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[cleggy]

We live in a Crescent of 8 houses with a grassed green in the centre on which is a BT telegraph pole. For the last 20 years this pole has had a sign stating "NO BALL GAMES" and has been replaced over the years as it deteriorated. The last one was damaged over the winter in the winds, so I bought a new one A4 size, my neighbour mounted the plastic notice on ply and we erected the sign.

Today two plastic coppers came up the close today came straight to my door and said the council had sent them after a complaint about the sign saying it had been erected without permission and it constitutes fly posting. I said I was responsible with the consent of 6 of the the neighbours who chipped in for the cost to replace the damaged notice for two reasons. The first and importantly is safety, cars use the Crescent as a convenient turning place at speed and at the bottom of the slope is a major road where we have seen  children run out of the close after a ball into the main road. Secondly is ball being kicked into our parked cars. I should add that the only children in the Crescent total 5 from the womb for benefits resident. I agreed to remove the sign eventually

Three of us are going to see our local councillor tomorrow so any advice would be helpful.

My points are :-

The sign or a version of it has been there for 20 years why do we need permission now?

Since when did the council use the police for a civil matter?

The sign is attached to BT property so what as it got to do with the council?

How do we get retrospective permission, and do we need it if it has been up for 20 years without a problem?
TIA

[bigegg]

who put the sign up originally?
did the original sign say "by order"?

I doubt the council did the original complaint - it will be one of your neighbours -
"the bloke from no.2 has put a poster up on the lamp-post", and the council will have referred it on as a flyposting matter, rather than actually doing any work themselves.

[cleggy]

who put the sign up originally?
did the original sign say "by order"?

I doubt the council did the original complaint - it will be one of your neighbours -
"the bloke from no.2 has put a poster up on the lamp-post", and the council will have referred it on as a flyposting matter, rather than actually doing any work themselves.

the original was apparently put up by the original  residents 20 years ago

No it does not say by order

Yes the only one with the children , but bear in mind we all have very large gardens

[Vamps]

I doubt either had any legal standing........

[cleggy]

I know that it is not of legal standing, the issue is whether it is fly posting or not, after being there in some form for the last 20 years.

It is a deterent, in fact we  and our neighbours  over the years have let and have no objection to our own and other children playing on the green. The original reason was others in the locale using the green for football or cricket and the inherrent problems associated with ball games as previously stated

[Sir Tigger KC]

Who maintains the green? 

[cleggy]

Who maintains the green? 

The council cut the grass, after the residents some 30 years ago cleared it of brambles and scrub and put down grass seed

[Sir Tigger KC]

So it's not a private estate and the council also maintains the road and pavements, I take it?

That's interesting that the Police were involved....  Nice to see that the place is so peaceful, that they have the time to chase concerned residents over a sign! 

Can't say I've any practical advice, but it's interesting, so let us know how you get on! 

[cleggy]

Went to see the local councillor this morning who agrees that it is ridiculous, a sign that has been there for 30 years is some form or another does not need permission. She wants to see a sign larger than the A4 sign already in use and she will get permission from BT to attach it to their pole. We do not have to remove the current sign

She agreed with all our points and when asked why Blunckets Boys were involved we were told that they are employed by the council not the police.
So common sense prevails 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I have nothing to add on the legal aspect of this, and it seems someone high up has relented.

But I do think it sad that on a lovely bit of plain old grass the elders and betters of the locality feel they should stop children playing ball games. Is there not enough restrictions on our lives in our nanny state? 

Next it could be "Do not walk on the grass" as well as "No ball games".  Then it is "No dog walking", "No cycling" - "No fun for humans" then comes to mind!

Then we all wonder why the young rebel and start causing real trouble.

On a old bit of grass why "No ball games"??

[05omegav6]

Posts 1 and 4 might explain

Glad some common sense has been applied

[cleggy]

I have nothing to add on the legal aspect of this, and it seems someone high up has relented.

But I do think it sad that on a lovely bit of plain old grass the elders and betters of the locality feel they should stop children playing ball games. Is there not enough restrictions on our lives in our nanny state? 

