Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: alfie on 07 January 2010, 14:45:21
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Hi everyone,Has,nt it gone awfully quiet about global warming at this very cold moment in time.I don,t think that I have even heard the word whispered on the news,let alone by this crooked goverment.
Regards
Alfie.
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aye its all a load of 'dangle berries', cows emmit more emissions than cars in total, don't see beef getting charged on its Co2 rating ::)
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Give then a while, and they will come up with a reason for it. And don't forget they changed it from "global warming" to "climate change" this gives them the ability to tax us whichever way the weather goes. ;D
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Actually, when they started talking about man-made climate change/global warming 30 years ago, they said it would bring extremes of weather to the UK, not necessarily an increase in temperature. They also said we wouldn't see any effects until the middle of the 21st century.
The warming over the past decade, therefore, is not in accordance with the pattern predicted by the earliest models. We know that the climate scientists have "improved" their model.
I sometimes wonder whether this improvement has been made on the basis of the science or the data. If it is the latter, I further wonder whether that is mathematically valid. :question :question :question
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began. There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world. For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F. India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.
The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change. Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming. That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies. The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation. It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution? I think not! ;) ;)
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That should warm things up around here a bit Lizzie!
I have to agree with you - that's another log on the fire!
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That should warm things up around here a bit Lizzie!
I have to agree with you - that's another log on the fire!
Oh yes Chris.........Lizzie's back [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] ;D ;D
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began. There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world. For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F. India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.
The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change. Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming. That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies. The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation. It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution? I think not! ;) ;)
Ermmmmmm............Yes.
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began. There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world. For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F. India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.
The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change. Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming. That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies. The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation. It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution? I think not! ;) ;)
I agree Lizzie but the thing that hacks me off is the fact that there are so many bodys governments included that are laying the blame squarely on humans, when I believe its a natural cycle. It's also a ideal situation to use as an excuse and hit us with even more taxation.
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Snow in winter - unprecedented. ::)
The gov. of th Maldives hired a highly respected expert to carry out a long term study on their sea levels.When he reported back that the sea level wasnt rising they sacked him,and not long afterwards released to the worlds media footage of their underwater cabinet meeting.
The recent Copengagen summit failed to complete a "meaningful agreement" due at least in part to the fact that all the little small countries would not accept the billions being offered by the more wealthy countries,they insisted that they needed many more billions if the planet was to be saved.
Draw your own conclusions. Humanity on the brink of extinction or a global swindle to redistribute wealth on the one hand and allow big business to generate a lot of wealth from thin air on the other ? ;)
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
Oh dear, oh dear.
The world's climate always changes. The atmosphere is chaotic. The climate follows trends and cycles, largely solar and oceanic.
But, have there been more hurricanes?
No.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/12/global-hurricane-activity-has-decreased-to-the-lowest-level-in-30-years/
Have there been more droughts?
No.
"...recently, a study of the droughts during the latter half of the 20th century showed that “the mid-1950s showed the highest drought activity and the mid-1970s to mid-1980s the lowest activity.”
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V12/N30/C1.php
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began.
Three points: First of all, there is ample evidence to show that temperature data has been manipulated.
Second: Even taking the figures published, daytime maxima have not risen, but night-time maxima have. The reason? Almost certainly due to urbanisation. Tarmac and concrete absorb solar radiation during the day and expel it at night (like storage heaters). Third: the phrase "since records began" gives the game away. For how long have temperatures accurate to 0.1 degree Celcius been measured? In terrestrial timescales, it's a miniscule period.
the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change.
Not at all. There is nothing about our climate today which is without precedent, often recent.
Read this PDF (from an article published in 1922!)
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf
There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK...
.
The rainfall of Summer 2008 was caused by a cut-off low. A relatively rare, but well-documented meteorological event. The rainfall in Cumbria a few months ago was due to an pressure pattern known as a “standing wave”. Nothing to do with man, or global warming:
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2009/11/22_The_Near_Perfect_Storm%2C_Not_Global_Warming.html
Human beings are suffering from this change, the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
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Sorry, but this just isn't true:
“I recently visited Bangladesh, a country cursed by floods. In the Sundarban delta, I documented very strong coastal erosion despite zero changes in sea level. So, even here, there is no global sea level rise going on today — just as in the Maldives, in Tuvalu and in Vanuatu, to mention a few famous sites claimed already to be in the process of becoming flooded.
By the end of this century, sea level may have risen by between 30cm and 50cm according to the various IPCC scenarios. Our records suggest a maximum of 20cm. Neither of those levels would pose any real problem — simply a return to the situation in the 17th and the 19th to early 20th centuries, respectively.”
Dr Mörner is the head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University in Sweden. He is past president (1999-2003) of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, and leader of the Maldives Sea Level Project. Dr. Mörner has been studying the sea level and its effects on coastal areas for some 35 years.
The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community....
No, there are many scientists who disagree with the global warming change and there are many politicians, too. Sadly, many governments have based their policies on the UN IPCC. However, it is now fast becoming a discredited body - especially its leader, Pachauri.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/pachauri-nose-in-honey-jar.html
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The greatest threat of the 21st century: not AGW but Eco-Fascism
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100021577/the-greatest-threat-of-the-21st-century-not-agw-but-eco-fascism/
Read and think. ;)
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
Oh dear, oh dear.
The world's climate always changes. The atmosphere is chaotic. The climate follows trends and cycles, largely solar and oceanic.
But, have there been more hurricanes?
No.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/12/global-hurricane-activity-has-decreased-to-the-lowest-level-in-30-years/
Have there been more droughts?
No.
"...recently, a study of the droughts during the latter half of the 20th century showed that “the mid-1950s showed the highest drought activity and the mid-1970s to mid-1980s the lowest activity.”
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V12/N30/C1.php
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began.
Three points: First of all, there is ample evidence to show that temperature data has been manipulated.
Second: Even taking the figures published, daytime maxima have not risen, but night-time maxima have. The reason? Almost certainly due to urbanisation. Tarmac and concrete absorb solar radiation during the day and expel it at night (like storage heaters). Third: the phrase "since records began" gives the game away. For how long have temperatures accurate to 0.1 degree Celcius been measured? In terrestrial timescales, it's a miniscule period.
the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change.
Not at all. There is nothing about our climate today which is without precedent, often recent.
Read this PDF (from an article published in 1922!)
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf
There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK...
.
The rainfall of Summer 2008 was caused by a cut-off low. A relatively rare, but well-documented meteorological event. The rainfall in Cumbria a few months ago was due to an pressure pattern known as a “standing wave”. Nothing to do with man, or global warming:
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2009/11/22_The_Near_Perfect_Storm%2C_Not_Global_Warming.html
Human beings are suffering from this change, the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
.
Sorry, but this just isn't true:
“I recently visited Bangladesh, a country cursed by floods. In the Sundarban delta, I documented very strong coastal erosion despite zero changes in sea level. So, even here, there is no global sea level rise going on today — just as in the Maldives, in Tuvalu and in Vanuatu, to mention a few famous sites claimed already to be in the process of becoming flooded.
By the end of this century, sea level may have risen by between 30cm and 50cm according to the various IPCC scenarios. Our records suggest a maximum of 20cm. Neither of those levels would pose any real problem — simply a return to the situation in the 17th and the 19th to early 20th centuries, respectively.”
Dr Mörner is the head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University in Sweden. He is past president (1999-2003) of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, and leader of the Maldives Sea Level Project. Dr. Mörner has been studying the sea level and its effects on coastal areas for some 35 years.
The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community....
No, there are many scientists who disagree with the global warming change and there are many politicians, too. Sadly, many governments have based their policies on the UN IPCC. However, it is now fast becoming a discredited body - especially its leader, Pachauri.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/pachauri-nose-in-honey-jar.html
To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
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Very condescending paragraph there Lizzie. What people like you will have to accept is that quite a significant proportion of the population of THIS country dont believe a word of it.
They also dont much care what happens in Bangladesh. Bad attitude? You'd better believe it.
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Very condescending paragraph there Lizzie. What people like you will have to accept is that quite a significant proportion of the population of THIS country dont believe a word of it.
They also dont much care what happens in Bangladesh. Bad attitude? You'd better believe it.
Don't think so, just facing up to Nick's reaction, about facts not personality.
However your comment is very condescending and plainly personally very insulting! >:( >:( >:(
What do you meam "people like me"??????!!
Oh, so once again any comment that supports the view we should take climate change seriously is to be shouted at, insulted, and made to look stupid???????
That is the very reason why I do not usually comment on the OOF now about these subjects STMO!
But don't worry I am not going to enter into a slagging match with you on your personality, as frankly it is not worth it with you!! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X Small minded mentality limiting itself to just this county says it all!! >:( >:(
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
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Very condescending paragraph there Lizzie. What people like you will have to accept is that quite a significant proportion of the population of THIS country dont believe a word of it.
They also dont much care what happens in Bangladesh. Bad attitude? You'd better believe it.
Don't think so, just facing up to Nick's reaction, about facts not personality.
However your comment is very condescending and plainly personally very insulting! >:( >:( >:(
What do you meam "people like me"??????!!
Oh, so once again any comment that supports the view we should take climate change seriously is to be shouted at, insulted, and made to look stupid???????
That is the very reason why I do not usually comment on the OOF now about these subjects STMO!
But don't worry I am not going to enter into a slagging match with you on your personality, as frankly it is not worth it with you!! :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
No. I'm better at it. Pigface ;D ;D ;D ;D
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
I'm not sure if I believe it or not Albs. I'm just not prepared to let it become a major part of my daily life. When the water's up to my knees, I'll give it further consideration. :y
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
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I always thought CAPITALISING random words and using the word FACT a lot (in capitals obviously) was the only way to win an internet argument. ;D
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I always thought CAPITALISING random words and using the word FACT a lot (in capitals obviously) was the only way to win an internet argument. ;D
And you'd be wrong right, as usual John. ;D
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
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As I have stated before I cannot be bothered to discuss this subject anymore on the OOF as I know that you and others Nick, maybe for all the right reasons, are so convinced the governments of the world, and the scientific community, along with those "people like me" who watch, listen, read and learn about what is happening around us, are involved in some conspiracy to con the world's population over global climate change. Indeed I am sure you and others think I and others who believe this is very real are stupid and should be shouted down. Never forget the world's politicians have families as well and live on this planet.
As I have other channels open to me for interesting debate rather than a car forum, I will now withdraw from all discussions on the subject of climate change. You can all believe what you like, as frankly it is not going to make any difference to how the world's leaders will act in our best interests on this matter. ;) ;)
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
why would i care about the opinion of people who have time to watch gmtv in the morning? are they now to set the agenda for the rest of us?
Lizzie - you're right of course, but good luck with the deluded, blinkered and gullible - oh wait a second thats us and the vast majority of climate scientists, a lot of whom have dedicated their entire professional life to this science thats science, not guesswork, faith or opinion but science - you know, the "magical thinking" behind our entire lives?
but you'll still get the sceptics leaping on any dip in temperature - demonstrating their absolute ignorance of the facts - hell mend them i say - but wear a hard heat or your head will hurt on that brick wall you'll be hitting it against Liz
;D ;D ;D
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
why would i care about the opinion of people who have time to watch gmtv in the morning? are they now to set the agenda for the rest of us?
Lizzie - you're right of course, but good luck with the deluded, blinkered and gullible - oh wait a second thats us and the vast majority of climate scientists, a lot of whom have dedicated their entire professional life to this science thats science, not guesswork, faith or opinion but science - you know, the "magical thinking" behind our entire lives?
but you'll still get the sceptics leaping on any dip in temperature - demonstrating their absolute ignorance of the facts - hell mend them i say - but wear a hard heat or your head will hurt on that brick wall you'll be hitting it against Liz
;D ;D ;D
It really doesn't matter Banjaxx, if global warming is not happening, it will soon die a death and they can think of their next wheeze.
If it is happening, then we are doomed because, as was proven at Copenhagen, we will walk straight into it, eyes wide open.
Discussion on a car forum, no matter how emotive, will not change opinions, nor save the world.
Ps. Shouldn't you be driving a hybrid?
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
#
As I have stated before I cannot be bothered to discuss this subject anymore on the OOF as I know that you and others Nick, maybe for all the right reasons, are so convinced the governments of the world, and the scientific community, along with those "people like me" who watch, listen, read and learn about what is happening around us, are involved in some conspiracy to con the world's population over global climate change. Indeed I am sure you and others think I and others who believe this is very real are stupid and should be shouted down. Never forget the world's politicians have families as well and live on this planet.
As I have other channels open to me for interesting debate rather than a car forum, I will now withdraw from all discussions on the subject of climate change. You can all believe what you like, as frankly it is not going to make any difference to how the world's leaders will act in our best interests on this matter. ;) ;)
Lizzie, I really don't understand you at all on this. You make a great play in the post, setting out your views and yet when I dare to contradict the theories you put forward, you don't argue the points rationally, but merely refuse to discuss it any more. Odd behaviour, I would suggest, given your interest in politics. :o
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
why would i care about the opinion of people who have time to watch gmtv in the morning? are they now to set the agenda for the rest of us?
Lizzie - you're right of course, but good luck with the deluded, blinkered and gullible - oh wait a second thats us and the vast majority of climate scientists, a lot of whom have dedicated their entire professional life to this science thats science, not guesswork, faith or opinion but science - you know, the "magical thinking" behind our entire lives?
but you'll still get the sceptics leaping on any dip in temperature - demonstrating their absolute ignorance of the facts - hell mend them i say - but wear a hard heat or your head will hurt on that brick wall you'll be hitting it against Liz
;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D How right you are Banjax ;) ;) ;)
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GMTV had an online poll recently asking the simple question "do you believe in global warming ?" the last time Ilooked it was 53% yes and 47% no,,so it isnt a matter of a few individuals being deniers by any means.
Personally I found it encouraging that approx half the population apparently arent easily conned. ;)
why would i care about the opinion of people who have time to watch gmtv in the morning? are they now to set the agenda for the rest of us?
Lizzie - you're right of course, but good luck with the deluded, blinkered and gullible - oh wait a second thats us and the vast majority of climate scientists, a lot of whom have dedicated their entire professional life to this science thats science, not guesswork, faith or opinion but science - you know, the "magical thinking" behind our entire lives?
but you'll still get the sceptics leaping on any dip in temperature - demonstrating their absolute ignorance of the facts - hell mend them i say - but wear a hard heat or your head will hurt on that brick wall you'll be hitting it against Liz
;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D How right you are Banjax ;) ;) ;)
Well, if you were both serious about this, surely you wouldn't be driving gas guzzlers? Or is it only for other people?
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Whatever you think of Nickbats view on this subject,there is no denying that he not only does his utmost to provide information to back up his opinion he also goes to the time and trouble to research the credentials of the people providing the information and post that up as well.
This in my opinion should mean that his posts on the subject (for those who are interested) should be given proper consiideration rather than the near hysterical reactions or simple "no,your wrong "answers we often see.
I havent seen anything like this level of detailed explanation from anyone on the other side of the fence,and considering that some of them have a reputation of being (pseudo?) intillectualls I do find it a tad surprising. ;)
I must admit that in my case, he is preaching to the converted though. :)
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Whatever you think of Nickbats vie2w on this subject,there is no denying that he not only does his utmost to provide information to back up his opinion he also goes to the time and trouble to research the credentials of the people providing the information and post that up as well.
This in my opinion should mean that his posts on the subject (for those who are inrested) should be given proper consiferation rather than the near hysterical reactions or simple "no,your wrong "answers we often see.
I havent seen anything like this level of detailed explanoation from anyone on the other side of the fence,.
I must admit that in my case, he is preaching to the converted though. :)
Dear me. Where do I start on this one? :-?
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
#
As I have stated before I cannot be bothered to discuss this subject anymore on the OOF as I know that you and others Nick, maybe for all the right reasons, are so convinced the governments of the world, and the scientific community, along with those "people like me" who watch, listen, read and learn about what is happening around us, are involved in some conspiracy to con the world's population over global climate change. Indeed I am sure you and others think I and others who believe this is very real are stupid and should be shouted down. Never forget the world's politicians have families as well and live on this planet.
As I have other channels open to me for interesting debate rather than a car forum, I will now withdraw from all discussions on the subject of climate change. You can all believe what you like, as frankly it is not going to make any difference to how the world's leaders will act in our best interests on this matter. ;) ;)
Lizzie, I really don't understand you at all on this. You make a great play in the post, setting out your views and yet when I dare to contradict the theories you put forward, you don't argue the points rationally, but merely refuse to discuss it any more. Odd behaviour, I would suggest, given your interest in politics. :o
It is not Nick when all I read at university, academic papers on the likes of JStor, the beliefs of the professors and doctors I encounter all believe global climate change is a very real problem, that is supported by the specialists they have academic contact with who have stated no-one has yet produced a paper for academic scrutiny to argue successfully against climatic change. This is in a uni where us political students and our lectures freely discuss some radical political alternatives, and do not usually except anything as being "as it is", with always the thought we could do things very differently. However, on climatic change we are all united. It is very real and must be tackled. ;) ;)
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I fixed them all just as you were going into pedantic mode steve. :P :P ;D
I did something to my pooter a while ago which means when I type posts the print is so small I cant read what Ive written.no idea how to fix it . :-[ ::) ;D
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Stop dodging the issue then, sell your omega.
And stop discussing stuff you promised not to discuss any more. ;D
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Good point. :y :y..................someone who seriously believes in the whole climate change theory and drives a v6 car which weighs the best part of 2 tonnes is a hypocrite imo.
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I haven't really made my mind up about the global warming issue yet.
Most of the stories I read about it seem to be based on statistical analysis rather than hard science. While I'm quite happy to accept the existence of the greenhouse effect (hard science), I've yet to see anything that establishes beyond doubt that the greenhouse effect is the cause of the perceived recent rise in global temperatures. Yes, there are correlations which can be derived from the data, but I'm not aware that the science has been done to establish that there is a causal relationship between the increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere and the prevailing temperature.
Such knowledge of maths as I have managed to retain since my university days indicates that this would, in fact, be well nigh impossible to prove, but I will readily concede that it may have been done - I don't keep up with the scientific journals, and rely on the press for my information.
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I haven't really made my mind up about the global warming issue yet.
Most of the stories I read about it seem to be based on statistical analysis rather than hard science. While I'm quite happy to accept the existence of the greenhouse effect (hard science), I've yet to see anything that establishes beyond doubt that the greenhouse effect is the cause of the perceived recent rise in global temperatures. Yes, there are correlations which can be derived from the data, but I'm not aware that the science has been done to establish that there is a causal relationship between the increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere and the prevailing temperature.
Such knowledge of maths as I have managed to retain since my university days indicates that this would, in fact, be well nigh impossible to prove, but I will readily concede that it may have been done - I don't keep up with the scientific journals, and rely on the press for my information.
Poor deluded fool ;D
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It was originally based on models which have since been very strongly ridiculed by some serious minds.The one thing these people have in common is that unlike Lizzies university lecturers etc, they are not dependant on government grants for their research and incomes so can be objective.
It would seem that it is very much a case of he who pays the piper calls the tune. The debacle at UEA recently being a classic example.
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
#
As I have stated before I cannot be bothered to discuss this subject anymore on the OOF as I know that you and others Nick, maybe for all the right reasons, are so convinced the governments of the world, and the scientific community, along with those "people like me" who watch, listen, read and learn about what is happening around us, are involved in some conspiracy to con the world's population over global climate change. Indeed I am sure you and others think I and others who believe this is very real are stupid and should be shouted down. Never forget the world's politicians have families as well and live on this planet.
As I have other channels open to me for interesting debate rather than a car forum, I will now withdraw from all discussions on the subject of climate change. You can all believe what you like, as frankly it is not going to make any difference to how the world's leaders will act in our best interests on this matter. ;) ;)
Lizzie, I really don't understand you at all on this. You make a great play in the post, setting out your views and yet when I dare to contradict the theories you put forward, you don't argue the points rationally, but merely refuse to discuss it any more. Odd behaviour, I would suggest, given your interest in politics. :o
It is not Nick when all I read at university, academic papers on the likes of JStor, the beliefs of the professors and doctors I encounter all believe global climate change is a very real problem, that is supported by the specialists they have academic contact with who have stated no-one has yet produced a paper for academic scrutiny to argue successfully against climatic change. This is in a uni where us political students and our lectures freely discuss some radical political alternatives, and do not usually except anything as being "as it is", with always the thought we could do things very differently. However, on climatic change we are all united. It is very real and must be tackled. ;) ;)
But, Lizzie, I just gave you a link to over 500 papers that have been peer-reviewed!
What do you say to that? :-?
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As I'm presently in a 'Northern Ireland' mood I'll refrain from issuing comment until I've composed myself. :-X
I need more prescription drugs. :D
Damnation – I was doing well today. :(
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As I'm presently in a 'Northern Ireland' mood I'll refrain from issuing comment until I've composed myself. :-X
I need more prescription drugs. :D
Damnation – I was doing well today. :(
If you have none, a bottle of scotch usually has the desired effect :y
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As I'm presently in a 'Northern Ireland' mood I'll refrain from issuing comment until I've composed myself. :-X
I need more prescription drugs. :D
Damnation – I was doing well today. :(
If you have none, a bottle of scotch usually has the desired effect :y
Thanks ST, I can't drink it following a massive session many years ago. To this day even the smell does for me. :( :(
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As I'm presently in a 'Northern Ireland' mood I'll refrain from issuing comment until I've composed myself. :-X
I need more prescription drugs. :D
Damnation – I was doing well today. :(
If you have none, a bottle of scotch usually has the desired effect :y
Thanks ST, I can't drink it following a massive session many years ago. To this day even the smell does for me. :( :(
That's amazing. When I was a stupid 13 year old, I drank the only stuff that was left after a party...a bottle of advocaat. Made myself very ill and to this day............ :-[
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The "climate" is over a billion years old and has cycled through some pretty large extremes, without man's intervention.
