Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

33556

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 18 December 2007, 14:37:22 »

I'm sure I've asked this before, but does anyone know if the manifolds are the same on all V6s? 2.5/2.6/3.0/3.2? I appreciate that injector flow rates will differ, but what about the basic ali casting?

Kevin

33557

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 18 December 2007, 12:00:01 »

It's all gone quiet.

Appologies for the silence. I've spoken to Jeremy today and explained the current situation. I'm waiting on him to get hold of some vertical toroidal tanks at the moment. I explained that we weren't all 100% ready to proceed at the moment but that a core of us are chomping at the bit and he proposed that he'll give us some sort of OOF reference to quote to get a discount. That way we can all order individually as and when we're ready and sort out payment with Jeremy directly.

Kevin

33558

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 10 December 2007, 09:32:49 »

Kevin - these injectors look frightiningly familiar, albeit a different colour!

Yep. Same style. Different colour of coil makes me think they might be a different impedance but certainly mechanically identical.

OK. From what I can see we have 4 of us ready to go ahead now - Paulus, x25xe, Jim and myself.

Have I missed anyone?

I'm going to give the guy a call today and see how he wants to play it. I'm hoping he's happy for us to contact him and pay individually but failing that I guess we'll have to have a whip round.

Kevin

33559

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 30 November 2007, 17:02:24 »

How much would a front end kit be for a V8 out of curiosity Presumably there is very little difference other than the extra 2 injectors and some additions to the loom. Assuming of course the ECU can handle 8 injectors.

The ECU can indeed handle 8 injectors. I believe the vapouriser will handle up to 300 BHP so you ought to be OK there so yes, it is in theory just a matter of injector valves and a loom with the extra injector wiring. I believe I have seen him selling 8 cylinder kits on EBay.

There's one from him here but it looks like a mixer:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220001798487

Kevin

33560

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 29 November 2007, 17:46:47 »

This guy was talking about 300 for a vert. toridal tank rear end kit so presumably including the valve. I'll ask the question.

Kevin

33561

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 29 November 2007, 09:25:56 »

I need to speak to the guy and find out what the score is. I am not sure whether he expects the whole lot in one order or whether it's a case of "mention OOF when you order and get a discount".

My preference would be to get things moving quite soon but I'm sure we can accommodate everyone, perhaps by ordering in two "phases" if individual orders are not possible.

Kevin

33562

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 16:23:47 »

What do breakdown people say about no spare wheel?

I've been through this with kit cars. Basically, if your car is designed to carry a spare and you don't have one, you're in trouble.

You could argue that, after the LPG conversion, your car is not. My feeling is that the spare will be chucked in the boot anyway, except for the occasions when I need every inch of boot space.

Kevin

33563

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 16:03:09 »

As for the small size of a donut, has anyone knowledge about having dual tanks? ie a donut for around town (to maximize boot space for tools etc), and a bigger tank, that lives in the garage, to connect together when going on a long haul!?

Whilst you can have dual tanks with no problem, they both have to be permanently installed.

unless you bring the pipework through the boot under the parcel shelf i guess shielding will be a neccesity!

The pipework has to run downwards from the tank to the exit from the vehicle interior as gas is heavier than air and there has to be a mechanism for leaking gas to vent to the outside. Down behind the rear boot trim panel, through the skin behind the rear bumper, across the rear of the car and up the driver's side with the petrol lines is the only way I can think of.

I'd just like to keep the facility to fold the seats down for long loads.  :-/

I guess a smaller cylinder like James' one would be OK. It doesn't cover the whole aperture behind the rear seats :-/ Certainly simpler to fit.

Kevin

33564

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 15:11:33 »

It would appear that the tanks that fit that area are quite small.  Also, remember you will not be able to change any bulbs in the light cluster without removing the tank.

You'll be limited to 60L, Maybe a little more. I intend to see what I can fit in this area as I'd rather not lose any boot space. However, it'll be a more challenging install in other respects, because the exhaust back box is right underneath this area and LPG pipes must not be routed close to exhausts (without shielding).

Kevin

33565

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 14:08:08 »

The kits I'm referring to are the front end - I.E. excluding the tank so you are free to choose the tank and he is aware of that.

