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[tigers_gonads]

My lad (just 19 years old) is looking to learn to drive.

While he is learning, he is looking to buy himself a small car to practice with.
This will double up as a car for me to take the missus to work in because my 3.2 miggy is supping lpg at a alarming rate due to the short distance / not really warming up.

Not sure whether to go for petrol of diesel but looking at spending something in the region of 5 or 600 quid.
That way if he has a little prang, its not the end of the world.

Credit to the lad, he isn't bothered about the badge on the car.  He is more bothered about keeping the cost of the tax / insurance as low as possible.

I've got 10 years plus protected no claims so would it be better for me to insure it with his as a second driver 
Would he be able to build up his no claims that way ?
Or would it be better for him to just bend over, bite the bullet and just pay up  ?

Opinions welcome 

[Entwood]

My lad (just 19 years old) is looking to learn to drive.

While he is learning, he is looking to buy himself a small car to practice with.
This will double up as a car for me to take the missus to work in because my 3.2 miggy is supping lpg at a alarming rate due to the short distance / not really warming up.

Not sure whether to go for petrol of diesel but looking at spending something in the region of 5 or 600 quid.
That way if he has a little prang, its not the end of the world.

Credit to the lad, he isn't bothered about the badge on the car.  He is more bothered about keeping the cost of the tax / insurance as low as possible.

I've got 10 years plus protected no claims so would it be better for me to insure it with his as a second driver 
Would he be able to build up his no claims that way ?
Or would it be better for him to just bend over, bite the bullet and just pay up  ?

Opinions welcome 

He will not build up any no-claims that way, as the policy is in YOUR name. To build a history the insurance has to be in HIS name. Best bet is to insure 3rd party fire, theft, only, but with YOU and possibly your other half (if they have a clean insurance record) as named drivers on his policy .. for some reason Insurance companies seem to like the idea of mum & dad being involved. Bite the bullet and start to build that history.....

[tigers_gonads]

Gotcha
Cheers Nige 

[Broomies Mate]

Anything small, low tax/insurance which is worth having will be either over budget, or overpriced (a car worth £450 priced at £700 because of the demand).

I'd be looking at an Astra G.  1.6 8v cars wear their mileage very well, mechanically.  The engines are extremely reliable if somewhat underpowered.... not necessarily a bad thing for a young, inexperienced driver.

Something like this, which is on their forecourt for £995.

£725 on The Trader.  http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201407286150177/sort/default/quicksearch/true/postcode/hu11tt/price-to/1000/page/2/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/make/vauxhall/model/astra/usedcars/radius/50?logcode=p

Personally, I'd avoid anything like a Saxo / 106 / Corsa.  Don't tend to be as cheap to insure as a boggo standard car from the model up, less comfortable..... and lets be fair, the 8v Vx engine can be worked on by a monkey and still work when you turn the key.

[05omegav6]

Here's my starter for £10...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-VOLKSWAGEN-POLO-DIESEL-SALOON-1-9-TDI-WHITE-/201213968945?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2ed9498231

Ok, doesn't have to be this one... personal preference would be a G or H reg 1.0/1.3

That said... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Polo-1-0L-L-5-Door-Manual-Hatchback-1996-P-Blue-/121479426811?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1c48bcf2fb

[Andy B]

My lad (just 19 years old) is looking to learn to drive.

While he is learning, he is looking to buy himself a small car to practice with.
This will double up as a car for me to take the missus to work in because my 3.2 miggy is supping lpg at a alarming rate due to the short distance / not really warming up.

Not sure whether to go for petrol of diesel but looking at spending something in the region of 5 or 600 quid.
That way if he has a little prang, its not the end of the world.

Credit to the lad, he isn't bothered about the badge on the car.  He is more bothered about keeping the cost of the tax / insurance as low as possible.

I've got 10 years plus protected no claims so would it be better for me to insure it with his as a second driver 
Would he be able to build up his no claims that way ?
Or would it be better for him to just bend over, bite the bullet and just pay up  ?

