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[Doctor Gollum]

Oh, A320 will tip enough to jam the doors onto the steps, and load/unload a 321 without care and it will sit on its arse all day long

Ask me how I know

[Doctor Gollum]

Oh and if you want a meal choice, pre order it at least a week ahead.

Funny you should say that. LHR->VCE next weekend on BA. Can't see the caviar and salmon starter with Wagu beef main option in my scum class booking though.

I don't think even First get Wagu beef

You should now get a choice of sweet or savoury complimentary snack and a napkin. There's a choice of sandwiches/hot handheld snacks available to be pre-ordered. Pre ordering is better than waiting to see what's on board.

[LC0112G]

Oh and if you want a meal choice, pre order it at least a week ahead.

Funny you should say that. LHR->VCE next weekend on BA. Can't see the caviar and salmon starter with Wagu beef main option in my scum class booking though.

I don't think even First get Wagu beef

You should now get a choice of sweet or savoury complimentary snack and a napkin. There's a choice of sandwiches/hot handheld snacks available to be pre-ordered. Pre ordering is better than waiting to see what's on board.

Which tastes better - the sweet/savoury snack or the napkin?

[Doctor Gollum]

Not operated short haul for a while so wouldn't like to say

Try your luck at check in and see if you can sneak forward

[LC0112G]

Ok. Airbus figures.... https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jlcbta136/files/2021-11/Airbus-Commercial-Aircraft-AC-A350-900-1000.pdf

So worst case - the dash1000 - front slide length 10.25m, rear slide length 9.35m  (2-8-0 Page 2) . Front sill height 5.05m, Rear sill height 5.29m. (2-3-0 Page 10) So angle of dangle when standing normally on all U/C is 30 degrees front and 34 degrees rear.

Nose wheel is 32.5m ahead of the MLG, 4.63m behind the nose and about 2.9m tall.(2-7-0 Page 13)
D4 is 59.53m behind the nose, and therefore 22.4m behind the MLG. (2-7-0 Page 5)

If the nose wheel 'fails' and the thing ends up nose down arse up, I think the trigonometry says the rear sill ends up roughly 2m higher - or about 7.29m up - assuming it's still on it's MLG. For a rear slide of 9.35m that's an angle of dangle of 51 degrees.

More difficult to calculate for a nose up arse down, but I'd be surprised if it's much better.

[omega2018]

Where's STEMO when you need him?

[Doctor Gollum]

A further update and interpretation from Blancolirio's channel...

https://youtu.be/U1VuXT7Twyc?si=segpZw-GyxwEzSmj

Reiterates much of what was suspected initially.

[Doctor Gollum]

To your Man maths...

All gear down. D1 5.09m, D4 5.2m, inclination 0°.
Nose gear collapsed. D1 2.54m, D4 6.99m, inclination -4.74°
Main gear collapsed. D1 4.98m, D4 2.9m, inclination +2.37°.
All gear collapsed. D1 5.4m, D4 2.24m, inclination +3.55°

Figures for the -1000 of a particular configuration, and assumes a flat level surface... (a base line can't account for every what if).

And in the video of the evacuation from outside, L4 appears to be perfectly useable as demonstrated by people using it and walking away

[Doctor Gollum]

A further update and interpretation from Blancolirio's channel...

https://youtu.be/U1VuXT7Twyc?si=segpZw-GyxwEzSmj

Reiterates much of what was suspected initially.

Although, contrasted to Boeing, these shiny new Airbuses use touch screen panels for ALL the controls including the Evac command button, although anyone can initiate it, it needs to be functioning and in a smoke filled environment a double press of a touch screen is potentially alot less reliable than a hard switch.

[LC0112G]

To your Man maths...

All gear down. D1 5.09m, D4 5.2m, inclination 0°.
Nose gear collapsed. D1 2.54m, D4 6.99m, inclination -4.74°
Main gear collapsed. D1 4.98m, D4 2.9m, inclination +2.37°.
All gear collapsed. D1 5.4m, D4 2.24m, inclination +3.55°

Figures for the -1000 of a particular configuration, and assumes a flat level surface... (a base line can't account for every what if).

Ok, so worst case D1 is 31.5 degrees. Worst case D4 is 48.4 Degrees. If they put a 10.25m slide (same as D1) on D4 then the angle comes down to 42 degrees - still too high IMHO but a lot better.

There must be some ICAO figures somewhere for slide lengths vs height - probably calculated from injury statistics for various angles/heights. If not, then what not have 80 degree slides to save weight on a rarely used item?

