Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 January 2019, 17:00:48
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
Whaddya think?
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No deal has apparently been the Apocalypse and Armageddon all rolled into one since before Brexit became a thing ;D
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
Indeed.
I see TM has said that in the event of "No Deal" we will instead stay in the EU.
So I think we all know what's going to happen.
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
Perhaps Shami could console you if the worst comes to the worst. :)
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
She certainly has more of a chance this time, Opti. If I thought the end game was a no deal, I would hope to see her deal voted down. But, if there's a chance of a further referendum or a Corbyn government, I would prefer it to pass.
It's such a watered down version of brexit, that we might even be better just cancelling Art 50 and staying as we were. Better that than a half arsed brexit where we are 'out' but subservient.
Things really shouldn't be 'up in the air' at this stage of the game, but the Tories have been taking chunks out of each other for decades over Europe, so it was never going to be simple.
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
She certainly has more of a chance this time, Opti. If I thought the end game was a no deal, I would hope to see her deal voted down. But, if there's a chance of a further referendum or a Corbyn government, I would prefer it to pass.
It's such a watered down version of brexit, that we might even be better just cancelling Art 50 and staying as we were. Better that than a half arsed brexit where we are 'out' but subservient.
Things really shouldn't be 'up in the air' at this stage of the game, but the Tories have been taking chunks out of each other for decades over Europe, so it was never going to be simple.
If she does pull a rabbit from the hat no doubt she be seen on every TV news channel saying 'brexit means brexit' and she has delivered the Brexit that the British people voted for.........which of course is boll**ocks.
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
She certainly has more of a chance this time, Opti. If I thought the end game was a no deal, I would hope to see her deal voted down. But, if there's a chance of a further referendum or a Corbyn government, I would prefer it to pass.
It's such a watered down version of brexit, that we might even be better just cancelling Art 50 and staying as we were. Better that than a half arsed brexit where we are 'out' but subservient.
Things really shouldn't be 'up in the air' at this stage of the game, but the Tories have been taking chunks out of each other for decades over Europe, so it was never going to be simple.
If she does pull a rabbit from the hat no doubt she be seen on every TV news channel saying 'brexit means brexit' and she has delivered the Brexit that the British people voted for.........which of course is boll**ocks.
A fair percentage of the people that she cannot satisfy wanted all the foreign Johnnies to be rounded up onto the Herald of Free Enterprise Pride of Folkestone, then taken out into the Channel and sunk ::)
Compromise is all about being disappointed ;)
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If she does pull a rabbit from the hat no doubt she be seen on every TV news channel saying 'brexit means brexit' and she has delivered the Brexit that the British people voted for.........which of course is boll**ocks.
TV is very last century m'lud. I'm given to understand that the modern method of communicating a steaming pile of total cr@p to the general populous involves a 3" brush, some paint and the side of a clapham omnibus... ;D
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
Perhaps Shami could console you if the worst comes to the worst. :)
I would indeed get some consolation with putting something in her...
...a bullet.
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There'll be a lot of hot air expended tomorrow and, no doubt, we will hear everything from 'things will turn out fine' to 'a plague of boils and locusts'.
At least we will be past the vote, whichever way it goes.
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There'll be a lot of hot air expended tomorrow and, no doubt, we will hear everything from 'things will turn out fine' to 'a plague of boils and locusts'.
At least we will be past the vote, whichever way it goes.
Agreed. I think most of the PM's 'plan' hinged on people getting so bored with brexit they'd agree to anything just to make it stop. ::)
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
Perhaps Shami could console you if the worst comes to the worst. :)
I would indeed get some consolation with putting something in her...
...a bullet.
Now look here, Jaime. A shag is a shag, and that's the end of the matter. You are allowed to use stuff to make things easier (bag over the head, ten pints of wifebeater, etc), but you are never allowed to shirk in these matters.
Wham, bam and no need for a thank you mam. ;D
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Like most, I could no longer give a shit.
Perhaps Shami could console you if the worst comes to the worst. :)
I would indeed get some consolation with putting something in her...
...a bullet.
Now look here, Jaime. A shag is a shag, and that's the end of the matter. You are allowed to use stuff to make things easier (bag over the head, ten pints of wifebeater, etc), but you are never allowed to shirk in these matters.
Wham, bam and no need for a thank you mam. ;D
Now, normally I'd agree. But it looks like a bloke, and never stops whining. I think I'd rather suffer erectile dysfunction.
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A good rogering may cure her feminism. :)
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Ah yes, the thespic equivalent of a bacon sandwich* :D
*The only known cure for veganism...
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After weighing up all the options, I have concluded, for me, there are only two options I could live with. All or nothing.....hard brexit or revoke A50. The alternatives , May's deal, general election or another referendum, would only drag the whole process over another year or so, with nothing certain at the end of it.
That's just me, of course.
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Hard Brexit wont happen if Mays Brino cant even be voted through.
What do you actually mean by revoke Article 50?
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Hard Brexit wont happen if Mays Brino cant even be voted through.
What do you actually mean by revoke Article 50?
Basically we turn round to the EU and say " We've changed our minds and are now going to stay in the EU. Sorry about that chaps! " :)
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She will lose. She should then resign, but we are through the looking glass now, and she wont.
She will hope that if she plays for time to the absolute last minute, the EU will make some concessions to stop a hard real Brexit, and its possible she may just get lucky with that. They have history on that sort of thing.
As things stand, under current law of the land we leave on the appointed date, deal or no deal.
She is utterly useless and has brought it all on herself. She trusted the EU to negotiate in good faith :o.....and at the same time tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no-one.
A middle class vicars daughter with little life experience isn't the person to negotiate with the hard nosed power crazy, anti democrats across the channel.
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Hard Brexit wont happen if Mays Brino cant even be voted through.
What do you actually mean by revoke Article 50?
Basically we turn round to the EU and say " We've changed our minds and are now going to stay in the EU. Sorry about that chaps! " :)
That is what I thought. That wont happen either. My guess is an extension of time at rhe elevenh hour following even more sky will come crashing in scaremongering. Most people are scared of the unknown. So can kicked down the road. A general election, Conservatives split into two factions and lose. JC rises from the ashes with a free hand but to do what?
A bit of expat background. Guidance has been issued to expats in Spain saying following a no deal if you were registered, that you wont be thrown out but will have to re reregister and prove you have the means to support yourself. No figure specified which is par for the course. Probably down to the individual functionaries. 31,000 euros a year has been bandied about. If it is that high half of us including me will be heading back. We will have to do the jobs the leaving EU nationals were doing! Can we live in your stable block Lord and Lady Opti!
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
Get what right?
The deal being voted on is a mere precursor to the actual event as the EU made it clear that any trade and legislative details could not and would not be discussed prior to us actually leaving.
Anything arranged/discussed/agreed at this point would be a compromise one way or tother regardless of who negotiated it. Would Boris or Maggie have obtained a better starting position for March 30th? Possibly, but it still wouldn't please everyone.
Stop heeding the media nonsense ;)
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
And on that day the devil will skate to work.....
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
And on that day the devil will skate to work.....
I think you'll find he cycles..
(https://i.ibb.co/XDSK5WS/image.png) (https://ibb.co/XDSK5WS)
;D
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;D ;D
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We were totally screwed from the day the referendum was wonn by lies and deceit. ::)
May has done the best she could get... Could Corbin or Boris the Buffoon have done any better? I seriously doubt either of them could negotiate a party in a brewery :-X
Like many, I’m fed up with the scaremongering BS and just want it over with. Revoking Article 50 will be as bad or worse than any deal/no deal Brexit as the EU will recognise that they still have the upper hand ;)
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We were totally screwed from the day the referendum was wonn by lies and deceit. ::)
May has done the best she could get... Could Corbin or Boris the Buffoon have done any better? I seriously doubt either of them could negotiate a party in a brewery :-X
Like many, I’m fed up with the scaremongering BS and just want it over with. Revoking Article 50 will be as bad or worse than any deal/no deal Brexit as the EU will recognise that they still have the upper hand ;)
Ah yes, because the Remain campaign were utterly straight with the electorate and everything that they said about the consequences of just voting to leave the EU was the truth. ;D
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We were totally screwed from the day the referendum was wonn by lies and deceit. ::)
May has done the best she could get... Could Corbin or Boris the Buffoon have done any better? I seriously doubt either of them could negotiate a party in a brewery :-X
Like many, I’m fed up with the scaremongering BS and just want it over with. Revoking Article 50 will be as bad or worse than any deal/no deal Brexit as the EU will recognise that they still have the upper hand ;)
Ah yes, because the Remain campaign were utterly straight with the electorate and everything that they said about the consequences of just voting to leave the EU was the truth. ;D
I think whichever way the referendum turned out, it would have been won with hyperbole, deceit and the odd outright lie thrown in. :y
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Very true. :y
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
And on that day the devil will skate to work.....
I think you'll find he cycles..
(https://i.ibb.co/XDSK5WS/image.png) (https://ibb.co/XDSK5WS)
;D
He always seems to be jogging or cycling on the news......... so why does he resemble a pallid shapeless out of condition dollop? :)
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Is it too late to get Boris to take over and get it right?
Ron.
And on that day the devil will skate to work.....
I think you'll find he cycles..
