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[Dishevelled Den]

Very bad news indeed Liam   I would go with Capt. Zok's suggestion, you really should find out just what has bitten you on the bum

[TestOmega]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Meggy has committed suicide - why would she do this??

Was cruising down to London when the wife noticed a funny sound (she's pretty good at noticing odd sounds/smells/sights before major failures ). Open the windows and wow! Nasty scraping metal sound totally rev related so definately the engine, but still running fine. Parked asap figuring bearing of some auxiliary belt item self destructing. Just decided to keep it running to have a little look/listen to identify the cause. Noise was deafening but couldn't see anything amiss. As soon as it occured to me 'oh sh*t it could be the cambelt tensioner - switch off NOW' the noise got briefly worse and the engine stopped .

Had to be the cambelt I thought - it's just gone over 40,000 and was top of list of things to do, but given that vaux thought they could get away with 80,000 for a while I didn't think I was sailing that close to the wind, but was cursing my stupidity all the same. Got recovered home and started to survey the damage.

First thing I noticed was that the belt was intact but fairly slack around the cam pulleys and a nice covering of fine metal shavings everywhere which wasn't quite what I was expecting...



Belt tensioners and idlers all seem fine - not loose at all. Then I notice this...



Yup - those pulley are touching!! That's the source of the shavings...



So what in the name of greek bu**ery can cause that to happen??!!  The camshaft must literally have eaten it's bearings and moved over 5mm or so! How could that possibly happen?? Never run it low on oil, though that bank does have a bit of a gasket leak which was also on the list of things to do. Never seen anything like it in my life - anyone else??

Totally gutted - love the car and just treated it to new lemforder wishbones and new rear springs . 98 Elite and only done 125,000. Weighing up my options now - repair, engine swap, break, or sell/scrap in one piece. Couple of years ago I'd have jumped straight into the repair, but freshly married and renovating a house I have very little spare time right now. What does anyone else think - worth the work, or maybe the Omega dream is over

Oh well - just wanted to share the misery. Sympathy and e-pats on back please! Maybe there'll be a project or breaker for sale on here soon (though I probably dont have enough posts for that do I - sigh).

Liam

Sorry to hear but I see less than disastrous situation.

From the picture at least it appears that cam teeth were grinding but you may not have necessarily any bent valves, etc., or a crashed head.  May be just replacement of both the damaged cams or that head if it is likely cheaper.  If the belt slipped which the way it appears seated it may not have with the tensioner saving your engine.

I am a newbie but been reading a lot so may be it is the rosiest of all observations and perhaps unrealistic.

Good luck.

PS:  Meggy has attempted suicide - why would she do this?? Cry Cry Cry

[Liam]

Hmmm an interesting positive spin . If you look at the pulleys on my photo you can see the timing marks are not where they should be - so good chance that side contains bent valves. As an engineer with a good degree of mechanical sympathy, the noise when it stopped made me wince . I think it's not gonna be pretty. You're right though there's a good chance the other bank is OK. Will turn it over by hand and see if things line up.

Anyone got a head lying around?

[Teebee]

I'm with the other guys, strip it and check the head(s), all it's costing is time.

[markspark]

Elite Pete is breaking one maybe the heads are up for grabs worth askin him, the car did have engine problems but not sure what they was

[Andy B]

Elite Pete is breaking one maybe the heads are up for grabs worth askin him, the car did have engine problems but not sure what they was

Good idea, Pete had bottom end problems ........ on his car     

[TestOmega]

Hmmm an interesting positive spin . If you look at the pulleys on my photo you can see the timing marks are not where they should be - so good chance that side contains bent valves. As an engineer with a good degree of mechanical sympathy, the noise when it stopped made me wince . I think it's not gonna be pretty. You're right though there's a good chance the other bank is OK. Will turn it over by hand and see if things line up.

Anyone got a head lying around?

I was just looking at the condition of the pulley teeth and the timing belt.  Is there also scraped rubber residue, to indicate belt slipping?

You certainly more qualified in this case, I am Electrical Engineer myself?

Cheers and I still kind of think glass is half full.

[Liam]

Deary me! Turns out the pulley on the exhaust cam had come loose. Done up in the factory as far as I'm aware - certainly never had it off myself, so rather annoying it decided to undo itself . Shaft itself looks fine and nicely oiled.