Opinions welcome 

He will not build up any no-claims that way, as the policy is in YOUR name. To build a history the insurance has to be in HIS name. Best bet is to insure 3rd party fire, theft, only, but with YOU and possibly your other half (if they have a clean insurance record) as named drivers on his policy .. for some reason Insurance companies seem to like the idea of mum & dad being involved. Bite the bullet and start to build that history.....

Direct Line claim to give named drivers a no claims discount just by being a named driver. In practice I doubt it works out cheaper in the long run 

[Broomies Mate]

Most Insurance companies will give you a form of NCD for previous driving experience as a named driver.  It varies though.  Some will offer a 1yr ND for 3yrs as a named driver.  Each company will be different though.

My Brother's wife has been a named driver for over two decades (accident free).  She has just got herself her own insurance policy on their first second car (you may have to read that several times!).  Admittedly, it was with the same insurance company as the first policy, but she received full NCD.

[tigers_gonads]

Al / Broomie

Must admit I like the idea of a little bit more metal between him and whatever he may hit, whether its a slightly larger car or something a little bit more substantial like the polo's 

Really looking at insurance groups 1 - 3 to keep it as cheap as we can 

[tigers_gonads]

Most Insurance companies will give you a form of NCD for previous driving experience as a named driver.  It varies though.  Some will offer a 1yr ND for 3yrs as a named driver.  Each company will be different though.

My Brother's wife has been a named driver for over two decades (accident free).  She has just got herself her own insurance policy on their first second car (you may have to read that several times!).  Admittedly, it was with the same insurance company as the first policy, but she received full NCD.

[/highlight]

kin ell 
What company was that 

[Broomies Mate]

Most Insurance companies will give you a form of NCD for previous driving experience as a named driver.  It varies though.  Some will offer a 1yr ND for 3yrs as a named driver.  Each company will be different though.

My Brother's wife has been a named driver for over two decades (accident free).  She has just got herself her own insurance policy on their first second car (you may have to read that several times!).  Admittedly, it was with the same insurance company as the first policy, but she received full NCD.

[/highlight]

kin ell 
What company was that 

I have a feeling it was through Adrian Flux - Not sure of the underwriters.  I'll ask tomorrow and get back to you.

[Varche]

Stretch the budget a bit and go for a 1.2 Corsa. Great little cars but I am biased. Any colour other than black as that will have been thrashed by another 19 year old

[Vamps]

Remember, what ever you do with insurance, when he passes his test his insurance will go up! took us by surprise, but a no brainer really.............

[henryd]

Remember, what ever you do with insurance, when he passes his test his insurance will go up! took us by surprise, but a no brainer really.............

Yes indeed,our oldest lads cover doubled as soon as he passed his test,

You will find that a 1.0 Corsa or similar will be about all he can afford to cover unless he has a big pot of money,bigger engines and anything tdi will make yer eyes water

[Phil]

........Best bet is to insure 3rd party fire, theft, only.........,

No point in doing that as difference between TPFT and fully comp is very minimal.

Might as well be fully covered for pulling the car out of the ditch a 19 year old is likely to stick it in, no point in 'losing' a £600 car for the sake of what is likely to be less than £100 extra on the insurance

 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Here's my starter for £10...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-VOLKSWAGEN-POLO-DIESEL-SALOON-1-9-TDI-WHITE-/201213968945?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2ed9498231

Ok, doesn't have to be this one... personal preference would be a G or H reg 1.0/1.3

That said... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-Polo-1-0L-L-5-Door-Manual-Hatchback-1996-P-Blue-/121479426811?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1c48bcf2fb

Now you see I would advise against a Polo as they have serious reliability issues and big ticket parts to address such issues. 

[05omegav6]

My brother had an F reg one as his first car... rusty and faded, but utterly bombproof

Only issue was with the Carb wearing out, but easily sorted with one from a breaker...

