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[Varche]

I am surprised that there isn't a thread on this BBC TV programme that was on last night. For those that didn't watch it the premise was quite simple. The BBC arranged with a number of employers who had a large percentage of immigrant labour on the books to make some vacancies available in the East of England for local unemployed people who complain that "immigrants" have taken all their jobs.

Doubtless the applicants were screened for good TV viewing. It wouldn't have done for them all to have excelled and been taken on after their two days BUT I was shocked by the attitude of the participants who all claimed they wanted work.

- many didn't even bother turning up for their first day.
- Some were late
- The asparagus picker couldn't(wouldn't) follow simple instructions
- The restaurant worker couldn't tie his tie or take customers orders and gave up part way through his shift but stayed and ate as a customer!

It wasn't all bad. The carpenter did a good job and stayed on for 2 weeks to finsih the job.

How attitudes to work have changed!

[STMO999]

I was going to watch that until I remembered it was 'sing up' week and I had to sit on a 6"X6" plastic chair at my son's school for an hour and a half.

[waspy]

I wonder if the "local workers" all had families, after all they're better off on benefits
Would you pick veg on min wage or sit at home & get just about everything paid for
I wana work, but i'm finding it hard to find a job, i've applied for many job positions.
I find the £64.50 a week an insult after 27 years of employment
Yet i could've churned out five kids, lived in rented accommodation & sat on my fat arse most of my life.

The system is very wrong

[mudflap]

The attitude of some, not all, young people were illustrated on the programme, but the attitude of potential employers are worth noting,  in my experience many are prejudiced to people the following categories -

Disabled, even slightly
Racial minorities
Women
Over 50's

Any disabled persons are not shortlisted for a job, unless the employer is fulfilling their govt. quota, many laws exist to protect candidates but in small industries are often ignored.

Racial stereotypes exclude many able people, and can enhance employment prospects for some, the law put simply is that a company's employees must reflect roughly the ethnic ratio of the local population.

Employers exclude Women over the pregnancy "issue", and wrongly believe they take more sick days i.e PMT.

I feel sad for anyone over 50 who is looking for a job, as far as employers are concerned your lifetime experience of wealth is worthless, many of this group have a lot more to offer and are reliable.

 
.

[Richie London]

yep, my brother in law got made redundant a couple of years ago. he is finacially better off on benefits. i would do the same if i had 5 kids as well. everyman for himself. look after no.1 and break the rest

[Elite Pete]

Here's my slant on it.

I passed my LGV test about 15 years ago so I thought seeing as there isn't much work about I would try to get a job driving, afterall, the pay isn't that bad. How wrong I was, look on the job center web page and you'll see class one drivers wanted for about £8 and hour. Now I think its because there are a number of immigrants that have come over to Britain, the majority are single men who live in a £350 a month rented terrace house sharing with 3/4 other blokes and can afford to work for £8 an hour. I am 45 now and I have just started an Asbestos surveying course, once that completed i'm doing a Surveying and Estimating course all paid for from my own pocket because this Government won't pay me any benefits because I was self employed and won't even loan my the money to pay for the courses

[Andy B]

......
and I have just started an Asbestos surveying course,  .....(

You then just need to find asbestos in a big 50's/60's built factory. Asbestos was found at our site last year and the removal company are charging over £800k to remove it. Needless to say that more has been found in other areas 

[Elite Pete]

......
and I have just started an Asbestos surveying course,  .....(

You then just need to find asbestos in a big 50's/60's built factory. Asbestos was found at our site last year and the removal company are charging over £800k to remove it. Needless to say that more has been found in other areas 

Its just the surveying Andy, not the removal

[joshwyatt]

I found it very interesting to watch, you had the 26 year old guy who was a complete idiot, spent all day playing computer games and when he finally had the opportunity to work, he didn't turn up because he'd had a 'bad night'.
I found it utterly unbelievable, the attitudes and ethos of some of those people.

[tigers_gonads]

Here's my slant on it.

I passed my LGV test about 15 years ago so I thought seeing as there isn't much work about I would try to get a job driving, afterall, the pay isn't that bad. How wrong I was, look on the job center web page and you'll see class one drivers wanted for about £8 and hour. Now I think its because there are a number of immigrants that have come over to Britain, the majority are single men who live in a £350 a month rented terrace house sharing with 3/4 other blokes and can afford to work for £8 an hour. I am 45 now and I have just started an Asbestos surveying course, once that completed i'm doing a Surveying and Estimating course all paid for from my own pocket because this Government won't pay me any benefits because I was self employed and won't even loan my the money to pay for the courses

i know what you mean pete, being on the job seakers for 6 months now 
just me, our lass and the lad.
went bankrupt after 19 years as a sparky last july    ( those with the money won't pay )
tried to get on a corse ( that would have given me a very good chance of a job then i could have gone for a admin order and kept working )
was told that because i was self employed and a bit behind with my stamp then there is no funding till i get to stage 3 ( 6 months ) 
now i'm bankrupt
our lass works 30 hours a week
we get child tax credit and working tax credit   

