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Author Topic: DPF removal Q...  (Read 4280 times)

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05omegav6

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DPF removal Q...
« on: 05 January 2014, 23:04:56 »

I've heard it suggested that the 1.9 CDTI lump can have the DPF gutted and the ECU reprogrammed to 'forget' that the DPF was ever fitted...  :-\

Does this apply to the 3.0 CDTI as well, or even to other manufacturers :-\
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #1 on: 05 January 2014, 23:10:24 »

I think DPF's are MOT'able now Al.  If a DPF has been fitted then it has to work.  :-\

EDIT: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rules-for-mot-to-test-for-diesel-particulate-filter
« Last Edit: 05 January 2014, 23:13:44 by Sir Tigger »
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #2 on: 05 January 2014, 23:13:34 »

I think DPF's are MOT'able now Al.  If a DPF has been fitted then it has to work.  :-\

Is that a 'it looks fitted' or specifically 'tested'  :-\ thinking along the lines of drop exhaust, remove innards from above, weld up and refit...
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Vamps

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #3 on: 05 January 2014, 23:19:49 »

I think DPF's are MOT'able now Al.  If a DPF has been fitted then it has to work.  :-\

Is that a 'it looks fitted' or specifically 'tested'  :-\ thinking along the lines of drop exhaust, remove innards from above, weld up and refit...

This seems to be something on all modern diesels now, having done some research after my Citroen post, replacement against fuel costs seems to be Ok to me though, remember petrol has the Cat to do the same sort of job and that fails. £500 to replace after about 80000 miles, less if it has regular Italian tune up's.................. :-\ :-\ :-\
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #4 on: 05 January 2014, 23:21:24 »

How do you take the guts out, with out it being obvious that it's been tampered with?  ???

I would have thought that any tester would just fail it once they spot a patch welded on?  :-\
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #5 on: 05 January 2014, 23:25:56 »

How do you take the guts out, with out it being obvious that it's been tampered with?  ???

I would have thought that any tester would just fail it once they spot a patch welded on?  :-\
Master, iirc, suggested a way of doing it surreptitiously  :-\
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #6 on: 05 January 2014, 23:33:49 »

I think DPF's are MOT'able now Al.  If a DPF has been fitted then it has to work.  :-\

Is that a 'it looks fitted' or specifically 'tested'  :-\ thinking along the lines of drop exhaust, remove innards from above, weld up and refit...

This seems to be something on all modern diesels now, having done some research after my Citroen post, replacement against fuel costs seems to be Ok to me though, remember petrol has the Cat to do the same sort of job and that fails. £500 to replace after about 80000 miles, less if it has regular Italian tune up's.................. :-\ :-\ :-\
I've only 'needed' to replace the cats on one car, and that was due to debris impact damage, namely hitting an upturned manhole cover at 60 ::)
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #7 on: 05 January 2014, 23:34:41 »

Oe cats are reliable I thought? It's the pattern shite that's, er, shite.
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jimbobmccoy

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #8 on: 05 January 2014, 23:37:45 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #9 on: 05 January 2014, 23:42:37 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?
As I understand it, the diesel emissions test is a simple visual smoke test...
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #10 on: 05 January 2014, 23:42:46 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?
That's the question really. I think Al is looking for reliable short journey use, currently not possible with a Dpf.

Bloody madness it seems to me...
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Nick W

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #11 on: 05 January 2014, 23:47:52 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?

DPF is Diesel Particulate Filter. It's there to hopefully burn off most of the black soot(particulates!) seen in exhausts from badly setup, low rpm diesels.

Of course, putting a filter in an exhaust couldn't possibly get blocked. Could it?
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Vamps

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #12 on: 05 January 2014, 23:52:46 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?
That's the question really. I think Al is looking for reliable short journey use, currently not possible with a Dpf.

Bloody madness it seems to me...

Indeed when every other car seems to be a diesel, currently looking around at Petrol cars, but not totally convinced, given fuel savings over petrol......... :-\ :-\ ;)
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #13 on: 05 January 2014, 23:54:04 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?
That's the question really. I think Al is looking for reliable short journey use, currently not possible with a Dpf.

Bloody madness it seems to me...