(https://i.ibb.co/XDSK5WS/image.png) (https://ibb.co/XDSK5WS)
;D
He always seems to be jogging or cycling or shagging on the news......... so why does he resemble a pallid shapeless out of condition dollop? :)
fixed :y
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Because he does it for show and not for fitness, that is quite evident for any decent cyclist to see. His bike is completely the wrong fit for him, anyone who cycles far and often will make sure the bike fits correctly to avoid pains, strains and muscle tiredness. As for his running style, anyone his size will get very sweaty doing a run session of any worth. He seems to amble about in front of the cameras.
His image was very well engineered for a while, however he seems to have self-imploded since leaving the cabinet which is good or bad depending on your views of Boris.
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The title of this thread is 'Big vote tomorrow' but, judging by what I'm hearing today, it might not turn out to be that big. By all accounts TM will lose but, apparently, she will try to tinker with it slightly and bring it back to the house again.......and again......and again.......
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The title of this thread is 'Big vote tomorrow' but, judging by what I'm hearing today, it might not turn out to be that big. By all accounts TM will lose but, apparently, she will try to tinker with it slightly and bring it back to the house again.......and again......and again.......
Yes.....annoying. And a big f*uck you to democracy. :)
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Because he does it for show and not for fitness, that is quite evident for any decent cyclist to see. His bike is completely the wrong fit for him, anyone who cycles far and often will make sure the bike fits correctly to avoid pains, strains and muscle tiredness. As for his running style, anyone his size will get very sweaty doing a run session of any worth. He seems to amble about in front of the cameras.
His image was very well engineered for a while, however he seems to have self-imploded since leaving the cabinet which is good or bad depending on your views of Boris.
I reckon you'd kick his flabby pale arse in a triathlon. :)
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Because he does it for show and not for fitness, that is quite evident for any decent cyclist to see. His bike is completely the wrong fit for him, anyone who cycles far and often will make sure the bike fits correctly to avoid pains, strains and muscle tiredness. As for his running style, anyone his size will get very sweaty doing a run session of any worth. He seems to amble about in front of the cameras.
His image was very well engineered for a while, however he seems to have self-imploded since leaving the cabinet which is good or bad depending on your views of Boris.
I reckon you'd kick his flabby pale arse in a triathlon. :)
Triathlon? Boris wouldn't even be able to anywhere near complete one stage. ;D
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Because he does it for show and not for fitness, that is quite evident for any decent cyclist to see. His bike is completely the wrong fit for him, anyone who cycles far and often will make sure the bike fits correctly to avoid pains, strains and muscle tiredness. As for his running style, anyone his size will get very sweaty doing a run session of any worth. He seems to amble about in front of the cameras.
His image was very well engineered for a while, however he seems to have self-imploded since leaving the cabinet which is good or bad depending on your views of Boris.
I reckon you'd kick his flabby pale arse in a triathlon. :)
After another medical incident in 2017 (my 2nd in 3 Ironman races) I have decided to give all that up. I still swim pretty well given that I was a competitive swimmer for 13 years until I was chucked out left my swimming club. My Ironman Wales swim time was 1 hour 21 mins so not too shabby, although ti would have been better without a rugby-related neck injury hampering training in the pool. I have sold my race bike as it was taking up space and never being used although I have my commuter bike and I am thinking of getting another bike suitable for long distance rides. I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
All that said, I think you are probably right ;D
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I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
https://www.slimmingworld.co.uk/ ? :P
(I still have 15Kg to go to get down to your weight, though.. and a lot less of mine is muscle ;D ;D)
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85kg's here. :D
0kg's muscle ;D
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85kg's here. :D
0kg's muscle ;D
Based on your reputation, I'm assuming you've gained about 25Kg in the last couple of years ;D
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And I thought 96kgs was on the heavy side of tall ::)
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You're all fat bastards. At 6 ft and 13 stone, my doctor reckons I'm overweight.
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That's 2 kilos lighter than Tunnie, but he is three feet taller than me. ;D
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I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
https://www.slimmingworld.co.uk/ ? :P
(I still have 15Kg to go to get down to your weight, though.. and a lot less of mine is muscle ;D ;D)
I hear weight is easier to lose than keep off for most people. Not quite sure why.
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I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
https://www.slimmingworld.co.uk/ ? :P
(I still have 15Kg to go to get down to your weight, though.. and a lot less of mine is muscle ;D ;D)
I hear weight is easier to lose than keep off for most people. Not quite sure why.
Because you say 'I've lost five stone, surely I'm entitled to one itsy bitsy cake'. ;D
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You're all fat bastards. At 6 ft and 13 stone, my doctor reckons I'm overweight.
It's usually the fattest nurse you've ever seen that tells you that ;D
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My guess is an extension of time at rhe elevenh hour
That is worse case, it would destroy the country even further than the referendum (predictably) already has.
We need it sorted on time. I don't think anyone actually cares how any more. The country cant take any more buttfocking. In, out, halfarsed both, who cares.
As for the negotiations, again, predictable. Bluff doesn't work when the other side already knows they have the best hand. Nobody could have done significantly better. If anyone genuinely believes otherwise, post me some of your drugs.
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You're all fat bastards. At 6 ft and 13 stone, my doctor reckons I'm overweight.
It's usually the fattest nurse you've ever seen that tells you that ;D
Yes! They seem to pick these 5' x 5' nurses to do that job.
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You're all fat bastards. At 6 ft and 13 stone, my doctor reckons I'm overweight.
It's usually the fattest nurse you've ever seen that tells you that ;D
Yes! They seem to pick these 5' x 5' nurses to do that job.
Reminds me of an old ditty:
She's Mrs five by five
She five foot high and she's five foot wide
She measures no more from head to toe
Than she does from side to side.
;D
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Well......that was a huge defeat. Jeremy is, at present, tearing her to bits, but has he got the balls for a motion of no confidence?
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Apparently, he has. ::)
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85kg's here. :D
0kg's muscle ;D
Based on your reputation, I'm assuming you've gained about 25Kg in the last couple of years ;D
Yeah, when I look at Uni photos, I’m a right fat b@stard now. ;D
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Its astonishing that she hasn't resigned, but she will win the confidence vote tomorrow and we will be in exactly the same position we are now.
Its not so much about Brexit anymore, but more about do we kill Democracy in the UK or not.
The backstop issue is a giant red herring by the way. There is a border in Ireland now. Buses going from Belfast to Dublin got stopped for random checks to check indentities, goods being transported etc.
After Brexit, checks can still be carried out away from the frontier to ensure no hard border.
It gives the EU huge leverage when negotiating the next phase though, due to "you might not like it, but if you don't sign up to it, we will initiate the backstop". So Theresa would cave in again, left right and centre.
A waste of skin masquerading as a leader.
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Everyone, TM, Labour, DUP, Scottish Nationalist are talking about getting together and coming to some sort of concensus about the type of deal that might get through parliament. I think they might be forgetting that the EU has said that there is no room for further negotiations. And, even if they did want to alter bits of it, it has to be voted on by all 27 members. Ficking idiots.
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A 202 to 432 vote is carried and given validity, credability and aplomb but a 17.4 milion to 16.1 million one is considered irrelevant .
Selective democracy , you gotta love it.......and get used to it too.
Fukc them.
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They all ought to have got together on this from the off to at least present some kind of united front rather than all the political points scoring they've been going in for.However be that as it may the EU were never going to "give" anything.
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I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
https://www.slimmingworld.co.uk/ ? :P
(I still have 15Kg to go to get down to your weight, though.. and a lot less of mine is muscle ;D ;D)
Admittedly i am 30% fat according to the machine at the gym. I would like to get down to 15-20% which means losing about 20kg. Not easy but not impossible either.
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A 202 to 432 vote is carried and given validity, credability and aplomb but a 17.4 milion to 16.1 million one is considered irrelevant .
Selective democracy , you gotta love it.......and get used to it too.
Fukc them.
Look at it again:
The referendum was IN or OUT. There was nothing about what happens after.
That was down to the government to arrange/negotiate/beg for.
Our elected parliament is supposed to influence the government(they're not the same thing) and approve the result.
That is how an elected democracy works. 70 million people cannot all get what they want!
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No deal is a much stronger position as it puts the onus on the EU to sort out the border details.
The CTA came up at work yesterday with the trainer saying that they had no idea what will happen... To which the reply was that we will find out on March 30th... He could only agree ;D
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A 202 to 432 vote is carried and given validity, credability and aplomb but a 17.4 milion to 16.1 million one is considered irrelevant .
Selective democracy , you gotta love it.......and get used to it too.
Fukc them.
Look at it again:
The referendum was IN or OUT. There was nothing about what happens after.
That was down to the government to arrange/negotiate/beg for.
Our elected parliament is supposed to influence the government(they're not the same thing) and approve the result.
That is how an elected democracy works. 70 million people cannot all get what they want!
Maybe you should look at it again .
The referendum result was OUT .
If you think that the end result of all the influence you speak of ( or better described as machinations ) is to get "approval " then you're deluded .
It is simply to prevent the UK's departure from the eu .
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I am also still 135kg although I am losing fat and building muscle (for the rugby of course) ::)
https://www.slimmingworld.co.uk/ ? :P
(I still have 15Kg to go to get down to your weight, though.. and a lot less of mine is muscle ;D ;D)
Admittedly i am 30% fat according to the machine at the gym. I would like to get down to 15-20% which means losing about 20kg. Not easy but not impossible either.
You're not wrong there.. I was doing alright up until the middle of last year when work started sending me away more!