hear is the good bit ..................... because i was self employed, i get stamp relief and f*ck all else 
the tax credit our lass gets is the same as if she was living on her own 
no poll tax or rent relief either 

this countrys breaked 
but to be honest, i don't blame the imigrants  ( if somebody gives you money, you take it )
i blame the sc*m goverment who let the bast*rds in in the first place 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I found it very interesting to watch, you had the 26 year old guy who was a complete idiot, spent all day playing computer games and when he finally had the opportunity to work, he didn't turn up because he'd had a 'bad night'.
I found it utterly unbelievable, the attitudes and ethos of some of those people.

.....hard to believe this guy was really 26.....he looked and acted more  like a teenager......of about 16 or 17....pitiful :-/

[Jimbo B]

The attitude of some, not all, young people were illustrated on the programme, but the attitude of potential employers are worth noting,  in my experience many are prejudiced to people the following categories -

Disabled, even slightly
Racial minorities
Women
Over 50's

Any disabled persons are not shortlisted for a job, unless the employer is fulfilling their govt. quota, many laws exist to protect candidates but in small industries are often ignored.

Racial stereotypes exclude many able people, and can enhance employment prospects for some, the law put simply is that a company's employees must reflect roughly the ethnic ratio of the local population.

Employers exclude Women over the pregnancy "issue", and wrongly believe they take more sick days i.e PMT.

I feel sad for anyone over 50 who is looking for a job, as far as employers are concerned your lifetime experience of wealth is worthless, many of this group have a lot more to offer and are reliable.

 
.

Thanks Mudflap how true that is the only thing I can do these days is teach the over 55's computing, and even that as a volunteer for Age Concern.
The truth is bosses neither care nor can be bothered, at least I can help someone. 

[albitz]

Imo the programme was a typical BBC stitch up. They hand picked characters who they thought would best present the British as bone idle and work shy. I also thought the lad who was put in charge of front of house at the Indian restaurant after a half days training was very obviously set up.
The restaurant owner said at the end of the programme that it had been proved that an English worker wasnt capable of doing the job like an Indian would be. That to me was a racist comment and if the position was reversed the British restaurant owner would probably be in court for hate crimes.
A couple of years ago my employer of 20 years dismissed me, the reason they gave was that as I had a degree of disability I was incapable of doing my job. They had already replaced much of the work force with Eastern Europeans in the previous year and they replaced me with one as well.
He was half my age but apparently did about half the work that I did and also cost them a fortune in damage to and neglect of very expensive machinery.
The company went bust less than a year later, started up agian under a slightly different name and then sought out most of the original workforce and re- employed the ones who were willing to go back and work for them again.
There is two sides to every coin.
I would add that there is without doubt a section of our population who have grown used to living on benefits and simply dont want to work. Some of the job candidates on the programme were obviously in this group . The only people to blame for this imo are the politicians who have created this culture. They should be hung drawn and quartered for what they have done to these people in their social engineering experiments. It has done serious damage to this country and its reputation.

[feeutfo]

temporary staff at our place are vital, its very mundane work and very seasonal, so when busy temps keep us afloat.
There is defo a pattern amongst the various minoritys, British passport holders tend to be a mare tbh. Not interseted, nic stuff, brake stuff, abuse others personal property, and abuse other minoritys. Afro carribean just sit and stare into space blatently dodging any chance of having to do anything at all. Asians and east europeans are over keen to take command and start ordering people about... not a pc statement but purely an observation.

Thing is phew seem to realise the opertunity available, those that shine out are asked to return, those that dont are not asked back so when full time jobs are available the queue is in place. Accross the board we eventually get very good full time staff of all nationalitys.

I have to say, very few GB temps make the grade. Most dont last the day. As my boss said the other day, Thank Christ for Poland, or we'd all be out of a job.

I cant speak for the benefit system, i concider myself very lucky on that front, but as far as keeping business afloat with cheap labour goes, i know several companys that cant do without them.

[Omegadoha, Desert Member]

The immigrants only take up the jobs because the locals don't. If all vacancies are full, immigrants give up and return home.

[ChevetteNick]

The immigrants only take up the jobs because the locals don't.

That is not true and is a disgraceful statement to make. I personally know of a company local to me, at one time the largest employer in the area, that set up an office in Poland offering the locals there work and accomodation in England that was not available to British men and Women.

[albitz]

Its all about cheap labour/ easy profits. These companies who claim they could not survive without them should explain how they operated before the huge influx of immigrant labour.

[Varche]

Its all about cheap labour/ easy profits. These companies who claim they could not survive without them should explain how they operated before the huge influx of immigrant labour.