The thermometer is less than 450 years old (Galileo 1593)
Data collection, of any sort, is less than 200 years old
ACCURATE data collection is less than 50 years old
All the talk of warming or not are both different theories .. as the "proof" does not exist... the data from both sides is extrapolated, and any one with any knowledge of analysis will tell you of the dangers inherent in extrapolation .... it is from the misuse of this mathematical tool that the phrase
"Lies, damned lies and statistics"
is supposed to have come.
Unfortunately both sides pounce on any "scrap" of supposed "data" that appears to support their theory, which leaves 90% of folks confused and bewildered .. which has lead, IMHO, to the present apathy. add to that the general lack of trust of Government in general .. and it is easy to see how the present ideas that "global Warming" is a way of raising taxes has become the perception.
Remember .. perception and truth have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and the politicians are only after influencing "perception".
Cynical view I know .... :(
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As I'm presently in a 'Northern Ireland' mood I'll refrain from issuing comment until I've composed myself. :-X
I need more prescription drugs. :D
Damnation – I was doing well today. :(
If you have none, a bottle of scotch usually has the desired effect :y
Thanks ST, I can't drink it following a massive session many years ago. To this day even the smell does for me. :( :(
That's amazing. When I was a stupid 13 year old, I drank the only stuff that was left after a party...a bottle of advocaat. Made myself very ill and to this day............ :-[
Yep, also with gin and vodka - what the hell was I thinking then? :o :o
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Hello Endwood,Read your posting and could not fault you,you really hit the nail on the head.
there is NO PROOF of Global warming,this goverment are acting like scam mechants,tax us us to to death on a non extinctant threat.
Alfie.
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Hello Endwood,Read your posting and could not fault you,you really hit the nail on the head.
there is NO PROOF of Global warming,this goverment are acting like scam mechants,tax us us to to death on a non extinctant threat.
Alfie.
There is also NO PROOF that global warming is NOT taking place ... as I said .. 2 sides to every coin.. neither are proved in this case IMHO
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I hope to be ordering a book soon in which the author says that climate change was actually disproved once and for all in 2008,should make interesting reading.
If I come out of my oldtimers induced memory loss and actually remember his name I will edit the post and add it. :y ::)
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The "climate" is over a billion years old and has cycled through some pretty large extremes, without man's intervention.
The thermometer is less than 450 years old (Galileo 1593)
Data collection, of any sort, is less than 200 years old
ACCURATE data collection is less than 50 years old
All the talk of warming or not are both different theories .. as the "proof" does not exist... the data from both sides is extrapolated, and any one with any knowledge of analysis will tell you of the dangers inherent in extrapolation .... it is from the misuse of this mathematical tool that the phrase
"Lies, damned lies and statistics"
is supposed to have come.
Unfortunately both sides pounce on any "scrap" of supposed "data" that appears to support their theory, which leaves 90% of folks confused and bewildered .. which has lead, IMHO, to the present apathy. add to that the general lack of trust of Government in general .. and it is easy to see how the present ideas that "global Warming" is a way of raising taxes has become the perception.
Remember .. perception and truth have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and the politicians are only after influencing "perception".
Cynical view I know .... :(
Absolutely! Couldn't have put it better myself. :) In fact, didn't put it better myself. :(
Not in anyway cynical. What we have been presented with is a scientific discussion led by politicians instead of scientists. Can't see the wood for the trees, if you ask me. :(
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The "climate" is over a billion years old and has cycled through some pretty large extremes, without man's intervention.
The thermometer is less than 450 years old (Galileo 1593)
Data collection, of any sort, is less than 200 years old
ACCURATE data collection is less than 50 years old
All the talk of warming or not are both different theories .. as the "proof" does not exist... the data from both sides is extrapolated, and any one with any knowledge of analysis will tell you of the dangers inherent in extrapolation .... it is from the misuse of this mathematical tool that the phrase
"Lies, damned lies and statistics"
is supposed to have come.
Unfortunately both sides pounce on any "scrap" of supposed "data" that appears to support their theory, which leaves 90% of folks confused and bewildered .. which has lead, IMHO, to the present apathy. add to that the general lack of trust of Government in general .. and it is easy to see how the present ideas that "global Warming" is a way of raising taxes has become the perception.
Remember .. perception and truth have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and the politicians are only after influencing "perception".
Cynical view I know .... :(
I think that's the guys down the pub you're talking about there.
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Sad as it may appear to some, I am a paid up member of the DILLIGAF club as regards global warming and side with the member who commented that, when its upto his knees, he will be concerned.
I know thats not really the way to look at things, most times, but, frankly, I feel its been done to death and I glady watch from the sidelines before throwing my cap in any direction whatsoever....
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began. There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world. For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F. India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.
The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change. Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming. That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies. The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation. It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution? I think not! ;) ;)
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I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?
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never seen such a hot winter.. :-?
people may believe whatever they want, but its very obvious weather is not the same as before.. :-/
today , january 7-8 (passed 24 here) and lunch time it was like spring 10-12 Celcius .. :o
and definitely no snow here :-?
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Make no mistake our, and the world's climate is going through a dramatic change for whatever reason!
The average temperatures over the last ten years for the UK HAVE risen to the highest levels since records began. There HAVE been strange climatic events from severe rain falls in the UK to the current freeze across the world. For instance I left Florida the other day facing below freezing temperatures when the usual average for this time of the year is +73 degrees F. India and China have suffered very unusual freezing conditions, whilst Austrailia has suffered from very unusual extremes of weather patterns over the last 3 years.
The reasons can be debated, disputed and rubbished as much as people want to, but do not ignore the FACT that the world's weather IS undergoing highly unusual change. Human beings are suffering from this change, including the inhabitants of thousands of Pacific islands who are witnessing rising sea levels that threaten their very existance NOW as we speak.
Just because we in the UK are currently experiencing an extreme period of freezing conditions does not 'rubbish' any idea of global warming. That is a fact, and has nothing to do with our current government no matter what you think about their general policies. The world's governments and the vast majority of the scientific community are in full agreement that the global climate is going through dramatic change and we, the human race, must do everything in our power to help relieve the situation. It may be too late already and out of our hands........time will tell...........but is "doing nothing" a real and sensible solution? I think not! ;) ;)
I entirely agree, while we do not have enough information to determine exactly what the causes are, change to global climate is happening IN PART due to carbon emissions, in particular for example, the inability of ocean shelled creatures to properly form their shells. (http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=7545&tid=282&cid=63809&ct=162).
I take the view that a prudent person takes an umbrella if it might rain, if it rains, he's covered, if it doesn't, no big deal.
Similarly with climate change, if we take precautions now, it might prolong life on this planet, (it is doomed eventually in any case), but if we do nothing, and climate change continues, we will be too late to do anything once we pass the point of no return, whenever that occurs.
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I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?
do you generally understand everything from backwards ;D
who said or claim that.. :-?
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do Marx tell nations to make babies like rabbits and increase in billions so that world sources become completely depleted..
or does he tell, use all fossil fuels and damage the world athmosphere..
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I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?
Marx was not promoting poverty, but aiming at achieving a society where the 'richness' of individuals was in enjoying their creative freedom, away from the allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others. In Marxism no one would be poor, no one rich, but everyone experiencing life to the full with their labours fairly rewarded. What is wrong with that in theory? Well only the problem with human nature! ;) ;)
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I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?
Marx was not promoting poverty, but aiming at achieving a society where the 'richness' of individuals was in enjoying their creative freedom, away from the allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others. In Marxism no one would be poor, no one rich, but everyone experiencing life to the full with their labours fairly rewarded. What is wrong with that in theory? Well only the problem with human nature! ;) ;)
good brief Lizzie :y
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I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK. :)
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I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK. :)
Agreed. Capitalist countries have the cleanest environments, the highest life expectancy and the lowest birth rates. Go figure, as they say in the States.
:y
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I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK. :)
As I stated Albs, which surely you already know, human nature is the problem, and those countries you mention never had a true Marxist state, but a corrupted Communism ruled by dictators ;) ;).
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I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK. :)
As I stated Albs, which surely you already know, human nature is the problem, and those countries you mention never had a true Marxist state, but a corrupted Communism ruled by dictators ;) ;).
..and your solution to that "problem" would be? :-X
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Andrew Neill (I'm getting to like him! :y) completely trounces the super-paid dullard head of the Met Office. A must-see from the "Daily Politics" show. :y :y
http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/?p=2746
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If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo. ;) ;) ;)
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If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo. ;) ;) ;)
is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.
hey i didn't go off topic first ;D :y
just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves, airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more ;D ;D
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If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo. ;) ;) ;)
is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.
hey i didn't go off topic first ;D :y
just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves, airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more ;D ;D
Sell your subaru.
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If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo. ;) ;) ;)
is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.
hey i didn't go off topic first ;D :y
just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves, airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more ;D ;D
Sell your subaru.
;D
do I have to sell my miggy.. ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
so dont let me started how they do it..
you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis ;D
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From Albs..
"If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was."
doesnt prove anything about Marx..
"So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time."
what makes me really surprised is that the workers also talk with the words of boss.. ;D
dont understand why such a civilised and cultured people are desperate for future :-/
"Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo"
thats a psychological war lie from CIA.. and dont expect everyone to believe it..
the "human nature" what you are talking about make the medicines that cure you, find the electricity and bring technology..
There may be many that sell their souls for a little, but they cant stop the good one.. History proved that..
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;D
do I have to sell my miggy.. ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
so dont let me started how they do it..
you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
Hi cem 8-)
Western interests - being far from perfect and caring - without doubt exploited those in less well developed nations.
..............so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so.
The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma. They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade.
Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining.
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Master and servant....basic human nature.
-
;D
do I have to sell my miggy.. ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
so dont let me started how they do it..
you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
Hi cem 8-)
Western interests - being far from perfect and caring - without doubt exploited those in less well developed nations.
..............so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so.
The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma. They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade.
Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining.
Hi Zulu :y
being not that fast in your language , need some time to answer, so I'll reply as soon as possible ;D :y
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Master and servant....basic human nature.
we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..
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Master and servant....basic human nature.
we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..[/quote]
Ha! Not while humans have got a hole in their arse ;D
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Master and servant....basic human nature.
we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..[/quote]
Ha! Not while humans have got a hole in their arse ;D
;D ;D ;D :y
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If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo. ;) ;) ;)
is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again)unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.
hey i didn't go off topic first ;D :y
just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves, airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more ;D ;D
Hello bj 8-)
is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)?
We'll be hearing that one for some time no doubt.
Far from the altruistic act generally touted as being the motivator behind this perhaps the rather more pedestrian reason for various nations having a collective bout of ass covering in a - quite possibly - vain attempt to shore up their economies so exposed by globalisation, is the more reasonable to consider.
The taxpayers in question of course were, for the most part, dyed in the wool capitalists, living within that system and prospering - even in a modest way - from it - so they should be more than pleased to support it.
i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
That’s one of the reasons I continue to rate you contributions. :y
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves, airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more
...of course the labours of all the scientists and engineers involved in making the world a better place in the ways you describe were and are working in an environment where the fruits of their labour are readily quantifiable.
The main issue with those scientists presently pushing the AGW theory is that the end result of their investigations can't be so quantified, and in this case theory seems to have become the main driver and sustainer for their continued efforts to find sound equation to make that theory work.
This is a volatile division of science where, depending on the source of funding and the ethics of those involved, the results of such research are being seized upon by those who seem determined to change the world at all costs.
Science had prostituted itself on the street corner of funding, celebrity, greed and misplaced, naive idealism.
On the practical front it's laughable when one listens to the serious proposals being made by various bodies who are suggesting that the global temperature can be limited to a certain figure (2 degrees) seems the most popular at the moment, when the global weather can’t be controlled to lessen the effect of a modest snowfall experienced in this country over the recent past.
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from Zulu :y
"so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so."
those governments start to loose one by one.. look in south America.. even the mighty CIA cant stop..
and they started the job first by kicking the arse of IMF ;D
"The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma. They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade."
I see the point, those systems being far from ideal examples and started the life under the pressure of western capitalism (dont neglect that point, very important) but cleaning capitalism roots from the elite even in those systems not that easy.. :-/
"Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining."
Cuba , imho is really a better socialist example staying alive behind the arse of USA as a sharp needle ;D
they live under a very heavy embargo , defetaed many problems with US and and succeeded to solve many of their problems starting with health..
in addition to the things I mentioned above , I wanted to give an example for the desperate ,
a hundred years ago, a day for the worker was 16 hours and now is 8.. who achieved this ? ;D
and they let only children to work in their factories.. >:(
things change, if some lazy arses wake up and fight.. ;D
ps: lunch break ! , need to take one friend for a distant place , see you..
-
;D
do I have to sell my miggy.. ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
so dont let me started how they do it..
you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis ;D
seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..
Hi cem 8-)
Western interests - being far from perfect and caring - without doubt exploited those in less well developed nations.
..............so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so.
The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma. They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade.
Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining.
Hi Zulu :y
being not that fast in your language , need some time to answer, so I'll reply as soon as possible ;D :y
Forgive me cem, I'll wait your reply with interest - as I always do 8-) :y :y
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Taken at 9.30 this morning.
Anybody have lower temp than this? 8-) 8-)
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq119/drooscott/Image020.jpg
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we got -10.1 at around 7am, which is the coldest it got here.
coldest ive ever seen here.
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Taken at 9.30 this morning.
Anybody have lower temp than this? 8-) 8-)
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq119/drooscott/Image020.jpg
Oh dear-Lord! :o
......just a (relatively) balmy -16C. here at 7 a.m. 8-)
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Taken at 9.30 this morning.
Anybody have lower temp than this? 8-) 8-)
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq119/drooscott/Image020.jpg
Oh dear-Lord! :o
......just a (relatively) balmy -16C. here at 7 a.m. 8-)
Time to take the water out of the anti-freeze?
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I dont really care what any sciebtist or politician wants to tell us all regarding their theories on this or any other subject.The big problem for us "ordinary people" is the fact that they are using this as an excuse to raise all sorts of taxes to ludicrous levels and freely admit that this process is going to accellerate. Current and predicted gas/electric/petrol prices probably being the more obvious examples.
Now they are planning to give countless bilions to less wealthy countries to supposedly reduce their carbon footprints, which of course means we will have to pay even more ridiculous levels of taxation, where and when is it ever going to stop ?
Possibly when the Marxist Utopia is achieved and everyone in the world is equally poor ?
Marx was not promoting poverty, but aiming at achieving a society where the 'richness' of individuals was in enjoying their creative freedom, away from the allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others. In Marxism no one would be poor, no one rich, but everyone experiencing life to the full with their labours fairly rewarded. What is wrong with that in theory? Well only the problem with human nature! ;) ;)
Well only the problem with human nature!
Indeed so Ms Z
allienating capitalist system which chained them to endless demands on their bodies and souls to produce monetary gain for others
To be replaced by an equally captive bond to the very system that was supposed to offer freedom and equality - a system that was subsequently found to be dictatorial, exploitive and laden with its own corps of elite who enjoyed an experience far removed from that of the ordinary citizen.
Marxism simply highlighted the fundamental and irreconcilable difference between theory and the harsh realisation of practice and afforded some of the most exploitive dictators in recent history a springboard to practice their dark arts.
As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
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To keep refering Nick to soundbites, blogs, internet entries, etc, by various people who like to disagree with real, validated global science does not offer a meaningful argument against the FACT that our weather has changed over the last 100 years (a clue to human activity?) and is speeding towards further dramatic development.
At Canterbury University this subject has naturally been discussed, and none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level. But I suppose you Nick will rubbish that as well!
But I suppose the dinosaurs couldn't accept massive change was on the way, and suddenly they were gone!
PS And to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504
;) ;)
"...none of these counter arguments by so called knowledgeable individuals have had their papers on the subject supported by the scientific or academic community, at true expert level."
Here are 500 papers...enough for you?
http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/10/peer-reviewed-papers-supporting.html
"...to prove anyone can use the internet to 'prove' their argument please see the following on the Pacific Island threat:
http://www.japanfocus.org/-Andre-Vltchek/2504"
I quote from Morner, who is arguably the foremost scientist on sea levels and you counter by saying anyone can use the internet prove something and go on to link to an interview with someone called Espen Ronneberg - "Climate Change Adviser" for the Secretariat of the Pacific Regional Environment Programme (SPREP). ;D ;D ;D
Lizzie, what's become of you? :o :o
#
As I have stated before I cannot be bothered to discuss this subject anymore on the OOF as I know that you and others Nick, maybe for all the right reasons, are so convinced the governments of the world, and the scientific community, along with those "people like me" who watch, listen, read and learn about what is happening around us, are involved in some conspiracy to con the world's population over global climate change. Indeed I am sure you and others think I and others who believe this is very real are stupid and should be shouted down. Never forget the world's politicians have families as well and live on this planet.
As I have other channels open to me for interesting debate rather than a car forum, I will now withdraw from all discussions on the subject of climate change. You can all believe what you like, as frankly it is not going to make any difference to how the world's leaders will act in our best interests on this matter. ;) ;)
Lizzie, I really don't understand you at all on this. You make a great play in the post, setting out your views and yet when I dare to contradict the theories you put forward, you don't argue the points rationally, but merely refuse to discuss it any more. Odd behaviour, I would suggest, given your interest in politics. :o
It is not Nick when all I read at university, academic papers on the likes of JStor, the beliefs of the professors and doctors I encounter all believe global climate change is a very real problem, that is supported by the specialists they have academic contact with who have stated no-one has yet produced a paper for academic scrutiny to argue successfully against climatic change. This is in a uni where us political students and our lectures freely discuss some radical political alternatives, and do not usually except anything as being "as it is", with always the thought we could do things very differently. However, on climatic change we are all united. It is very real and must be tackled. ;) ;)
Academia is seldom the place to visit in the search for the real world application of so many these theories loftily discussed within those well insulated portals Ms Z.
I do however agree with you, and those very academics it seems that there is evidence of climate change. I would differ on the causational factors however favouring the non Co2 lobby.
The imperative should therefore be placed in preserving the globe's remaining resources and improving our stewardship of the environment - it's the only one we have after all.
The provision of sufficient levels of food and potable water should concern us more that the apparent excess of C02 in the atmosphere and its alleged drawbacks and of course the astronomical cost of the unrealistic proposals to 'rectify' it.
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As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
-
As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process
...a legtitimate and valid concern J.
-
As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process
...a legtitimate and valid concern J.
Or is it really? Two of my learned lecturers are taking six months off this year to write additional books as they have been given £7,000 each by our university to carry out research in their discipline, without restriction on how they do! In addition all the professors and doctors I know write their books and paper completely independently from uni dictate.
As for lecturers "towing the university line", I can assure all that mine certainly do not and are very free speaking during their academic teaching, with a mixture of Marxist, capitalist, Hobbesian, Machiavellian, liberal, free market, etc, view points, and no hint of trying to manipulate our beliefs, with fair exposure of the weaknesses that exist with all ideologies. They are also very open with their criticism of uni politics and administrative procedures. 8-) 8-) 8-) ;) ;)
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Sad as it may appear to some, I am a paid up member of the DILLIGAF club as regards global warming and side with the member who commented that, when its upto his knees, he will be concerned.
I know thats not really the way to look at things, most times, but, frankly, I feel its been done to death and I glady watch from the sidelines before throwing my cap in any direction whatsoever....
I would entreaty you to rescind that membership B :y
The proposals to 'deal' with C02 based climate change – if that is the reason for the change - will fundamentally alter the way we will be able to conduct our personal business should they be implemented in full.
Our movements will be curtailed by way of road use levies and punitive taxation placed on personal transport to discourage use.
Our energy use will be monitored and curtailed if necessary by forcing the use of 'smart' electricity meters onto subscribers who will not only have to pay for their installation and maintenance through additional charges, but also by way of increased tariffs to discourage the use of energy at certain times.
Waste output will be monitored of course with the likelihood of additional charges should a certain allowance be breached.
Personal carbon credits will force everyone to monitor their carbon output and where the allowance is exceeded, oblige us to purchase more to remain within the regulations.
The state will increase its ability to hold data on each and every citizen to ensure their compliance with legislation.
Vast sums of the nation's fiscal holdings will be diverted to a fund intended to assist third world countries deal with the effects of climate change, with all the potential opportunity for abuse that that holds.
No, in my view this debate about climate change is less about the health of the planet but more about the fundamental manner in which our individual way of life will be changed to accommodate the questionable motives of those advocating the need for such change based on the Co2 model presently being sold as the only motivator for this change.
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As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process
...a legtitimate and valid concern J.
Or is it really? Two of my learned lecturers are taking six months off this year to write additional books as they have been given £7,000 each by our university to carry out research in their discipline, without restriction on how they do! In addition all the professors and doctors I know write their books and paper completely independently from uni dictate.
As for lecturers "towing the university line", I can assure all that mine certainly do not and are very free speaking during their academic teaching, with a mixture of Marxist, capitalist, Hobbesian, Machiavellian, liberal, free market, etc, view points, and no hint of trying to manipulate our beliefs, with fair exposure of the weaknesses that exist with all ideologies. They are also very open with their criticism of uni politics and administrative procedures. 8-) 8-) 8-) ;) ;)
You are fortunate indeed Ms Z to associate with such free-spirited and independent individuals, however can this be said about all the learned members of the many other academic instituations within this land? :-/ :-/
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As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process
...a legtitimate and valid concern J.