(https://i.ibb.co/j3sDYBy/Screenshot-2019-01-16-08-54-49.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(This is far more interesting to me than Brexit ;D though a friend has predicted there will be a JC led majority government by the middle of Feb .. I can only hope he's wrong!)
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I think that those MPs that voted against the deal and who represent constituencies that voted to leave shoud probably start updating their CVs before the next election.
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Everyone, TM, Labour, DUP, Scottish Nationalist are talking about getting together and coming to some sort of concensus about the type of deal that might get through parliament. I think they might be forgetting that the EU has said that there is no room for further negotiations. And, even if they did want to alter bits of it, it has to be voted on by all 27 members. Ficking idiots.
Herding cats would be more simple. :)
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I have a sneaking suspicion Theresa will get this 'watery Brino' through parliament.
I'm wondering if some MP's are starting to lose their nerve with all this talk of 'No Deal being the end of the world'.
Should be interesting. :)
I may have got this wrong..... ;D
Still, being wrong for the first time since 1974 is not a bad record. ;D
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I think that those MPs that voted against the deal and who represent constituencies that voted to leave shoud probably start updating their CVs before the next election.
Updating their CVs? I think they might need to be trying to convince the local councils to lower the streetlights to below neck height once the "yellow jacket" brigade get going. :-\
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I just watched that odious squeek varadkar on sky threatening that peace was in the balance again if a hard Brexit occurs .
I said before that when the irish realise that they are all but insignificant in this process and start to hurt due to the loss of their 37% of total exports to UK , it'll reinstate my belief in Karma.
I have a neighbour that I grant wayleave to to allow him to drive over my land to his . I cannot deny or withdraw that access but I can make it very uncomfortable for a long period of time if I chose to , and when the previous incumbent tried to grab 3 x 150m of my land some time ago he enjoyed 5 years of misery due to continual drainage work ,tree felling,planting,maintenance , hedge trimming and unfortunate vehicle breakdowns on the driveway .
I'd never upset people whose land I have to cross to go about my daily business .......
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I just watched that odious squeek varadkar on sky threatening that peace was in the balance again if a hard Brexit occurs .
I said before that when the irish realise that they are all but insignificant in this process and start to hurt due to the loss of their 37% of total exports to UK , it'll reinstate my belief in Karma.
I have a neighbour that I grant wayleave to to allow him to drive over my land to his . I cannot deny or withdraw that access but I can make it very uncomfortable for a long period of time if I chose to , and when the previous incumbent tried to grab 3 x 150m of my land some time ago he enjoyed 5 years of misery due to continual drainage work ,tree felling,planting,maintenance , hedge trimming and unfortunate vehicle breakdowns on the driveway .
I'd never upset people whose land I have to cross to go about my daily business .......
BUILD THE WALL!
And make Ireland pay for it!
(I may have stolen this from someone else, but their name escapes me)
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Once upon a time, in Mexico... ;D
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Another thing the Füčkwits in parliament don't seem to understand is that the Eu cannot possibly make it any easier for us, because the likes of Italy and Greece would see it as a green light to threaten to leave the project.
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Just listening to Jeremy Whine on R2 where he gave a journo from the Guardian about 5 minutes to pontificate. ::)
Despite HMRC and the French authorities categorically stating that they won't implement any extra checks at Dover or Calais in the event of a no deal exit, he still spouted all the crap about shortages of food and medicines. Jeremy Whine didn't challenge him. >:(
Next up Katya Adler talking about the Irish border and the backstop. Despite the UK government, the Irish government and the EU Commission saying that a hard border will not be erected in any circumstances, she was allowed to trot out all the crap about disruption that a hard border will cause and raised the issue of potential violence. ::)
She also brought up EU concerns about smuggling and a porous border. Like that dosn't happen already with different taxes and currencies, and I wondered how non-porous the borders between Serbia or Ukraine are like with their EU neighbours? ::)
So the establishment is in full on propaganda mode today and I thought about phoning in but I doubt I'd get past the researcher filtering out pro Brexit views! ;D
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Just listening to Jeremy Whine on R2 where he gave a journo from the Guardian about 5 minutes to pontificate. ::)
Despite HMRC and the French authorities categorically stating that they won't implement any extra checks at Dover or Calais in the event of a no deal exit, he still spouted all the crap about shortages of food and medicines. Jeremy Whine didn't challenge him. >:(
Next up Katya Adler talking about the Irish border and the backstop. Despite the UK government, the Irish government and the EU Commission saying that a hard border will not be erected in any circumstances, she was allowed to trot out all the crap about disruption that a hard border will cause and raised the issue of potential violence. ::)
She also brought up EU concerns about smuggling and a porous border. Like that dosn't happen already with different taxes and currencies, and I wondered how non-porous the borders between Serbia or Ukraine are like with their EU neighbours? ::)
So the establishment is in full on propaganda mode today and I thought about phoning in but I doubt I'd get past the researcher filtering out pro Brexit views! ;D
Fire off a stiff letter to The Times, and sign it 'Disgruntled of Darzet'. ;D
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I really don't think there will be any Brexit - it's just been two years of showboating and posturing..
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I really don't think there will be any Brexit - it's just been two years of showboating and posturing..
Probably right.......it's been worth the effort though. ::) ::) ::)
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Yes but what a nice "jolly" for all involved lovely hotels & expenses claims and haven't they worked so hard for us .
😀😁😂
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I just watched that odious squeek varadkar on sky threatening that peace was in the balance again if a hard Brexit occurs .
I said before that when the irish realise that they are all but insignificant in this process and start to hurt due to the loss of their 37% of total exports to UK , it'll reinstate my belief in Karma.
I have a neighbour that I grant wayleave to to allow him to drive over my land to his . I cannot deny or withdraw that access but I can make it very uncomfortable for a long period of time if I chose to , and when the previous incumbent tried to grab 3 x 150m of my land some time ago he enjoyed 5 years of misery due to continual drainage work ,tree felling,planting,maintenance , hedge trimming and unfortunate vehicle breakdowns on the driveway .
I'd never upset people whose land I have to cross to go about my daily business .......
I cannot begin to describe how angry that makes me. It is beyond sick. I lived through it and saw it up close and personal. For a politician to use it in the way he does makes my skin crawl.
Whatever happens at the end of this, I will actively boycott ROI goods and intend to never go near the place again.
Makes far call difference to anyone but me, but It will make me feel a little better.
STEMO is right. Build a wall. ROI is a hostile country, always has been, always will be.
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I really don't think there will be any Brexit - it's just been two years of showboating and posturing..
Probably right.......it's been worth the effort though. ::) ::) ::)
As a real world 2 year demonstration of what happens when our government has the opportunity to "Take back Control" it's certainly been... Instructive.
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I really don't think there will be any Brexit - it's just been two years of showboating and posturing..
Probably right.......it's been worth the effort though. ::) ::) ::)
As a real world 2 year demonstration of what happens when our government has the opportunity to "Take back Control" it's certainly been... Instructive.
Like giving a vegan a steak - they didn't know what to do with it, and have thrown it away..
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General concessus amongst the ex forces bods at work is that Corbyn will find himself 'slotted' should he ever find himself anywhere near becoming PM... So there is some hope ;)
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Corbyn will be 72 at the next election, there's a good chance he could peg it without the need for 'slotting'. ;D
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Corbyn will be 72 at the next election, there's a good chance he could peg it without the need for 'slotting'. ;D
No need to take chances :D
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Corbyn will be 72 at the next election, there's a good chance he could peg it without the need for 'slotting'. ;D
.....and I'm sure you'll be extremely sad when his toes curl up. :)
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Maybe you should look at it again .
The referendum result was OUT .
If you think that the end result of all the influence you speak of ( or better described as machinations ) is to get "approval " then you're deluded .
It is simply to prevent the UK's departure from the eu .
I've no delusions:
The referendum was In or Out. There was nothing to vote on for how either of those things were to be accomplished. That there should have been is something that we, as an electorate, should have insisted upon before allowing the government to hold a referendum
The three governments(Cameron's, May's and post-election May) had to get what they could from the EU(who held all the cards) whilst attempting to satisfy all the various Leave requirements - who were never an organised campaign. Each government made their work harder by reducing their support within the Conservative party.
Parliament has repeatedly and consistently made clear that all of the touted deals were utterly unsatisfactory for everybody. That is what a representative parliament is for.
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General concessus amongst the ex forces bods at work is that Corbyn will find himself 'slotted' should he ever find himself anywhere near becoming PM... So there is some hope ;)
Assassinating any head of government always ends well.....
Doing it to your own is spectacularly stupid.
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I believe you have got this fundamentally wrong Nick. Parliament gave the people the power to take the decision whther to leave or remain. The people decided to leave. No if, buts or conditions.
Parliament then voted on and enacted legislation to invoke article 50, and leave on 29th March this year. No ifs, no buts, no conditions.
Most of them did this because their constituents voted for it, not because they believed in it.
Ken Clark was the only Tory to vote against the withdrawal act, so he is the only one who has any kind of right to take the stance he has taken.
But the point is, when they gave the decision to the people, and enacted legislation on the result of that, they effectively suspended the representative element of Parliament in this matter.
The situation is (and was always understood by most people imo) that the Govt gets some kind of deal. If that deal isn't acceptable, then we leave regardless.
Once the dust had settled, those who don't actually believe in the right of the people to take the decision, or even the legislation they voted to enact, started making mischief, muddying the water, frustrating the process, hoping to cause so much confusion theat the whole thing will die a death.
