

A rack I guess summat to do with V8 downpipes...

[terry paget]

My thanks to Chris for his comprehensive  response to my note, and the reference to feeutfo’s essay on setting up Omegas., which I have read several times.

As described two years ago, I have devised a quick, accurate and reliable method of setting toe-in precisely with the steering wheel central. I know Chris and Al do not approve of it, but it has never failed me, or damaged a wishbone. Sassenach approved it, bless him, ruling the wooden block unnecessary.

I did once try to adjust camber angle. I could only do it with the wheel off, using a long lever to move the hub with the screws loosened. In no way was it a precise adjustment, and only measurable when I had replaced the wheel and lowered it to the ground.  I wonder how WIM do it. Does anyone know? Perhaps I could do it with the wishbones supported as for toe-in setting, using the wheel as the lever.

Take it to WIM Chesham, you will say. In the last six weeks I have struggled three Omegas through MOT tests. All three needed new trackrods and/or wishbones. A split trackrod gaiter means a fail these days. It all means effort and expense. Traipsing over to Chesham and paying WIM £100 every time goes against the grain.

[Seth]

Traipsing over to Chesham and paying WIM £100 every time goes against the grain.

Seek and thou shall find: http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php

Nearest to you are: http://www.fcmwheelalignment.co.uk/# in Bristol, or: http://www.carsontyre.co.uk/ in Melksham.
Both WIM-approved, who'll use WIM specs.

 

[chrisgixer]

£70 if mentioning OOF discount.

But even so I see your point.

However bending wishbones aside, there's no way to judge the accuracy of any procedure until you've encountered and compared against the bench mark.

Its a bit like cam belt locking kits. A lot of people say changing a v6 cam belt can be done without a locking kit. Which is true, it can indeed be done. I've done it myself pre forum days as I didn't know any better. But having now used the v6 locking kit obviously, I can tell anyone who asks that it is a great deal easier, quicker and more accurate more importantly to this conversation, than not using it. Its a no brainer.


Applying that to your situation, conversely I don't know how your going about your set up as I've not seen it, it might be spot on, but the comparison applies where your good self hasn't seen the alternative of the v6 locking kit when it comes to geo set up. The hunter hawk computerised rig that wim use.
 So as a practical man such as yourself I'm sure you can appreciate our pov in that we can't really agree with you as a general recommendation to people here as a rule.

Everyone's situation is different and I sympathise greatly with anyone running more than one omega. One is enough for me. But I do think the phrase don't knock until you've tried it applies Terry tbh.




The main immediate gain from set up is to save tyre wear. Arguably the second consideration is handling and feel of the car to the driver. So given that your fleet has never seen set up, and especially camber is unmeasured, I personally feel an amount of concern, and would urge you to try set up at least once. Take your worst handling car with worst tyre wear maybe?

Even if its a local company?

Trust me though, there is no loyalty to wim here other than to repay the help they have given us over the years. We don't recommend them for no reason. Granted there's a few exceptions who have been unhappy, I've had agro meself getting the steering wheel central. But again, we can't really apply a general rule to very individual cases such as yours with so many cars. I sympathise greatly.

There is a camber setting guide btw, if you've seen it? Key is to get the correct tension on the camber bolts to allow movement without slip.

[YZ250]

Whilst I fully agree that suspension parts should be replaced in pairs, the standard of our roads has seen an increase in single wishbones being changed due to pothole damage. DIY'ers like us will replace in pairs due to set-up costs but garages won't, they'll replace just the damaged/worn one. 
Not ideal having different age wishbones on your car as it throws up future problems but it is happening. 

[05omegav6]

WIM use a ramp and jack the end they are working on... every adjustment is made with the wheels on

Whilst it does seem alot, a misaligned Omega can destroy a pair of tyres in days, so the cost is relative imho, and should be treated as a service point and budgeted accordingly 

Terry, perhaps it would be prudent to get your cars MoTd early in order to stagger them, so you have an MoT to worry about every two months rather than all together... this would spread the workload and costs more effectively 

[chrisgixer]

....sorry, re camber guide, i should be clear.

It does rely on the original setting being somewhere near correct. So its more for replicating the original setting, rather than finding the correct setting.

So firstly there is no way of finding the correct setting to within tolerance without geo set up. The Hunter rig takes calculations that allow the the operator to measure the settings at normal ride height, then work out the new adjustment with wheels hanging. The final check is then made when the car is lowered to normal ride height again.

Secondly, this might be a way forward for you, given your happy to drive a non set up car, in that perhaps its worth setting up one car so you know its correct, then looking at ways to measure that car and transfer those settings onto the others...?


After all, if your happy with the tyre wear and the way it drives, ultimately, why worry. But you may well find that the car drives better and the wish you'd had set up done before.
 I certainly find it frustrating if the car isn't quite right, that I've missed the performance on the life of the tyres up to that point.

[terry paget]

Traipsing over to Chesham and paying WIM £100 every time goes against the grain.

Seek and thou shall find: http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tyre-fitting-centres.php

Nearest to you are: http://www.fcmwheelalignment.co.uk/# in Bristol, or: http://www.carsontyre.co.uk/ in Melksham.
Both WIM-approved, who'll use WIM specs.

 

Thanks Seth. The Bristol outfit looks most competent, good website and will do 4 wheel alignment and adjust toe-in for £25. Not far from Vauxhall Direct in Avon Street, my nearest , trade club source. I must make contact.

[terry paget]

Whilst I fully agree that suspension parts should be replaced in pairs, the standard of our roads has seen an increase in single wishbones being changed due to pothole damage. DIY'ers like us will replace in pairs due to set-up costs but garages won't, they'll replace just the damaged/worn one. 
Not ideal having different age wishbones on your car as it throws up future problems but it is happening. 

Was more of a problem buying unknown e-bay wishbones. Now I buy ATEC wishbone/trackrod/droplink kits, and they are much better.
On one occasion son Jonny's car passed its MOT, but driving it home I did not like it, steering twitched on braking. I traced it to front wishbone bushes, so changed both wishbones before returning the car to my son. So I will change wishbones if there is a fault in them. In the current case I changed one wishbone, tested it under braking, no twitch, so I accepted it.

[terry paget]

I learn from the FCM website about the various steering parameters. Caster angle,  if positive, make for heavy steering; if negative for light but twitchy steering; main requirment is that it be the same both sides, or steering will pull one way; no effect on tyre wear. Camber angle, if wrong, can cause uneven tyre wear side to side; no effect on handling. Toe-in, measure of how parallel the front wheels are, affects tyre wear, stability, handling, and is critical.

I learn from Al and Chris that WIM do all their measurements and settings with wheels on and suspended, to calculated settings, then check settings with wheels lowered and load bearing. Fair enough. Better than the tyre shops and garages I have seen setting toe-in with the wheels on the ground, or even on a ramp on greased pads, adjusting just one track rod.

I agree with Chris I should take a car to FCM Bristol and have it set up just to see how a well set up car feels. But just now I have to get KR02 SRO though its MOT. It needs a new exhaust system for a start.

[05omegav6]

It's worth noting that a decent workshop will gladly talk you through any given task. WIM for example, are happy to explain what is happening as each adjustment is made. This is because they take pride in what they do and treat questions as a chance to explain things

What makes this refreshing is that alot of places react negatively to questions because they suggest you aren't happy with summat and treat them as a slur on their work rather than keen curiosity...