Or is it really? Two of my learned lecturers are taking six months off this year to write additional books as they have been given £7,000 each by our university to carry out research in their discipline, without restriction on how they do! In addition all the professors and doctors I know write their books and paper completely independently from uni dictate.
As for lecturers "towing the university line", I can assure all that mine certainly do not and are very free speaking during their academic teaching, with a mixture of Marxist, capitalist, Hobbesian, Machiavellian, liberal, free market, etc, view points, and no hint of trying to manipulate our beliefs, with fair exposure of the weaknesses that exist with all ideologies. They are also very open with their criticism of uni politics and administrative procedures. 8-) 8-) 8-) ;) ;)
You are fortunate indeed Ms Z to associate with such free-spirited and independent individuals, however can this be said about all the learned members of the many other academic instituations within this land? :-/ :-/
Hmmm.......I could learn from you Zulu. ;D ;D ;D
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As long as there's 'human nature' to be considered in the equation then the lofty ideals of Marx and others will remain an unachievable goal.
This is the fundamental flaw with any form of socialism - it relies on the next man behaving as well as you do.
And another thing - someone in an earlier post - Banjax, I think - was equating global warming scepticism with an anti-science attitude. This is wrong. As a former science student and mathematician (although I never earned my living as a scientist) I can assure you that the doubts I have about the global warming bandwagon have absolutely nothing to do with value of science to society.
The information being made available to the public is incomplete and unconvincing. Most of the Great British Public (including me) aren't qualified to understand all the theory and data that is available to the climate scientists. But some of do know enough to recognise that we aren't getting "good science" shown to us. Statistical analysis is insufficient to "prove" the theory while the quantity and quality of the data being analysed is not standardised and is, in any case, changing daily.
Such analysis can be valid when used retrospectively on a fixed data set, but I, for one, will remain sceptical when every new survey carried out changes the model and the theory. And for that matter, climate science isn't the only area I am concerned about. Epidemiology seems to be going the same way. Half of us are supposed to be in bed with swine flu at the moment, instead of sitting here moaning about the weather. I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process.
I suspect that university funding problems are ultimately putting pressure on academics to publish whether they are ready or not, and the same pressure (do I disagree or do I keep my job?) may be affecting the peer review process
...a legtitimate and valid concern J.
Or is it really? Two of my learned lecturers are taking six months off this year to write additional books as they have been given £7,000 each by our university to carry out research in their discipline, without restriction on how they do! In addition all the professors and doctors I know write their books and paper completely independently from uni dictate.
As for lecturers "towing the university line", I can assure all that mine certainly do not and are very free speaking during their academic teaching, with a mixture of Marxist, capitalist, Hobbesian, Machiavellian, liberal, free market, etc, view points, and no hint of trying to manipulate our beliefs, with fair exposure of the weaknesses that exist with all ideologies. They are also very open with their criticism of uni politics and administrative procedures. 8-) 8-) 8-) ;) ;)
I really wasn't trying to cast aspersions on the entire academic community. But this is nothing new - may I refer you to the works of C.P. Snow, which I read in the 1960s and can't remember much about now? "Office politics" has always been rife in academia, and the pressure to publish has always existed - look at what happened to Darwin with his On the Origin of Species.
The fact that some peer reviews may effectively just be rubber stamps does not invalidate the entire field of academic research, any more than does the fact that Professor X may not perhaps cite every conceivable reference in his eagerness to see his paper in Nature in place of Professor Y's equally meritorious effort on a similar theme.
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from Zulu :y
"so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so."
those governments start to loose one by one.. look in south America.. even the mighty CIA cant stop..
and they started the job first by kicking the arse of IMF ;D
"The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma. They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade."
I see the point, those systems being far from ideal examples and started the life under the pressure of western capitalism (dont neglect that point, very important) but cleaning capitalism roots from the elite even in those systems not that easy.. :-/
"Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining."
Cuba , imho is really a better socialist example staying alive behind the arse of USA as a sharp needle ;D
they live under a very heavy embargo , defetaed many problems with US and and succeeded to solve many of their problems starting with health..
in addition to the things I mentioned above , I wanted to give an example for the desperate ,
a hundred years ago, a day for the worker was 16 hours and now is 8.. who achieved this ? ;D
and they let only children to work in their factories.. >:(
things change, if some lazy arses wake up and fight.. ;D
ps: lunch break ! , need to take one friend for a distant place , see you..
those governments start to loose one by one.. look in south America.. even the mighty CIA cant stop..
Where dictatorial rule seems to be preferred methodology. :(
I see the point, those systems being far from ideal examples and started the life under the pressure of western capitalism (dont neglect that point, very important) but cleaning capitalism roots from the elite even in those systems not that easy..
You can say that again cem, greed will always be greed irrespective of the system in question. :y
[b]Cuba , imho is really a better socialist example staying alive behind the arse of USA as a sharp needle ;D
they live under a very heavy embargo , defetaed many problems with US and and succeeded to solve many of their problems starting with health[/b]
I certainly agree with you cem that that successive US administrations have been wrong to continue the very shortsighted policy of this trade embargo.
The question must be asked however, if the system based on the communist model in general and as practised within Cuba in particular is so wholesome, why are there so many people keen to leave and seek their respective fortunes elsewhere?
Cuba would have prospered to a much greater extent under a far-seeing leadership and freed from its recent incumbents.
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I thought I understood "thread drift" .... it's a bit like "Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift" .... but this thread has beaten all records I think ..
Global Warming to Marxism to Communism to Academia to CIA Conspiracies
WOW :)
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I thought I understood "thread drift" .... it's a bit like "Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift" .... but this thread has beaten all records I think ..
Global Warming to Marxism to Communism to Academia to CIA Conspiracies
WOW :)
;D ;D It has been quite impressive, no doubt :y
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I thought I understood "thread drift" .... it's a bit like "Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift" .... but this thread has beaten all records I think ..
Global Warming to Marxism to Communism to Academia to CIA Conspiracies
WOW :)
;D ;D It has been quite impressive, no doubt :y
Yes! 8-) 8-) I think we have exceeded all expectations! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
........and Alfie stated such a straightforward observation..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What I absolutely hate is this, if say a winter out of the blue in any country happen or a blazing hot summer, it's blamed on 'climate change' they spend lots of time telling us what they call fact but never actually show any of these facts off. It's one hell of an easy way to make money, we used to have snowy winters sometimes but not all the time, this was before it was seen as a money making oppertunity now it's blamed on climate change.
If we have a hot summer which is record breaking, this is blamed on climate change, what about when records were broken about 20 or so years ago was it made such a fuss of then.. no. Personally I don't believe a word of what environmentalists say, you'll always have 2 sides to this argument people who believe and people who don't, the truth of the fact is everyone that believes won't even be here to see if they believed correctly anyway, nor will people who didn't believe in it.
Governments (not just ours) say that we should be doing a hell of a lot to change 'climate change', yet they continue to drive around in Range Rovers, Big Jag's and lots of other high Co2 producing cars yet we get crippled with huge tax bills and if we don't pay them we can't use the car, do the government people get this no they continue to drive around in these large cars but they're telling us we have to change. It's hardly about climate change at all it's governments trying there best to control everyone in their country! No one is in the wrong for believing what they believe but I totally agree with NickBat on this issue that it's a load of old shi* if I'm wrong then I'm never going to know nor is anyone else that I know so why should it matter so much to everyone?
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Sorry LSG .. but that is NOT allowed .... an "on topic" post after all this time ... you've just confused the hell out of me !!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sorry LSG .. but that is NOT allowed .... an "on topic" post after all this time ... you've just confused the hell out of me !!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I confused the hell out of myself posting all that stuff.
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Sorry LSG .. but that is NOT allowed .... an "on topic" post after all this time ... you've just confused the hell out of me !!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I confused the hell out of myself posting all that stuff.
You drive a planet killer!!!! ::) ;D
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Less environmental impact than a 3.0 Omega :)
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Less environmental impact than a 3.0 Omega :)
Agreed. But a jumbo jet has less environmental impact than an omega. ;D
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Less environmental impact than a 3.0 Omega :)
Agreed. But a jumbo jet has less environmental impact than an omega. ;D
;D ;D
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I thought I understood "thread drift" .... it's a bit like "Gulf Stream/North Atlantic Drift" .... but this thread has beaten all records I think ..
Global Warming to Marxism to Communism to Academia to CIA Conspiracies
WOW :)
;D :y
not me, the first drift started with Albs ;D :y
then me ;D then Lizzie and Zulu and so on ;D :y
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Wasnt me.A big boy did it and then ran away. :P :D ;D
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Anyway, it didn't really happen.
Drift denial? No idea what you're talking about!
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Anyway, it didn't really happen.
Drift denial? No idea what you're talking about!
;D ;D
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good god,seven pages. I can't read them all,I've just got in from work. I should of got in earlier,but having lost for a short while my house/car keys plus 2 mobile phones in the snow,after pushing a driver off the ice. I fell several times (don't you anybody be laughing at the back there) so at this point without realising,the keys and phones had dropped out I went back to the vehicle I was driving,and carried on my shift.
Anyway,back to the topic. It's been noted,that 115 billion tonnes of CO2 is in the atmosphere per year. 30 billion of that is due to human activity. If my sums are correct,that works out as only 3.33% is only produced by humans. But the issue of the coral reef acidification,is truly sad
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good god,seven pages. I can't read them all,I've just got in from work. I should of got in earlier,but having lost for a short while my house/car keys plus 2 mobile phones in the snow,after pushing a driver off the ice. I fell several times (don't you anybody be laughing at the back there) so at this point without realising,the keys and phones had dropped out I went back to the vehicle I was driving,and carried on my shift.
Anyway,back to the topic. It's been noted,that 115 billion tonnes of CO2 is in the atmosphere per year. 30 billion of that is due to human activity. If my sums are correct,that works out as only 3.33% is only produced by humans. But the issue of the coral reef acidification,is truly sad
Looks like we have a real climate scientist joining in! Unreferenced numerical data and unreliable maths. :) :) :)
Don't worry - not getting at you in any way - just trying to reinforce my point of view. :) :) :)
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Wow,This must be a record posting for a newbie.
All I wanted to do was remark that global warming had dissappeared,and now we had entered a new ice age.
Keep warm and safe everyone,
Alfie.
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Wow,This must be a record posting for a newbie.
All I wanted to do was remark that global warming had dissappeared,and now we had entered a new ice age.
Keep warm and safe everyone,
Alfie.
:) ;D
you opened the doors of hell ;D
only joking..congrats :y
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good god,seven pages. I can't read them all,I've just got in from work. I should of got in earlier,but having lost for a short while my house/car keys plus 2 mobile phones in the snow,after pushing a driver off the ice. I fell several times (don't you anybody be laughing at the back there) so at this point without realising,the keys and phones had dropped out I went back to the vehicle I was driving,and carried on my shift.
Anyway,back to the topic. It's been noted,that 115 billion tonnes of CO2 is in the atmosphere per year. 30 billion of that is due to human activity. If my sums are correct,that works out as only 3.33% is only produced by humans. But the issue of the coral reef acidification,is truly sad
Looks like we have a real climate scientist joining in! Unreferenced numerical data and unreliable maths. :) :) :)
Don't worry - not getting at you in any way - just trying to reinforce my point of view. :) :) :)
Thank you J :y :y
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
You will :)
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
You will :)
Who will? :-/ :-/
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
You will :)
Who will? :-/ :-/
I will, maybe :-/ ;D
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
You will :)
Who will? :-/ :-/
I will, maybe :-/ ;D
Here :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8bRNs_bZE&feature=player_embedded[/media]
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This is turning into a competition. Who will get the last word on this thread? ::)
You will :)
Who will? :-/ :-/
I will, maybe :-/ ;D
I hope it is ST 8-) :y :y
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Well,I think that because I started it,the honour should fall to me to finish it.
That is unless some of the star contributors with all the facts and data object,and I will gratefully bow down to their greater knowledge on the subject.
Only joking,but thanks to everyone who posted and even read it.
I will have to chose my next posting very carefully I think,or then again why not find something just as controversialas this one.
Best regards to all
Alfie.
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Yes. ;D
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A fitting conclusion to an admirable thread :y :y
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A fitting conclusion to an admirable thread :y :y
agreed :y
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Bastards. Thought you wouldn't notice. ;D
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Bastards. Thought you wouldn't notice. ;D
Sorry ST ;D ;D
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Im not. :P :P :P
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old kids ;D
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old kids ;D
Yep, its all we've left to live for cem :( :( ;D ;D ;D
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Oh well, bedtime. I may get up in the wee (operative word) small hours though ;D
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Dont forget your tablets. :y :)
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0040 hrs hehehehehehehe ::) ::) ;D
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Having an early night then? Just finished my hot drink, so I'm off to bed for an hour or two. :)
Can't remember the last time I got a good night's sleep. Don't know whether to blame it on Global Warming or Gordon Brown.:(
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Having an early night then? Just finished my hot drink, so I'm off to bed for an hour or two. :)
Can't remember the last time I got a good night's sleep. Don't know whether to blame it on Global Warming or Gordon Brown.:(
In times of national crisis the default can only ever be - in this case - Gordon Brown :y :y
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Morning men. ;D
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Morning men. ;D
;D ;D ;D splendid, ST :y :y
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This one Cem ;D
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This one Cem ;D
Just beat me to it ST ;D ;D ;D
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This one Cem ;D
Just beat me to it ST ;D ;D ;D
Damn and blast. Thought you'd retired for the evening. ;D
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He's far too young to retire .. :)
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This one Cem ;D
Just beat me to it ST ;D ;D ;D
Damn and blast. Thought you'd retired for the evening. ;D
Na, I've been lurking, hoping for more photographs of girls bottoms to be posted :P :P :P ;D ;D :y
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You'll go blind old boy :o
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I must be part way there already ;D
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I thought this thread was finally dead.. ;D
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I thought this thread was finally dead.. ;D
You've just revived it cem ;D ;D
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Thought you'd done that ?
;) ;) ;) ;)
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Thought you'd done that ?
;) ;) ;) ;)
Damn! - the space/time paradox :D :D ;D
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I start to think this thread become too sticky .. ;D
good night all :) :y
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I start to think this thread become too sticky .. ;D
good night all :) :y
.........and a very goodnight to you cem :y
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So is now a good time to ask what happened?
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No
:)
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I could, if I was so inclined, give this thread a turbo boost with an interesting link, such as
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/10/un-ipcc-chief-pachauri-under-fire-in-india-for-conflicts-of-interest/
...but perish the thought! ;) ;D ;D
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I thought you said an interesting link ... :-/ :-/ :-/
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I thought you said an interesting link ... :-/ :-/ :-/
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The head of the UN IPCC (upon which all governments seem to base their climate policies) allegedly has conflicting interests.
Yeah, non-story. ::) ::)
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Morning men, again ;D
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Good morning to you and all other oofers
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I could, if I was so inclined, give this thread a turbo boost with an interesting link, such as
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/10/un-ipcc-chief-pachauri-under-fire-in-india-for-conflicts-of-interest/
...but perish the thought! ;) ;D ;D
It is indeed an interesting link Nick that warrants attention as however doubtful the bona fides of those such as Pachauri now appear to be, we can be sure that there are those in our own legislature who will choose to 'plough' on regardless.
Meanwhile, those unmitigated fools, aka Members of Parliament, on the environmental audit committee have urged the UK Government to cut emissions more quickly at home – to prove to other countries Britain was serious about backing up its attempts to get an international agreement [on global warming] with action.
Read more;
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-laughed.html
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I could, if I was so inclined, give this thread a turbo boost with an interesting link, such as
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/10/un-ipcc-chief-pachauri-under-fire-in-india-for-conflicts-of-interest/
...but perish the thought! ;) ;D ;D
It is indeed an interesting link Nick that warrants attention as however doubtful the bona fides of those such as Pachauri now appear to be we, can be sure that there are those in our own legislature who will choose to 'plough' on regardless.
Meanwhile, those unmitigated fools, aka Members of Parliament, on the environmental audit committee have urged the UK Government to cut emissions more quickly at home – to prove to other countries Britain was serious about backing up its attempts to get an international agreement [on global warming] with action.
Read more;
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-laughed.html
Dear Lord, is there no end to this madness?
:( :(
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seemingly not ;)
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I could, if I was so inclined, give this thread a turbo boost with an interesting link, such as
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/10/un-ipcc-chief-pachauri-under-fire-in-india-for-conflicts-of-interest/
...but perish the thought! ;) ;D ;D
It is indeed an interesting link Nick that warrants attention as however doubtful the bona fides of those such as Pachauri now appear to be we, can be sure that there are those in our own legislature who will choose to 'plough' on regardless.
Meanwhile, those unmitigated fools, aka Members of Parliament, on the environmental audit committee have urged the UK Government to cut emissions more quickly at home – to prove to other countries Britain was serious about backing up its attempts to get an international agreement [on global warming] with action.
Read more;
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/god-laughed.html
Dear Lord, is there no end to this madness?
:( :(
Apparently not, but aside from the bunker mentality of this stance the stated intention will have to be paid for in the form of taxes, levies and a fundamental change demanded in the way we all presently lead our lives - enforced by legislation.
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seemingly not ;)
Are you being naughty bj?
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oh I see, Nick was talking about the article....I thought he had gained a self awareness hitherto unseen ;)
my apologies :y
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excuse me if this is on an old thread Zulu - but who's the avatar? looks a bit like a pre-trout lips Meg Ryan?
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excuse me if this is on an old thread Zulu - but who's the avatar? looks a bit like a pre-trout lips Meg Ryan?
A bit wide of the mark bj, although the resemblance is there I must admit, this is of course the great mezzo-soprano Ann Sophie von Otter :-* :-* :-* :-* 8-) 8-) :y
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Otter-Anne-Sophie-von.htm
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oh I see, Nick was talking about the article....I thought he had gained a self awareness hitherto unseen ;)
my apologies :y
;D ;D I needed that wee chuckle :y
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excuse me if this is on an old thread Zulu - but who's the avatar? looks a bit like a pre-trout lips Meg Ryan?
A bit wide of the mark bj, although the resemblance is there I must admit, this is of course the great mezzo-soprano Ann Sophie von Otter :-* :-* :-* :-* 8-) 8-) :y
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Otter-Anne-Sophie-von.htm
of course it is!.......... :-? - thanks for the link :y
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excuse me if this is on an old thread Zulu - but who's the avatar? looks a bit like a pre-trout lips Meg Ryan?
A bit wide of the mark bj, although the resemblance is there I must admit, this is of course the great mezzo-soprano Ann Sophie von Otter :-* :-* :-* :-* 8-) 8-) :y
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Bio/Otter-Anne-Sophie-von.htm
of course it is!.......... :-? - thanks for the link :y
Always happy to oblige :y
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Sorry, chaps. I was quite happy to lay this thread to rest, but I just noticed an article in The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement.
Have a look at this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6981487.ece
Feel free to skip over the bit at the end about cricket - interesting, but not germane - but have a look at the comments from readers. Some of them have no relevance whatsoever to the original article; indeed, some of them seem to think the article says exactly the opposite of what it actually says.
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later. It's bad enough that we are constantly bombarded with the innacurate and biassed opinions of columnists and lobbyists, but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power. :( :( :(
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but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
OOF general discussion area. ;D
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Sorry, chaps. I was quite happy to lay this thread to rest, but I just noticed an article in The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement.
Have a look at this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6981487.ece
Feel free to skip over the bit at the end about cricket - interesting, but not germane - but have a look at the comments from readers. Some of them have no relevance whatsoever to the original article; indeed, some of them seem to think the article says exactly the opposite of what it actually says.
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later. It's bad enough that we are constantly bombarded with the innacurate and biassed opinions of columnists and lobbyists, but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power. :( :( :(
Indeed, columnists like Coren who write such things as "Global warming will in the end interfere with the ocean currents, knock out the Gulf Stream.." are certainly inaccurate.
;)
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Sorry, chaps. I was quite happy to lay this thread to rest, but I just noticed an article in The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement.
Have a look at this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6981487.ece
Feel free to skip over the bit at the end about cricket - interesting, but not germane - but have a look at the comments from readers. Some of them have no relevance whatsoever to the original article; indeed, some of them seem to think the article says exactly the opposite of what it actually says.
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later. It's bad enough that we are constantly bombarded with the innacurate and biassed opinions of columnists and lobbyists, but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power. :( :( :(
The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement
I tend to agree J - and I did brave my natural reticence of patronising yet another of Uncle Rupert's organs of truth and right thinking to read over the link you gave. An excessive piece which lost credibility by the intemperate language used by the author who is perhaps better directed to the cooking pots and satisfying atmosphere of the nation’s finer feeding establishments.
Mr Coren seems to be quite adept at the charming turn of phrase so in my view fits in quite well with the Newscorp.family;
Caution for strong language.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey
Digger would indeed be proud after all, controversy cooks up into the most delightful financial pie. :y
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later.
I’m almost with you on that J as I’m tired of having my senses assailed by the use of such tortured language so casually passed off as valid opinion. I would however be obliged to consider the issue of free speech before walking in step with you.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power.
I’m very happy to support you here J. Should there be a place on a higher plane to where we fetch up I’ll be only too pleased to join you to witness the balls-up being made by the mindless adults formed from this crop of currently uninspiring youths.
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Sorry, chaps. I was quite happy to lay this thread to rest, but I just noticed an article in The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement.
Have a look at this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6981487.ece
Feel free to skip over the bit at the end about cricket - interesting, but not germane - but have a look at the comments from readers. Some of them have no relevance whatsoever to the original article; indeed, some of them seem to think the article says exactly the opposite of what it actually says.