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I know this is going back a bit, but as mentioned previously a 1.0 12v Corsa, at the time was the cheapest car in the country to buy, insure and run over a 3 yr period, better than any Kia, Hyundai, etc... they're frugal, and dont tend to be thrashed (why buy a car with that engine size if you like to drive fast?) Also keeping it in the Vauxhall stable will help you no end.. Apparently, the 1.0 12v is basically half a 2.5 V6 

[RossPhim]

We bought a old 54 plate Picanto for my eldest when she was learning to drive.
IIRC it was £30 RFD, of the year.
Just remember that your no claims bonus is meaningless as it's for your policy, which I assume you will be keeping on the MIG.
This will be an entirely new policy even in your name starting at 0 NCB. That bit took me by surprise.

She's 19 now and we upgraded it to a 11 plate just a few months back as we were so impressed with the first one.
She's happy as it's got more toys, and we're happy as this one is £0 RFD, the same and actually cheaper to insure in her own name as we've switched to a multi car policy!

Good luck with your search!
 

[Marks DTM Calib]

My brother had an F reg one as his first car... rusty and faded, but utterly bombproof

Only issue was with the Carb wearing out, but easily sorted with one from a breaker...

Yes well there not 'F reg' ones any more are they.....and at that age they didn't even have servo brakes. 

Now you have the joys of shite small petrol engines with chain issues and bad gearboxes, electrical faults and numerous other bits.

The only reason why they were reliable years ago is they had zero features 

[Marks DTM Calib]

I know this is going back a bit, but as mentioned previously a 1.0 12v Corsa, at the time was the cheapest car in the country to buy, insure and run over a 3 yr period, better than any Kia, Hyundai, etc... they're frugal, and dont tend to be thrashed (why buy a car with that engine size if you like to drive fast?) Also keeping it in the Vauxhall stable will help you no end.. Apparently, the 1.0 12v is basically half a 2.5 V6 

Beware with the 1.0 and 1.2 as poor servicing results in chain issues and HG failures.

They also suffer rain water leaks from the bulk head areas on BOTH sides so check carpets for wetness.

Other than that its the usual wear and tear stuff like springs, CV boots, CV boot retaining clips etc.

[05omegav6]

My brother had an F reg one as his first car... rusty and faded, but utterly bombproof

Only issue was with the Carb wearing out, but easily sorted with one from a breaker...

Yes well there not 'F reg' ones any more are they.....and at that age they didn't even have servo brakes. 

Now you have the joys of shite small petrol engines with chain issues and bad gearboxes, electrical faults and numerous other bits.

The only reason why they were reliable years ago is they had zero features 

True enough Not a bad place to start from though...

[Jusme]

Had the same decision to help with and was pushing him toward a......... Kia Rio.  Insurance is low, seem to be reasonably reliable? And there appears to be enough room in the back for....... 'what comes naturally', at that age especially.. Example.
Key facts
 •2003
 •Petrol
 •Hatchback
 •Manual
 •86500 miles
 .
Long MOT September 2015, Economical, Good intererior, blue, stereo cd/dvd, BLUE, Electric windows, Air conditioning, Height adjustable driver's seat, Folding rear seats, Child seat points (Isofix system), Power steering, Steering wheel rake adjustment, Central locking, Immobiliser, Driver's airbags. £485

[X30XE]

Not that Mark needs my backup to be believed, but yes the early 2000s polos were absolutely shocking cars and very dear for parts. classic "oh that'll be £300 please" VW stylee. 

Re insurance : If you're not the main driver of the car and you're the policy holder that's "fronting" and is illegal.  Expect the insurers to roll on you in the event of a claim.

I had an M-reg 306 Dturbo as my first car.  With hindsight I wish I'd had a late 80's/early 90's polo coupe or a BMW 316i saloon. Boat has been somewhat missed on those now 

[omegod]

I know a couple of people who have gone down the classic route for their young uns and got decent prices, not sure how but worked for them

[tigers_gonads]

Thanks for the info lads 

Omegod, that's a idea worth looking into 

[Sir Tigger KC]

It's painful at first, but I'm sure in the long run Gonads Jnr will be better off getting his own policy and start building up that NCB in his own right ASAP and of course Gonads Snr will be better off when he inevitably puts it in a ditch!     