If only if only if only I'd shut it down before it killed itself - i'd probably be looking at doing up the pulley and jobs a goodun. But right at the end the pulleys must have meshed a bit and locked up or something. Crank has then run on, mashed the belt and probably most of the valves both sides .

Camshafts look there or thereabouts compared to the notches on the rear cover, but the crank which, if I'm not mistaken, should have the line on the pulley pointing downwards, is actually more like 1-2 o'clock. So could have run on more than 180 degrees. That's a few bent valves is it?  When I try to turn the engine over by hand carefully I meet solid resistance. I also dug out a nice strip of about 6 belt teeth that have been spat out by the crank pulley .

So scrapper or head swap I guess. Can the heads be done in the car? Looks pretty tight getting the NS head off as it's so far back. Would need gasket set I guess - anyone know how much? Oh and some heads. What else? Can you reuse the bolts? This will be the furthest I've delved in before. That's if it's worth doing at all - hmmmmmm.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Eaten its bearings, thats hilarious!

What work has it had done in the past....cams out at any point?

[mrjimbo]

"Eaten its bearings, thats hilarious!"

If the cam has run dry due to oil starvation the bearing blocs in the head can become worn and go oval and the tension on the belt would pull the cams closer together.

I only suggested this as the front cover was already off and it would be easy enough to have a tug about on the cam wheels just to check as i have seen the same sort of damage caused to Cosworth YB engines due to oil starvation.

In future i will keep my thoughts to myself and leave the technical diagnosis to people who are clearly more qualified as i obviously know Jack Schmitt !!!

[Liam]

Well I'm talking myself into swapping the heads as Elite Pete has some going spare. Engine with bottom end problems + engine with top end problems = 1 perfect engine, right? . His doesn't have camshafts, but since mine seem fine I guess I'd just transfer them over. Would you want to transfer the bearing shells over too so my shafts have their old bearings - this is further than I've delved into an engine before so dont know exactly the best practices. Thing I'll have to change some followers too as Pete says some of his are dodgy. Do I then have to worry about valve lift and clearances and stuff like that I've heard of but never had owt to do with, or is this engine all auto adjusting hydraulic lifters?

Anyone got a cam locking kit for hire/lending? What's the best place for head gaskets and how much? And do I need new head bolts?

Cheers,

Liam

[maximoke]

Not sure if I'm seeing things, but Cam No3 looks as if the large washer on the sprocket is not central with its bolt, I'm sure that would make the sprocket run on an eccentric causing the rubbing.  Still could just be my eyes, but No4 is not like it.

[RobG]

Well I'm talking myself into swapping the heads as Elite Pete has some going spare. Engine with bottom end problems + engine with top end problems = 1 perfect engine, right? . His doesn't have camshafts, but since mine seem fine I guess I'd just transfer them over. Would you want to transfer the bearing shells over too so my shafts have their old bearings - this is further than I've delved into an engine before so dont know exactly the best practices. Thing I'll have to change some followers too as Pete says some of his are dodgy. Do I then have to worry about valve lift and clearances and stuff like that I've heard of but never had owt to do with, or is this engine all auto adjusting hydraulic lifters?

Anyone got a cam locking kit for hire/lending? What's the best place for head gaskets and how much? And do I need new head bolts?

Cheers,

Liam

Nope. Cam bearings are line bored and are unique to the head/s

[Dishevelled Den]

Well I'm talking myself into swapping the heads as Elite Pete has some going spare. Engine with bottom end problems + engine with top end problems = 1 perfect engine, right? . His doesn't have camshafts, but since mine seem fine I guess I'd just transfer them over. Would you want to transfer the bearing shells over too so my shafts have their old bearings - this is further than I've delved into an engine before so dont know exactly the best practices. Thing I'll have to change some followers too as Pete says some of his are dodgy. Do I then have to worry about valve lift and clearances and stuff like that I've heard of but never had owt to do with, or is this engine all auto adjusting hydraulic lifters?

Anyone got a cam locking kit for hire/lending? What's the best place for head gaskets and how much? And do I need new head bolts?

Cheers,

Liam

Well I'm talking myself into swapping the heads

That's the way to do it Liam 8-)  This has the makings of a very interesting thread

[Martin_1962]

Use genuine exhaust gaskets.

To make things fun - I had a cam pulley slip and the cam went through 180 degrees.

No valve damage