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later. It's bad enough that we are constantly bombarded with the innacurate and biassed opinions of columnists and lobbyists, but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power. :( :( :(
The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement
I tend to agree J - and I did brave my natural reticence of patronising yet another of Uncle Rupert's organs of truth and right thinking to read over the link you gave. An excessive piece which lost credibility by the intemperate language used by the author who is perhaps better directed to the cooking pots and satisfying atmosphere of the nation’s finer feeding establishments.
Mr Coren seems to be quite adept at the charming turn of phrase so in my view fits in quite well with the Newscorp.family;
Caution for strong language.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey
Digger would indeed be proud after all, controversy cooks up into the most delightful financial pie. :y
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later.
I’m almost with you on that J as I’m tired of having my senses assailed by the use of such tortured language so casually passed off as valid opinion. I would however be obliged to consider the issue of free speech before walking in step with you.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power.
I’m very happy to support you here J. Should there be a place on a higher plane to where we fetch up I’ll be only too pleased to join you to the witness the balls-up being made by the mindless adults formed from this crop of currently uninspiring youths.
We're doomed, Captain Mainwaring, doomed ;D
-
but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
OOF general discussion area. ;D
;D ;D ;D splendid, ST :y
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I pleased to see that there are at least some political leaders so concerned about the planet's parlous state that they're going out of their way to do something about it 8-) :y :y
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/11/cbsnews_investigates/main6084364.shtml
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Sorry, chaps. I was quite happy to lay this thread to rest, but I just noticed an article in The Times which is very close to my point of view. Unfortunately, it's by Giles Coren, who I find to be one of the most irritating men on the planet, but, for once, we're in agreement.
Have a look at this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/giles_coren/article6981487.ece
Feel free to skip over the bit at the end about cricket - interesting, but not germane - but have a look at the comments from readers. Some of them have no relevance whatsoever to the original article; indeed, some of them seem to think the article says exactly the opposite of what it actually says.
I'm beginning to think that this currently fashionable "have your say" culture has run its course and needs to be knocked on the head sooner rather than later. It's bad enough that we are constantly bombarded with the innacurate and biassed opinions of columnists and lobbyists, but now we're also being exposed to page after page of complete b*ll*cks from ignoramuses with no understanding of grammar or spelling, let alone style. It seems, now, that these buffoons are also lacking basic reading and comprehension skills. And, of course, the current repository of all human knowledge is perceived to be Wikipedia.
I'm very glad I'll be dead by the time today's teenagers come to power. :( :( :(
Indeed, columnists like Coren who write such things as "Global warming will in the end interfere with the ocean currents, knock out the Gulf Stream.." are certainly inaccurate.
;)
First of all, apologies for "innacurate" - can't think how that got past the Pedant Patrol.
The ocean current switches have certainly been proposed, and even featured in a disaster movie (The Day After Tomorrow, I think). I don't actually know how much validity the theory has, but I don't think it's significantly sillier than some of the other stuff doing the rounds at the moment.
The point that Coren was trying to make which supports my own point of view was that short-term weather anomalies have nothing whatsoever to do with long term climate change. And it was at one time believed that it was possible that Great Britain would get colder rather than warmer in the event of global warming.
Part of the observable public confusion arises from the fact that trying to identify the current prevailing theory/model is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. Whatever we punters quote can always be ridiculed by a scientist saying we are out of date. Even if you spend all your time with your nose in the learned journals, you aren't going to find out what's "current", because you aren't part of the network. >:(
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First of all, apologies for "innacurate" - can't think how that got past the Pedant Patrol.
The ocean current switches have certainly been proposed, and even featured in a disaster movie (The Day After Tomorrow, I think). I don't actually know how much validity the theory has, but I don't think it's significantly sillier than some of the other stuff doing the rounds at the moment.
The point that Coren was trying to make which supports my own point of view was that short-term weather anomalies have nothing whatsoever to do with long term climate change. And it was at one time believed that it was possible that Great Britain would get colder rather than warmer in the event of global warming.
Part of the observable public confusion arises from the fact that trying to identify the current prevailing theory/model is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. Whatever we punters quote can always be ridiculed by a scientist saying we are out of date. Even if you spend all your time with your nose in the learned journals, you aren't going to find out what's "current", because you aren't part of the network. >:(
I take your point about weather not being climate, Jereboim, (although the latter is an aggregate of the former). But what gets me about Coren is that he is clearly an AGW believer. During the latter parts of the 90s and early 00s, we were inundated by stories of "exceptional" temperatures and melting ice caps which spewed forth from believers' mouths. I find it ironic that, now the climate is cooler, they can't take people wondering what happened to all that warming. And yes, Mr Coren, there were plenty of people who said that temperatures would go higher because of CO2. For example, go to the Met Office website and you will see claims (from computer mopdels) that every region of the UK will have significantly higher average temperatures and summer maxima by 2050). Also, there was that chap (again from the Met Office, IIRC) who said, ten years ago, that winter snow would become a very rare event.
The point is that these Islington believers, in words of Corporal Jones, "Don't like it up 'em". Yes, it is amusingly ironic, even if Coren doesn't think so.
Oh, and just to tease you, Jereboim, you said "The ocean current switches have certainly been proposed, and even featured in a disaster movie (The Day After Tomorrow, I think)". King Kong featured in a disaster movie, but I'm sure not expecting to see a 200ft ape anytime soon.
;) ;) ;D ;D
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Thread locked ::) ;D
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Thread locked ::) ;D
Fair enough :y :y
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You can go off people you know ;D ;D
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No it isnt. :P ;D
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Good attempt .. always doomed to failure .. :)
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Good attempt .. always doomed to failure .. :)
Am inclined to agree with you E :y
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ADMINS - LOCTITE PLEASE - FFS !!!! :D :D ;D ;D ::) ::)
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ADMINS - LOCTITE PLEASE - FFS !!!! :D :D ;D ;D ::) ::)
Well said A. 8-) :y :y
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243 or 270 ?? :)
(methinks 270 is better suited .. :) )
http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/henkel_uke/hs.xsl/2831_UKE_HTML.htm?&countryCode=uke&BU=industrial&parentredDotUID=productfinder&redDotUID=productfinder¶m1=brandRedDotUID%3D0000000389|mode%3Dadvanced|x%3D0|y%3D135|keyword%3D270|pageIndex%3D0|action%3Dsearch|
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Which is the lesser of the two evils? :-/
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Which is the lesser of the two evils? :-/
Did you actually follow the link and read the "description" ? ...... :)
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I concede. I dont want the last word.
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Which is the lesser of the two evils? :-/
Did you actually follow the link and read the "description" ? ...... :)
;D ;D ;D I got in before the link went up, I agree with you completely - 270 it is :y
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I said ' I dont want the last word!'
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I said ' I dont want the last word!'
We heard you .. :)
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Sorry to shout.
-
Pardon ?? who said that ??
-
Pardon ?? who said that ??
I nearly fell for that one ;D ;D ;D
Oh wait a moment , I did :-[ :-[ :-[
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Thread unlocked ::)
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Just in time for the latest :y :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE&feature=related[/media]
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I cant get my head out of the windows. They are those silly plastic ones and they wont open wide enough. Oh well.
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But they are unlocked .. you said so ...... :)
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This is becoming tedious. ::) ;D
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This is becoming tedious. ::) ;D
Not if you maintain a positive attitude ST - is this thread 50% complete or 50% incomplete? :-/ :-/
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Stop this nonsense now. I refuse to listen to anyone except STMO123.
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Cheers Gordie :y
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Stop this nonsense now. I refuse to listen to anyone except STMO123.
Our nation will be therefore be saved 8-) 8-)
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Stop this nonsense now. I refuse to listen to anyone except STMO123.
Our nation will be therefore be saved 8-) 8-)
Gordon's gone!
Oh, if only. ;D
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Wake Up ... Wake Up .. It's time for your medicine sir ....
sorry nurse .. I was in Utopia dreaming that Gordon had gone ...
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Stop this nonsense now. I refuse to listen to anyone except STMO123.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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I thought it was early for zombie threads ;D ;D
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Wake Up ... Wake Up .. It's time for your medicine sir ....
sorry nurse .. I was in Utopia dreaming that Gordon had gone ...
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
The questions are, was he pushed or did he have a crisis of conscience and exactly what part did ST have in this very suspicious and distressing matter?
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I almost forgot about this ;D
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I'm glad that you didn't :y :y 8-)
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I'm glad that you didn't :y :y 8-)
SOD OFF YOU!! ;D ;D ;D
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I'm glad that you didn't :y :y 8-)
SOD OFF YOU!! ;D ;D ;D
I didn't mean it. Come back Zulu. ;D
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I'm glad that you didn't :y :y 8-)
SOD OFF YOU!! ;D ;D ;D
I didn't mean it. Come back Zulu. ;D
I tried to but the Forum broke ;D ;D
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Still arguing eh ... just when did you two get married ????
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Still arguing eh ... just when did you two get married ????
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Marriage? Well, it is a last word thing. :-/
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True .... :)
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Ho hum. :(
-
.
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Well said :y
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Agreed :)
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Agreed :)
I can certainly subscribe to that sentiment :y :y
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This thread is getting a bit thin. It needs an injection of climate scam to bring it back to full weight!
"So, to recap: in the course of a garbled phone conversation a scientist accidentally invents a problem that doesn’t exist. This gets reported as if gospel in an influential Warmist science magazine and repeated by a Warmist NGO, before being lent the full authority of the IPCC’s fourth assessment report which, as we know, can’t be wrong because it is vetted by around 2,500 scientists. Then, on the back of this untrue story, the scientist gets a cushy job at the institution whose director is also in charge of the IPCC.
Nice work if you can invent it, eh?"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100022694/syed-hasnain-rk-pachauri-and-the-mystery-of-the-non-disappearing-glaciers/
;) ;D
-
Did I just spot an injection of "on topic-ness" into this thread .. :)
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This thread is getting a bit thin. It needs an injection of climate scam to bring it back to full weight!
"So, to recap: in the course of a garbled phone conversation a scientist accidentally invents a problem that doesn’t exist. This gets reported as if gospel in an influential Warmist science magazine and repeated by a Warmist NGO, before being lent the full authority of the IPCC’s fourth assessment report which, as we know, can’t be wrong because it is vetted by around 2,500 scientists. Then, on the back of this untrue story, the scientist gets a cushy job at the institution whose director is also in charge of the IPCC.
Nice work if you can invent it, eh?"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100022694/syed-hasnain-rk-pachauri-and-the-mystery-of-the-non-disappearing-glaciers/
;) ;D
Indeed, errors, mis-speak and sheer incompetence seem to be the required norm for a lot of these so called ‘experts’
[b]A BBC weather forecaster has suggested that the Met Office's super-computer has a 'warm bias' which has stopped it predicting bitterly cold spells like the one we have just endured.
Paul Hudson said the error may have crept into the computer's climate model as a result of successive years of milder weather[/b]
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1243846/Met-Office-accused-warm-bias-BBC-weatherman.html#ixzz0d0bkMKXv
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Yes, indeed, Zulu.
It would appear that the BBC has put its weather forecasting out to tender, after being with the Met Office since 1923.
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/climate-reports/6129-bbc-drops-top-ipcc-source-for-climate-change-data
A change of climate at the BBC? :o ;) ;D
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All of the above.
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I declare myself the winner and I dont care what anyone says now [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] :P
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I declare myself the winner and I dont care what anyone says now [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] :P
Very many congratulations ST 8-) :y :y
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I declare myself the winner and I dont care what anyone says now [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif] :P
Very many congratulations ST 8-) :y :y
Congratulations to everyone who resisted to keep this thread alive ;D :y
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..........and obviously it is not dead yet!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Next post........................
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
-
So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quite so Elizabeth - should we have done so, what else could we possibly occupy our time with? ;D ;D
The quest for an answer must proceed. :y :y
-
So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quite so Elizabeth - should we have done so, what else could we possibly occupy our time with? ;D ;D
The quest for an answer must proceed. :y :y
So did anyone record the temperature when the thread started? ;)
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So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quite so Elizabeth - should we have done so, what else could we possibly occupy our time with? ;D ;D
The quest for an answer must proceed. :y :y
So did anyone record the temperature when the thread started? ;)
'Twas the ice age. ;D
-
So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quite so Elizabeth - should we have done so, what else could we possibly occupy our time with? ;D ;D
The quest for an answer must proceed. :y :y
So did anyone record the temperature when the thread started? ;)
'Twas the ice age. ;D
You've been massaging figures I can tell. :D
-
So what conclusion have we come to?
Sorry I was asleep and must have missed it.
As usual, I think none! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quite so Elizabeth - should we have done so, what else could we possibly occupy our time with? ;D ;D
The quest for an answer must proceed. :y :y
So did anyone record the temperature when the thread started? ;)
'Twas the ice age. ;D
You've been massaging figures I can tell. :D
Young man!!
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
You're wrong Cem. No ice has melted and no animals were harmed in the making of this subterfuge.
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
You're wrong Cem. No ice has melted and no animals were harmed in the making of this subterfuge.
;D
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
Ah! So you admit it!!
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
Ah! So you admit it!!
Never tried to hide it mate. You can have a look if you want.
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Once Turkey becomes an EU member the world will be your oyster Cem! Jobs or benefits, whatever you want ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Once Turkey becomes an EU member the world will be your oyster Cem! Jobs or benefits, whatever you want ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie, when I look at the population, economy,religion factors of my country I see nearly impossible, :(
and when I look at the relations/behaviours with some EU members like Greece and France and also looking general economy of EU it became worse than desperate :( :(
and looking into general facts who is going to do something for you if you dont do it for yourself..
dont get me wrong but here is a local saying : stay as a poor king where you are rather than being a rich slave there.. :)
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Once Turkey becomes an EU member the world will be your oyster Cem! Jobs or benefits, whatever you want ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie, when I look at the population, economy,religion factors of my country I see nearly impossible, :(
and when I look at the relations/behaviours with some EU members like Greece and France and also looking general economy of EU it became worse than desperate :( :(
and looking into general facts who is going to do something for you if you dont do it for yourself..
dont get me wrong but here is a local saying : stay as a poor king where you are rather than being a rich slave there.. :)
A very wise saying there Cem 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y
-
and one more point I want to add ,
EU in my dictionary means that freedom of slaves to travel and work cheaper for their foreign bosses to bring them more profit.. this is the reason they build EU..
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Once Turkey becomes an EU member the world will be your oyster Cem! Jobs or benefits, whatever you want ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Lizzie, when I look at the population, economy,religion factors of my country I see nearly impossible, :(
and when I look at the relations/behaviours with some EU members like Greece and France and also looking general economy of EU it became worse than desperate :( :(
and looking into general facts who is going to do something for you if you dont do it for yourself..
dont get me wrong but here is a local saying : stay as a poor king where you are rather than being a rich slave there.. :)
A very wise saying there Cem 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y
:y :y
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Cheap Manchester Utd. tickets in the future, Cem?
http://www.football.co.uk/manchester_united/man_utd_in_turkish_airlines_deal_rss312599.shtml
;)
-
just watched a program on how the ice is gone..
and animals are badly effected :'(
I know I shouldn't.......not with you. But I cant help it you see.....it's affected ;D
thanks.. :y
when I start writing fast , English spell-writing checker in my brain fails ;D need a new software ;D
Seriously, Cem. Your English has really come along. Well done mate.
You'll soon be over here, with your 15 'cousins', opening up a coffee shop. ;D ;D
Thanks STMO :y
number of cousins double than that, but they are living far , some work for farming , some have other jobs but all of them have childrens..So its too late for them to search for a new job abroad.. One is a hostess (flies abroad frequently) trying to catch the payments of sons school and mother..
And me, being too lazy even I cant go 300 km ;D to see them frequently let 3000 km :o
only if job sends me :-/
Cheap Manchester Utd. tickets in the future, Cem?
http://www.football.co.uk/manchester_united/man_utd_in_turkish_airlines_deal_rss312599.shtml
;)
interesting.. :)
unfortunately not a good fan of football and never passed from the entrance of any footbal stadium ;D
she better brings me Scotch :y instead of tickets, cause one bottle here is 25-30 £ >:(
-
good night everyone, need to get some sleep :y :y
-
good night everyone, need to get some sleep :y :y
I hope you slept well cem as there's a lot more to be done on this thread :y :y
-
There certainly is. There's a runner-up to be decided. ::)
-
There certainly is. There's a runner-up to be decided. ::)
Who will it be, I wonder?
-
Cough.
-
You are silly, you lot. ;D
-
Methinks Mr STMO123 is first runner up .. :)
-
Anyway - getting back to the climate issue, the evidence keeps on stacking up, its that nice Mr Pachauri again.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245161/Climate-change-chief-says-sorry-hot-air-claim-melting-glaciers.html
-
Anyway - gettink back to the climate issue, the evidence keeps on sracking up, its that nice Mr Pachauri again.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245161/Climate-change-chief-says-sorry-hot-air-claim-melting-glaciers.html
Seems to run in the family ::) ::) ::)
See ' Keeping it in the family' on the following link;
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/
-
I am, however, very concerned about this sinister development :o :o
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/twenty%11foot-mice-within-ten-years%2c-say-experts-200906251855/
-
I am, however, very concerned about this sinister development :o :o
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/twenty%11foot-mice-within-ten-years%2c-say-experts-200906251855/
"Of course, this also means that colder temperatures mean slower evolution. Get on a train to Aberdeen and then tell me I'm wrong."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Methinks Mr STMO123 is first. Dont know who'll be runner up .. :)
Good man :y
-
A sound result :y :y
-
We are all agreed. Excellent. :y ;D
-
It was the only realistic outcome in my view :y
-
There will be dissenters, of that you can be sure.
-
Without doubt - but our cause is just and they will surely founder upon the folly of injudicious comment and irrelevance.
In the meantime something to bolster the spirit. :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HbvOEHl4Y4&feature=related[/media]
-
I'm glad we started this thread. It's been soooooooo uplifting.
-
I'm glad we started this thread. It's been soooooooo uplifting.
This thread has been on steroids. ;)
Is it a record length for OOF? :o
-
I'm glad we started this thread. It's been soooooooo uplifting.
Claiming you started it as well as finished it eh?
-
I think the "add 3 words" thread may have been longer,admins put it out of its misery in the end iirc. Might start another one soon, or possibly another song title thread. Helps while away the winter evenings. :y
-
I think the "add 3 words" thread may have been longer,admins put it out of its misery in the end iirc. Might start another one soon, or possibly another song title thread. Helps while away the winter evenings. :y
Crap idea. I wont post in it. :P
-
I'm glad we started this thread. It's been soooooooo uplifting.
Claiming you started it as well as finished it eh?
It's bigger than both of us, Chris.
-
I think the "add 3 words" thread may have been longer,admins put it out of its misery in the end iirc. Might start another one soon, or possibly another song title thread. Helps while away the winter evenings. :y
Crap idea. I wont post in it. :P
Thats one very good reason to start it then. :P ;D
-
I think the "add 3 words" thread may have been longer,admins put it out of its misery in the end iirc. Might start another one soon, or possibly another song title thread. Helps while away the winter evenings. :y
Crap idea. I wont post in it. :P
Thats one very good reason to start it then. :P ;D
Hmmmmm........I think I will post after all :y ;D
-
You think ... ?????
:)
-
You think ... ?????
:)
Therefore I am........... ;D
-
Moody Blues version ????
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgvVFv2jiL0[/media]
-
EGBDF.
-
I feel a calling to this :-* :-* :-*
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrKzfYl3hgI&feature=related[/media]
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
Who's blithering ??
It was you who said EGBDF .... what rubbish was that !!!
(for accuracy ... "On The Threshold Of a Dream" ... :) )
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
Who's blithering ??
It was you who said EGBDF .... what rubbish was that !!!
(for accuracy ... "On The Threshold Of a Dream" ... :) )
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Every good boy deserves favour
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/moodies/mbevery.htm
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
Who's blithering ??
It was you who said EGBDF .... what rubbish was that !!!
(for accuracy ... "On The Threshold Of a Dream" ... :) )
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Every good boy deserves favour
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/moodies/mbevery.htm
I was leaning towards fudge - but, there you are :-[ :-[
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
Who's blithering ??
It was you who said EGBDF .... what rubbish was that !!!
(for accuracy ... "On The Threshold Of a Dream" ... :) )
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Every good boy deserves favour
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/moodies/mbevery.htm
Yup .. but the track "In the Beginning" is NOT on EGBDF .. :)
-
Ahh ... Mr Anderson's dulcet tones ... :y :y :y :y :y :y
Showing our ages methinks .... :'( :'( :'( :'(
Happy days indeed, E 8-) 8-) :y
Stop blithering on MY thread. >:(
Who's blithering ??
It was you who said EGBDF .... what rubbish was that !!!
(for accuracy ... "On The Threshold Of a Dream" ... :) )
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Every good boy deserves favour
http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/moodies/mbevery.htm
Yup .. but the track "In the Beginning" is NOT on EGBDF .. :)
Red herring ;D
-
Something fishy going on there ? .. :)
-
Sorry. I meant to post that in the thread about goldfish expiring...or something. ::)
-
Sorry. I meant to post that in the thread about goldfish expiring...or something. ::)
Don't worry about it ST, it's an honest mistake :y
-
Sorry. I meant to post that in the thread about goldfish expiring...or something. ::)
Don't worry about it ST, it's an honest mistake :y
Agreed, you're forgiven .. :)
-
Thanks, guys. :y :-*
-
It's an honour :y :y
-
You're welcome :)
-
To be truthful, it's the very least we could have done :y :y
-
To be truthful, it's the very least we could have done :y :y
Agreed, we are just so kind .... :)
-
To be truthful, it's the very least we could have done :y :y
Agreed, we are just so kind .... :)
For ST - how could we fail to be? :y
-
To be truthful, it's the very least we could have done :y :y
Agreed, we are just so kind .... :)
For ST - how could we fail to be? :y
I'll PM you on that Zulu. (only joking!! I mean someone has to be).
