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[Doctor Gollum]

I would suspect that a proportion of the latter are a direct response to the former, and would also suggest that a significant number of both are perpetrated by under 21s...

[Lizzie Zoom]

Informed adult decision....
Parental grooming and indoctrination of small children by dysfunctional adults....

Opti!!  You have not read my detailed explanations of the FACTS that surround transgendered individuals. With those that mature with the feelings they have had since early childhood in so many they do not disappear; they actually become even more apparent, until they get the professional help [/highlight]I have mentioned more than once.  Unfortunately that means they often have gone through puberty and now face an even harder process to become the man / women they KNOW they are in their brains - called brain gender.  Indeed it is far harder for women to fully transition to the male form, with the gender reassignment operation being far more complicated and therefore greatly more expensive.

It is NEVER down to "Parental grooming and indoctrination of small children by dysfunctional adults.... " and that is a very insulting and completely inaccurate comment for those who have gone through the full process over many years.

Why are you so dismissive of people who are transgendered Opti?  Why does it concern you so much?  Have you not got more to worry about?

Ok Lizzie. So every four year boy who says he wants to be a girl, and every four year old girl who say they want to be a boy should be signed up for gender reassignment, because, using your own words, these thoughts will not disappear. This seems to be the extent of your logic.

Using such warped logic would probably end up with about 80% of the population being trans.

In your world Tomboy girls wouldn't be allowed to grow and mature into natural real women. Sensitive boys wouldn't be allowed to develop into normal healthy men.

There is a reason why we have an age of consent in this country. This is so young people are not manipulated by those older than them with their own agenda.

I'm disappointed you find the obvious indoctrination and manipulation of a 4 year child at a gender change ceremony acceptable.  It is the abnormal masquerading as the normal.   

Less wokery and more common sense is the way to go.

If adults feels they are in the wrong body then I wish them good luck and hope they can find emotional and perhaps physical help. Children need to be protected until they are 'capable' of making life changing decisions. It's really not rocket science.

We must agree to disagree, sweetie......despite me being right.

Just fully read and fully understand what I have extensively detailed and you will eventually understand I have said nothing to support your above suggestions.  I have repeatedly said about GP, medical and psychological assessment is essential OVER YEARS, once a parent becomes aware and concerned of certain patterns of behavior.  Indeed parents are often VERY skeptical about once anyone suggests their child is "different" and they do NOT indoctrination and manipulate at any stage wanting a more standard explanation of what is being witnessed.  This process is reflected in all the true UK transgender cases I have personally witnessed and read reports on by specialists.  The system, by default, makes it virtually impossible for anyone fool the specialists by acting as though they are trans when they are clearly not.

In addition I challenge any man or woman to dress, conform and in particular LIVE with an adopted gender for more than a month, if that, and suffer the indignities, humiliations, insults and even threats that involves.  Go on Opti, if you think that is possible start wearing female clothes, a wig, putting on make-up walking down the street, shopping, socializing and going to work 24/7 and see if that is on a whim, a joke, as you are suggesting!

Remember as well that a transgendered individual MUST live fully in their adopted gender for at least 2 years or more before any surgery will be performed and the government can grant a Gender Recognition Certificate so that their birth certificate can show their true gender.

If you think, after all I have explained, it can still be done on a whim, on a fancy at ANY AGE, then there is little hope in advancing your knowledge on the issue and stop you from insulting others, like countrywoman.

This is a public forum and your comments could well be read by a highly stressed, vulnerable child or adult who is scared to get professional help, or even talk to their skeptical parents about their feelings with disastrous results.  So keep your thoughts to yourself please, you have said enough already.  I would also draw attention for all on the Forum to the Equality Act 2010 and in particular to the 9 protected characteristics:
age.
disability.
gender reassignment.
marriage and civil partnership.
pregnancy and maternity.
race.
religion or belief.
sex.

Sorry to get 'heavy' on this, and although free speech is a given right, the vulnerable must be protected and I have a duty as an advisor to both Kent Police and the Regional Counter Terrorism Advisory Group attached to Thames Valley Police to make this clear for their sake.  Lives can be destroyed with ignorance.

[Doctor Gollum]

What's the ninth?

[Lizzie Zoom]

Less wokery and more common sense is the way to go.

If adults feels they are in the wrong body then I wish them good luck and hope they can find emotional and perhaps physical help. Children need to be protected until they are 'capable' of making life changing decisions. It's really not rocket science.

We must agree to disagree, sweetie......despite me being right.

If you're right, then this is so common that everyone of us would have to know of children being 'groomed' like this. Every teacher in the country should be able to give many examples. Neither of those things are true.


A quick google of the figures suggests that there are fewer than 3000 children or adolescent gender identity patients in the UK, out of a population of 12.5 million. That is about 0.015%, which is both practically and statistically insignificant.


You are inventing a problem based on nothing but your own bias.

Well said Nick

In fact it is only estimated, perhaps the Census will make it clearer, that about 1 in every 5,000 to 10,000 are transgendered which results in about a total of between 200,000 to 500,000 officially - I repeat that is an ESTIMATE.  Many trans individuals are too frightened to make their feelings known or get help, which only pushes up the suicide potential, especially when they come across the bias and ignorance shown by Opti!!

[Lizzie Zoom]

What's the ninth?

Sorry, the official list should show Sexual Orientation as the ninth.

[Doctor Gollum]

What's the ninth?

Sorry, the official list should show Sexual Orientation as the ninth.

Is that in addition to sex then?

[Sir Tigger KC]

What about misandry?  Shouldn't that be on the list? 

Poor Lord Opti is quite vulnerable you know!                                                                                                               

[Lizzie Zoom]

What's the ninth?

Sorry, the official list should show Sexual Orientation as the ninth.

Is that in addition to sex then?

Yes. "Sex" is male or female discrimination

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

So we are turning the world upside down and abolishing all known norms as well as strictly limiting freedom of speech and expression for 0.015% of people who could possibly in certain circumstances be adversely affected by something - maybe. 

[Lizzie Zoom]

What about misandry?  Shouldn't that be on the list? 

Poor Lord Opti is quite vulnerable you know!                                                                                                               

    I am beginning to wonder!!

[Doctor Gollum]

At most only three of those things have any bearing on anything official, age/DoB, Ethnicity (skin colour essentially) and Sex (M/F) being just about the only three items to actually identify a person compared to another. As per birth certificates and passports.

Everything else falls under FOAMYOB.

[Lizzie Zoom]

So we are turning the world upside down and abolishing all known norms as well as strictly limiting freedom of speech and expression for 0.015% of people who could possibly in certain circumstances be adversely affected by something - maybe. 

So minorities (about 5% who are trans based on official estimated figures) do not matter and should not be protected?

Free speech is great and I fully support it, but when it hurts and badly affects fellow human beings it must be controlled.

[Lizzie Zoom]

At most only three of those things have any bearing on anything official, age/DoB, Ethnicity (skin colour essentially) and Sex (M/F) being just about the only three items to actually identify a person compared to another. As per birth certificates and passports.

Everything else falls under FOAMYOB.

No, the Equality Act 2010 sets out the NINE protected characteristics and is enforced by the authorities.

Anyone of us could be discriminated against so it is there to protect the weak, vulnerable and those generally susceptible to Hate Crime.

[Doctor Gollum]

Might as well add political affiliations and allergies to the list then.

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Your moving the goalposts. 0.015 % figure suited your argument in one post but changes to 5% when it suits in another.
You either have freedom of speech or you dont. Having controlled freedom of speech is like being a little bit pregnant.
If you disagree with what someone says dont ban them from saying it, argue against what they said.