Indeed when every other car seems to be a diesel, currently looking around at Petrol cars, but not totally convinced, given fuel savings over petrol......... :-\ :-\ ;)
Lpg
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #14 on: 06 January 2014, 00:02:05 »

I was under the impression removal would show up on an emissions test at an mot.
One of the purposes of the dpf is to reduce co2 emissions no?

DPF is Diesel Particulate Filter. It's there to hopefully burn off most of the black soot(particulates!) seen in exhausts from badly setup, low rpm diesels.

Of course, putting a filter in an exhaust couldn't possibly get blocked. Could it?
Cynic... ;D
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jimbobmccoy

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #15 on: 06 January 2014, 00:04:11 »

While I may not be on the money about what it does, I have had a car scrapped due to a blocked one.

'Twas a work car, pug 407 (I think, the sporty looking one) used for a mix of motorway and town driving, so should have recharged regularly. Ended up blocked and blowing the exhaust off the brackets!!

Out of interest looked at removal implications and mot seemed to be an issue-this was 5 yrs back tho.

Seemed a fantastically flawed engineering idea, aimed purely at the business market.

Diesel cars-fleet use.
3 years/60-80k miles, mainly motorway use.
Car moves on, business customer happy. Short time later, second owner gets shafted.
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jimbobmccoy

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #16 on: 06 January 2014, 00:08:41 »

That being said, if your journeys suit it, I still think a modern diesel is hard to beat from an economy perspective. As much as people moan about rev ranges and the like, most modern 2 litre diesels will easily drive as well as their equivalent petrol counterpart (IMO)

Of course they drive differently, but if we're all as good a driver as we think we are that shouldn't cause us an issue should it? ;)
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #17 on: 06 January 2014, 00:12:46 »

While I may not be on the money about what it does, I have had a car scrapped due to a blocked one.

'Twas a work car, pug 407 (I think, the sporty looking one) used for a mix of motorway and town driving, so should have recharged regularly. Ended up blocked and blowing the exhaust off the brackets!!

Out of interest looked at removal implications and mot seemed to be an issue-this was 5 yrs back tho.

Seemed a fantastically flawed engineering idea, aimed purely at the business market.

Diesel cars-fleet use.
3 years/60-80k miles, mainly motorway use.
Car moves on, business customer happy. Short time later, second owner gets shafted.
No main dealer would ever sanction such 'adjustment', hence asking the question here :y

Interestingly, although the MoT ruling comes into force in February, I'm not sure how enforceable it is... after all, some cars may have been previously availble with/without a DPF as a factory option. Equally would Police spec vehicles been required to have them and at what point did they become mandatory...
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Vamps

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #18 on: 06 January 2014, 00:14:06 »

While I may not be on the money about what it does, I have had a car scrapped due to a blocked one.

'Twas a work car, pug 407 (I think, the sporty looking one) used for a mix of motorway and town driving, so should have recharged regularly. Ended up blocked and blowing the exhaust off the brackets!!

Out of interest looked at removal implications and mot seemed to be an issue-this was 5 yrs back tho.

Seemed a fantastically flawed engineering idea, aimed purely at the business market.

Diesel cars-fleet use.
3 years/60-80k miles, mainly motorway use.

Car moves on, business customer happy. Short time later, second owner gets shafted.

So I should be Ok buying a 16k miles with expectation of running for 3 years, 45k and moving on............ :y

It's amazing the different opinions you get of different forums........ ;) ;)
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #19 on: 06 January 2014, 00:25:59 »

Depends on how the car was used Vamps :-\

If it's an ex rental car, expect it to be bloxed, one 'owner' never serviced, six months old pos.
Motorbility car? might have done one long motorway trip each week and nothing else, or might have done two miles to the shops everyday...

Compared to the Omega, a diesel car might cost between 2 and 12ppm less to run, assuming you can get anywhere near the combined economy figures...

Lpg does offer diesel running costs without ruinous repair bills :-\
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Kevin Wood

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #20 on: 06 January 2014, 00:32:31 »

The thing is, a petrol cat will survive a load of abuse and it only takes a few minutes of even urban driving for it to start working and cleanse itself, so there is no issue with short trips. DPFs are a different animal and simply don't survive being used mainly for short trips. They will and do fail very early.