It might happen, but if it does, whats left of our democracy dies with it.
That is why I believe that if they make us vote again, everyone who believes in democracy, whether a leaver or remainer in the first vote, must vote for leave, to keep our democracy alive.
Im gladdened to know that several diehard remainers of my acquaintance completely agree with me.
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That is why I believe that if they make us vote again, everyone who believes in democracy, whether a leaver or remainer in the first vote, must vote for leave, to keep our democracy alive.
There shouldn't be another vote (no matter how cocked up the original was). But if there is, it should not include option to remain - the leave/remain vote has already happened... ...so I've managed to change my mind whilst typing this into another referendum with:
Leave with Chequeresque (with mods, obviously) deal
Hard exit.
On the off chance that another deal comes along in the next few days - highly unlikely - include that.
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It's going to be hard to avoid bitterness and recriminations no matter what the final outcome, Albs. It is now far too late to get the kind of deal that pleases anyone.
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The crass ridicule meted out by micron and barnier on sky TV this morning was astounding.
" We know what the UK doesn't want ,but not what it does want..."
Well here's a clue , everything you said Nein or Non to.
Yes they're not looking so smug this morning are they? ::)
And I bet your mates down the local aint so cock a hoop either! ;D
I think that those MPs that voted against the deal and who represent constituencies that voted to leave shoud probably start updating their CVs before the next election.
Not at all as no sane Lever wants May's BRINO which locks us into the EU forever through the NI backstop until we are forced to join the EUSSR in the 2028-30 timescale as planned by May and her grey suits, who see this as an opportunity to lock us into the EU forever with no escape without breaking this International Treaty. The Conservative women's website describes it here in detail. https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/has-may-been-plotting-a-return-to-the-eu-all-along/ (https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/has-may-been-plotting-a-return-to-the-eu-all-along/) May's consistently giving the EU far more than they were asking for then starts to make perfect sense. This is probably why May's plan B ,C,D,E,,,,Z will basically be the same, where she will try to wear MPs down and get her deal. The elephant in the room is that we leave with No Deal on the 29th of March, unless this is passed before then and that date can't be changed without a law superseding it, which is a lengthy process, so there is probably not enough time as it would take a minimum of 40 Commons/Lords sitting days. Commons Motions cannot change this where statutes take precedence.
Karma is that the default No Deal and the leaving date were written into this law as a result of amendments made due to Gina Millers' Supreme Court victory. Thankyou Gina where you have made proper leaving much easier and more likely. :y ;D
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I believe you have got this fundamentally wrong Nick. Parliament gave the people the power to take the decision whther to leave or remain. The people decided to leave. No if, buts or conditions.
Nope. Parliament only asked for the opinion of the people. It gave no power to the people. Parliament remained and remains sovereign. Parliament does not have to 'respect the will of the people'.
But the point is, when they gave the decision to the people, and enacted legislation on the result of that, they effectively suspended the representative element of Parliament in this matter.
Again no. The referendum was non binding on Parliament, and there is no constitutuional mechanism for Parliament to bind or suspend itself or a future parliament in any matter. Parliament can (and regularly does) amend or repeal any legislation that has already been passed. Doesn't matter if that legislation was enacted last week or hundreds of years ago.
It might happen, but if it does, whats left of our democracy dies with it.
That is why I believe that if they make us vote again, everyone who believes in democracy, whether a leaver or remainer in the first vote, must vote for leave, to keep our democracy alive.
Again no. British democracy is based on Parliamentary sovereignty, not 'the will of the people'. The only say you or I get is who you vote for in your constituency in a General Election. Once you elect your MP he/she is free to vote any which way they desire. You can attempt to influence the way they vote, but you cannot compel them.
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Not much point having people voting. Might as well go back to the days of the country being run by toffs and landowners. They would know what is best for the plebs.
The only small problem with that is that the plebs are much better informed and organised than before.
I really can see it ending in bloodshed. Just need rash acts from disenfranchised nutters.
And still May plows on like a train crash with Corbyn ambulance chasing alongside.
Steve Baker for PM.
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Not at all as no sane Lever wants May's BRINO which locks us into the EU forever through the NI backstop until we are forced to join the EUSSR in the 2028-30 timescale as planned by May and her grey suits, who see this as an opportunity to lock us into the EU forever with no escape without breaking this International Treaty. The Conservative women's website describes it here in detail. https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/has-may-been-plotting-a-return-to-the-eu-all-along/ (https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/has-may-been-plotting-a-return-to-the-eu-all-along/) May's consistently giving the EU far more than they were asking for then starts to make perfect sense. This is probably why May's plan B ,C,D,E,,,,Z will basically be the same, where she will try to wear MPs down and get her deal. The elephant in the room is that we leave with No Deal on the 29th of March, unless this is passed before then and that date can't be changed without a law superseding it, which is a lengthy process, so there is probably not enough time as it would take a minimum of 40 Commons/Lords sitting days. Commons Motions cannot change this where statutes take precedence.
Karma is that the default No Deal and the leaving date were written into this law as a result of amendments made due to Gina Millers' Supreme Court victory. Thankyou Gina where you have made proper leaving much easier and more likely. :y ;D
Nope. Section 20 subsection 3 and 4 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 states :
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/20/enacted
(3) Subsection (4) applies if the day or time on or at which the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom in accordance with Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union is different from that specified in the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1).
(4)A Minister of the Crown may by regulations—
(a)amend the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1) to ensure that the day and time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom, and.
(b)amend subsection (2) in consequence of any such amendment.
So AIUI if Parliament decided to abandon BREXIT a Minister of the Crown can use the existing act to set "Exit Day" to sometime in the distant future (like year 2122) which should then give enough time to repeal the withdrawal act completely.
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LC0112G - We are talking at cross purposes. You are speaking in the strictly legal / Constitutional sense only. I am talking from the perspective of the promises they made to people, and the honesty and honour with which they claim to operate under.
So it may not have been legally binding, but it was most certainly binding in the more important sense that we were promised by our elected Govt. that they would implement the result. At the recent election, both main parties stood on manifestos of not only leaving the EU, but the customs union and single market, so 80% (give or take) of the votes were cast on that basis.
To have a second referendum is to cancel the first one, which was the largest vote in the History of the country.
For me, that, to all intents and purposes kills what Democracy we have left.
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LC0112G - We are talking at cross purposes. You are speaking in the strictly legal / Constitutional sense only. I am talking from the perspective of the promises they made to people, and the honesty and honour with which they claim to operate under.
So it may not have been legally binding, but it was most certainly binding in the more important sense that we were promised by our elected Govt. that they would implement the result. At the recent election, both main parties stood on manifestos of not only leaving the EU, but the customs union and single market, so 80% (give or take) of the votes were cast on that basis.
To have a second referendum is to cancel the first one, which was the largest vote in the History of the country.
For me, that, to all intents and purposes kills what Democracy we have left.
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Entirely agree.
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It is now far too late to get the kind of deal that pleases anyone.
It was too late for that the moment the referendum was held.
It's too late for that every time we have a General Election.
We should probably scrap the lot and go back to Crown Rule. As Varche says, they know best.
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LC0112G - We are talking at cross purposes. You are speaking in the strictly legal / Constitutional sense only. I am talking from the perspective of the promises they made to people, and the honesty and honour with which they claim to operate under.
So it may not have been legally binding, but it was most certainly binding in the more important sense that we were promised by our elected Govt. that they would implement the result. At the recent election, both main parties stood on manifestos of not only leaving the EU, but the customs union and single market, so 80% (give or take) of the votes were cast on that basis.
To have a second referendum is to cancel the first one, which was the largest vote in the History of the country.
For me, that, to all intents and purposes kills what Democracy we have left.
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Entirely agree.
I think the fact that TM has repeatedly made the point that democracy was doomed if the outcome of the referendum was/is not delivered to the populace who voted out is indicative that morality outweighs Parliamentry Procedure .
I read the information given , in good faith , regarding the PP and the options available to sitting members. It strikes me that it was penned by a quil under yellow candle light when carrier pidgeon communications were state of the art .
This is a brave new world with observent ,demanding and intelligent voters armed with instantanious ,accurate ,historical and real time information on our privilaged past and present members of the house .
To ignore , or rebuke , them would be foolish and incredibly damaging to a career in politics and the party represented.
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LC0112G - We are talking at cross purposes. You are speaking in the strictly legal / Constitutional sense only. I am talking from the perspective of the promises they made to people, and the honesty and honour with which they claim to operate under.
Those 'promises' were made by the Cameron Government. We have a new PM, another general election, and another Government. You are attempting to hold a different Govt to the promises of the previous one.
So it may not have been legally binding, but it was most certainly binding in the more important sense that we were promised by our elected Govt. that they would implement the result. At the recent election, both main parties stood on manifestos of not only leaving the EU, but the customs union and single market, so 80% (give or take) of the votes were cast on that basis.
I disagree with that - it's the problem with our Party Politics. The idea that All Tory Voters (or MP's for that matter) agree with All Tory policies in the manifesto is bogus. Same for all other parties. The Manifesto is simply a list of policies that, if elected, that parties government will attempt to implement. There is no compulsion for any particular MP to support their Party on every policy.
To have a second referendum is to cancel the first one, which was the largest vote in the History of the country.
For me, that, to all intents and purposes kills what Democracy we have left.