And in the video of the evacuation from outside, L4 appears to be perfectly useable as demonstrated by people using it and walking away

One of the videos I saw showed someone late in the evacuation - perhaps the captain? - basically dropping down the rear chute and landing on the tail end of it like an airbed. Try that with 100+ people in 90 seconds and you'll end up with people soup. Other reports (which may or may not be correct) were that the rear cabin crew were sending people to the front door slides because of the steepness of the drop. Will be interesting to see how many people used the rear slide versus the front two, and why. That info may be in the final report.

[Doctor Gollum]

A couple of points there.

On the A350, the D1 slides are single lane slides with width restrictors to prevent excessive flow, whereas the rest are all dual lane*. At some point you have to trust the equipment you're given. One reason it took 8-10 minutes to evacuate (when they finally started) might have been due to the percentage of people sent forward. Had they used L4 slide to better advantage, and possibly R4 as well, the total evacuation time would have been alot nearer 90 seconds.

* There are packaging reasons for this, the D1 area is narrower due to the taper of the nose and it saves a couple or four inches of space each side. Besides, the front of the forward cabin may only have 12-18 seats (2 rows or less in economy terms). For example Our -1000 is configured with 44 suites between D1 and D2; 12 suites, 56 Prem seats and 49 economy seats between D2 and D3; and 176 seats between D3 and D4.

A high density -900 is still going to be arse heavy in terms of pax per door.

I would suggest that the final person leaving D4 did so with a degree of panic. You need to go with enough aplomb to keep momentum out of the door, but it's not some Hollywood movie looking for style points. Also CRM and pax management comes into play here. Delegate 2-4 people to support the slide as people come down it. Also required if the slide fails to inflate... Pull it taut and it will still serve its primary purpose. Delegation of certain actions to Able Bodied Pax is part of the preplanning process in an expected/planned emergency, ideally someone next to your crew seat. If they say no, swap them for someone who is prepared to do what's asked of them. Not so easy in an unexpected/unplanned situation, but still a useful tool in an emergency.

Similar documentation for the A380 suggests that the respective door sill heights on the main deck are comparable to the A350.which suggests a legislative requirement. Don't forget also that the slides double up as liferafts and so are a  certain size to accommodate more than their share of the pax capacity (the opposite of the Titanic).

[TheBoy]

and load/unload a 321 without care and it will sit on its arse all day long

Ask me how I know

My last A321 flight, the pilot was carefully telling passengers which rows to get off from to keep the plane level, as the ground staff never brought any steps to the rear....

[Doctor Gollum]

https://youtu.be/LNmeTHY1m5g?si=_n4e8DgD7-6U7HlO

Found the footage I was looking for. Attendant clearly holding the handset either waiting for an answer or actually using it. The pinkish light in the exit sign above her is illuminated suggesting a connection between that handset and another.

[LC0112G]

https://youtu.be/LNmeTHY1m5g?si=_n4e8DgD7-6U7HlO

Found the footage I was looking for. Attendant clearly holding the handset either waiting for an answer or actually using it. The pinkish light in the exit sign above her is illuminated suggesting a connection between that handset and another.

And that video also shows the L4 exit slide at time 2:50. Yes sliding down that is better than simply jumping out the door and hitting the ground 7m later, but I maintain you can't evacuate 25% of the pax down that slide in 90 seconds without causing significant injuries and possibly deaths. And as you rightly say the back of the plane is usually more packed with scum class pax so in a similar future evac L4/R4 will be the closest "usable" door for the majority of the PAX.

Yes given no other choice I'd use it, but that's not to say we shouldn't learn from this and at least think about how things might be made (even) safer.

[Doctor Gollum]

If they'd made it to the water, they'd have had time to do a bar round and still be off in 18 minutes.

Where the aircraft ended up wasn't a perfect flat surface, rotated slightly to the right and down a slight bank. You can't plan for every aspect of every scenario.

The A380 has an extension to the D1M slides that deploys if it is arse down, but they are under the door in the fuselage so have a bit more space to play with.

I suspect the question will be is it possible to make the slide another metre or two longer and still fulfill it's function as a raft and fit in into the bustle along with the extra gas required to inflate it and remain practical to use at a shallower angle and keep it portable... (This is potentially something that affects every aircraft and on some the slides can be removed and moved to another door). Personally I think the answer will be no.

This is a secondary concern to why it took so long for the evacuation to be initiated and completed (cabin layout is possibly another factor*) and why the #2 engine failed to stop if commanded to. Also the AFRSs only just arrived as the pax were evacuating and why did they not foam the #2 engine as a priority? There's no visible fire by L2 in that clip, so the conditions changed and that's another dual slide that could have been used...

* For an aircraft labelled as XWB, there's not much room  in the aisle,.and every time the aisles pass from one cabin to the next, it's offset... With seats overhanging the lavs etc.

Be interesting to see what the FDR has to say regarding communication on the A350.