MOT emissions checking doesn't currently determine whether the DPF is functioning. I'm not even sure it's possible from a tailpipe test, as if you brought in a vehicle that's in the process of regenerating, you'd be on a hiding to nothing. This is why the ECU on an EU4 car is required to monitor and manage the DPF condition and light the emissions light if there's a problem. It's also why an emissions light is an MOT failure.
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #21 on: 06 January 2014, 00:45:24 »

Hypothetically then, could a tech 2 make the DPF disappear  :-\

Rapidly narrowing my choice of cars down to two, either a v6 diesel Vectra (assuming the dpf 'issue' can be dealt with), or a V70 T6 (lpg'd if it'll take it) and hope the slushbox holds out :-\
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #22 on: 06 January 2014, 00:57:51 »

Front wheel drive auto? Wince. C70 auto box failed after refurbing throttle body. 70k on the clock. Granted yours is a newer model but fitting all those gears in between the output and the wheel means an offset drive line, and instantly becomes weaker. But they may be more reliable these days?

I'd of thought an auto would be much easier day to day. Preferably correct wheel drive though.

...not helping am I Dad? ;D
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #23 on: 06 January 2014, 00:58:53 »

What's the wheel well like in the vectra estate btw?
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #24 on: 06 January 2014, 01:19:05 »

T6 is AWD :y, if the box goes bang, one from a diesel manual XC70 AWD might be encouraged to fit, but don't really want to think about that bridge unless I get to it ::)

Vectra C estate will take a full size spare, so has potential for lpg... but, the only decent petrol choices are the 1.8 or the 2.8. The 2.2 is a dog of an engine. 1.8 is only a five speed, and rarely available in white... 2.8 a bit more common, but as you've seen, fitting LPG is easier said than done due to the complete lack of clearance around the plenum :-\
« Last Edit: 06 January 2014, 01:23:11 by ex taxi al »
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #25 on: 06 January 2014, 08:28:02 »

A few DPF facts

1) Its a fine ceramic filter which traps the particulates in the exhaust gases
2) Its nothing like a cat
3) Its a requirement to meet Euro 4
4) It MUST regenerate around every 1000k miles.
5) If they are able to regenerate then they could last the life of the car (somehwat type dependent)

And its no4 that is the issue for your average user who does short trips as you can see a clog with only say 1200 miles on the clock from new or 1200 miles after its bought second hand (or less!)

The regen has the engine inject fuel late in the combustion cycle to raise the exhaust temperatures to circa 500 deg C (its a bit less on the shitroen engine due to magic additive they add, probably around 450 deg C), regen typicaly takes around 8-10 minutes and only works well with the engine loaded and at circa 2000rpm plus.

Removal involves dropping the DPF, cutting the top off and then removing the internal filter, weld back upa dn refit and its not possible to see the modification. The MOT smoke test also can not detect it.

Not sure about the 3.0 CDTi Al regarding tech 2 disable, it can certainly be deleted by other means though.
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #26 on: 06 January 2014, 08:51:21 »

I guess in theory, if you're aware of the DPF and how it works then what could possibly go wrong?  ???  :o 

Provided you give it a weekly 'Italian tune' that is.....  :-\
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #27 on: 06 January 2014, 09:05:31 »

I guess in theory, if you're aware of the DPF and how it works then what could possibly go wrong?  ???  :o 

Provided you give it a weekly 'Italian tune' that is.....  :-\

Its more a case of being able to recognise when its started the regen and being able to drive so that it completes its cycle.....not always possible if in a city or town centre.

And clearly, for your average person on the street its a techniology which is very beyond them and hence all the issues that get seen on all makes of vehicles fitted with them
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #28 on: 06 January 2014, 09:14:53 »

I can't help wonder why manufacturers appear to struggle with the basic tune?

Chipping remapping or retuning a diesel appears to see good improvements on all front's afaict. Better power output is the first obvious one. But also better economy as well, with less smoke.
My understanding is the black smoke is caused by Unburnt fuel, so what's the difficulty about tuning a diesel that means its easier to fit a Dpf than tune the engine to give less smoke or a cleaner burn?