-
Hasn't the rising sea levels covered you lot yet! :-/ :-/ :-/
You men talk about women gabbering on about nothing...........!!!! :o :o :o
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
-
Hasn't the rising sea levels covered you lot yet! :-/ :-/ :-/
You men talk about women gabbering on about nothing...........!!!! :o :o :o
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
This is a very, very serious matter I'll have you know ......
It is NOT to be taken lightly.
(stopping STMO having the "last word")
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I had the last word, could've let it lie.........................................................................................but I had to tell you I'd had the last word.
Mistake, I think ;D
-
It would appear so. :)
-
Dear me. The riff-raff are joining in now. :(
-
Dear me. The riff-raff are joining in now. :(
Surely you don't refer to my wise nephew from the east? :o :o
-
Forgive him uncle for he is a scouser and they know no better. ;) ::)
-
Dear me. The riff-raff are joining in now. :(
Surely you don't refer to my wise nephew from the east? :o :o
Young Paddy? Wise? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
We speak of a wisdom which can only be gained from frequenting an area in the East.An area we both know so well but you could never understand. ;) :P
-
We speak of a wisdom which can only be gained from frequenting an area in the East.An area we both know so well but you could never understand. ;) :P
Wise to get away from there, that's for sure.
-
We speak of a wisdom which can only be gained from frequenting an area in the East.An area we both know so well but you could never understand. ;) :P
Wise to get away from there, that's for sure.
;D ;D ;D you're not far wrong ST :y
-
We speak of a wisdom which can only be gained from frequenting an area in the East.An area we both know so well but you could never understand. ;) :P
Wise to get away from there, that's for sure.
;D ;D ;D you're not far wrong ST :y
Nor about the Albs fella, I fear Z. ;D
-
Is there a Climate Change Forum on the web anywhere?
If so, do they have any postings about cars?
-
Is there a Climate Change Forum on the web anywhere?
If so, do they have any postings about cars?
Yes but only electric cars and no-one has one.
-
Is there a Climate Change Forum on the web anywhere?
If so, do they have any postings about cars?
You need 'General car chat'. Please stay off the climate change forum unless you have a useful contribution. I thank you.
-
I think that Robert should be welcomed climate change thread ( part of the forum knowledge database) with the following proposal by this House;
That the use of private transport has not been responsible for or contributed to - by any meaningful degree - Anthropological Global Warming.
If he gets stuck into this, his 1000 will be up in no time at all :y :y
-
I think that Robert should be welcomed climate change thread ( part of the forum knowledge database) with the following proposal by this House;
That the use of private transport has not been responsible for or contributed to - by any meaningful degree - Anthropological Global Warming.
If he gets stuck into this, his 1000 will be up in no time at all :y :y
Seconded, with one proviso. I get to have the last word. ;D ;D
-
I think that Robert should be welcomed climate change thread ( part of the forum knowledge database) with the following proposal by this House;
That the use of private transport has not been responsible for or contributed to - by any meaningful degree - Anthropological Global Warming.
If he gets stuck into this, his 1000 will be up in no time at all :y :y
Seconded, with one proviso. I get to have the last word. ;D ;D
That's OK by me :y
-
Then we are agreed.
-
Without any doubt whatsoever :y :y
-
There ;)must always be room for some doubt Uncle Z.
-
There ;)must always be room for some doubt Uncle Z.
I have no doubt that we will be hearing from ST soon ;D ;D :y
-
There ;)must always be room for some doubt Uncle Z.
I have no doubt that we will be hearing from ST soon ;D ;D :y
Correctamundo. ;D
-
Wonderful news indeed :y :y
-
This can't go on.
-
Let's ask the great Ella;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbTQWdnpjBk[/media]
-
Or:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3yNWvVwxg
-
Or:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF3yNWvVwxg
That's a great track 8-) 8-) and it's the one that came into my mind before posting Ella :y :y
-
Written I believe by the hugely under rated Paul Carrack. :y
-
326
-
326
I wonder if ST will be 327? :-/ :-/
-
No.328.
-
Why stop? :D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNHtyUH_reQ[/media]
-
Why stop? :D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNHtyUH_reQ[/media]
That's a fine wee recording 8-) :y :y
-
Why stop? :D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNHtyUH_reQ[/media]
That's a fine wee recording 8-) :y :y
He's in the toilet ????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Why stop? :D
That's a fine wee recording 8-) :y :y
He's in the toilet ????
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D :y
-
Another day. I have told wifey that a half term break is not possible this year. Must keep an eye on things here.
-
Another day. I have told wifey that a half term break is not possible this year. Must keep an eye on things here.
I hope she took the news well ST :-/ :-/
-
Possible divorce but one has to gets ones priorites right. :(
-
Possible divorce but one has to gets ones priorites right. :(
Oh dear, oh dear.I told you Steve, one day you will trip and I will be there to watch you fall. ::) :P ;D ;D
-
Possible divorce but one has to gets ones priorites right. :(
Oh dear, oh dear.I told you Steve, one day you will trip and I will be there to watch you fall. ::) :P ;D ;D
I dropped it for you to find darling :-* ;D
-
BULLSHITTER EXTRAORDINAIRE. ::)
-
BULLSHITTER EXTRAORDINAIRE. ::)
Did you have to copy and paste those big words? ;D
-
Possible divorce but one has to gets ones priorites right. :(
I'm in thrall of your selfless dedication ST 8-) 8-) :y
-
BULLSHITTER EXTRAORDINAIRE. ::)
Did you have to copy and paste those big words? ;D
No, actually I did consider accusing you of being a purveyor of termilogical inexactitude, but I thought it might make me look like a smartarse and we dont need another one of those now do we ? ;) :D ;D :P
-
BULLSHITTER EXTRAORDINAIRE. ::)
Did you have to copy and paste those big words? ;D
No, actually I did consider accusing you of being a purveyor of termilogical inexactitude, but I thought it might make me look like a smartarse and we dont need another one of those now do we ? ;) :D ;D :P
Terminological
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Winker :P
-
I consider this to be money very well spent :y :y
CBS News Investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports official filings and our own investigation show at least 106 people from the House and Senate attended - spouses, a doctor, a protocol expert and even a photographer.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/25/cbsnews_investigates/main6140406.shtml
-
http://jer-skepticscorner.blogspot.com/2010/01/scariest-headline-of-yearso-far.html
;) :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
;D ;D ;D ;D outstanding ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
(Don't ya just love the Star)
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
Well saved, ST :y :y
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
Plenty of arses contribute though.
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
Plenty of arses contribute though.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D outstanding ;D ;D ;D :y
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
Plenty of arses contribute though.
Very quick .. just 4 minutes .. :)
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
Plenty of arses contribute though.
Very quick .. just 4 minutes .. :)
10 seconds....I went for a pee. ;D :y
-
Oh, it slipped to page 2. ::)
can't wait for it to reach page 3 then ... might get interesting.... :)
Sounds interesting but what if one only takes the Telegraph and Guardian ;D ;D ;D :( :(
I've yet to see girl's bottoms in the Telegraph :(
Plenty of arses contribute though.
Very quick .. just 4 minutes .. :)
10 seconds....I went for a pee. ;D :y
It takes you 3 minutes 50 seconds to pee ??? I'd see a doctor about that ... at your age it could be a sign of prostate trouble ....
:)
-
Living in Yorkshire, we have an outside lavvy. It's quite a hike. So far away, in fact, that I try to wait until I need a number two. ;D
-
Living in Yorkshire, we have an outside lavvy. It's quite a hike. So far away, in fact, that I try to wait until I need a number two. ;D
That's real dedication to the cause 8-) 8-) :y
-
To haul the topic back to some approximation of the OP's original intent, I submit the following snippet;
Scientists in stolen e-mail scandal hid climate data
Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7004936.ece
-
It's slipped again. Am I the only one who cares? ::)
-
This thread is safe in your hands ST [smiley=engel017.gif] [smiley=engel017.gif]
-
It's slipped again. Am I the only one who cares? ::)
;D ;D ;D splendid :y :y
-
We must keep it up Zulu. OOER :-[
-
We must keep it up Zulu. OOER :-[
Absolutely;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSeoR4lH1-8[/media]
(thanks to Turk for posting that link earlier) :y
-
Carry on, Zulu :y
Two for the price of one there. ::)
-
Carry on, Zulu :y
Two for the price of one there. ::)
I fall in admiration, ST ;D ;D :y
-
365
-
365
Days in a year ???
(do I win a prize now ? :) )
-
365
Days in a year ???
(do I win a prize now ? :) )
nope. :)
-
365
Days in a year ???
(do I win a prize now ? :) )
nope. :)
OK .. just thought I'd ask .. :)
-
365
Days in a year ???
(do I win a prize now ? :) )
nope. :)
OK .. just thought I'd ask .. :)
i dont have nothing to give. but im happy. :)
-
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q20cnn8vOfg[/media]
"The line from the State of the Union speech that got the biggest laugh was about "the overwhelming evidence of climate change."
;D ;D ;D ;)
-
No more now, please.
-
OK if you say so...... :)
-
So this is why everyone's so keen to do something about climate change - anthropological or otherwise. :o :o :o
Why didn't they say so?
Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden has called for the world to boycott American goods and the U.S. dollar, blaming the United States and other industrialized countries for global warming, according to a new audiotape released Friday
Read more;
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100129/D9DHDH582.html
-
We must keep it up Zulu. OOER :-[
Absolutely;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSeoR4lH1-8[/media]
(thanks to Turk for posting that link earlier) :y
Quite like the fact that the new Shreddies brekky add on the telly uses him when eyeing up the wrinklies!
-
We must keep it up Zulu. OOER :-[
Absolutely;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSeoR4lH1-8[/media]
(thanks to Turk for posting that link earlier) :y
Quite like the fact that the new Shreddies brekky add on the telly uses him when eyeing up the wrinklies!
I'm afraid that I would have Shirley Eaton for breakfast any day :-* :-* :-* :-* :y
-
I thought STMO had ordered "no more" .... :)
-
I thought STMO had ordered "no more" .... :)
It hasn't arrived yet.
-
OK ..... so long as I know ... :)
-
If we work out how old each of us are, and in what state of health, we may be able to decide who is likely to have the final word and save a lot of energy. ;D ;D
-
good point .... well made ... :)
-
Thank you.
Would you prefer pistols at dawn?
-
Thank you.
Would you prefer pistols at Dawn?
French??
-
Thank you.
Would you prefer pistols at Dawn?
French??
Noooooooooo.....stop it.....all of you (I am jumping up and down as I type) ;D ;D
-
Have I missed something?
-
Have I missed something?
People are posting on OUR thread Zulu. Tell them :'(
-
Perhaps you should charge a "posting fee" ..... and give a receipt .... you could call it a "stamp" .........
:)
-
Our child is growing and now looking to a wider audience for inspiration and fulfilment, can we justifiably arrest its development.
We may have to sacrifice the loving bond of our protective influence and expose our beloved to the dubious world of the forum membership at large.
Can you be strong for both Entwood and myself?
-
It's very hard to let go, but I suppose we can't wrap it in cotton wool forever. :'(
WTF am I on about? :D
-
Perhaps you should charge a "posting fee" ..... and give a receipt .... you could call it a "stamp" .........
:)
Perhaps the admin team should impose a 'posting fee' "tax" - each time someone perpetuates a long thread full of nonsensical drivel then postcounts should be culled by, say, a factor of ten??
You could call it a 'wee love bite........' ;D ;D ;)
-
Our child is growing and now looking to a wider audience for inspiration and fulfilment, can we justifiably arrest its development.
We may have to sacrifice the loving bond of our protective influence and expose our beloved to the dubious world of the forum membership at large.
Can you be strong for both Entwood and myself?
carefull .. you'll have all those odd folks from the "copper caught fiddling" coming over to join in .. :(
(and by the way ... why is there no mention of where the recital took place in that thread... I would enjoy a small amount of mozart right now .. :) )
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w7Odo9X3uU
-
These may help E;
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRNE_IfFNZE&feature=related[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtCPLIMYtc[/media]
-
Thank you .... I found something but posted it elsewhere as it was deemed too frivolous for this deep and meaningful thread ..
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1264800170
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Hi everyone,It,s got serious again all of a sudden on here hasn,t it.
I still think that our beloved leaders are stuffing us with a load of bo**ocks,and I don,t think we will ever get a refund on any carbon footprint tax that they have scammed off us.
Alfie.
-
"As chief operating officer for the cabal of Billionaires who control the global warming scam, Hitler quickly realizes the long range implications of "Glaciergate".
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-6U5MwyDM[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
"Everyone who doesn't drive a Prius, please leave the room now." - priceless (sorry, Zulu! ;) )
-
"As chief operating officer for the cabal of Billionaires who control the global warming scam, Hitler quickly realizes the long range implications of "Glaciergate".
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-6U5MwyDM[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
"Everyone who doesn't drive a Prius, please leave the room now." - priceless (sorry, Zulu! ;) )
That was very funny - and well done ;D ;D ;D :y
-
Now that Alfie has cracked the whip and brought the thread back on target, the following might be of interest;
The United Nations' expert panel on climate change based claims about ice disappearing from the world's mountain tops on a student's dissertation and an article in a mountaineering magazine.
Read more at;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7111525/UN-climate-change-panel-based-claims-on-student-dissertation-and-magazine-article.html
-
Those members sufficiently interested will be gratified to know that our politicians are made of strong stuff in the face of such opposing facts.
This single-minded determination has made our country great and will, once more, re-establish our natural place at the top table of world leading democracies.
Ed Miliband declares war on climate change sceptics
Read more (if you dare) here;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/31/ed-miliband-climate-change-scepticism
Yes I know it's the Gruniad Guardian but please don't carry a prejudice.
-
Those members sufficiently interested will be gratified to know that our politicians are made of strong stuff in the face of such opposing facts.
This single-minded determination has made our country great and will, once more, re-establish our natural place at the top table of world leading democracies.
Ed Miliband declares war on climate change sceptics
Read more (if you dare) here;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/31/ed-miliband-climate-change-scepticism
Yes I know it's the Gruniad Guardian but please don't carry a prejudice.
Smelling STMO?
-
Those members sufficiently interested will be gratified to know that our politicians are made of strong stuff in the face of such opposing facts.
This single-minded determination has made our country great and will, once more, re-establish our natural place at the top table of world leading democracies.
Ed Miliband declares war on climate change sceptics
Read more (if you dare) here;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/31/ed-miliband-climate-change-scepticism
Yes I know it's the Gruniad Guardian but please don't carry a prejudice.
"Ed Miliband declares war on climate change sceptics"
Using WMB I presume? (Weapons of Mass Brainwashing). ;)
Fortunately, Miliband should be toast after May 6th and as for the Grauniad, it's dwindling readership means that the masses are spared this drivel. :y
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From the homepage of Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the Univesity of London, Philip Stott.
Well worth a read:
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/1/30_Global_Warming%3A_the_Collapse_of_a_Grand_Narrative.html
"The appalling pre-Copenhagen attacks by the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, and his climate-change henchman, Ed Miliband, on those who dared to be critical of the science of climate change were some of the most unforgivable I can recall."
Quite so, Professor Stott. :y
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From the homepage of Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the Univesity of London, Philip Stott.
Well worth a read:
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/1/30_Global_Warming%3A_the_Collapse_of_a_Grand_Narrative.html
"The appalling pre-Copenhagen attacks by the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, and his climate-change henchman, Ed Miliband, on those who dared to be critical of the science of climate change were some of the most unforgivable I can recall."
Quite so, Professor Stott. :y
Splendid link Nick :y
The following observations are most interesting and get to the nexus of the matter;
unacceptable cronyism, for unwonted arrogance, and for the disgraceful misuse of data at every level
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From the homepage of Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the Univesity of London, Philip Stott.
Well worth a read:
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/1/30_Global_Warming%3A_the_Collapse_of_a_Grand_Narrative.html
"The appalling pre-Copenhagen attacks by the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, and his climate-change henchman, Ed Miliband, on those who dared to be critical of the science of climate change were some of the most unforgivable I can recall."
Quite so, Professor Stott. :y
Splendid link Nick :y
The following observations are most interesting and gets to the nexus of the matter;
unacceptable cronyism, for unwonted arrogance, and for the disgraceful misuse of data at every level
Typical of modern-day government, so why are we surprised ???
:-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
I've had this discussion before. Lord Adonis was an education minister (bloody good one too), he was moved aside to make room for Ed 'dangle berries'. He is now in transport, but I doubt he has suddenly become an expert on trains, cars etc.
When these idiots are being interviewed they should bring their team of advisors with them instead of pretending they know.
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
I've had this discussion before. Lord Adonis was an education minister (bloody good one too), he was moved aside to make room for Ed 'dangle berries'. He is now in transport, but I doubt he has suddenly become an expert on trains, cars etc.
When these idiots are being interviewed they should bring their team of advisors with them instead of pretending they know.
Don't think the Beeb will let them do that, but I do feel that he could make a little more effort to find out how science works. For the most part, it isn't about "facts", its about hypotheses. To get from there to a conclusion generally requires a few iterations and a bit of a rethink. :)
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
In keeping with the very tough requirements, to have more than a working knowledge of one’s brief, placed upon those who seek to occupy such high office in this administration of all the talents, I think our Climate Secretary is more than qualified.
In addition, the fact that he is at the fore-front of this struggle fills me with the utmost confidence that our government will guide this country to safe waters through the gathering storm of this global climate disaster.
In Mr Milliband we have a man in whom we can place our trust.
Our nation is safe and will bathe in the light of glory once again thanks to his dedication and wisdom:y :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=podh1wht9RY[/media]
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
In keeping with the very tough requirements, to have more than a working knowledge of one’s brief, placed upon those who seek to occupy such high office in this administration of all the talents, I think our Climate Secretary is more than qualified.
In addition, the fact that he is at the fore-front of this struggle fills me with the utmost confidence that our government will guide this country to safe waters through the gathering storm of this global climate disaster.
In Mr Milliband we have a man in whom we can place our trust.
Our nation is safe and will bathe in the light of glory once again thanks to his dedication and wisdom:y :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=podh1wht9RY[/media]
Easy on the meds there Zulu. :o
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
In keeping with the very tough requirements, to have more than a working knowledge of one’s brief, placed upon those who seek to occupy such high office in this administration of all the talents, I think our Climate Secretary is more than qualified.
In addition, the fact that he is at the fore-front of this struggle fills me with the utmost confidence that our government will guide this country to safe waters through the gathering storm of this global climate disaster.
In Mr Milliband we have a man in whom we can place our trust.
Our nation is safe and will bathe in the light of glory once again thanks to his dedication and wisdom:y :y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=podh1wht9RY
Easy on the meds there Zulu. :o
Perhaps I need to take some more ST :-/ :-/ or perhaps I need some professional help :D :D
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If you keep your tongue in your cheek for too long uncle, it might just stay there. ;) ;D
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Wow this is a long thread. Heard talk last week that sea ice breaking up around Antartica is being caused more by storms/rough seas than any actual warming, now what is causing the storms/rough seas ?
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
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Miliband was on the radio at lunch time today banging on about how the science was proven and unarguable.
All he established was that he knows SFA about science. :)
I've had this discussion before. Lord Adonis was an education minister (bloody good one too), he was moved aside to make room for Ed 'dangle berries'. He is now in transport, but I doubt he has suddenly become an expert on trains, cars etc.
When these idiots are being interviewed they should bring their team of advisors with them instead of pretending they know.
Actually he is and is possibly the ONE person in government who knows what he is doing, he is also being wooed by the other two main parties.
BTW it seems that Adonis was a railway enthusiast when he was young.
Millipeed is an idiot and Ed 'dangle berries' - well where do I start ::) ::)
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Good read here!
Skullduggery, anyone?
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/politics-propaganda/6249-climategate-is-the-british-government-conspiring-not-to-prosecute
:o :o
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
Hang on - isn't this the theory that was proposed in the Channel 4 film The Great Global Warming Swindle about 3 years ago? I thought that the program had been discredited along with the scientists it featured and their theories.
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Good read here!
Skullduggery, anyone?
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/politics-propaganda/6249-climategate-is-the-british-government-conspiring-not-to-prosecute
:o :o
The answer is here of course;
The real mystery therefore is how the Commission came to misread the very Act which brought it into being. Undoubtedly a successful prosecution involving such world-ranking scientists would be extraordinarily embarrassing, not just to the Government but to the entire global warming cause
The following has had me puzzled for some time;
I think we should be told. (As Private Eye would be asking were it remotely interested in investigating the AGW scandal which unfortunately, for some bizarre reason known only to its editor, it isn’t)
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
Hang on - isn't this the theory that was proposed in the Channel 4 film The Great Global Warming Swindle about 3 years ago? I thought that the program had been discredited along with the scientists it featured and their theories.
I'm not sure by whom J and I didn't see that programme. I would have thought however that if NASA is mounting this mission, there was something of interest to be investigated.
Irrespective of whatever energy is generated and subsequently used here on earth - and its resultant waste product of course - the sun must hold the potential to render all that irrelevant.
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
Hang on - isn't this the theory that was proposed in the Channel 4 film The Great Global Warming Swindle about 3 years ago? I thought that the program had been discredited along with the scientists it featured and their theories.