Kevin

33566

General Discussion Area / Re: LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 12:20:56 »

What sort of time frames are we looking at for "the gathering"?

I'm pretty flexible really. Subject to having a venue, the LPG kits and enough cars in the right state of readiness we can do it whenever suits.

Is there a total, all parts + labour.

We've only really considered DIY kits. For parts for a full DIY installation I'd say around £700 once you've got the tank and all other bits and pieces. For a professional installation I believe Elite Pete found a guy who could do it around the £1k mark. It might also be worth giving Jeremy a call as he does installations too. I'll drop you a PM with his phone number.

I'd say that whilst most of the installation is pretty straightforward, and help is available for the tricky bits, it's probably not something to tackle as your first automotive "project".

Kevin

33567

General Discussion Area / LPG Kit Bulk Buy - Who's up for it?

« on: 28 November 2007, 11:08:55 »

Well, JamesV6CDX's LPG conversion went very smoothly, the kit seems to include everything required and there were no issues whatsoever fitting it to an Omega.

I also heard back from Jeremy today regarding the bulk buy I proposed and he's prepared to offer a discount of 10% on the front end kits giving a saving of about £50 off the EBay price of £495.

Regarding the fitting, James and I were thinking about this at the weekend. 3 of us spent the best part of a weekend getting his car up and running. We did everything except fitting the LPG tank and mounting and connecting the filler and it was pretty hard work. We did spend a bit of time chasing round for parts on Saturday morning and the obligatory breaks for tea, bacon sarnies and (later in the day) beer. I'm not sure that we'd get a lot of kits fitted at an "LPG party" if we were going to tackle complete installs. However, as long as people are happy to tackle the straightforward bits themselves (tank and filler fitting, pipe & cable routing, vapouriser mounting, etc.) I think a party where we finish off the details and do the tricky bits, make electrical connections, check systems over and adjust fuel maps would be a good idea.

Having seen James' install I'm certainly happy to go ahead with it myself. Do we have any more who are prepared to firm up their interest in this?

Kevin

33568

General Discussion Area / Re: Amazing Omega V6 Fuel Economy?

« on: 18 December 2007, 12:56:44 »

is it worth me getting a bit of that  

.. But you've already got an LPG Omega

Just need to pop another gearbox in and maybe an SGI front-end!

Kevin

I've bought a second hand mixer system for the tank...I was considering fitting it until I get my butt in to gear and fit a SGI setup.

Are they really that bad?

I would say it's not worth fitting one, and then having to hack the car about again to fit a SGI setup.


Kevin

33569

General Discussion Area / Re: Amazing Omega V6 Fuel Economy?

« on: 18 December 2007, 12:27:28 »

is it worth me getting a bit of that  

.. But you've already got an LPG Omega

Just need to pop another gearbox in and maybe an SGI front-end!

Kevin

33570

General Discussion Area / Re: Amazing Omega V6 Fuel Economy?

« on: 17 December 2007, 21:34:23 »

The real key is to get the petrol injector times to be the same for a given condition of engine speed and load on petrol as they are on LPG. This is what the 2 curves show in the mapping display. The LPG injector time you need to achieve this is not that relevant. In this scenario the petrol ECU is not having to correct the fuelling away from the petrol equivalent when on LPG. This is important because the petrol ECU is not making adjustments under all engine conditions, only when load and speed are relatively constant. Getting this right gives the correct fuelling not only in closed loop running when cruising when on LPG but also when it's open-loop (acceleration, blipping the throttle, etc)

Bear in mind that you are looking at the 2 times against manifold pressure, which is an indicator of engine load, but the multiplier just converts petrol injector times to LPG injector times regardless of load. It also doesn't consider RPM so try to collect the petrol and LPG curves under roughly the same driving conditions, and during conditions when it'll be in closed loop mode (cruising at various speeds and loads - maybe drive the same route twice at the same speeds, once on petrol, and again on gas).

When I mapped the Westfield (on petrol, of course, but the principle is the same) I saw the same as James. I very quickly got it driveable but it took considerably longer to get it perfect. Sometimes too many mapping points can be your achilles' heel if you don't actually need them.

Kevin