How can having another vote ever be anti democratic? Almost 3 years ago we were asked if we wanted to Remain or Leave. The Govt has spent the past 2.5 years attempting to negotiate a Leave deal, and they now have that deal, but hardly anyone supports it. If Parliament end up throwing the problem back to the people again, and the majority is for Hard Brexit or some version of "May's deal", then so be it. Yes Parliament could still ignore the result of any second referendum, but I don't think it would.
As things stand, either Parliament is going to decide on Hard Brexit, some form of Soft Brexit, or No Brexit. How is it undemocratic to allow the people to make that decision if Parliament cannot?
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It is now far too late to get the kind of deal that pleases anyone.
It was too late for that the moment the referendum was held.
It's too late for that every time we have a General Election.
We should probably scrap the lot and go back to Crown Rule. As Varche says, they know best.
They might be OUR representatives, but they are HER MAJESTY'S Government... ::)
Oh, wait, my bad, this is a democracy ;D
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They might be OUR representatives, but they are HER MAJESTY'S Government... ::)
Oh, wait, my bad, this is a democracy ;D
;D I'm surprised Queen Saxe-Coburg-Gotha hasn't told us to stop meddling and roll over for the EU ;D
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That is why I believe that if they make us vote again, everyone who believes in democracy, whether a leaver or remainer in the first vote, must vote for leave, to keep our democracy alive.
There shouldn't be another vote (no matter how cocked up the original was). But if there is, it should not include option to remain - the leave/remain vote has already happened... ...so I've managed to change my mind whilst typing this into another referendum with:
Leave with Chequeresque (with mods, obviously) deal
Hard exit.
On the off chance that another deal comes along in the next few days - highly unlikely - include that.
I have repeatedly said this.
..........but the remain option will almost certainly be there.
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I'm having a hard brexit in my house after March 29th, I don't care what anyone else does. So there.
I won't allow any Eastern European's to do any work for me. The car will no longer go to their car wash either. I'm going to buy less food for a while and pretend there's a shortage. I'll drop a tenner down the grid on the way back from the shops, so it feels like everything's more expensive, and I just won't watch the news.
Sorted.
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Oh.....and I'm getting a new front door with the letterbox six inches off the floor. Ha.
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In order to get a consensus that can make it through parliament the PM may be forced to include a customs union..........which means her BRINO would become even more watery. :)
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As things stand, either Parliament is going to decide on Hard Brexit, some form of Soft Brexit, or No Brexit. How is it undemocratic to allow the people to make that decision if Parliament cannot?
[/quote]
Hard or soft then , as it's always been but absolutely NO remain .
You cannot capitulate to those malevolent thugs and have any degree of self respect .
The UK wants only to stand alone, mind it's own business and trade freely with the world as a whole but the eu, and I speak of the individuals who believe they own it , want to manipulate , interfere and exert control over the UK and whole of Western Europe . That's oppression .
And if you think that's hyberbole try living in one of the PIGS countries that suffered post crash of 2008 .
I said it before that it's like the Mafia , if you're in then you'll do as your told , if you want out we'll kill you .
If a soft or sloppy Brexit cannot be acheived by dignified negotiation with the eu and other parliamentery parties then let's get on with it because the world will still turn on the Saturday morning and it wont be Armageddon.
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As things stand, either Parliament is going to decide on Hard Brexit, some form of Soft Brexit, or No Brexit. How is it undemocratic to allow the people to make that decision if Parliament cannot?
Hard or soft then , as it's always been but absolutely NO remain .
You cannot capitulate to those malevolent thugs and have any degree of self respect .
The UK wants only to stand alone, mind it's own business and trade freely with the world as a whole but the eu, and I speak of the individuals who believe they own it , want to manipulate , interfere and exert control over the UK and whole of Western Europe . That's oppressio
And if you think that's hyberbole try living in one of the PIGS countries that suffered post crash of 2008 .
I said it before that it's like the Mafia , if you're in then you'll do as your told , if you want out we'll kill you .
If a soft or sloppy Brexit cannot be acheived by dignified negotiation with the eu and other parliamentery parties then let's get on with it because the world will still turn on the Saturday morning and it wont be Armageddon.
[/quote]
What would the question or question(s) be for a second vote and who would decide?.......parliament probably won't be able to reach a consensus.
.....and what if we end up with another 48/52 vote or similar?
A second vote is too simplistic.......and it may even start a civil war.
The whole episode is a complete clusterf*uck. :-\
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Presumably remainer's will insist on remain being an option in a 2nd vote.
Presumably brexiteer's will say we've already voted to leave so just give us a choice between a proper no deal brexit or a watery BRINO.
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Hard or soft then , as it's always been but absolutely NO remain .
You cannot capitulate to those malevolent thugs and have any degree of self respect .
The UK wants only to stand alone, mind it's own business and trade freely with the world as a whole but the eu, and I speak of the individuals who believe they own it , want to manipulate , interfere and exert control over the UK and whole of Western Europe . That's oppression .
And if you think that's hyberbole try living in one of the PIGS countries that suffered post crash of 2008 .
I said it before that it's like the Mafia , if you're in then you'll do as your told , if you want out we'll kill you .
If a soft or sloppy Brexit cannot be acheived by dignified negotiation with the eu and other parliamentery parties then let's get on with it because the world will still turn on the Saturday morning and it wont be Armageddon.
I couldn't agree more, Don, but remember: There are almost as many self interested bastards in this country as there are in the EU. It's not only the mainlanders who wish to try to exert control over the whole continent. There's a lot of money swilling around in the city, and the people who control it can grow much richer if we are within the project.
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In order to get a consensus that can make it through parliament the PM may be forced to include a customs union..........which means her BRINO would become even more watery. :)
As I said 2.5yrs ago, if the vote went for leave, it wouldn't be a real leave. We'd still have to pay in, have the same control over our borders, obey all the rules, just have no say or vote in how it was run.
But I was shouted down by all those who were utterly convinced this insignificant rock in the North Sea was so important that the EU would roll over and let us tickle their tummy.
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Insignificant rock? ;D
I would like to see the countries ( other than the five) that are SIGNIFICANT . Go on lets have them please. Might focus your mind a little 8)
Did a journey from Leicester to Birmigham and back today outside rush hour. What a joke the traffic was . A no deal might see less lorries cluttering our motorways up. Unexpected benefit of chaos ( that is tongue in cheek). 1.6 million lorries transported each year by Eurotunnel alone. Huge amount going to and from Ireland too. That will reduce when Varadker gets his hard border.
Steve Baker for PM.
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It's all down to the farcical "reporting" by the media ... who are so keen on "making" the news they no longer "report" it....
Why, oh WHY, does a so-called political "expert" not actualy tell the simple truth .... would only take 4 statements and a few "proper" questions
1) EU demand to know what UK want in order to get the deal passed, this is actually a smokescreen ... they know already
2) For clarity... UK to EU .. the UK want all reference to the "backstop" removed, the UK will not cede control of it's borders to you
3) EU to UK ... UK piss off .. we have promised Ireland they can have a veto, so they have the backstop, we will not renegotiate
4) UK to EU ... ok we leave with no deal so Ireland don't get the backstop anyway and you get a load more trouble that you say you don't want.
Dear Mr Corbyn .. How will you negotiate new terms with the EU when they refuse to reopen negotiations ?
Dear Tory Rebels .. same question as put to Mr Corbyn
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It's all down to the farcical "reporting" by the media ... who are so keen on "making" the news they no longer "report" it....
Why, oh WHY, does a so-called political "expert" not actualy tell the simple truth .... would only take 4 statements and a few "proper" questions
1) EU demand to know what UK want in order to get the deal passed, this is actually a smokescreen ... they know already
2) For clarity... UK to EU .. the UK want all reference to the "backstop" removed, the UK will not cede control of it's borders to you
3) EU to UK ... UK piss off .. we have promised Ireland they can have a veto, so they have the backstop, we will not renegotiate
4) UK to EU ... ok we leave with no deal so Ireland don't get the backstop anyway and you get a load more trouble that you say you don't want.
Dear Mr Corbyn .. How will you negotiate new terms with the EU when they refuse to reopen negotiations ?
Dear Tory Rebels .. same question as put to Mr Corbyn
But the EU will roll over and let us kick 'em in the balls. That's the promise Farage and Co promised.
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But the EU will roll over and let us kick 'em in the balls. That's the promise Farage and Co promised.
Who have shown their true colours by running away from the mess they encouraged.
No one has come out of this well; the Leavers, Remainers, Cameron, May, the Conservative and Labour parties, Parliament, the press, the EU and the British electorate. We all deserve what's happening.
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Nick. Pity the forum doesnt have a Like button for your last post.
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Nick. Pity the forum doesnt have a Like button for your last post.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I concur.
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The broad thrust of 'leave' and the likes of Farage was...... they sell more to us than we sell to them. They need us more than we need them. Therefore they will give us everything we ask for.There would be no negative consequences for the UK. We would have our cake and eat it.
The EU 27 would be submissive to our every demand. The UK would take back control. That was the script. :y
However....... :-\ :'(
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The broad thrust of 'leave' and the likes of Farage was...... they sell more to us than we sell to them. They need us more than we need them. Therefore they will give us everything we ask for.There would be no negative consequences for the UK. We would have our cake and eat it.
The EU 27 would be submissive to our every demand. The UK would take back control. That was the script. :y
But only the deranged and brainwashed actually believed that, surely?