I'm missing something clearly. No pun intended. ;D


Apart from waisting fuel, why can't the Dpf set its own throttle at 2000rpm while the car is on the drive? Do its regen, then let the driver in his way?
Edit, actually, that wouldn't be very fool proof. ;D
« Last Edit: 06 January 2014, 09:21:14 by chrisgixer »
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I_want_an_Omega

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #29 on: 06 January 2014, 09:17:20 »

I guess in theory, if you're aware of the DPF and how it works then what could possibly go wrong?  ???  :o 

Provided you give it a weekly 'Italian tune' that is.....  :-\

Its more a case of being able to recognise when its started the regen and being able to drive so that it completes its cycle.....not always possible if in a city or town centre.

And clearly, for your average person on the street its a techniology which is very beyond them and hence all the issues that get seen on all makes of vehicles fitted with them

So, how exactly would you do that? I had a '59 C5 with the 2.0 140 Hdi engine. I did over 60k in it in two years. It was used for long runs most times it was used - about 60 miles up & down the A1, so at motorway speeds. In all the time I had it there was no clue that it ever did a regen. No lights, never felt anything unusual at all .........
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #30 on: 06 January 2014, 09:36:42 »

I can't help wonder why manufacturers appear to struggle with the basic tune?

Chipping remapping or retuning a diesel appears to see good improvements on all front's afaict. Better power output is the first obvious one. But also better economy as well, with less smoke.
My understanding is the black smoke is caused by Unburnt fuel, so what's the difficulty about tuning a diesel that means its easier to fit a Dpf than tune the engine to give less smoke or a cleaner burn?

I'm missing something clearly. No pun intended. ;D


Apart from waisting fuel, why can't the Dpf set its own throttle at 2000rpm while the car is on the drive? Do its regen, then let the driver in his way?
Edit, actually, that wouldn't be very fool proof. ;D

Manufacturers have considerably more constraints than the tuning companies, not least they have to meet the full EC specs which gives the compromised tunes where as once built and type approved, an MOT smoke test is the only real check the engine will ever see from that point on (and the new visual inspection of emmission control components).

The economy gains on modern diesels are some what over stated, tuning boxes as an example may appear form the TC (trip computer) to give better economy but any improvements are negligable (the tuning boxes modify the rail pressure signal to the ECU making it think it needs a longer duration of injection so more fuel is dumped in but, the TC uses the duration v pressure to calculate economy so the TC figures become over inflated).

Clearly a full remap which also increases boost can give big gains and on some engines simply increasing fueling can do similar because the engines run with a large percentage of excess air which improves throttle response (no need to spool the turbo up fast when acceleration demand is input).

A big issue on a number of vehilces with the tuning is the drive train, many of the boxes fited to the pwoer plants are run close to the max torque so a very negative impact can be seen here! (as an example, the M32 used on many of the 1.9 CDTi's needs an oil cooler fitting to make it last with increased torque as it runs dam hot in standard tune and the oil degrades quickly resulting in bearing failure).

Easiest way to spot a regen is to watch the fuel consumption, it drops by circa 20 mpg and often there is a drone that can be heard from the rear silencer (dependent on body shape etc with obviously an estate car being less sound deadened in that area than say a saloon or hatch), they are often more sprightly to with a snappier throttle response (althoguh this is only noticed if you apply throttle, when cruising or on cruise control it can easily go unspotted)
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #31 on: 06 January 2014, 09:38:14 »

Quote
Not sure about the 3.0 CDTi Al regarding tech 2 disable, it can certainly be deleted by other means though.
That is reassuring  :y

My typical day involves a twenty minute, eleven mile commute, quite often in traffic, followed by 10-20 urban journeys of two or three miles, again all in traffic. If I do go any further than the outskirts of Horsham, then I do see dual carriageways, but littered with roundabouts and traffic lights. I suspect that the ecu would start a regen cycle after a minute of dual carriageway, only for me to need to stop at a roundabout  ::)

I have spent time driving a brand new hybrid 7.5t, which killed its dpf in about 6 weeks, inspite of regular motorway work :-\
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #32 on: 06 January 2014, 09:41:05 »

