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[Nick W]

Changing how we pay the tax to use roads is trying to bandage the symptom.
No politician is going to admit to the real problem: current transport usage isn't sustainable, and we all need to reduce it. That requires a social change, and governments trying to force those never ends well.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I must get arouind to building my 1952 Sunbeam S8 - no road tax or MOT required! I suppose I will need to have a little insurance?

Ron.

Wifey’s captur is zero tax.

My shag is only 20 quid

[JDX]

Electric is the future, it's a no brainer - the fuel volumes are decreasing & electric vehicle numbers will continue to increase.
Adding to the fuel duty can be transferred to electric when the volumes are right - whatever source is used, paying on the basis of how much use something is fair. 

[Kevin Wood]

Electric is the future, it's a no brainer - the fuel volumes are decreasing & electric vehicle numbers will continue to increase.
Adding to the fuel duty can be transferred to electric when the volumes are right - whatever source is used, paying on the basis of how much use something is fair. 

.. right up until we run out of electricity supply, which won't take very long.

If electric cars are the future, NickW's social change will have to happen, and in spades!

[Bigron]

[/quote]

My shag is only 20 quid
[/quote]

What's that for, short time behind King's Cross station? 

Ron.

[LC0112G]

.. right up until we run out of electricity supply, which won't take very long.

If electric cars are the future, NickW's social change will have to happen, and in spades!

This ^^^^

We have spare electricity generating capacity to charge enough cars to do about one-third of the number of miles that UK car owners currently drive annually. So we either need to build another 3-5 Hinkley Point sized power stations (in addition to those already in existence or planned), or cut the number of miles we drive by 50%-70%.

[ronnyd]

The well known view, still stands: scrap the VED, add duty to the fuel so it is relative to how much driving you do 

I have supported that view for many years, especially when driving company cars many hundreds of miles a week, or over 100k miles in a year.

However, in 2017 we must review that opinion, as with a growing number of electric / hybrid cars on the road, the opportunities for the government of the day to generate tax via a usage petrol/diesel charge is naturally going to decline.  For the next five years perhaps tax paid on fuel instead of VED is still a valid cause, but after that I don't think so.  Over the next five years the answer is to implement road charging via ANPR systems, or by other means.  Toll booths are so out of date, so electronic systems will be required, but with some form of security to avoid criminals using your number plate, cloned, such as a "fingerprint" / chip built into the genuine plate.

Seeing the number of vehicles around these days with filthy unreadable licence plates, would ANPR be able to read them?

[Bigron]

Having an obscured number plate is an offence and an MOT failure, otherwise I would keep mine in a very dirty state. 

Ron.

[ronnyd]

Having an obscured number plate is an offence and an MOT failure, otherwise I would keep mine in a very dirty state. 

Ron.

Yes Ron, it is, but you still see quite a few around here with obliterated number plates. Especially on our scabby country roads.

[Varche]

The well known view, still stands: scrap the VED, add duty to the fuel so it is relative to how much driving you do 

I guess that might work for leisure drivers, but people who have to use their cars to get to work, and don’t clog up the motorways doing it, would be really peed off. Also, no mention of how the new tax would affect business drivers. If white van man had to pay through the pumps, everything would go up in price.......and I mean everything.

..surely people who have to use their cars to get to work, do exactly that - clog up the motorways! One of my jobs is driving for a living, I spend a fair amount of time on the road & I still think it's the fairest way, white van man included. My elderly mum used do to about 10 miles a week to the shops..it's unfair for her to pay the same amount a sales rep in the same car doing 500 plus, not reasonable?

My wife does a 50 mile round trip, and doesn’t go near a motorway. This is exactly my point, she would just be lumped in with everyone else. And I think you’ll find the proposed rules take into account mileage and roads used, plus time of day.
Of course, this is all pie in the sky at the moment, because every road would need cameras to enforce the rules.

But you arent doing blue sky thinking. Each car factory fitted with a smart box that knows where you are, how fast you are going and how hard you brake etc. Then auto debits from the owners bank account. Nice self contained island(s) of operation.  That will of course be the next criminal area of activity. Hacked boxes that debit STEMO's fat bank account with you trying to prove you didn't drive at that time    Might also be a market in foreign LHD vehicles but the answer to that would be a temp box with very hefty deposit at point of UK entry. Legacy bangers not able to be retrofitted with smart box just taxed at say £1000 a year to encourage them off the roads.

[Bigron]

What an Orwellian scenario!
As with so many things relating to motoring law, the usual presumption of innocent until proven guilty has been turned on its head: we now have to move heaven and earth to clear ourselves of unjust accusations.
Even the DVLA make you pay for their mistakes/inefficiency at £80 per whack! 

Ron.

[STEMO]

The well known view, still stands: scrap the VED, add duty to the fuel so it is relative to how much driving you do 

I guess that might work for leisure drivers, but people who have to use their cars to get to work, and don’t clog up the motorways doing it, would be really peed off. Also, no mention of how the new tax would affect business drivers. If white van man had to pay through the pumps, everything would go up in price.......and I mean everything.

..surely people who have to use their cars to get to work, do exactly that - clog up the motorways! One of my jobs is driving for a living, I spend a fair amount of time on the road & I still think it's the fairest way, white van man included. My elderly mum used do to about 10 miles a week to the shops..it's unfair for her to pay the same amount a sales rep in the same car doing 500 plus, not reasonable?

My wife does a 50 mile round trip, and doesn’t go near a motorway. This is exactly my point, she would just be lumped in with everyone else. And I think you’ll find the proposed rules take into account mileage and roads used, plus time of day.
Of course, this is all pie in the sky at the moment, because every road would need cameras to enforce the rules.

But you arent doing blue sky thinking. Each car factory fitted with a smart box that knows where you are, how fast you are going and how hard you brake etc. Then auto debits from the owners bank account. Nice self contained island(s) of operation.  That will of course be the next criminal area of activity. Hacked boxes that debit STEMO's fat bank account with you trying to prove you didn't drive at that time    Might also be a market in foreign LHD vehicles but the answer to that would be a temp box with very hefty deposit at point of UK entry. Legacy bangers not able to be retrofitted with smart box just taxed at say £1000 a year to encourage them off the roads.

It’s the future, Varche, and you know it.

[Varche]

What an Orwellian scenario!
As with so many things relating to motoring law, the usual presumption of innocent until proven guilty has been turned on its head: we now have to move heaven and earth to clear ourselves of unjust accusations.
Even the DVLA make you pay for their mistakes/inefficiency at £80 per whack! 

Ron.

Easy life. Try living in a European country. Traffic misdemeanour? You might be lucky and get a letter but otherwise it just sits there on file amassing more penalty. You can and should look using your "digital signature" periodically so you can pay them.

It might be funny thinking it is Orwellian but simply facts point to this being the way. More people and not bothering to create more land or limit the population, no joined up public transport plan. Here is another Orwellian suggestion. Pay people a bonus annually for not having a car. Pay people a bonus for having a job near their home. 

[henryd]

I must get arouind to building my 1952 Sunbeam S8 - no road tax or MOT required! I suppose I will need to have a little insurance?

Ron.

Wifey’s captur is zero tax.

My shag is only 20 quid

I knew a girl like that once ,Oh you mean the Jaggggg

[Doctor Gollum]

Petrol and diesel are not the only fuels

Electricity is self taxing... if you charge your electric car every day, you're clearly going to use more than Nana living alone...

Likewise gas