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The broad thrust of 'leave' and the likes of Farage was...... they sell more to us than we sell to them. They need us more than we need them. Therefore they will give us everything we ask for.There would be no negative consequences for the UK. We would have our cake and eat it.
The EU 27 would be submissive to our every demand. The UK would take back control. That was the script. :y
But only the deranged and brainwashed actually believed that, surely?
To quote Francis Urquhart........You might very well think that......I couldn't possibly comment. ::)
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The broad thrust of 'leave' and the likes of Farage was...... they sell more to us than we sell to them. They need us more than we need them. Therefore they will give us everything we ask for.There would be no negative consequences for the UK. We would have our cake and eat it.
The EU 27 would be submissive to our every demand. The UK would take back control. That was the script. :y
But only the deranged and brainwashed actually believed that, surely?
you have two And a half years worth of evidence to the contrary. With more coming every day.
Disappointing, isn't it?
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The reason it is a mess is because you have a remainer PM & MP majority determined to keep us in the EU. May's deal is deliberately so awful & locks us permanently into its crippling terms with the backstop so we are a vassal state at the mercy of the Brussels' dictatorship with no say on what they impose and we have to make a £39bn reparations downpayment for nothing. The deal also includes them taking control of our armed forces & what equipment they can procure.
The last time the French imposed such damning terms was at the Treaty of Versailles and it lead to the rise of Fascism, Hitler & WWII. May's BRINO deal will do the same, if passed, as the only way we can escape these terms in this international treaty will be through politics by other means, which is war. I would prefer my children & grandchildren not to be part of another decimated generation, but I don't see any other get out. As usual it will be us, the normal citizens, that will pay the price of the establishment's folly & personal EU enrichment at our expense.
UKIP has already been hijacked by the far right, so that is your new fascist party, Labour is your far left Marxist one & May is destroying her nasty party, where many people, including me, will never vote for them again. Corbyn's Marxist party now has a 3% lead in the polls. To date we have kept the far left & right parties as minorities but not anymore if BRINO happens. 17.4m Leavers voters who are being ignored by the establishment again and many will take direct action like the French Yellow Jackets until they aren't ignored.
A moderate senior Tory party member said Brexit was a safely valve where no UK political party now represents the working class & they have seen their wages & working conditions hammered through a combination of mass migration & globalization. Where their vote is ignored by the politicians they are now directly shouting at them like calling Soubry a Nazi & if they are still ignored civil disobedience and worse are next. Personally, I've never known such a large section of the electorate to be so angry even the attempted imposition of the Poll Tax was not as bad and we know what happened there.
So if the Remainers succeed in destroying UK democracy by ignoring a clear mandate from 17.4m leavers & handing control of the UK to Brussels so we are a province of the new German empire, we are not going to shrug our shoulders & say that's alright then. May & her grey suits are playing with fire.
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The reason it is a mess is because you have a remainer PM & MP majority determined to keep us in the EU. May's deal is deliberately so awful & locks us permanently into its crippling terms with the backstop so we are a vassal state at the mercy of the Brussels' dictatorship with no say on what they impose and we have to make a £39bn reparations downpayment for nothing. The deal also includes them taking control of our armed forces & what equipment they can procure.
The last time the French imposed such damning terms was at the Treaty of Versailles and it lead to the rise of Fascism, Hitler & WWII. May's BRINO deal will do the same, if passed, as the only way we can escape these terms in this international treaty will be through politics by other means, which is war. I would prefer my children & grandchildren not to be part of another decimated generation, but I don't see any other get out. As usual it will be us, the normal citizens, that will pay the price of the establishment's folly & personal EU enrichment at our expense.
UKIP has already been hijacked by the far right, so that is your new fascist party, Labour is your far left Marxist one & May is destroying her nasty party, where many people, including me, will never vote for them again. Corbyn's Marxist party now has a 3% lead in the polls. To date we have kept the far left & right parties as minorities but not anymore if BRINO happens. 17.4m Leavers voters who are being ignored by the establishment again and many will take direct action like the French Yellow Jackets until they aren't ignored.
A moderate senior Tory party member said Brexit was a safely valve where no UK political party now represents the working class & they have seen their wages & working conditions hammered through a combination of mass migration & globalization. Where their vote is ignored by the politicians they are now directly shouting at them like calling Soubry a Nazi & if they are still ignored civil disobedience and worse are next. Personally, I've never known such a large section of the electorate to be so angry even the attempted imposition of the Poll Tax was not as bad and we know what happened there.
So if the Remainers succeed in destroying UK democracy by ignoring a clear mandate from 17.4m leavers & handing control of the UK to Brussels so we are a province of the new German empire, we are not going to shrug our shoulders & say that's alright then. May & her grey suits are playing with fire.
Maybe, just maybe, she is playing for time. Like a rugby match at 75 minutes she just needs to maintain the status quo and avoid going into extra time to deliver the brexit that the majority voted for.....
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Cannot see May delivering anything that fits “ leave the EU”
Saw something on TV that said turnaround day had been reached . I.e. old codger voters ( typically leave) had died and been replaced by youngsters ( typically remain ) reaching voting age. So wait for say another ten years and a vote would statistically be for remain.
I have a strong suspicion that you are right Rods2 , if the Remain MP minority manage to overturn the majority people vote that violence will be the outcome. Then people will be shocked and not able to understand why?
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Cannot see May delivering anything that fits “ leave the EU”
Problem is, that means different things to different people.
May seems to have interpreted it as "stop free movement and let us make our own trade deals".
Others would probably be happy for free movement and trade to carry on as before but to bail us out of the "ever closer integration" conveyor belt towards a federal Europe.
... or somewhere in-between.
A full-on shitstorm no-deal is probably the only thing that would satisfy all leavers. Anything else and we may as well remain. The number of people it won't satisfy is probably about the same in each case! ;D
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Don't worry everyone, she's going to remove the backstop from the deal.
Nobody has any idea how she's going to persuade the EU to do that, but that's what she's going to do. ???
Meanwhile, the IRA have resurfaced and started blowing things up again.
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Don't worry everyone, she's going to remove the backstop from the deal.
Nobody has any idea how she's going to persuade the EU to do that, but that's what she's going to do. ???
Meanwhile, the IRA have resurfaced and started blowing things up again.
Stoopid is as Stoopid does :-X
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The timing was very convenient. ::)
Could Varadkar have sent out a request ? :D...…………...Not as far fetched as you might think.
In the late 60,s there was civil unrest in Norn Irn and it became known that the IRA were talking about reforming after a long break. The leader of the republic at the time (Jack Lynch) got a message to them that if they started things off, he would then use it as "an excuse" to send the Irish army into the North, invade it overnight and snatch it back from the Brits before they knew what hit them.
Greatly spurred on by this they started their campaign, only to find that when it came to it, he lost his bottle. The rest, as they say, is history.
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It's possible a 'no deal brexit' could be taken off the table at some point. Which, in effect, means there can not be a brexit worth it's name.
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It's possible a 'no deal brexit' could be taken off the table at some point. Which, in effect, means there can not be a brexit worth it's name.
I don't see how MP's can stop No Deal. :-\
Yes they can have a vote to register their displeasure and maybe this amendment to change the way Parliament works that Dominic Grievance is bringing forward may make it possible for Parliament to change the legislation that we leave on the 29th March.
However, under the terms of Article 50, EU Treaties will cease to apply once the 2 year period is up, ie 29th March. This is EU law which is superior to UK law. ::)
So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely or to persuade the 27 other EU countries to allow us to extend the A50 period and the difficulty with that is the EU Parliament elections in May. :)
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Always the case with the real people who run this country and the people who masquerade at members of parliament
That was a reply to Lord Opti by the way
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Always the case with the real people who run this country and the people who masquerade at members of parliament
That was a reply to Lord Opti by the way
Yes Lord Opti is a naughty Peer, who spends more time on here and chasing the maid than sitting in the Lords! ;D
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Always the case with the real people who run this country and the people who masquerade at members of parliament
That was a reply to Lord Opti by the way
Yes Lord Opti is a naughty Peer, who spends more time on here and chasing the maid than sitting in the Lords! ;D
Bet he still claims his £300 a day. Probably gets the butler to sign in for him.
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Always the case with the real people who run this country and the people who masquerade at members of parliament
That was a reply to Lord Opti by the way
Yes Lord Opti is a naughty Peer, who spends more time on here and chasing the maid than sitting in the Lords! ;D
Bet he still claims his £300 a day. Probably gets the butler to sign in for him.
I expect he gets the Chauffeur to drive the Signum down to Westminster, so the Butler can sign in and claims the mileage allowance for the Jag! :o ;D
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Always the case with the real people who run this country and the people who masquerade at members of parliament
That was a reply to Lord Opti by the way
Yes Lord Opti is a naughty Peer, who spends more time on here and chasing the maid than sitting in the Lords! ;D
Bet he still claims his £300 a day. Probably gets the butler to sign in for him.
I expect he gets the Chauffeur to drive the Signum down to Westminster, so the Butler can sign in and claims the mileage allowance for the Jag! :o ;D
Bastard! >:(
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So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely
Which is exactly what will happen on March 28th, 23:59:59.
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It's possible a 'no deal brexit' could be taken off the table at some point. Which, in effect, means there can not be a brexit worth it's name.
I don't see how MP's can stop No Deal. :-\
Yes they can have a vote to register their displeasure and maybe this amendment to change the way Parliament works that Dominic Grievance is bringing forward may make it possible for Parliament to change the legislation that we leave on the 29th March.