Quote
Not sure about the 3.0 CDTi Al regarding tech 2 disable, it can certainly be deleted by other means though.
That is reassuring  :y

My typical day involves a twenty minute, eleven mile commute, quite often in traffic, followed by 10-20 urban journeys of two or three miles, again all in traffic. If I do go any further than the outskirts of Horsham, then I do see dual carriageways, but littered with roundabouts and traffic lights. I suspect that the ecu would start a regen cycle after a minute of dual carriageway, only for me to need to stop at a roundabout  ::)

I have spent time driving a brand new hybrid 7.5t, which killed its dpf in about 6 weeks, inspite of regular motorway work :-\

Its useful to be aware that there are times that the regen will be inhibited such as when a fault is present or if the engine is not upto temperature (so a failed thermostat will stop it and may not give a fault light.....).

Of course a condition where combustion is compromised and the exhaust smoke increases will also shorten the time requried between regenerations such as a partialy stuck open EGR valve or failing/leaky/fouled injectors.
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I_want_an_Omega

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #33 on: 06 January 2014, 09:57:24 »

I can't help wonder why manufacturers appear to struggle with the basic tune?

Chipping remapping or retuning a diesel appears to see good improvements on all front's afaict. Better power output is the first obvious one. But also better economy as well, with less smoke.
My understanding is the black smoke is caused by Unburnt fuel, so what's the difficulty about tuning a diesel that means its easier to fit a Dpf than tune the engine to give less smoke or a cleaner burn?

I'm missing something clearly. No pun intended. ;D


Apart from waisting fuel, why can't the Dpf set its own throttle at 2000rpm while the car is on the drive? Do its regen, then let the driver in his way?
Edit, actually, that wouldn't be very fool proof. ;D

Manufacturers have considerably more constraints than the tuning companies, not least they have to meet the full EC specs which gives the compromised tunes where as once built and type approved, an MOT smoke test is the only real check the engine will ever see from that point on (and the new visual inspection of emmission control components).

The economy gains on modern diesels are some what over stated, tuning boxes as an example may appear form the TC (trip computer) to give better economy but any improvements are negligable (the tuning boxes modify the rail pressure signal to the ECU making it think it needs a longer duration of injection so more fuel is dumped in but, the TC uses the duration v pressure to calculate economy so the TC figures become over inflated).

Clearly a full remap which also increases boost can give big gains and on some engines simply increasing fueling can do similar because the engines run with a large percentage of excess air which improves throttle response (no need to spool the turbo up fast when acceleration demand is input).

A big issue on a number of vehilces with the tuning is the drive train, many of the boxes fited to the pwoer plants are run close to the max torque so a very negative impact can be seen here! (as an example, the M32 used on many of the 1.9 CDTi's needs an oil cooler fitting to make it last with increased torque as it runs dam hot in standard tune and the oil degrades quickly resulting in bearing failure).

Easiest way to spot a regen is to watch the fuel consumption, it drops by circa 20 mpg and often there is a drone that can be heard from the rear silencer (dependent on body shape etc with obviously an estate car being less sound deadened in that area than say a saloon or hatch), they are often more sprightly to with a snappier throttle response (althoguh this is only noticed if you apply throttle, when cruising or on cruise control it can easily go unspotted)

Ok, so if you set off on a journey and are soon on a fast road doing a constant 65 or 70, listening to the radio in a quiet car then it's possible that you will miss it unless you are constantly watching the instantaneous MPG. As I said, I failed to notice anything in 2 years and 60k miles so it must be a fairly subdued event ..........
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #34 on: 07 January 2014, 17:41:55 »

I've been wondering about some sort of DIY fix for these DPF filters along the lines of cleaning them out when they get clogged.  :-\

When I was a yoof and was whizzing about on a 2 stroke 50cc 'bumblebee', we were always whipping out the baffles from the exhaust to burn off the oily crud that accumulated with a blowtorch, bit of a wash in petrol and a scrub with a wire brush to maintain that blistering performance!!  8)  ;)

So how about doing something similar with a clogged DPF filter?  ???  Could it be washed out with petrol or similar solvent?  Maybe heated up somehow to burn the crud out?  :-\
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #35 on: 07 January 2014, 18:48:57 »