[Diamond Black Geezer]

I think it stinks how much younger drivers are forced to pay.. on the other hand. If you're paying £2k for a car's insurance on a £500 banger.. you tend to really, really, really appreciate what you've got. The only exceptions are when it's not being paid for by the said new driver, but parents etc... not saying that's the case of all young drivers where the parents are paying the insurance, just the spoilt little rich kids, you know?

Just out of interest, what are the prices?

[RossPhim]

Mine was around £650 whilst she was a learner, and they gladly emptied my wallet for another £360 ish on the day she passed her test to get us to the end of the first year, which was only 4 moths away!
Car was a Picanto GS 1.1, and couldn't pull the skin off a custard, which suited her as us just fine.

[Broomies Mate]

I'll re-iterate.

Just because a car has a tiny engine doesn't mean it's cheap to insure.  Insurance Groups don't really give an idea either.

Get a quote on several vehicles and I'm sure you will be quite surprised.

I'll bet a 1.6 Astra G will be cheaper to Insure than a 1.0 Corsa (with a 3cyl engine which fails after 50k).

Likewise, a 1.4 Focus will be cheaper than a 1.1 Saxo.

Steal-ability, Crash-ability, The likelyhood of a teen owning one, there are many factors.

[tigers_gonads]

A update on this
Now possibly looking at getting a small 2 seat van or maybe a astra van with rear seats in the back.
The idea is that a small van insured on a trade policy in the lads name (with me as named number 2 driver) will work out substantially cheaper then a car   
At the end of the day, mini me is in his 2nd year as a painter and decorator and is looking to start doing some work of his own when he is not at collage.

This would also give him the opportunity to build up some no claims bonuses while he earns a little money and practice for his driving test 

Opinions welcome 

[Vamps]

Sounds like a plan to me................

[Vamps]

I'll re-iterate.

Just because a car has a tiny engine doesn't mean it's cheap to insure.  Insurance Groups don't really give an idea either.

Get a quote on several vehicles and I'm sure you will be quite surprised.

I'll bet a 1.6 Astra G will be cheaper to Insure than a 1.0 Corsa (with a 3cyl engine which fails after 50k).

Likewise, a 1.4 Focus will be cheaper than a 1.1 Saxo.

Steal-ability, Crash-ability, The likelyhood of a teen owning one, there are many factors.

Why would that affect the cost of insurance?.............

[Broomies Mate]

I'll re-iterate.

Just because a car has a tiny engine doesn't mean it's cheap to insure.  Insurance Groups don't really give an idea either.

Get a quote on several vehicles and I'm sure you will be quite surprised.

I'll bet a 1.6 Astra G will be cheaper to Insure than a 1.0 Corsa (with a 3cyl engine which fails after 50k).

Likewise, a 1.4 Focus will be cheaper than a 1.1 Saxo.

Steal-ability, Crash-ability, The likelyhood of a teen owning one, there are many factors.

Why would that affect the cost of insurance?.............

It won't... I was merely pointing out that the 3cylinder engine is a piece of crap and should be avoided at all costs. 

[Vamps]

I'll re-iterate.

Just because a car has a tiny engine doesn't mean it's cheap to insure.  Insurance Groups don't really give an idea either.

Get a quote on several vehicles and I'm sure you will be quite surprised.

I'll bet a 1.6 Astra G will be cheaper to Insure than a 1.0 Corsa (with a 3cyl engine which fails after 50k).

Likewise, a 1.4 Focus will be cheaper than a 1.1 Saxo.

Steal-ability, Crash-ability, The likelyhood of a teen owning one, there are many factors.

Why would that affect the cost of insurance?.............

It won't... I was merely pointing out that the 3cylinder engine is a piece of crap and should be avoided at all costs. 

Agreed............

