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General Discussion Area / Re: Haneda incident.
« on: 04 January 2024, 16:26:11 »
It's seemed fairly obvious to me from early on that the Dash8 entered the runway without clearance, and that ultimatley is the root cause. Not that there aren't other contributory factors of course.
However, what's done is done, and the important thing is what lessons can be learnt. Couple of things that strike me as being in your immediate area of expertise are....
1) Evacuation of the A350 didn't start till 8 minutes after the aircraft came to a halt. It then took 10 minutes to complete. Now I understand the reluctance to disgorge 360+ PAX from a 'safe' environment inside the aircraft to outside when there is fire on the ground and engines are still running - but once the fire brigade turn up and start hosing foam everywhere - I think 18 minutes to get everyone out starts to look a little suspect.
2) Nose wheel failure/collapse isn't *that* uncommon. It appears this renders the rear emergency slides basically unusable - the aircraft's ar5e is so high in the air the slides are hanging not far off vertical.
3) There needs to be a way for ground based fire and rescue to cut the fuel from a free running engine. This was a problem in QF1 at SIN, and it was a problem with the starboard engine here. Having an engine run on - even at idle power - whilst PAX are running about like headless chickens won't end well. It also reduces the number of useable emergency exits dramatically.
4) Allowing the airframe to burn out - hmm. In an emergency it is drummed into you that you leave all hand luggage behind. Yet we regularly see PAX (in the west anyway- though not in this case) ignoring this and walking away with their hand luggage. So you're held on the aircraft for 8 minutes - you've got valuables in your hand luggage - and you know they'll let the plane burn to the ground. Like it or not - PAX will modify their behaviour in light of this. I already keep passport, keys and wallet in my pockets on flights for this very reason.
However, what's done is done, and the important thing is what lessons can be learnt. Couple of things that strike me as being in your immediate area of expertise are....
1) Evacuation of the A350 didn't start till 8 minutes after the aircraft came to a halt. It then took 10 minutes to complete. Now I understand the reluctance to disgorge 360+ PAX from a 'safe' environment inside the aircraft to outside when there is fire on the ground and engines are still running - but once the fire brigade turn up and start hosing foam everywhere - I think 18 minutes to get everyone out starts to look a little suspect.
2) Nose wheel failure/collapse isn't *that* uncommon. It appears this renders the rear emergency slides basically unusable - the aircraft's ar5e is so high in the air the slides are hanging not far off vertical.
3) There needs to be a way for ground based fire and rescue to cut the fuel from a free running engine. This was a problem in QF1 at SIN, and it was a problem with the starboard engine here. Having an engine run on - even at idle power - whilst PAX are running about like headless chickens won't end well. It also reduces the number of useable emergency exits dramatically.
4) Allowing the airframe to burn out - hmm. In an emergency it is drummed into you that you leave all hand luggage behind. Yet we regularly see PAX (in the west anyway- though not in this case) ignoring this and walking away with their hand luggage. So you're held on the aircraft for 8 minutes - you've got valuables in your hand luggage - and you know they'll let the plane burn to the ground. Like it or not - PAX will modify their behaviour in light of this. I already keep passport, keys and wallet in my pockets on flights for this very reason.