I am sure my naff code reader will activate a dpf regeneration cycle with the car on the drive. On brothers signum anyway. We didn't run it as his is fine right now, we were turning off the passenger seat belt warning and I remember seeing the option for the dpf. It had plenty warnings about the noise and heat generated. As far as I know the ECU will initiate a regeneration when needed as long as the car is in the right condition, as others have said, up to temp, no faults etc but I am sure the  problem comes from the fact most need to have the revs above 2000, which many modern diesels only achieve if you cruise quite quickly.
Al
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Nick W

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #36 on: 07 January 2014, 20:36:47 »

It's not unusual for a light to come on whilst the DPF is regenerating. Many people see this as a 'management fault' and have been programmed to turn the the car off as soon as they see it. This is, unfortunately, precisely the opposite of what is needed.
The real problem is that the very cars that should give the most effect from a DPF, the low mileage short trips in town,  are also the ones that don't get the regen and suffer the problems.
It's a badly thought out, poorly implemented 'solution' that smacks of politicians getting involved in problems they know nothing about. No surprise there!
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andyc

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #37 on: 07 January 2014, 23:03:51 »

We now use a two stage cleaner that injected into the DPF itself, call it snake oil if you want but on every vehicle we have had in with a blocked DPF this stuff has cleaned it

The cost is around £250 but up againist price of replacing a DPF thats not as bad

Andy
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twiglet

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #38 on: 07 January 2014, 23:23:05 »

I have completely disabled the DPF on my 1.9 CDTi Vectra.  You can't do it with a tech2.  The ECU need to be reprogrammed.  I was able to core out the ceramic innards of the DPF with the need to cut into the casing.  I did the pre-cat while I was at it.  I also blanked of the EGR and EGR cooler. then disabled the ECU control and monitoring of the DPF, EGR and swirl flaps, as well as remapping it and backing off the smoke limiter.

The result... A big estate car that will leave a 3.2 V6 Omega in it's wake, while returning 45mpg average on a 12 mile spirited commute (3mpg) better than standard.  And no issues at all with the MOT last month.   ;D
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chrisgixer

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #39 on: 07 January 2014, 23:26:22 »

That's that sorted then Twig. NEEXT ;D

Any idea in total output?
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #40 on: 08 January 2014, 01:15:48 »

I have completely disabled the DPF on my 1.9 CDTi Vectra.  You can't do it with a tech2.  The ECU need to be reprogrammed.  I was able to core out the ceramic innards of the DPF with the need to cut into the casing.  I did the pre-cat while I was at it.  I also blanked of the EGR and EGR cooler. then disabled the ECU control and monitoring of the DPF, EGR and swirl flaps, as well as remapping it and backing off the smoke limiter.

The result... A big estate car that will leave a 3.2 V6 Omega in it's wake, while returning 45mpg average on a 12 mile spirited commute (3mpg) better than standard.  And no issues at all with the MOT last month.   ;D
If that list will work (where applicable) on the V6, then it may still be a contender... :-\
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #41 on: 08 January 2014, 08:05:26 »

You can delete the DPF with Tech 2 (fulle reset of ECU and then reconfigure from scratch) on the 1.9 CDTi, you cant disable the EGR though sadly. Similarly, if yoy had to replace the ECU then you cna program a virigin unit without DPF.

For cleaning, if you can remove it than a long soak in casutic soda plus a reverse flush does work enough to allow the car to then do a regen.

And yes, a reasonable scan tool will allow initiation the static DPF regen (although this should be avoided if possible due to the fact it only achieves a partial regen and also risks diesel dilution of the oil) 
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twiglet

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #42 on: 08 January 2014, 08:43:55 »

That's that sorted then Twig. NEEXT ;D

Any idea in total output?