I'm not sure by whom J and I didn't see that programme. I would have thought however that if NASA is mounting this mission, there was something of interest to be investigated.
Irrespective of whatever energy is generated and subsequently used here on earth - and its resultant waste product of course - the sun must hold the potential to render all that irrelevant.
Hava a look at these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/
Maybe a large part of the program was biassed political propaganda, but the sun cycle theory was expounded then, and got rubbished by the critics who said the entire program was nonsense.
I don't know. :) :) :)
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
Hang on - isn't this the theory that was proposed in the Channel 4 film The Great Global Warming Swindle about 3 years ago? I thought that the program had been discredited along with the scientists it featured and their theories.
I'm not sure by whom J and I didn't see that programme. I would have thought however that if NASA is mounting this mission, there was something of interest to be investigated.
Irrespective of whatever energy is generated and subsequently used here on earth - and its resultant waste product of course - the sun must hold the potential to render all that irrelevant.
Hava a look at these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/
Maybe a large part of the program was biassed political propaganda, but the sun cycle theory was expounded then, and got rubbished by the critics who said the entire program was nonsense.
I don't know. :) :) :)
Thank you J, I'll follow those links later :y
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For all the increasingly suspicious utterances of the IPCC and their camp-followers, running-dogs, toadies and blinded disciples, I would have thought that the true sustainer of all life on this planet has a much bigger say in how our climate will change.
Scientists have long been aware that disturbances on the sun can trigger dangerous x-rays, charged particles and magnetic fields that can disrupt power supplies, communication signals and aircraft navigation systems on Earth.
Read more here;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7009735.ece
Tongue firmly out of cheek here, my wise nephew :y :y
Hang on - isn't this the theory that was proposed in the Channel 4 film The Great Global Warming Swindle about 3 years ago? I thought that the program had been discredited along with the scientists it featured and their theories.
I'm not sure by whom J and I didn't see that programme. I would have thought however that if NASA is mounting this mission, there was something of interest to be investigated.
Irrespective of whatever energy is generated and subsequently used here on earth - and its resultant waste product of course - the sun must hold the potential to render all that irrelevant.
Hava a look at these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle
http://climatedenial.org/2007/03/09/the-great-channel-four-swindle/
Maybe a large part of the program was biassed political propaganda, but the sun cycle theory was expounded then, and got rubbished by the critics who said the entire program was nonsense.
I don't know. :) :) :)
Thank you J, I did look at those links. This is another case of those AGW protagonists being sceptical about opinion made which is contrary to their own viewpoint.
I haven't seen the programme so have to depend on these reports to try and understand why the sun theory was so readily discounted, although I did note the part of the WIKI piece where the view was that AGW seems the have been settled science - that I find disturbing.
In my simplistic view, if the sun shines there is warmth and light - if it doesn’t, it is cold and dark. Having that degree of influence over our daily existence, I think it more than reasonable to suggest that it can similarly influence the climatic conditions of this planet.
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Are you lot still blithering?
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This answers a few questions I've had.
http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/2010/02/fingers-in-pies.html
::) ::)
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This answers a few questions I've had.
http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/2010/02/fingers-in-pies.html
::) ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D A bit tenuous Nick......
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This answers a few questions I've had.
http://biased-bbc.blogspot.com/2010/02/fingers-in-pies.html
::) ::)
A very interesting link Nick, well worth exploring :y
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Are you lot still blithering?
My Queen :P I am not even looking at it..... ::) ::) ::)
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Further evidence comes to light this morning with regard to the deliberate hiding of data by a coupe of the scientists right at the heart of the global warming scandal.
OK, you may think that a bit "old hat". But what IS interesting is that this piece of investigative journalism comes from The Guardian! :o :o
What is even more interesting is that the journos at The Guardian tipped off the most popular sceptic WUWT website before they published the story.
Wow. The AGW bandwagon seems to be having a slow-motion crash.
Most enjoyable to watch. ;)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/01/climategate-intensifies-jones-and-wang-hid-chinese-station-data-issues/
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427
-
427
Stop butting in Richie ::)
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427
Stop butting in Richie ::)
only way i can remember where ive read up to. cant remember what ive read though ;D ;D
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427
Stop butting in Richie ::)
only way i can remember where ive read up to. cant remember what ive read though ;D ;D
Doh! Climate change is real and if we don't do something about it quickly we will all die.
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427
Stop butting in Richie ::)
only way i can remember where ive read up to. cant remember what ive read though ;D ;D
Doh! Climate change is real and if we don't do something about it quickly we will all die.
Correct. I mean not correct. I think.
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427
Stop butting in Richie ::)
only way i can remember where ive read up to. cant remember what ive read though ;D ;D
Doh! Climate change is real and if we don't do something about it quickly we will all die.
;D ;D ;D
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http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/carbon-reduction-commitment-shows-money-not-co2-driving-climate-change-policies/
"...according to Liam Newcombe, secretary of the British Computer Society’s datacentre specialist group, one of the legislation’s key flaws is that participants only purchase carbon credits under the scheme based on their own levels of in-house carbon emissions, not those generated by outsourcing providers on their behalf [...] As a result, he is concerned that organisations will be provided with a ” perverse incentive” to outsource their IT infrastructure, potentially to overseas operators, to avoid additional charges imposed by the CRC."
Yes, let's have a bit more unemployment. ::) ::)
Hopeless prats. >:( >:( >:(
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
388.09ppm, actually. That's all of 0.0388% of our atmosphere...
Good news for the biosphere. :y
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
388.09ppm, actually. That's all of 0.0388% of our atmosphere...
Good news for the biosphere. :y
He didn't mention it. You can't answer him. ;)
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
388.09ppm, actually. That's all of 0.0388% of our atmosphere...
Good news for the biosphere. :y
.....and rising.......Nick....I understand that 300ppm ....was surpassed in 1960..... ;)
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knickers knackers knockers.
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
388.09ppm, actually. That's all of 0.0388% of our atmosphere...
Good news for the biosphere. :y
.....and rising.......Nick....I understand that 300ppm ....was surpassed in 1960..... ;)
Interesting number. Let me first admit that I haven't actually read every paper so far published on this topic. So may I ask a question here?
Presumably someone has managed to correlate CO2 levels with global temperature, otherwise they wouldn't be banging on about AGW. But what I want to know is: has anyone actually established the mechanism by which these two phenomena are related? And has there been any quantitive analysis to establish the rate at which atmospheric CO2 converts solar radiation to whatever form of heat it is that increases the temperature of the planet. The greenhouse effect is well established, but if you read any simple explanation of how it works, it doesn't look like it happens instantly - it's a progressive thing, and the numbers need to be justified. Somebody must have done this, but it isn't the sort of thing that makes the headlines, and my Googling skills haven't dug it out yet.
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knickers knackers knockers.
......you virtually begged me to post on this thread.......and now you're complaining.. ;) ;)
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Have'nt llooked in this thread since page 1, see it's still full of gas bags ::)
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If this thread goes on much longer ......then I shall add my "Global warming is real and caused by modern man"....contribution.
.........and you don't want that to happen .....do you?. : ::) ::) ;)
No.
......I won't mention that current Co2 levels are at almost 400 ppm .... ::) ::) ;)
388.09ppm, actually. That's all of 0.0388% of our atmosphere...
Good news for the biosphere. :y
.....and rising.......Nick....I understand that 300ppm ....was surpassed in 1960..... ;)
Interesting number. Let me first admit that I haven't actually read every paper so far published on this topic. So may I ask a question here?
Presumably someone has managed to correlate CO2 levels with global temperature, otherwise they wouldn't be banging on about AGW. But what I want to know is: has anyone actually established the mechanism by which these two phenomena are related? And has there been any quantitive analysis to establish the rate at which atmospheric CO2 converts solar radiation to whatever form of heat it is that increases the temperature of the planet. The greenhouse effect is well established, but if you read any simple explanation of how it works, it doesn't look like it happens instantly - it's a progressive thing, and the numbers need to be justified. Somebody must have done this, but it isn't the sort of thing that makes the headlines, and my Googling skills haven't dug it out yet.
For an good primer on the subject, I tend to recommend this, written by James A Peden, who knows a lot about mass spectometry. Yes, he is a sceptic, so it won't please some, but I challenge anyone to disprove what he says about radiation.
An easy read, unlike much of the scientific stuff I read. ;)
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html#bio
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Have'nt llooked in this thread since page 1, see it's still full of gas bags ::)
Ahhh ...but if they bagged all the CO2 then global warming would decrease, if of course it is the cause .. if it is not ... then maybe bagging it will make global warming actually occur unless of course .......
What was I on about ??? :)
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For an good primer on the subject, I tend to recommend this, written by James A Peden, who knows a lot about mass spectometry. Yes, he is a sceptic, so it won't please some, but I challenge anyone to disprove what he says about radiation.
An easy read, unlike much of the scientific stuff I read. ;)
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html#bio
Excellent! He's saying what I've been saying! :) :) :)
Look at the deltas, establish causal relationships, just think about the numbers.
Piltdown man - should have thought of that one.
And of course, carbon offset is bunk, when it's not outright fraud.
I knew I was right! ;D ;D ;D
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For an good primer on the subject, I tend to recommend this, written by James A Peden, who knows a lot about mass spectometry. Yes, he is a sceptic, so it won't please some, but I challenge anyone to disprove what he says about radiation.
An easy read, unlike much of the scientific stuff I read. ;)
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html#bio
Thanks for the link Nick - very interesting.
My simplistic view of how the sun figures in this may well hold weight after all.
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Further evidence comes to light this morning with regard to the deliberate hiding of data by a coupe of the scientists right at the heart of the global warming scandal.
OK, you may think that a bit "old hat". But what IS interesting is that this piece of investigative journalism comes from The Guardian! :o :o
What is even more interesting is that the journos at The Guardian tipped off the most popular sceptic WUWT website before they published the story.
Wow. The AGW bandwagon seems to be having a slow-motion crash.
Most enjoyable to watch. ;)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/01/climategate-intensifies-jones-and-wang-hid-chinese-station-data-issues/
Perhaps the AGW protagonists are becoming concerned that the positive publicity they’ve enjoyed and capitalised on for so long has been turned and used to cause a dent in their case.
The by-line in that Guardian article leads us to that gold-plated environmentalist Pierce who seems to recognise the import of this counter argument, as he ends a piece with this paragraph;
I have been speaking to a PR operator for one of the world’s leading environmental organizations. Most unusually, he didn’t want to be quoted. But his message is clear. The facts of the e-mails barely matter any more. It has always been hard to persuade the public that invisible gases could somehow warm the planet, and that they had to make sacrifices to prevent that from happening. It seemed, on the verge of Copenhagen, as if that might be about to be achieved
But he says all that ended on Nov. 20. “The e-mails represented a seminal moment in the climate debate of the last five years, and it was a moment that broke decisively against us. I think the CRU leak is nothing less than catastrophic
Read more at;
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2221
-
Further evidence comes to light this morning with regard to the deliberate hiding of data by a coupe of the scientists right at the heart of the global warming scandal.
OK, you may think that a bit "old hat". But what IS interesting is that this piece of investigative journalism comes from The Guardian! :o :o
What is even more interesting is that the journos at The Guardian tipped off the most popular sceptic WUWT website before they published the story.
Wow. The AGW bandwagon seems to be having a slow-motion crash.
Most enjoyable to watch. ;)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/01/climategate-intensifies-jones-and-wang-hid-chinese-station-data-issues/
Perhaps the AGW protagonists are becoming concerned that the positive publicity they’ve enjoyed and capitalised on for so long has been turned and used to cause a dent in their case.
The by-line in that Guardian article leads us to that gold-plated environmentalist Pierce who seems to recognises the import of this counter argument, as he ends a piece with this paragraph;
I have been speaking to a PR operator for one of the world’s leading environmental organizations. Most unusually, he didn’t want to be quoted. But his message is clear. The facts of the e-mails barely matter any more. It has always been hard to persuade the public that invisible gases could somehow warm the planet, and that they had to make sacrifices to prevent that from happening. It seemed, on the verge of Copenhagen, as if that might be about to be achieved
But he says all that ended on Nov. 20. “The e-mails represented a seminal moment in the climate debate of the last five years, and it was a moment that broke decisively against us. I think the CRU leak is nothing less than catastrophic
Read more at;
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2221
Good link, Zulu.
Fred Pierce seems to have suffered a complete Damascene conversion at that point! ;) ;D
This is from tomorrow's Grauniad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/hacked-climate-emails-flaws-peer-review
:o :o
-
Further evidence comes to light this morning with regard to the deliberate hiding of data by a coupe of the scientists right at the heart of the global warming scandal.
OK, you may think that a bit "old hat". But what IS interesting is that this piece of investigative journalism comes from The Guardian! :o :o
What is even more interesting is that the journos at The Guardian tipped off the most popular sceptic WUWT website before they published the story.
Wow. The AGW bandwagon seems to be having a slow-motion crash.
Most enjoyable to watch. ;)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/01/climategate-intensifies-jones-and-wang-hid-chinese-station-data-issues/
Perhaps the AGW protagonists are becoming concerned that the positive publicity they’ve enjoyed and capitalised on for so long has been turned and used to cause a dent in their case.
The by-line in that Guardian article leads us to that gold-plated environmentalist Pierce who seems to recognises the import of this counter argument, as he ends a piece with this paragraph;
I have been speaking to a PR operator for one of the world’s leading environmental organizations. Most unusually, he didn’t want to be quoted. But his message is clear. The facts of the e-mails barely matter any more. It has always been hard to persuade the public that invisible gases could somehow warm the planet, and that they had to make sacrifices to prevent that from happening. It seemed, on the verge of Copenhagen, as if that might be about to be achieved
But he says all that ended on Nov. 20. “The e-mails represented a seminal moment in the climate debate of the last five years, and it was a moment that broke decisively against us. I think the CRU leak is nothing less than catastrophic
Read more at;
http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2221
Good link, Zulu.
Fred Pierce seems to have suffered a complete Damascene conversion at that point! ;) ;D
This is from tomorrow's Grauniad:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/02/hacked-climate-emails-flaws-peer-review
:o :o
It seems that those who support the AGW theory are going out of their way to add credibility to the message by appearing to address these anomalies found in the research up to the moment.
Far from being made in the pursuit of having good scientific data to back the theory, I suspect the hand of political manipulation here and as far as I can see, that hand is being guided by the Climate Secretary Ed Milliband.
It's gratifying that Mr Milliband is able to keep an open mind on the potential requirement for radical change based on such controversial science.
The perceived failure of global talks in Copenhagen last month on combating climate change has also been blamed for undermining public support. Yet, in the government's first high-level recognition of the growing pressure on public opinion, Milliband declared a "battle" against the "siren voices" who denied global warming was real or caused by humans, or that there was a need to cut carbon emissions to tackle it
To make the following more palatable no doubt;
[size=14]The danger of climate scepticism was that it would undermine public support for unpopular decisions needed to curb carbon emissions, including the likelihood of higher energy bills for households, and issues such as the visual impact of wind turbines, said Milliband, who is also energy secretary[/size]
Read more here at;
http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=24375
This rush to create policy to deal with the effects - on human wellbeing - of a warming climate based on the science used by the IPCC, has done nothing but confuse the issue, and will divert billions of dollars into schemes that will do little to address the undoubted effects of this eventual warming.
It certainly will, however, swell the coffers of those who have already jumped onto the bandwagon, seeing this as an opportunity to amass money – and power - on a hitherto impossible scale.
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Still here. ;D
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Still here. ;D
I don't think anyone suggested you'd die immediately!!!!
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Still here. ;D
I don't think anyone suggested you'd die immediately!!!!
We can live in hope ;D
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Excellent article in the Spectator.
Bloggers rule! :y
http://www.spectator.co.uk/spectator/thisweek/5749853/the-global-warming-guerrillas.thtml
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Read elsewhere...
...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.
"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'
So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?
If true, it's astonishing. :o
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Read elsewhere...
...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.
"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'
So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?
If true, it's astonishing. :o
Not in business terms it's not. There are all sorts of viewpoints involved in this debate, some deliberate, some inadvertent. If governments give out money to try and skew some fact of life they want to affect then it is hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board. Their agenda is by no means guaranteed to match that of the government.
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If you can,t blind them with science.
Baffle them with bullshit.as my old manager used to say.
Alfie.
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Oi! Churchill!
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You want Insurance now ??? :)
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You want Insurance now ??? :)
Against global warming..... :D :D :D
I usually ignore this thread, just thought I would take a quick look... ::) ::)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOQq8FBqu4
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Read elsewhere...
...a comment about solar panels from a Canadian poster on a blog.
"Kinda on topic, but I was at a seminar yesterday for venture forums - topic was renewable energy firms. A distinguished professor from the local university (specialty semi conductor materials), asks question of German dude who just presented some info on his solar panel company. 'My calculations have always shown that the energy to manufacture a solar panel is greater than the expected total output from the finished panel up to their predicted mean time to fail. Has new technology changed this fact?' Answer from German dude. 'The Ontario government pays between 70 - 80 cents per KWhr for power from solar installations supplying the grid. The current rate for all power is 12 cents. This is what matters.'
So, is he saying that the government subsidy is what makes these things viable...but they're not actually viable as it takes more energy to produce them than they will ever generate?
If true, it's astonishing. :o
Not in business terms it's not. There are all sorts of viewpoints involved in this debate, some deliberate, some inadvertent. If governments give out money to try and skew some fact of life they want to affect then it is hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board. Their agenda is by no means guaranteed to match that of the government.
hardly surprising if entrepreneurs jump on board
Exactly Chris and because of this these pimps, avariciously eyeing up the policies, now prostituted, that should have been formulated to sensibly address the effects of our changing climate - not anthropogenic in nature - will be allowed to prosper in their lust for the accumulation of money above everything else.
All aided and abetted by an incompetent and wilful government, bankrupt in ideas, bankrupt in morality and bankrupt in fact.
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Rats and sinkng ships? ::) ::)
Pachauri's own government is now heading to the lifeboats ;D ;D
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7157590/India-to-pull-out-of-IPCC.html
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There also seems to be a bit of a backlash to carbon trading proposals down under;
Obama retreat is your cue, Rudd told
With the climate change debate now hopelessly deadlocked in the Australian Parliament, the Coalition took heart yesterday from US reports that Mr Obama might abandon his cap-and-trade scheme because of an obstinate Senate
Read more;
http://www.smh.com.au/national/obama-retreat-is-your-cue-rudd-told-20100204-ngb0.html
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"It now appears that bloggers are becoming a Fifth Estate, a new, and vital, balance in the realm of politics, correcting and curbing the failures and excesses of the Fourth Estate, the press, which is too frequently subservient to the forces of the State, and of their wealthy, and often ruthless, proprietors.
This is why it is absolutely necessary that the internet remains free and open to all. This is why some newspapers need to apologise, such as The Times for its shameful editorial on “village idiots”. Above all, this is why Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband should be ashamed of, and apologise for, their recent attacks on the critics of climate-change science."
Bravo, Philip Stott! Spot on! :y :y
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/2/4_The_Day_of_the_Blogger%3A_the_Fifth_Estate_Comes_into_its_Own.html
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"It now appears that bloggers are becoming a Fifth Estate, a new, and vital, balance in the realm of politics, correcting and curbing the failures and excesses of the Fourth Estate, the press, which is too frequently subservient to the forces of the State, and of their wealthy, and often ruthless, proprietors.
This is why it is absolutely necessary that the internet remains free and open to all. This is why some newspapers need to apologise, such as The Times for its shameful editorial on “village idiots”. Above all, this is why Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband should be ashamed of, and apologise for, their recent attacks on the critics of climate-change science."
Bravo, Philip Stott! Spot on! :y :y
http://web.mac.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/2/4_The_Day_of_the_Blogger%3A_the_Fifth_Estate_Comes_into_its_Own.html
This is why it is absolutely necessary that the internet remains free and open to all.
That is critical.
The following suggests that those in authority are all too aware of how this freedom can be used to dispute matters presented, as fact, by the state.
The European Court of Justice has told Sweden that it must implement a 2006 measure requiring telecom operators to store information about their customers’ phone calls and emails
Read more; http://www.thelocal.se/24784/20100204
Police want backdoor to Web users' private data
But the most controversial element is probably the private Web interface, which raises novel security and privacy concerns, especially in the wake of a recent inspector general's report (PDF) from the Justice Department. The 289-page report detailed how the FBI obtained Americans' telephone records by citing nonexistent emergencies and simply asking for the data or writing phone numbers on a sticky note rather than following procedures required by law
Read more; http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10446503-38.html
Both taken from this thread;
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1265299685
As the two are perhaps more closely linked than initially appears.
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Isn't that a violation of human rights. One of the very things the Euro Court swore to uphold?
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Coming up on the six o'clock news; A BBC poll on climate change.
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Just watched it. The tide is turning fast by the look of things. :y :)
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
Some common sense showing at last.
Lord Stoddart is also showing that reality is breaking out in the political arena:
"It doesn't matter how many turbines we install, if the wind isn't blowing because of cold, still winter days, the blades won't turn. Unless there is an urgent rethink of Government policy on power generation, we really are going into a dark and cold age."
Exactly, M'Lord. :y
http://www.tfa.net/climatealarmism/2010/02/freezing-winter-weather-exposes-weakness-of-wind-power.html
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It is also telling that the Beeb has shown this,I can only imagine that someone in the corridors of power gave the nod for it to happen. They have previously been unashamedly subjective in their reprting of the climate issue.
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Not by us. We'll all be dead before it has any/no meaningful effect.
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Not by us. We'll all be dead before it has any/no meaningful effect.