[tigers_gonads]

Question about these 1.3 DTI engines / 6 speed box in the corsa van ?

A few out there with mileage well into the 150K's

What are these like reliability / parts / fuel wise ?

[Diamond Black Geezer]

Can't say or won't pretend to know anything about the 1.3DTI engines at that sort of mileage. But I think for a first car what applies to a car any of us would buy, compared with a first car for a young driver still applies the same. If it's a big old barge like an Omega or other motorway-eater, then with good servicing, it'll last for 300k... if it's a little city car pap-pap, then a low-mileage one owned by the vicar for 10 years is the one to go for. I appreciate finding a mint, low mileage small-ish car isn't exactly the easiest of tasks, but that would be my thoughts. They are out there. 

[05omegav6]

Question about these 1.3 DTI engines / 6 speed box in the corsa van ?

A few out there with mileage well into the 150K's

What are these like reliability / parts / fuel wise ?

A bit gutless by all accounts, especially in Astra form, but far more reliable than the crappy 1.6 tdci Ford lump

[yt03]

I have a 1.2 corsa for sale I wanted around £500 for her, seen as we live in same town thought I'd let you know

[tigers_gonads]

I have a 1.2 corsa for sale I wanted around £500 for her, seen as we live in same town thought I'd let you know

I'll see how much the insurance is compared to a van and get back to you bud 

[symes]

mate got his kid a landrover--cheaper to insure than a small car---wtf seriously he got a disco

[VXL V6]

Question about these 1.3 DTI engines / 6 speed box in the corsa van ?

A few out there with mileage well into the 150K's

What are these like reliability / parts / fuel wise ?

Lot of Corsa's using this engine, problem with the latest model Corsa is failing Electric Steering at huuuuuge expense.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Not seen any issues with the later steering setup, there was some on the early Corsa C but was actually pretty easy to repair DIY.

I would also rate the 1.0 3 pot as pretty bulletproof if serviced, its a cut down version of the 1.2 and has exactly the same ancillaries and design. The only issues you see are noisy timing chains which are mainly due to poor servicing.

In fact I see one with 160K miles on it and its still in fine fettle.

As for the 1.3 Dti....its actually a 1.3 CDTi.......

No real issue, maybe the odd clogged EGR etc and the concern of later units having a DPF so not well suited to short journeys just as per any other modern Euro4 diesel.

[Varche]

Not seen any issues with the later steering setup, there was some on the early Corsa C but was actually pretty easy to repair DIY.

I would also rate the 1.0 3 pot as pretty bulletproof if serviced, its a cut down version of the 1.2 and has exactly the same ancillaries and design. The only issues you see are noisy timing chains which are mainly due to poor servicing.

In fact I see one with 160K miles on it and its still in fine fettle.

As for the 1.3 Dti....its actually a 1.3 CDTi.......

No real issue, maybe the odd clogged EGR etc and the concern of later units having a DPF so not well suited to short journeys just as per any other modern Euro4 diesel.

Mark do you mean oil and filter change intervals too far apart. I thought otherwise there isn't much you can do to the chain on the 1.2?

[Marks DTM Calib]

To far apart or more often than not, not bothered with.

The key to longevity on any chain setup, particularly simplex ones, is regular oil changes........and its a lack of this that does or the chains and tensioners.

[henryd]

Not seen any issues with the later steering setup, there was some on the early Corsa C but was actually pretty easy to repair DIY.

I would also rate the 1.0 3 pot as pretty bulletproof if serviced, its a cut down version of the 1.2 and has exactly the same ancillaries and design. The only issues you see are noisy timing chains which are mainly due to poor servicing.

In fact I see one with 160K miles on it and its still in fine fettle.

As for the 1.3 Dti....its actually a 1.3 CDTi.......

No real issue, maybe the odd clogged EGR etc and the concern of later units having a DPF so not well suited to short journeys just as per any other modern Euro4 diesel.

Yep me too,cracking little motor if cared for,punches way above its weight