Not had it dyno'd yet Chris, although other cars with the same mods are seeing close to 200bhp.  It's the torque that impresses though.  She wants to torque steer in 2nd and 3rd on full boost!  Not bad for a repmobile hey :D

I'm currently looking at hybrid turbo and FMIC options for even more whooshy whooshy...  :y
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maracus

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #43 on: 08 January 2014, 13:57:11 »

Are these 1.9's essentially the same lump as what saab use in the TTID engines? If so, could you use the twin turbos off one of those for more oomph??
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #44 on: 08 January 2014, 18:59:46 »

You can delete the DPF with Tech 2 (fulle reset of ECU and then reconfigure from scratch) on the 1.9 CDTi, you cant disable the EGR though sadly. Similarly, if yoy had to replace the ECU then you cna program a virigin unit without DPF.

For cleaning, if you can remove it than a long soak in casutic soda plus a reverse flush does work enough to allow the car to then do a regen.

And yes, a reasonable scan tool will allow initiation the static DPF regen (although this should be avoided if possible due to the fact it only achieves a partial regen and also risks diesel dilution of the oil)
[/highlight]

Agree about the risk of washing diesel into the oil and it not being a full regen, as the longer you run it the more risk contaminating the oil. However if you are in the position of have dpf lights on a run through the program and an oil change to get it running to the point you can let it regenerate itself while driving may well be a worthwhile and cheaper option.
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Taxi_Driver

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #45 on: 09 January 2014, 08:01:12 »

I can't help wonder why manufacturers appear to struggle with the basic tune?

Chipping remapping or retuning a diesel appears to see good improvements on all front's afaict. Better power output is the first obvious one. But also better economy as well, with less smoke.
My understanding is the black smoke is caused by Unburnt fuel, so what's the difficulty about tuning a diesel that means its easier to fit a Dpf than tune the engine to give less smoke or a cleaner burn?

I'm missing something clearly. No pun intended. ;D


Apart from waisting fuel, why can't the Dpf set its own throttle at 2000rpm while the car is on the drive? Do its regen, then let the driver in his way?
Edit, actually, that wouldn't be very fool proof. ;D

Manufacturers have considerably more constraints than the tuning companies, not least they have to meet the full EC specs which gives the compromised tunes where as once built and type approved, an MOT smoke test is the only real check the engine will ever see from that point on (and the new visual inspection of emmission control components).

The economy gains on modern diesels are some what over stated, tuning boxes as an example may appear form the TC (trip computer) to give better economy but any improvements are negligable (the tuning boxes modify the rail pressure signal to the ECU making it think it needs a longer duration of injection so more fuel is dumped in but, the TC uses the duration v pressure to calculate economy so the TC figures become over inflated).

Clearly a full remap which also increases boost can give big gains and on some engines simply increasing fueling can do similar because the engines run with a large percentage of excess air which improves throttle response (no need to spool the turbo up fast when acceleration demand is input).

A big issue on a number of vehilces with the tuning is the drive train, many of the boxes fited to the pwoer plants are run close to the max torque so a very negative impact can be seen here! (as an example, the M32 used on many of the 1.9 CDTi's needs an oil cooler fitting to make it last with increased torque as it runs dam hot in standard tune and the oil degrades quickly resulting in bearing failure).

Easiest way to spot a regen is to watch the fuel consumption, it drops by circa 20 mpg and often there is a drone that can be heard from the rear silencer (dependent on body shape etc with obviously an estate car being less sound deadened in that area than say a saloon or hatch), they are often more sprightly to with a snappier throttle response (althoguh this is only noticed if you apply throttle, when cruising or on cruise control it can easily go unspotted)

They also stink, well my passat does, of rotten eggs, when its doing a regen, tho only noticed if you are stationary and get out and walk around to the back with the engine idling.
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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #46 on: 14 January 2014, 21:16:11 »

This article on Honest John's website is interesting.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/diesel-particulate-filters/
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MR MISTER

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #47 on: 14 January 2014, 21:26:58 »

This article on Honest John's website is interesting.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/diesel-particulate-filters/
Whoa. That would be gobbledygook to most people. This is a real problem by the sounds of things.
There was a piece from Sheffield on Telly tonight. The university bods were measuring traffic pollution in the city centre and said that, even though particulates were being trapped by filters, diesel engines still emitted far more noxious gases than petrols.
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05omegav6

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Re: DPF removal Q...
« Reply #48 on: 14 January 2014, 21:27:51 »

Petrol it is then :-\
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