Do you know something, or are you planning to depart soon? ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Not by us. We'll all be dead before it has any/no meaningful effect.
Do you know something, or are you planning to depart soon? ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yep.
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it
I do agree with you E - although as far as I'm concerned I tend to lean towards the solar camp rather than the anthropogenic.
The real matter for concern is what can be done to lessen the effects of this change on humanity.
With the emphasis on changing our behaviour in a misguided attempt to arrest this change - and all the billions and infringement on personal liberty and choice that it will cost - the real goal of developing sound technology to combat change will be all but ignored for the rather blunt and inelegant tool of taxation, increased pricing and strict control (for the masses at least) of energy use.
This climate change, already part of the earth's cycle, cannot be stopped in my view, and the sooner government's realize this and stop trying to achieve the impossible, the sooner we can develop sensible ways to ensure our continued stewardship of the planet.
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Yes, the average is a record (albeit only in the last 32 years), but an update from Spencer (see link below) shows the spike is mainly due to higher SSTs (Sea Surface Temperatures), probably caused by El Nino. There is an anomalous "hot spot" in the South Pacific. This is being cited as possibly the result of bathymetric (deep ocean) vulcanism, but in the words of Sir Patrick Moore, we simply don't know. Certainly, in way of contrast, land temperatures in the NH have been very cold with records tumbling in many places. It is believed, for example, that the US is experiencing its coldest winter for 25 years.** Covering 70% of the globe, the oceans play a huge role in determining climate. Of course, the oceans are heated by infra-red absorption which, in turn, is affected by cloudiness. As I understand it, the atmosphere does not heat the oceans, and CO2 is therefore not a player in that process. ;)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/05/spencer-record-january-warmth-is-mostly-sea/
__________
** Update:
Alert in Baltimore/Washington (sorry about the caps.)
"LOOKING BACK AT THE BIGGEST STORM OF RECORD FOR WASHINGTON DC... THE JANUARY 1922 KNICKERBOCKER STORM...28.0 INCHES OF SNOW WAS PRODUCED FROM 3.02 INCHES OF LIQUID WATER. CURRENT FORECASTS FOR THIS EVENT HAVE TOTAL LIQUID FALLING FROM THIS STORM APPROACHING 3 INCHES...WHICH ACCORDINGLY WOULD CREATE A SNOWFALL THAT WILL RIVAL THE KNICKERBOCKER STORM TOTAL. GENERALLY ACROSS THE REGION...20 TO 30 INCHES OF SNOW WILL FALL BY SATURDAY EVENING."
:o :o
Maybe the climate's changing back to 1922. ;) ;D
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You can fool some of the people some of the time,
But you cannot not fool all the people,all of the time.
Alfie.
-
You can fool some of the people some of the time,
But you cannot not fool all the people,all of the time.
Alfie.
But Alfie, who is fooling whom?? ;) ;)
-
You can fool some of the people some of the time,
But you cannot not fool all the people,all of the time.
Alfie.
But Alfie, who is fooling whom?? ;) ;)
The IPCC is fooling too many people, it would seem.
Watch this space for more dodgy scientific claims. ;)
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen. If there is no profit in it it will not.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason. i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.
If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?
Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation. It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what? Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created. The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen. If there is no profit in it it will not.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason. i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.
If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?
Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation. It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what? Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created. The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)
Don't think that it is as clear-cut as you make out, Elizabeth.
This study calculates that since 2000 Spain spent €571,138 to create each “green job”, including subsidies of more than €1 million per wind industry job.
For every 100 green jobs created, 220 real jobs were lost.
Of those 100 green jobs, 65 were involved in construction, fabrication and installation, 25 in administration, projects engineering and marketing and just 10 more permanent positions in operating and maintaining the renewable energy source.
It is estimated that for every one of green jobs created, over five jobs will be lost.
http://www.globalwarming.nottinghamshiretimes.co.uk/CostGreenjobs.html
;)
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen. If there is no profit in it it will not.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason. i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.
If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?
Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation. It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what? Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created. The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)
Don't think that it is as clear-cut as you make out, Elizabeth.
This study calculates that since 2000 Spain spent €571,138 to create each “green job”, including subsidies of more than €1 million per wind industry job.
For every 100 green jobs created, 220 real jobs were lost.
Of those 100 green jobs, 65 were involved in construction, fabrication and installation, 25 in administration, projects engineering and marketing and just 10 more permanent positions in operating and maintaining the renewable energy source.
It is estimated that for every one of green jobs created, over five jobs will be lost.
http://www.globalwarming.nottinghamshiretimes.co.uk/CostGreenjobs.html
;)
But surely Spain has had it's own perculiar problems, in the form of a massive, over inflated, and at times illegal, construction industry, that has been hit very hard by a greatly reduced demand for 'in the sun' accommodation, plus a Spanish government clamp down.
Spain, and indeed the whole of Europe, has been affected by the general recession so I do not think these figures can be properly related to the march of the environmental movement. ;) ;)
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Hey I,m opened minded about a lot of things,but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness.
Alfie.
Ps We have a eco neighbour who has just installed a eco friendly wood burning fire.Bloodly Awful,Smelly Polluting and unneighbourly.
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Hey I,m opened minded about a lot of things,but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness.
Alfie.
Ps We have a eco neighbour who has just installed a eco friendly wood burning fire.Bloodly Awful,Smelly Polluting and unneighbourly.
[/highlight]
I'm not sure, so please don't jump down my throat, but doesn't that contravene sections of the 'Clean Air Act'? :-/ :y
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Hey I,m opened minded about a lot of things,but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness.
Alfie.
Ps We have a eco neighbour who has just installed a eco friendly wood burning fire.Bloodly Awful,Smelly Polluting and unneighbourly.
[/highlight]
I'm not sure, so please don't jump down my throat, but doesn't that contravene sections of the 'Clean Air Act'? :-/ :y
Depends on the burner-some recirculate and reburn the exhaust fumes-like the fabulous airwash Clearview Stoves which are extremely efficient and clean if used properly.
Our old neighbour used to stink us out with their wet wood and crap burner-so I can sympathise :y
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Hi,in response to to the last 2 posts(i havn,t learnt how to drag them posts down) he had a visit from the council,someone has complained(not me) but the smoke continues.
He burns any old timber,new cut logs,pallets,etc.
Really Really smelly and horrible.
Alfie.
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You can fool some of the people some of the time,
But you cannot not fool all the people,all of the time.
Alfie.
But Alfie, who is fooling whom?? ;) ;)
But Alfie, who is fooling whom
Who? the elite Whom? everyone else.
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Hi,in response to to the last 2 posts(i havn,t learnt how to drag them posts down) he had a visit from the council,someone has complained(not me) but the smoke continues.
He burns any old timber,new cut logs,pallets,etc.
Really Really smelly and horrible.
Alfie.
Use the quote button on top right of post, not the reply button :y :y :y
-
You can fool some of the people some of the time,
But you cannot not fool all the people,all of the time.
Alfie.
But Alfie, who is fooling whom?? ;) ;)
The IPCC is fooling too many people, it would seem.
Watch this space for more dodgy scientific claims. ;)
As promised: ;)
"...the IPCC has wrongly claimed that in some African countries, yields from rain-fed agriculture could be reduced by up to 50 percent by 2020.
At best, this is a wild exaggeration, unsupported by any scientific research, referenced only to a report produced by a Canadian advocacy group, written by an obscure Moroccan academic who specialises in carbon trading, citing references which do not support his claims."
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/02/and-now-for-africagate.html
Who, indeed, is fooling whom? >:(
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen. If there is no profit in it it will not.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason. i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.
If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?
Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation. It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what? Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created. The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen
A rather distasteful aspect of the system E.
If there is no profit in it it will not
Perhaps that's the sort of direction our government should be thinking about taking in matters concerning energy policy.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.
I completely agree with you E, unfortunately our government seems to be proposing energy policies that are far from the reasonable.
greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests
This is, of course, a natural casualty and another unsavoury aspect of the 'system' and of lax and uninterested government – not forgetting the lust for profit.
business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not
Of course they have E, they've been handed a licence to print money, so to speak, by government. Since when was business all that interested in creating jobs and job security for the benefit of their staff? The bottom line will always dictate employment practice and these benefactors of the business world will, for the most part, always wish to have the job done by the least number of people for the minimum outlay.
Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created
That's a rather idealized view E, if I might say so. Will the jobs be worthwhile having and who will benefit from the profit but the shareholders and elite of the businesses concerned?
Finally I wouldn’t attach too much importance to what the Chinese say, as they do quite nicely in acquiring more than enough of the world's resources
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...and:
"In all the coverage lately given to the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and its embattled chairman, Dr Rajendra Pachauri, one rather important part of the story has largely been missed. This is the way in which, in its obsession with climate change, different branches of the UK Government have in recent years been pouring hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money into a bewildering array of "climate-related" projects, often throwing a veil of mystery over how much is being paid, to whom and why."
...
Then why should DfID have paid £30 million to assist "climate change adaptation in Africa"; or £2.5 million for the same in China? Why in 2002 should UK taxpayers have given £200,000 to pay for delegates from developing nations to attend a "Rio Earth Summit" conference in Johannesburg, and another £120,000 for green activists to attend the same shindig – let alone £10,000 for a "workshop on women as 'sacred custodians' of the Earth", to "explore the spiritual, religious and philosophical views concerning women and ecology and the policy implications of these belief systems"?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7176262/Climate-makes-money-move-in-mysterious-ways.html
And all this finance coming from a country that is technically broke.
Should I laugh or cry? ::) ::)
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Hey I,m opened minded about a lot of things,but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness.
Alfie.
Ps We have a eco neighbour who has just installed a eco friendly wood burning fire.Bloodly Awful,Smelly Polluting and unneighbourly.
but I know when I, being shafted by the goverment and big buisness
Rest assured Alfie, you're not alone there.
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Hello Elizabeth,Who do you think is making a nice fat profit out of this.
Is it the goverment,with their airport departure/surcharge tax on aircraft emissions.
Is the multinational engineering companies who make the wind turbines etc etc.
Is it the so called expertswho make their living out of scaring us to death with the end of the earth.
So its now make your mind up time,so everyone stop sitting on the fence and jump which ever way you think right.
Alfie.
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen. If there is no profit in it it will not.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason. i.e. recycle all we can; save power when we can; do not abuse the earth by greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests or poluting so that the local populations are damaged such as during the industrial revolution or Cheynoble in recent times.
If there are ways we can achive these goals, whilst helping business make profit, which yet again the business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not?
Inspite of some claims, there is NO worldwide conspiracy in this, with even non-capitalist nations, such as huge China, agreeing "we", the world's population is facing many challenges and the planets leaders must unite to tackle the situation. It is pure common sense, and if it proves to be over-reation, well so what? Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created. The world could also last a lot longer for homo sapien sapien. ;) ;)
We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen
1. A rather distasteful aspect of the system E.
If there is no profit in it it will not
Perhaps that's the sort of direction our government should be thinking about taking in matters concerning energy policy.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.
I completely agree with you E, unfortunately our government seems to be proposing energy policies that are far from the reasonable.
greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests
This is, of course, a natural casualty and another unsavoury aspect of the 'system' and of lax and uninterested government – not forgetting the lust for profit.
business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not
2. Of course they have E, they've been handed a licence to print money, so to speak, by government. Since when was business all that interested in creating jobs and job security for the benefit of their staff? The bottom line will always dictate employment practice and these benefactors of the business world will, for the most part, always wish to have the job done by the least number of people for the minimum outlay.
Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created
3. That's a rather idealized view E, if I might say so. Will the jobs be worthwhile having and who will benefit from the profit but the shareholders and elite of the businesses concerned?
Finally I wouldn’t attach too much importance to what the Chinese say, as they do quite nicely in acquiring more than enough of the world's resources
1. No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from. What is distasteful in that? Have you, and don't you still enjoy the benefits of that, unlike those previously trapped in the USSR system of old?
2. You talk in terms Zulu of a separate big nasty business versus a poor down trodden employee who only considers the bottom line. That is a very old fashioned and negative view point. Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make, and no private company has a "licence to print money". Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay. Fail to meet performance targets, and yes the employee gets to know all about the lack of profit, with someone else being 'positioned' to do that instead.
There are of course some employers who do not look after their staff, but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff, training them, and ensuring their working conditions are good so that the company can achieve the best profits through contented staff looking after valuable customers. Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created. A good healthy company prides itself in that. Of course the system can dictate a reversal of fortunes with a loss of jobs, but that will never be erradicated. Such is business life.
continued...................
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.......................
3. If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile. Short of having a revolution, their will always be shareholders who have invested their money in a company who should receive a dividend once in a while ( many businesses have failed to produce that in the past, present, and probably will not in the future - just read the FT). THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.
With the environmental business what is wrong with staff being recruited, trained with new skills, developed within the business, and enjoying the profit of success? This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe. Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.
At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time :D ;) ;)
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We live in a capitalist system and so if a profit can be made by grasping 'an oppoortunity' then it will happen
1. A rather distasteful aspect of the system E.
If there is no profit in it it will not
Perhaps that's the sort of direction our government should be thinking about taking in matters concerning energy policy.
I believe global warming is taking place, and I firmly believe we should do all that is practicable to protect our planet within reason.
I completely agree with you E, unfortunately our government seems to be proposing energy policies that are far from the reasonable.
greedy business practice, like ripping out the rain forrests
This is, of course, a natural casualty and another unsavoury aspect of the 'system' and of lax and uninterested government – not forgetting the lust for profit.
business system has identified they can, whilst providing jobs and security, why not
2. Of course they have E, they've been handed a licence to print money, so to speak, by government. Since when was business all that interested in creating jobs and job security for the benefit of their staff? The bottom line will always dictate employment practice and these benefactors of the business world will, for the most part, always wish to have the job done by the least number of people for the minimum outlay.
Many of the world's population will be able to sleep easier in their beds, whilst jobs and profit would have been created
3. That's a rather idealized view E, if I might say so. Will the jobs be worthwhile having and who will benefit from the profit but the shareholders and elite of the businesses concerned?
Finally I wouldn’t attach too much importance to what the Chinese say, as they do quite nicely in acquiring more than enough of the world's resources
1. No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from. What is distasteful in that? Have you, and don't you still enjoy the benefits of that, unlike those previously trapped in the USSR system of old?
2. You talk in terms Zulu of a separate big nasty business versus a poor down trodden employee who only considers the bottom line. That is a very old fashioned and negative view point. Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make, and no private company has a "licence to print money". Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay. Fail to meet performance targets, and yes the employee gets to know all about the lack of profit, with someone else being 'positioned' to do that instead.
There are of course some employers who do not look after their staff, but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff, training them, and ensuring their working conditions are good so that the company can achieve the best profits through contented staff looking after valuable customers. Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created. A good healthy company prides itself in that. Of course the system can dictate a reversal of fortunes with a loss of jobs, but that will never be erradicated. Such is business life.
continued...................[/quote]
1. No, it is not totally as it has given this and many a western country security, comfort and a reasonably good life style that the majority of us are still benefiting from.
There is plenty that is wrong with a system that, as a result of this desire to seize ‘opportunity’, the entire banking and financial structure of the west was all but brought down - and are we really enjoying the fruits of this healthy business atmosphere when one can expect minimal return on money saved yet be expected to pay top rates for money borrowed?
This current mess is the result of greed nothing more nothing less and that is one of the more distasteful aspects of largely unregulated ‘bottom line' business.
Modern companies are in a very competative world where profits are far harder to make
....and it certainly shows in the cuts to staffing levels seen regularly and the reluctance to employ people on a permanent basis relying instead on the short time contract and reduced job security.
no private company has a "licence to print money
With current government proposals regarding climate change that's just what they'll have recourse to.
Yes it can be a dog eat dog environment, but that leads to healthy internal and external company development with the work force benefiting in terms of job security and pay
As many unfortunate people on here and around the country have found to their cost.
but in my experience medium to large corporate companies especially very activily pursue a policy of attracting the best staff,
You have indeed been fortunate in that regard E - many have not.
Higher profits from a positive minded company leads to expansion with extra jobs created
However in many cases it's a matter of directors and shareholders first.
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.......................
3. If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile. Short of having a revolution, their will always be shareholders who have invested their money in a company who should receive a dividend once in a while ( many businesses have failed to produce that in the past, present, and probably will not in the future - just read the FT). THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.
With the environmental business what is wrong with staff being recruited, trained with new skills, developed within the business, and enjoying the profit of success? This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe. Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.
At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time :D ;) ;)
If a job with pay is available then to most people it is worthwhile
....and that's the very thing many employers exploit in these 'new’ conditions - a case of "If you don't like it, there's plenty more to choose from"
THere will also exist the 'bosses', who are in fact not necessarily "the elite" in the way you mean Zulu, but men and women who have worked hard up through the ranks, with training given by the company, to manage the business at all levels.
However laudable E, they will occupy the top table and would, I imagine, be predisposed to run their business in the most reliable way possible - by keeping outgoings low and profits high.
and enjoying the profit of success? This is not Dickensian England, but a 21st century member of Europe. Let's enjoy the new age, and rejoice in the opportunities presented.
Can you really say that E? The 'new age' has certainly shown that employees are the first to know when business gets into trouble. This 'new age' has shown - in many cases - business to be rather indifferent to the needs of customers. Is it too much to ask for a degree of morality in business practice?
At times I can favour the Marxist approach, but it is not practicable at this point in time
The idea of employing Marxist ideals is a busted flush E - I'm certainly no advocate for the cause.
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Is there no end to this corruption?
"The research institute run by the head of the UN’s climate body has handed out a series of environmental awards to companies that have given it financial support, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7177323/Climate-change-research-bungle.html
::) ::)
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meanwhile yet another scientist has "accidently" been hitting the delete button, oh how clumsy >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249035/How-Met-Office-blocked-questions-mans-role-hockey-stick-climate-row.html
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Oh, and yet more...
"New errors in IPCC climate change report"
"Despite these checks, a diagram used to demonstrate the potential for generating electricity from wave power has been found to contain numerous errors."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7177230/New-errors-in-IPCC-climate-change-report.html
Hands up how many people thought the UN IPCC was the definitive authority on climate issues...
...you were had, big time.
;) 8-)
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meanwhile yet another scientist has "accidently" been hitting the delete button, oh how clumsy >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1249035/How-Met-Office-blocked-questions-mans-role-hockey-stick-climate-row.html
That's an amazing story. :o :o
Thanks for posting, Alf! :y
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Here it is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8500443.stm
And in the space of 2 months :o
With the weather experienced in the UK it is hardly surprising that a poll will reflect a small percentage increase in people who do not believe in global warming. The rise from 15% to 25% who say they do not believe is hardly earth shattering. ;) ;)
Ah, and just to add January 2010 has been the warmest on average, world wide, for 32 years:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/2010/02/2010_will_be_a_very_warm_year.html
Note: This is by "Dr Spencer is a leading and well-qualified climate change sceptic"
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it. Now that can be continually debated! ;) ;)
Yes, climate change IS taking place: the question is what is causing it
I do agree with you E - although as far as I'm concerned I tend to lean towards the solar camp rather than the anthropogenic.
The real matter for concern is what can be done to lessen the effects of this change on humanity.
With the emphasis on changing our behaviour in a misguided attempt to arrest this change - and all the billions and infringement on personal liberty and choice that it will cost - the real goal of developing sound technology to combat change will be all but ignored for the rather blunt and inelegant tool of taxation, increased pricing and strict control (for the masses at least) of energy use.
This climate change, already part of the earth's cycle, cannot be stopped in my view, and the sooner government's realize this and stop trying to achieve the impossible, the sooner we can develop sensible ways to ensure our continued stewardship of the planet.
OK, I'll agree that climate change is taking place. I'm inclined to think that it has been doing so for about 4.5 billion years.
What we need to quantify is the rate of change over time. We need to look at a number of timescales as well - how rapid has the change been over the last 10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 years? And then we need to analyse episodes occurring during those ranges.
This is hard science, albeit statistically based, and I'm sure it is being done. It's not the same science as the study of atmospheric physics, which is at least as difficult to carry out successfully. Nor are either of these disciplines the same as, or even closely related to, Ecology, Anthropology, Meteorology and Geography. Yet inputs from all of these distinct academic areas (and many others) are being put into the media blender and attributed to "Climate Scientists".
"A little learning is a dangerous thing" should be emblazoned upon the entrance of every Newsroom in the journalistic firmament. :)
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Pachauri. What a scumbag.
Now he's after frightening our kids.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HesdOJdLN-k[/media]
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Another work of fiction?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7018533.ece
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No comments tonight............ :y
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No comments tonight............ :y
Only yours.
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http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/158214/The-great-climate-change-retreat
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5 days without a post .... and you were the last .... but then you had to wake it up again ..
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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And another one.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026932.ece
This is beginning to get a bit silly
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I don't even look at it anymore...... ::) ::) ::)
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And another one.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026932.ece
This is beginning to get a bit silly
...and another one:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/15/hatton_on_hurricanes/
;)
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The wheels are coming of the wagon but they still keep trying to push it anyway. :)
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The wheels are coming of the wagon but they still keep trying to push it anyway. :)
Yes ::) ;D ;D
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516
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Wrong. 517.
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To paraphrase Vic Reeves - he wouldnt let it lie. ::)
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And another one.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026932.ece
This is beginning to get a bit silly
...and another one:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/15/hatton_on_hurricanes/
;)
just been reading that :y
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zombi ;D
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"TREES will not uproot themselves and embark on blood-soaked killing sprees by 2035, global warming experts have admitted."