However, under the terms of Article 50, EU Treaties will cease to apply once the 2 year period is up, ie 29th March. This is EU law which is superior to UK law. ::)
So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely or to persuade the 27 other EU countries to allow us to extend the A50 period and the difficulty with that is the EU Parliament elections in May. :)
If you read the act, you'll see that it refers almost exclusively to "Exit Day" rather than any specific date. 29th March is mentioned in Section 20, subsection 2, which is the part of the act that deals with interpretaions of the various phrases. However, Section 20, subsection 3 & 4 give a Minister of State the power to vary the date of "Exit Day".
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/20/enacted#section-20-2
So from the UK side, there is no issue with the government changing the date of "Exit Day" since the legislation already allows for it. AIUI parliament can order the government to do that.
Whether the EU27 agree to extending the Art50 deadline is up to them. Personally I think they will if a second referendum, or some exit deal looks likely. I don't think they will if it looks lie the UK is playing for time and/or just wanting to re-open the May agreement.
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So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely
Which is exactly what will happen on March 28th, 23:59:59.
Why the rush? Brexit day starts at 23:00:00 on March 29th. ;D
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It's possible a 'no deal brexit' could be taken off the table at some point. Which, in effect, means there can not be a brexit worth it's name.
I don't see how MP's can stop No Deal. :-\
Yes they can have a vote to register their displeasure and maybe this amendment to change the way Parliament works that Dominic Grievance is bringing forward may make it possible for Parliament to change the legislation that we leave on the 29th March.
However, under the terms of Article 50, EU Treaties will cease to apply once the 2 year period is up, ie 29th March. This is EU law which is superior to UK law. ::)
So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely or to persuade the 27 other EU countries to allow us to extend the A50 period and the difficulty with that is the EU Parliament elections in May. :)
If you read the act, you'll see that it refers almost exclusively to "Exit Day" rather than any specific date. 29th March is mentioned in Section 20, subsection 2, which is the part of the act that deals with interpretaions of the various phrases. However, Section 20, subsection 3 & 4 give a Minister of State the power to vary the date of "Exit Day".
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/20/enacted#section-20-2
So from the UK side, there is no issue with the government changing the date of "Exit Day" since the legislation already allows for it. AIUI parliament can order the government to do that.
Whether the EU27 agree to extending the Art50 deadline is up to them. Personally I think they will if a second referendum, or some exit deal looks likely. I don't think they will if it looks lie the UK is playing for time and/or just wanting to re-open the May agreement.
It matters not, as the date and time of 23.00 on the 29th March 2019 was enshrined in EU law when we handed in the A50 letter, according to the provisions of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. :y
EU law is superior in this case so Parliament does not have sovereignty and cannot do as it likes as you always claim. ::)
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Apart from revoking A50 thanks to those helpful folks at the ECJ. ::)
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It's possible a 'no deal brexit' could be taken off the table at some point. Which, in effect, means there can not be a brexit worth it's name.
I don't see how MP's can stop No Deal. :-\
Yes they can have a vote to register their displeasure and maybe this amendment to change the way Parliament works that Dominic Grievance is bringing forward may make it possible for Parliament to change the legislation that we leave on the 29th March.
However, under the terms of Article 50, EU Treaties will cease to apply once the 2 year period is up, ie 29th March. This is EU law which is superior to UK law. ::)
So the only way to avoid No Deal as I see it is to either revoke A50 entirely or to persuade the 27 other EU countries to allow us to extend the A50 period and the difficulty with that is the EU Parliament elections in May. :)
If you read the act, you'll see that it refers almost exclusively to "Exit Day" rather than any specific date. 29th March is mentioned in Section 20, subsection 2, which is the part of the act that deals with interpretaions of the various phrases. However, Section 20, subsection 3 & 4 give a Minister of State the power to vary the date of "Exit Day".
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/20/enacted#section-20-2
So from the UK side, there is no issue with the government changing the date of "Exit Day" since the legislation already allows for it. AIUI parliament can order the government to do that.
Whether the EU27 agree to extending the Art50 deadline is up to them. Personally I think they will if a second referendum, or some exit deal looks likely. I don't think they will if it looks lie the UK is playing for time and/or just wanting to re-open the May agreement.
It matters not, as the date and time of 23.00 on the 29th March 2019 was enshrined in EU law when we handed in the A50 letter, according to the provisions of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. :y
EU law is superior in this case so Parliament does not have sovereignty and cannot do as it likes as you always claim. ::)
Sigh, No.
What the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 does is determine the way that the European Communities Act 1972 is repealed (It says that in section 1 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018) .
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/section/1/enacted
The European Communities Act 1972 only applies within the UK (and other dependent territories). The UK parliament is and always was free to set any date it wishes for the repeal to take effect. However, treaty obligations meant we had agreed to give 2 years notice, which have now (almost) elapsed.
Parliament can and always could decide on what day EU law ceases to apply within the UK. It could even allow European Law to apply after 29th March - that's the way any Brexit extension will work if it happens. However, without the agreement of the EU27 we loose any say on what those laws are after 29th March.
Extending full participation past 29th March requires the treaty to remain intact. Which means a Minister of state extending "Brexit Day" via Section 20 subsection 4, and the EU27 allowing the extension via Art50(3). Or us unilaterally withdrawing Art50.
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Sigh... Without the agreement of the EU27 to extend the A50 period or other arrangements are put in place again with the agreement of the EU27, the treaties cease to apply to the UK and we are no longer a member of the European Union after 2300 29th March 2019. ::)
Unless they revoke A50, Parliament can huff, puff, amend the various acts as much as it likes but without the cooperation of the EU27 are pretty much bystanders as the clock ticks. :-X
Tick tock! :)
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Meanwhile, the IRA have resurfaced and started blowing things up again.
That, sadly, was also predictable. Lets hope that comes to nothing :(
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Also, a Labour MP in the commons today called the hard line brexiteers in the Tory party Fascists. To my knowledge, squeaker Bercow didn't so much as raise an eyebrow. Disgusting.
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Agreed, but they know its a way to make enough headlines to potentially influence things. Maybe the vote should have been to leave, but make NI part of Ireland. That also solves the backstop ;)
Also, a Labour MP in the commons today called the hard line brexiteers in the Tory party Fascists. To my knowledge, squeaker Bercow didn't so much as raise an eyebrow. Disgusting.
Bercow's recent actions do seem to be bias towards the leave side. Maybe he was evening things up ;)
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The odius twerp is long overdue a slapping off his perch regardless of political leanings... :-X
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The odius twerp is long overdue a slapping off his perch regardless of political leanings... :-X
Yes, he has completely lost his neutrality and credibility as a result :(
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Agreed, but they know its a way to make enough headlines to potentially influence things. Maybe the vote should have been to leave, but make NI part of Ireland. That also solves the backstop ;)
Unification of the island of Ireland requires separate referenda in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. I doubt that the people of the Republic would vote for it, let alone those in NI. ;)
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Agreed, but they know its a way to make enough headlines to potentially influence things. Maybe the vote should have been to leave, bu 1.t make NI part of Ireland. That also solves the backstop ;)
Also, a Labour MP in the commons today called the hard line brexiteers in the Tory party Fascists. To my knowledge, squeaker Bercow didn't so much as raise an eyebrow. Disgusting.
Bercow's 2. recent actions do seem to be bias towards the leave side. Maybe he was evening things up ;)
1. Trust me the consequences of that really do not bear thinking about. :o
2. Can I have some of what your smoking / snorting ? ::) ;D
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Agreed, but they know its a way to make enough headlines to potentially influence things. Maybe the vote should have been to leave, but make NI part of Ireland. That also solves the backstop ;)
Unification of the island of Ireland requires separate referenda in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. I doubt that the people of the Republic would vote for it, let alone those in NI. ;)
My God, could that be on the table?! :o :o :o
'The Troubles' I think put that idea to rest after 1998.. We just cannot go through all that again; Brexit is bad enough! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
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2. Can I have some of what your smoking / snorting ? ::) ;D
I was hoping to borrow some of yours ;D. It can't all be down to Farage's brainwashing.
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And just as predictably, was used in the commons today to apply pressure on May to think carefully about what she is doing.
Its sick.
Agreed, but they know its a way to make enough headlines to potentially influence things. Maybe the vote should have been to leave, but make NI part of Ireland. That also solves the backstop ;)
Unification of the island of Ireland requires separate referenda in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. I doubt that the people of the Republic would vote for it, let alone those in NI. ;)
My God, could that be on the table?! :o :o :o
'The Troubles' I think put that idea to rest after 1998.. We just cannot go through all that again; Brexit is bad enough! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
I doubt it Lizzie, but it dosn't stop the scare/doom mongers from bringing it up! ::)
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I doubt it Lizzie, but it dosn't stop the scare/doom mongers from bringing it up! ::)
If that was aimed at me, no, I brought it up as a sensible, though tongue-in-cheek, option to solve all the issues...
Ireland - happy
IRA - happy
Unionists - a bit pissed, but who cares
Pragmatic EU leavers - happy, as no indeterminate backstop
Hardcore hard exit EU leavers - a bit pissed, but who cares
Hmmm, maybe it is an option :P ::)
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I doubt it Lizzie, but it dosn't stop the scare/doom mongers from bringing it up! ::)
If that was aimed at me, no, I brought it up as a sensible, though tongue-in-cheek, option to solve all the issues...