Don't think so. The asparagus picking farm for example was paying piece rate. From memory 38p per kilo . A good worker could make £100 plus a day. The local indigenous guys made so little that the manage had to make up his wage to the minimum Uk per hour..

There are asparagus fields here near us. No raised beds. No piece rate just minimum rate wages. If you don't do well the manager just hires someone else . With 20% unemployed their is a waiting list a mile long to get the work.

I have said on a different thread before that people ought to think about how little they pay for supermarket food and how much they throw away. That might explain something of the culuture in farm businesses!

[albitz]

Its all about cheap labour/ easy profits. These companies who claim they could not survive without them should explain how they operated before the huge influx of immigrant labour.

Don't think so. The asparagus picking farm for example was paying piece rate. From memory 38p per kilo . A good worker could make £100 plus a day. The local indigenous guys made so little that the manage had to make up his wage to the minimum Uk per hour..

There are asparagus fields here near us. No raised beds. No piece rate just minimum rate wages. If you don't do well the manager just hires someone else . With 20% unemployed their is a waiting list a mile long to get the work.

I have said on a different thread before that people ought to think about how little they pay for supermarket food and how much they throw away. That might explain something of the culuture in farm businesses!

A lot of the farmers employ the pickers on a casual basis which cuts out all the normal employment costs and red tape. Theres no denying that one of the candidates was a bit of a waster, but to try to portray the British as lazy and workshy and everyone else as far superior is racist and wrong.
I have picked potatoes on piecework when I was younger and it is bloody hard work, but you do get used to it. The farmer in the programme said that the locals should be up to speed in a maximum of 4 hours, as the Eastern europeans were.
Theres no way someone could be expected to get up to speed in that time unless they had already done the job on a regular basis previously imo.
There are also many cases of immigrants being paid way below minimum wage, but they put up with it ( in the short term at least) to get themselves established in this country. they live in communal accomadation to save on costs etc. but they can claim such things as family allowance for children still living abroad and send it back to their family which probably gives them a pretty good living standard in their country.

[Vamps]

I think the young man in the Indian restaurant was 'set up to fail' He was one of three who should have been front of house and had no understanding of the Menu as he had received no training. To be honest I thought he did very well, no one would be expected to do his job without training.

Similar views of the picking on the farm....

The two guys, should have been three but one had been out on the town the previous night and sent a text at midnight to say he would be to tired. They found it hard to keep up the pace of packing bags of potatoes..........

The 'chippy / plasterer' did ok, as said 2 weeks work, after this he moved away for work.

Interesting programme but biased in my opinion and gave the British the image that seems to be the expected norm today.....

[albitz]

Completely agree Vamps. Typical of the BBC unfortunately. If a programme was made which was a mirror image of this one and cast the immigrants in a bad light there would be absolute uproar.

[feeutfo]

Its all about cheap labour/ easy profits. These companies who claim they could not survive without them should explain how they operated before the huge influx of immigrant labour.

there was no recession then...

and i tell you what, i would not do thier job, not at our place, not even for more money than i'm on now. Its mind numbing sole destroying work, and as said, most uk temps cant stick it either.

[albitz]

But we have only been in recession for about 2 years Chris, the influx of immigrant labour started over 10 years ago.
Being as thick as pigsh1t I have done manual/mindless/soul destroying work most of my life, very heavy manual work most of the time. You develop coping mechanisms to deal with it once you accept that it is a situation you probably wont get out of any time soon.

[MikeDundee]

I am currently working on KPI's for the borough 5 major works partnering projects, which will last between 5/10 years with an estimated value of 40 million per annum in work orders;

One of the KPI's is to take on apprenticeships, e.g., local, from the borough, 1 apprentice per 1 million works order per annum. The apprenticeships will mainly cover carpentry, plastering and possibly other trades subect to each of the service providers.

Each contractor also has to employ local labour e.g., whom have either been unemployed, single parents, and BME, however, this is not one of the KPI's.

Hopefully this will reduce immigrant labour being employed, as most will already have employment, unless they start recruiting at the local B&Q car park

[feeutfo]

But we have only been in recession for about 2 years Chris, the influx of immigrant labour started over 10 years ago.
Being as thick as pigsh1t I have done manual/mindless/soul destroying work most of my life, very heavy manual work most of the time. You develop coping mechanisms to deal with it once you accept that it is a situation you probably wont get out of any time soon.

Your not thick Albs, just need to see other situations, temp staff are our only possible solution. Being American owned European company employing 500 full time in the uk and 6000 odd accross Europe with seasonal work load for 4months of the year, what would you do?
 We need anything up to 120 extra staff for those 4months at our site alone, we could possibly employ full time and survive, or produce less with the full time staff we have and survive, but thats not possible through a recession Albs, its just not.

So i say again, without temporary staff and the imigarants among them we would have closed down over a year ago with the loss of 500 skilled full time uk jobs.

...and i think you'll find the influx of imigrants started alot more than 10 years ago.