Next it could be "Do not walk on the grass" as well as "No ball games".  Then it is "No dog walking", "No cycling" - "No fun for humans" then comes to mind!

Then we all wonder why the young rebel and start causing real trouble.

On a old bit of grass why "No ball games"??

If you read the original post Lizzie I made it clear that it is dangerous from a traffic point of view for children to play with balls.

The close slopes down to a major main road and on more than one occasion a youngster has chased a ball into the main road with nearly disasterous consequences, in fact one was hospitalized. In addition the close is a convenient place for drivers to use at speed to turn off the main road and change direction if they miss a turning. Of secondary importance we don't want our cars damaged by footballs or worse basketballs.

The children of today, as indeed our own did and my granchildren today are more than welcome to play on the green in sight of their parents, but not with balls. If they are old enough to play football there is a park laid out for just that purpose around the corner.

We are not spoil sports just safety minded.Clear enough my dear

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I have nothing to add on the legal aspect of this, and it seems someone high up has relented.

But I do think it sad that on a lovely bit of plain old grass the elders and betters of the locality feel they should stop children playing ball games. Is there not enough restrictions on our lives in our nanny state? 

Next it could be "Do not walk on the grass" as well as "No ball games".  Then it is "No dog walking", "No cycling" - "No fun for humans" then comes to mind!

Then we all wonder why the young rebel and start causing real trouble.

On a old bit of grass why "No ball games"??

If you read the original post Lizzie I made it clear that it is dangerous from a traffic point of view for children to play with balls.

The close slopes down to a major main road and on more than one occasion a youngster has chased a ball into the main road with nearly disasterous consequences, in fact one was hospitalized. In addition the close is a convenient place for drivers to use at speed to turn off the main road and change direction if they miss a turning. Of secondary importance we don't want our cars damaged by footballs or worse basketballs.

The children of today, as indeed our own did and my granchildren today are more than welcome to play on the green in sight of their parents, but not with balls. If they are old enough to play football there is a park laid out for just that purpose around the corner.

We are not spoil sports just safety minded.Clear enough my dear

Ok I take your points, which I had already read.  But it is just sometimes there is a better way of a few telling the masses (including those on benefits with children! ) what to do and not do.  Why not erect fences to stop balls and children running into the road? Why not also tackle the speeding drivers problem by speaking to the police and council about the problem and dangers to children?  But I get the impression that the (5) children are seen as a damned nuisance by the others around the green; right or wrong? 

I accept of course the need for highway safety and the protection of children, but sometimes there are better ways than putting up (unofficial) signs. I am one who when I see such an unofficial attempt to control my life does the exact opposite!  

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks for your PM on this Cleggy, and the information you have provided does rather put everything into perspective!

Ignore me anyway, as I am just in a very combative mood today for personal reasons.  Normal service will be resumed!

Still don't like signs that individuals put up!

I think I need a bit of Revolution today:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78

 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Thanks for your PM on this Cleggy, and the information you have provided does rather put everything into perspective!

Ignore me anyway, as I am just in a very combative mood today for personal reasons.  Normal service will be resumed!

Still don't like signs that individuals put up!

I think I need a bit of Revolution today:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78

 

A woman with her 'blood up' can be quite sexy, Lizzie.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks for your PM on this Cleggy, and the information you have provided does rather put everything into perspective!

Ignore me anyway, as I am just in a very combative mood today for personal reasons.  Normal service will be resumed!

Still don't like signs that individuals put up!

I think I need a bit of Revolution today:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrkwgTBrW78

 

A woman with her 'blood up' can be quite sexy, Lizzie.

 

[dad1uk]

Our road is a real rat run in the rush hour because it runs parallel with a main road which gets very congested in the rush hour.
There have been numerous very near misses with kids playing foorball in the road, and the council fitted signs to some of the lamposts "No Ball Games", but the kids either can't read or just take no notice.
I do object when they use my car as a goal post though!!