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/trees-will-not-become-unstoppable-killing-machines%2c-admit-climate-scientists-201002022433/
;D ;D ;D
A nice dig at the collapsing integrity of the IPCC. ;) ;D :y
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And don't think I forgot about this one either!
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nah, alive again ;D ;D ;D
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Impressed .. you went 5 days without posting in it ....
patches working then .. ?? :) :) :)
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Impressed .. you went 5 days without posting in it ....
patches working then .. ?? :) :) :)
If you insist E, - bear with me however, I'm a bit the worse for wear on prescription meds.
[size=12]Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels[/size]
[size=10]Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.[/size]
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall
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One wheel on my wagon.................. :)
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Just when I was starting to beleive them!
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Just when I was starting to beleive them!
I'm glad that you've been rescued from certain doom through mind control Alfie :y :y
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Impressed .. you went 5 days without posting in it ....
patches working then .. ?? :) :) :)
If you insist E, - bear with me however, I'm a bit the worse for wear on prescription meds.
[size=12]Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels[/size]
[size=10]Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.[/size]
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall
The only thing it really proves is that peer review has an effect.
I was at uni with a guy who dis-proved a number of mathematical publications that one of our lecturers had authored. He even taught his colleagues how to do their finals "wrong" so that they got high marks!! "Do it like this for the exam then like this in the big wide world."
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Impressed .. you went 5 days without posting in it ....
patches working then .. ?? :) :) :)
If you insist E, - bear with me however, I'm a bit the worse for wear on prescription meds.
[size=12]Climate scientists withdraw journal claims of rising sea levels[/size]
[size=10]Scientists have been forced to withdraw a study on projected sea level rise due to global warming after finding mistakes that undermined the findings.[/size]
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall
The only thing it really proves is that peer review has an effect.
I was at uni with a guy who dis-proved a number of mathematical publications that one of our lecturers had authored. He even taught his colleagues how to do their finals "wrong" so that they got high marks!! "Do it like this for the exam then like this in the big wide world."
The only thing it really proves is that peer review has an effect
I agree that peer review is of the utmost importance Chris - especially as the science is constantly evolving - however the rush to publish such studies without having a thorough review beforehand is somewhat disturbing.
This is more concerning when one considers the raw fact that the decisions presently being made by our Government - in terms of taxation to discourage energy use and the fundamental change to our personal habits and liberty in the effort to lessen our individual 'carbon footprint’ - seem to be based on the utterances of the IPCC through such findings.
Announcing the formal retraction of the paper from the journal, Siddall said: "It's one of those things that happens. People make mistakes and mistakes happen in science." He said there were two separate technical mistakes in the paper, which were pointed out by other scientists after it was published. A formal retraction was required, rather than a correction, because the errors undermined the study's conclusion.
In my view, this indecent haste simply de-values the study.
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I'm not sure that peer review is of the utmost importance.
I came across this comment, which succinctly points out the flaws in the system.
Peer review certainly is flawed. Accepted wisdom once was that peptic ulcers were caused by lifestyle choices. Then a couple of Aussies wrote a paper claiming that peptic ulcers were caused by a bacteria called Helicobacter Pylori. Well...weren't they just pilloried and ridiculed. Until 20 years or so later when Drs. Marshall and Warren received the Nobel Prize for Medicine. Once the scholastics take hold of an idea, right or wrong, it is very, very difficult to loosen their grip. Unfortunately those self-same scholastics are going to be the ones reviewing all the papers that come their way. They are generally the people in the environment with the most to lose should their ideas be overthrown. So should someone actually think a new and peerless thought that thought is almost sure to be rejected precisely because it is new and peerless. Not because it may be incorrect but simply because no one has ever thought it before and there are no peers. The list of paradigm changing concepts that have suffered this fate throughout history is very long.
From commenter Dana Still on this page:
http://www.themarknews.com/articles/903-reviewing-peer-review
:y
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I'm not sure that peer review is of the utmost importance.
I came across this comment, which succinctly points out the flaws in the system.
Peer review certainly is flawed. Accepted wisdom once was that peptic ulcers were caused by lifestyle choices. Then a couple of Aussies wrote a paper claiming that peptic ulcers were caused by a bacteria called Helicobacter Pylori. Well...weren't they just pilloried and ridiculed. Until 20 years or so later when Drs. Marshall and Warren received the Nobel Prize for Medicine. Once the scholastics take hold of an idea, right or wrong, it is very, very difficult to loosen their grip. Unfortunately those self-same scholastics are going to be the ones reviewing all the papers that come their way. They are generally the people in the environment with the most to lose should their ideas be overthrown. So should someone actually think a new and peerless thought that thought is almost sure to be rejected precisely because it is new and peerless. Not because it may be incorrect but simply because no one has ever thought it before and there are no peers. The list of paradigm changing concepts that have suffered this fate throughout history is very long.
From commenter Dana Still on this page:
http://www.themarknews.com/articles/903-reviewing-peer-review
:y
I am of course assuming that such reviews are carried out out by people expert in the same discipline who are also doing so with an open mind and with the best interests of the science at heart.
The worrying fact that so much reliance has been placed on these studies by governments eager to 'do something - anything', is disturbing to say the least.
Irrespective of this mess of confused findings - created largely by the scientists working these climate studies - there must be some review process of the results of this research, and who better to do it than other people expert in the field.
Such work must be checked before publication - especially when the stakes are so high.
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No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
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No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
Why am I not surprised? There's so much money swilling around in all this, it's squeezed out the honesty. :(
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No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
I'm afraid I have to say that's sensible talk Zulu.
The debate is a technical one with very subtle pointers. It is not well served by being aired in circles where the understanding is poor (and I include this forum in that since no-one here has publicly announced their professional involvement in climate analysis). What is needed is an efficient network of talented climate scientists that are trusted by the majority to reach the right conclusions.
The anti-AGW camp appear to be purely interested in discrediting - I say "appear" because I haven't heard a real anti-AGW scientist AFAIK.
Before I get a six-foot long reply with a million references I must declare that I am not interested enough to go looking too hard since my specialities are in a different field. :)
-
No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
I'm afraid I have to say that's sensible talk Zulu.
The debate is a technical one with very subtle pointers. It is not well served by being aired in circles where the understanding is poor (and I include this forum in that since no-one here has publicly announced their professional involvement in climate analysis). What is needed is an efficient network of talented climate scientists that are trusted by the majority to reach the right conclusions.
The anti-AGW camp appear to be purely interested in discrediting - I say "appear" because I haven't heard a real anti-AGW scientist AFAIK.
Before I get a six-foot long reply with a million references I must declare that I am not interested enough to go looking too hard since my specialities are in a different field. :)
Which is what we have not had to date. Hence the problem.
Incidentally, the term "climate scientist" is a bit grey since it has only become a specific university discipline during the past few years. Furthermore, climate is intensely complex and covers a multitude of disciplines from meteorology, atmospheric physics, solar physics, chemistry, mathematics, computer science, geology, paleontology and spectrometry, to name but a few, so it is doubtful whether any "climate scientist" could have sufficient knowledge of all these subjects Many (especially on the alarmist side) tend to slag off remarks by qualified people if they do not have a specific "climate scientist" nomenclature. It is, of course, as daft as slagging off a neurosurgeon because he's not a general practitioner.
::) ::)
-
No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
I'm afraid I have to say that's sensible talk Zulu.
The debate is a technical one with very subtle pointers. It is not well served by being aired in circles where the understanding is poor (and I include this forum in that since no-one here has publicly announced their professional involvement in climate analysis). What is needed is an efficient network of talented climate scientists that are trusted by the majority to reach the right conclusions.
The anti-AGW camp appear to be purely interested in discrediting - I say "appear" because I haven't heard a real anti-AGW scientist AFAIK.
Before I get a six-foot long reply with a million references I must declare that I am not interested enough to go looking too hard since my specialities are in a different field. :)
Which is what we have not had to date. Hence the problem.
Incidentally, the term "climate scientist" is a bit grey since it has only become a specific university discipline during the past few years. Furthermore, climate is intensely complex and covers a multitude of disciplines from meteorology, atmospheric physics, solar physics, chemistry, mathematics, computer science, geology, paleontology and spectrometry, to name but a few, so it is doubtful whether any "climate scientist" could have sufficient knowledge of all these subjects Many (especially on the alarmist side) tend to slag off remarks by qualified people if they do not have a specific "climate scientist" nomenclature. It is, of course, as daft as slagging off a neurosurgeon because he's not a general practitioner.
::) ::)
Yes. I agree. I was using the term "climate scientist" in that vague way to imply someone who had some legitimate(?) schooling/experience on the subject rather than just intelligent observers.
Incidentally, I'm not sure that computer science would be a necessary skill as it should be possible for that function to be delegated to a separate individual with that skill.
-
Since the
scam whole AGW theory is based on computer climate modelling, I would suggest that it really is important to have proper computer scientists on board.
-
Wind farms. What do people expect – electricity?
http://www.climategate.com/wind-turbines-the-truth?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+climategate%2FROux+%28CLIMATEGATE%29
::)
-
540
-
Wikipedia has a long and not particularly good article on peer review at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review
I didn't believe that this was how it actually worked until I read a few more web references, which all said more or less the same. It seems that academic politics and in-fighting can suppress research.
But the old-fashioned peer review concept is only relevant for articles published in the learned journals. Many of the reports we hear about don't actually come from that path; they are papers presented at conferences called by bodies of lesser reputation. They are generally refereed, but the referees may not be completely unbiassed, as they are always chosen by the organisers of the conference, who quite often have a political axe to grind.
Worse still, many of these papers are "leaked" or simply given to the non-specialist press at the same time as they are presented to the academic community, and the exposure they receive far exceeds that of the voices of caution responding to them. In other words, it's a bandwagon. :( :( :(
-
No wonder people are not only confused but also concerned;
Thomas Karl, the head of Obama's new Climate Change office has been criticized for trying to suppress contradictory scientific data on climate change.
The following inclination may also be part of the problem;
He said the people who run the agencies in charge of climate monitoring are too narrowly focused, and he worries that the creation of the new office "would give the same small group of people the chance to speak on the issue and exclude others" whose views might diverge from theirs
Read more at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/22/tom-karl-tried-to-suppress-data-critics-charge/#/scitech/planet-earth/ci.New+Climate+Agency+Head+Tried+to+Suppress+Data%2C+Critics+Charge.opinion
I'm afraid I have to say that's sensible talk Zulu.
The debate is a technical one with very subtle pointers. It is not well served by being aired in circles where the understanding is poor (and I include this forum in that since no-one here has publicly announced their professional involvement in climate analysis). What is needed is an efficient network of talented climate scientists that are trusted by the majority to reach the right conclusions.
The anti-AGW camp appear to be purely interested in discrediting - I say "appear" because I haven't heard a real anti-AGW scientist AFAIK.
Before I get a six-foot long reply with a million references I must declare that I am not interested enough to go looking too hard since my specialities are in a different field. :)
Before I get a six-foot long reply with a million references
;D ;D ;D rest easy Chris ;D ;D
It is not well served by being aired in circles where the understanding is poor
....following that logic Chris the majority of people in this country should be denied a vote, as they have no real understanding of the complex issues that need to be addressed to keep our Nation running in some form of balance.
For the record, I am of the view that climate change is real but caused by the natural cycle rather than wholly human activity.
It is essential however that when assertions are made, such as those by the IPCC, which will fundamentally alter our pattern of day to day behaviour and provide government with hitherto unachievable legislative power, we have the right to question the validity of the reasons given for this change.
Not to do so is an abrogation of our personal responsibility - surely it's not too much to ask for the results of this science to be based on properly constructed models, realistically reviewed, and free from interference from partisan groups and interested disciples of greater state control and wealth accumulation?
-
US Senator calls for Criminal investigation into 'Global Warming'
Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) today asked the Obama administration to investigate what he called “the greatest scientific scandal of our generation” — the actions of climate scientists revealed by the Climategate Files, and the subsequent admissions by the editors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fourth Assessment Report (AR4).
Senator Inhofe also called for former Vice President Al Gore to be called back to the Senate to testify.
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/12673/53/
One can but hope. ;)
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Are we aiming to have the longest running thread over a load of unproven tosh, history should have shown this by now.......... ::) ::) ::)
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UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
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UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
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UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
Hardly. The film was a deliberate attempt at propaganda with no allowance for opposing views (many of which, if not all, have since been vindicated).
Forcing youngsters to watch one-sided apocalyptic drivel in the classroom is child abuse. No other way to describe it.
>:( >:(
-
UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
Hardly. The film was a deliberate attempt at propaganda with no allowance for opposing views (many of which, if not all, have since been vindicated).
Forcing youngsters to watch one-sided apocalyptic drivel in the classroom is child abuse. No other way to describe it.
>:( >:(
I knew you'd bite!! Off down to the bookies to collect my winnings. :D
-
UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
Hardly. The film was a deliberate attempt at propaganda with no allowance for opposing views (many of which, if not all, have since been vindicated).
Forcing youngsters to watch one-sided apocalyptic drivel in the classroom is child abuse. No other way to describe it.
>:( >:(
I knew you'd bite!! Off down to the bookies to collect my winnings. :D
You toe-rag! ;) ;D ;D ;D
-
UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
Hardly. The film was a deliberate attempt at propaganda with no allowance for opposing views (many of which, if not all, have since been vindicated).
Forcing youngsters to watch one-sided apocalyptic drivel in the classroom is child abuse. No other way to describe it.
>:( >:(
I knew you'd bite!! Off down to the bookies to collect my winnings. :D
There's only one justifiable response to that Chris..........
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNAONxFU4U&feature=related[/media]
-
UKIP would ban Al Gore film in schools
Al Gore's global warming film would be banned in schools under plans by the UK Independence Party (UKIP) to court the climate sceptic vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7309204/UKIP-would-ban-Al-Gore-film-in-schools.html
Can't disagree with that. :y
Shouldn't have been shown in the first place. >:(
Ah! That desire to suppress one side of the argument in order to get one's own view across. ;)
Hardly. The film was a deliberate attempt at propaganda with no allowance for opposing views (many of which, if not all, have since been vindicated).
Forcing youngsters to watch one-sided apocalyptic drivel in the classroom is child abuse. No other way to describe it.
>:( >:(
I knew you'd bite!! Off down to the bookies to collect my winnings. :D
There's only one justifiable response to that Chris..........
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNAONxFU4U&feature=related[/media]
So how did the kid lose his front teeth I wonder? ;D
-
Can we all get Range Rovers please, because this 'Global warming' is taking far too long..................! ::)
Its cold, misty and snowy here. :-?
-
"Building expensive wind turbines and other green energy investments is expected to cost Britain €161bn by 2020. That is more than Germany (€72bn), France (€56bn) and Italy (€23bn) will be spending combined, according to research by Matthew Sinclair of the TaxPayers’ Alliance. The good news is that not all of this is being picked up by the taxpayer; the bad news is that the private firms that are shelling out need to make a return on their investments, which means higher prices for consumers, especially given that the whole issue suffers from significant political risk. Citigroup calculates they will need to meet a hurdle rate of 9.2 per cent before tax, which means that prices will eventually have to double for firms to make a decent return on their capital. As ever, those who will suffer the most are the poor who already spend a large proportion of their incomes on utility bills. This is something the middle classes, who don’t mind paying more to assuage their green conscience, should bear in mind."
http://www.cityam.com/news-and-analysis/allister-heath/green-rules-pushing-energy-prices
When will the madness end? >:( >:( >:(
Wind has provided less than 1% of our needs over the last three months, yet these fools want to spend this much money on more?
-
So its official then,the met office has stated that this winter has been the coldest for over 31 years.
So much for their claims of a man made climate change.
Alfie.
-
So its official then,the met office has stated that this winter has been the coldest for over 31 years.
So much for their claims of a man made climate change.
Alfie.
Although it must be said Alfie that recent weather patterns can't necessarily be divorced from causes that now exist as a result of global climate change - howsoever generated.
-
So its official then,the met office has stated that this winter has been the coldest for over 31 years.
So much for their claims of a man made climate change.
Alfie.
Although it must be said Alfie that recent weather patterns can't necessarily be divorced from causes that now exist as a result of global climate change - howsoever generated.
Though my knowledge of weather patterns is not at an expert level, my research tends to suggest that the weather we experience now is not unlike previous historic weather patterns. It merely depends on how far back you look (or are able to look). Incidentally, there has not been a single tornado in the US this past month, the first time for at least sixty years. However , there have been 5 other tornado-free months since 1950. It is inconceivable that, at some point in our past, there has not been a similarly tornado-free February. ;)
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/25571/2010-brings-first-tornadofree.asp
Whenever people tell me about climate change, I ask them to tell me exactly how they think the climate has changed.
Soon shuts them up. ;)
Addendum:
Mind you, if I could have a share of £63,245,372, I tell you all about how the climate is changing .....
(Who thought up the acronym SCORCHIO? ::) ::)!
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/03/climate-parasites.html
-
So its official then,the met office has stated that this winter has been the coldest for over 31 years.
So much for their claims of a man made climate change.
Alfie.
Although it must be said Alfie that recent weather patterns can't necessarily be divorced from causes that now exist as a result of global climate change - howsoever generated.
Though my knowledge of weather patterns is not at an expert level, my research tends to suggest that the weather we experience now is not unlike previous historic weather patterns. It merely depends on how far back you look (or are able to look). Incidentally, there has not been a single tornado in the US this past month, the first time for at least sixty years. However , there have been 5 other tornado-free months since 1950. It is inconceivable that, at some point in our past, there has not been a similarly tornado-free February. ;)
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/25571/2010-brings-first-tornadofree.asp
Whenever people tell me about climate change, I ask them to tell me exactly how they think the climate has changed.
Soon shuts them up. ;)
Addendum:
Mind you, if I could have a share of £63,245,372, I tell you all about how the climate is changing .....
(Who thought up the acronym SCORCHIO? ::) ::)!
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/03/climate-parasites.html
Studying that one closely! :D
-
Someones on a nice little earner.
alfie
-
Just thought I would pop in and see if this thread was still going....... ::) ::)
-
So its official then,the met office has stated that this winter has been the coldest for over 31 years.
So much for their claims of a man made climate change.
Alfie.
Although it must be said Alfie that recent weather patterns can't necessarily be divorced from causes that now exist as a result of global climate change - howsoever generated.
Though my knowledge of weather patterns is not at an expert level, my research tends to suggest that the weather we experience now is not unlike previous historic weather patterns. It merely depends on how far back you look (or are able to look). Incidentally, there has not been a single tornado in the US this past month, the first time for at least sixty years. However , there have been 5 other tornado-free months since 1950. It is inconceivable that, at some point in our past, there has not been a similarly tornado-free February. ;)
http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/25571/2010-brings-first-tornadofree.asp
Whenever people tell me about climate change, I ask them to tell me exactly how they think the climate has changed.
Soon shuts them up. ;)
Addendum:
Mind you, if I could have a share of £63,245,372, I tell you all about how the climate is changing .....
(Who thought up the acronym SCORCHIO? ::) ::)!
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/03/climate-parasites.html
Whenever people tell me about climate change, I ask them to tell me exactly how they think the climate has changed.
It most certainly has done Nick, I had a very agreeable luncheon in the garden today under a blazing sun complimented by a more than bearable air temperature. 8-) 8-)
-
The Met office can tell us how the climate will change on planet earth for the foreseeable future but is no longer confident enough to predict any of the seasons in the UK. :o ::)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8551416.stm
-
The Met office can tell us how the climate will change on planet earth for the foreseeable future but is no longer confident enough to predict any of the seasons in the UK. :o ::)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8551416.stm
They say:
However, it said its short-term forecasts are "extremely accurate".
That's where a bloke with a pair of binoculars goes outside and has a look then phones the result back?
-
Apparently they feel confident to predict 1 month ahead, but not a whole season. They dont have a problem with predicting 50 years ahead though, probably because they wont be around to take the flak when it transpires that they were wrong again. ;D ::)
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Apparently they feel confident to predict 1 month ahead, but not a whole season. They dont have a problem with predicting 50 years ahead though, probably because they wont be around to take the flak when it transpires that they were wrong again. ;D ::)
If only one of them would take a month off and listen to the twaddle they put out!
-
Almost forgot.........almost ::)
-
It was always about money and power, not science:
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/03/amazongate-part-ii-seeing-redd.html
:(
-
This must be one of the longest running threads ever.
Alfie.
-
This must be one of the longest running threads ever.
Alfie.
Yes
-
This must be one of the longest running threads ever.
Alfie.
Yes indeed! & you are the bugger that got it off the ground, you upstart ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
This must be one of the longest running threads ever.
Alfie.
Yes
Only 'cos you insist on the "last word" ... :)
-
This must be one of the longest running threads ever.
Alfie.
Yes
Only 'cos you insist on the "last word" ... :)
Yes
-
I still have not changed my mind,its a BIG con by those who benifit by it. HUGELY! Loads of money going into someones pockets.
Alfie.
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
Yes
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
This begs the question: "How long is a piece of string thread?" ;D
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
Yes
When ??
(can I have the ticket franchise please?? )
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
Yes
When ??
(can I have the ticket franchise please?? )
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No
-
Who brought this back? thought it had got burried, at last...................... ::) ::) ::) ::)
Umm STMO you should be shot...... :D :D :D
Yes
When ??
(can I have the ticket franchise please?? )
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No
Spoilsport ... :-/ :-/ :-/
;D ;D ;D
-
Just thought I'd cut the 'bus' thread down to size. ;D
-
Are still trying ???
:D :D :D :D :D
-
I start to wonder this thread will burry me ;D
-
I start to wonder this thread will burry me ;D
Perhaps someone should burry STMO then this may die a death........ ;D ;D ;D