Ireland - happy
IRA - happy
Unionists - a bit pissed, but who cares
Pragmatic EU leavers - happy, as no indeterminate backstop
Hardcore hard exit EU leavers - a bit pissed, but who cares
Hmmm, maybe it is an option :P ::)
Getting paranoid? ;D
No it wasn't aimed at you TB, but the unification of Ireland is often brought up along with all the stories like the sky will fall in, the Four Horsemen will arrive with their apocalypse and the whole of the UK will be sucked into a vortex down into the bowels of the earth! ::)
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Sigh... Without the agreement of the EU27 to extend the A50 period or other arrangements are put in place again with the agreement of the EU27, the treaties cease to apply to the UK and we are no longer a member of the European Union after 2300 29th March 2019. ::)
Unless they revoke A50, Parliament can huff, puff, amend the various acts as much as it likes but without the cooperation of the EU27 are pretty much bystanders as the clock ticks. :-X
Tick tock! :)
You miss the point. The treaties don't cease to apply to the UK, or UK citizens, unless and until the 1972 act is repealed. The '72 act is on the statute book and only parliament can repeal it. The 2018 act is the method of repeal, and that allows a Minister of State can extend "Brexit Day" past 29th March whether the EU agree to it or not.
We can end up in a state where we're out of the EU, but the EU laws/treaties all still apply to UK based companies and people because parliament hasn't repealed the 72 act, and the UK courts are bound to uphold those rules/laws.
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I doubt it Lizzie, but it dosn't stop the scare/doom mongers from bringing it up! ::)
If that was aimed at me, no, I brought it up as a sensible, though tongue-in-cheek, option to solve all the issues...
Ireland - happy
IRA - happy
Unionists - a bit pissed, but who cares
Pragmatic EU leavers - happy, as no indeterminate backstop
Hardcore hard exit EU leavers - a bit pissed, but who cares
Hmmm, maybe it is an option :P ::)
Getting paranoid? ;D
No it wasn't aimed at you TB, but the unification of Ireland is often brought up along with all the stories like the sky will fall in, the Four Horsemen will arrive with their apocalypse and the whole of the UK will be sucked into a vortex down into the bowels of the earth! ::)
Is that before or after No deal? I get confused... ::)
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I doubt it Lizzie, but it dosn't stop the scare/doom mongers from bringing it up! ::)
If that was aimed at me, no, I brought it up as a sensible, though tongue-in-cheek, option to solve all the issues...
Republic of Ireland - scared, very scared, for good reason
IRA - happy initially (which shows it would be a bad thing) - then mercilessly slaughtered - a good thing
Unionists - Angry beyond belief at the death of democracy, and complete betrayal by Westminster, they would make sure we all care
Pragmatic EU leavers - if they are happy with that, they aren't pragmatic, they are incredibly weak and terminally stupid.
Hardcore hard exit EU leavers - very angered, and in despair about the death of Democracy.
Hmmm, maybe it is an option :P ::)
FTFY. ;)
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You miss the point. The treaties don't cease to apply to the UK, or UK citizens, unless and until the 1972 act is repealed. The '72 act is on the statute book and only parliament can repeal it. The 2018 act is the method of repeal, and that allows a Minister of State can extend "Brexit Day" past 29th March whether the EU agree to it or not.
They do as far as the European Union is concerned. :)
We can end up in a state where we're out of the EU, but the EU laws/treaties all still apply to UK based companies and people because parliament hasn't repealed the 72 act, and the UK courts are bound to uphold those rules/laws.
So what you are saying is that we will be out, but could pretend we are still in? ;D
That would go down well with the electorate! ::)
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So what you are saying is that we will be out, but could pretend we are still in? ;D
That would go down well with the electorate! ::)
No - it's nothing to do with us being in or out. Simply that any and all EU laws would still apply within the UK until/unless the 1972 act is repealed, and the Government/Parliament has the ability to delay that repeal till any point in the future by virtue of the powers in the 2018 act. It doesn't require EU approval or agreement.
However, I agree delaying the repeal is pointless unless the EU also agree to an extension under Art50(3). Doesn't prevent it happening though.
It's difficult to see anything going down well with the electorate from here though.
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Is it over yet.
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Not quite :'(
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Is it over yet.
Lights are sill on here so obviously not. ;D
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Not so sure here as no sun so maybe the sky has fallen in already in advance of a no deal . Maybe the sun doesnt normally shine here. Who knows?
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Well Macron and Merkel have just signed a "Friendship Treaty" ::)
Apparently they have pledged to defend each others citizens from each other ::)
Looks like the yellow jackets in Paris will have to contend with Merkel's stormtroopers marching around any day soon :D
Should bring back a few memories ;D
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Well Macron and Merkel have just signed a "Friendship Treaty" ::)
Apparently they have pledged to defend each others citizens from each other ::)
Looks like the yellow jackets in Paris will have to contend with Merkel's stormtroopers marching around any day soon :D
Should bring back a few memories ;D
Well, given the history of Franco-German conflict, that means nothing, like the "Alliances" that led to The Great War!
I just hope it never comes to the Foreign Secretary modern successor of Sir Edward Grey also having to say ""The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time", which could happen given the potential for the EU to fracture into an array of warring states. :( :(
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Well it hasnt gone down well in other EU countries.
Italy and Poland are contemplating forming an axis against the French German one.
You could not make it up. Macron and Merkel, bothstruggling in popularity stakes staging a joint back slapping exercise withpossiblylittle meaning or maybe not......
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Well it hasnt gone down well in other EU countries.
Italy and Poland are contemplating forming an axis against the French German one.
You could not make it up. Macron and Merkel, bothstruggling in popularity stakes staging a joint back slapping exercise withpossiblylittle meaning or maybe not......
Yep, and showing the European instability that I as an historian dread! :( :(
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Yes Lizzie. In a nutshell.
Germany anf France want a greater integrated Federal Europe with populism stopped in its tracks. All member countries to toe the party line. What amazes me is that Brits still do not see what is really going on with the EU. Mind you most voters only think “ am I going to be worse or better off”.
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Yes Lizzie. In a nutshell.
Germany anf France want a greater integrated Federal Europe with populism stopped in its tracks. All member countries to toe the party line. What amazes me is that Brits still do not see what is really going on with the EU. Mind you most voters only think “ am I going to be worse or better off”.
Yes, as they have historically for certainly the last 100 years ot at least once all got the vote. It is natural human nature.
That thought also brought, amongst other factors, the Nazis to power in Germany. :(
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Another petition saying we don't want the extending or removal of Article 50 under any circumstances, which has already got over 100,000 votes. Even if these petitions get nowhere they do indicate to the government the strength of feelings on leaving the EU for many people. :y :y :y
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/224908/signatures/new (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/224908/signatures/new)
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Just signed it. As imo, should anyone who believes in democracy, regardless of their feelings about Brexit.
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Signed it :y
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signed :y
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Almost certainly a real no deal brexit will not be allowed to happen by the 'powers that be'
Even JRM seems to be softening his approach. Big business will see a 'no deal' doesn't happen.
I can't believe if we 'leave' with a soft brexit that leavers will be happy that the EU will still be in charge to a large extent.
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Signed, but don,t hold out much hope with the bunch of incompetent tards who wander the corridors of the Palace of Westminster. ::)
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I've given up dropping my pearls of wisdom on this subject. It's going to be no brexit, or a deal that is so soft it might as well be no brexit.
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Agreed. :y...……...my guess is that the EU will make some insignificant concessions at the last minute, and there will be little choice but to grab their offer to stop the referendum from being overturned completely.
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I'm beyond caring, as long as its not extended. The uncertainty has done irreparable damage to the economy, as can be seen from the business pages of any newspaper, no matter who's knob they are gobbling. And if you don't believe what you read in the papers, just take a look down your local high street or retail park.
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Ah yes raging unemployment. Yes the economy is really struggling. Unemplyment at the dizzying heights of a massive 4 %. The lowest it has been.......
Try being a young person in Greece, Spain, Italy etc trying to get a job, family, house. Whole villages are devoid of 18 to 30s who have left the country or gone to a city.
You are right about the uncertainty damaging business. The retards in Westminster collectively should hold their heads in shame at their collective posturing for personal gain rather than pulling together for the UK good. As Nick W says no politician comes out of it looking good.
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If nothing else, this whole exercise has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the shower of shite in Westminster aren't fit to run a corner shop, never mind a country.
Having said that, the shower in Brussels are a whole lot worse.
So I guess that means were all doomed. ;D
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If nothing else, this whole exercise has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the shower of shite in Westminster aren't fit to run a corner shop, never mind a country.
Having said that, the shower in Brussels are a whole lot worse.
So I guess that means were all doomed. ;D
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Educated idiots the majority of them , not any idea of the real world fed up with all of it bunch of chinless wonders.UK must be the laughing stock of the world.
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The much bigger threat is Corbyn which any business or property owner should be viewing with dread, where we don't want to be the next one party, all business & property owned by the state socialist Venezuela.
I understand what Dyson has done & why & one of those reasons must be putting his businesses beyond Corbyn. :y :y :y
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I understand what Dyson has done & why & one of those reasons must be putting his businesses beyond Corbyn. :y :y :y
I think Mr Dyson has other reasons for his comments and actions over the past 3 or 4 years, and Corbyn isn't one of them ;)