Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega Electrical and Audio Help => Topic started by: kcl on 13 May 2013, 12:06:22
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How on earth did they manage to do this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMSa48yOGGE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMSa48yOGGE)
I want one too! Most of the original functions (not sure about satnav), reversing camera display AND the movies... :'(
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They add a small interface device between the CID processor and the LCD panel.
This allows you to squirt other feeds into the unit such as reversing camera and TV feed
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Probably just fed RGB or what ever the format is in to the screen via a switch or reed.
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Quite like the reversing camera ;D
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I'd like those features, how easy is add said "small interface device" ?
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I'd like those features, how easy is add said "small interface device" ?
Theres a "How To" or more like a "How I did it" or one of the German Forums kicking around somewhere from memory. Looked into myself a few years back, and decided it was too much hag for the desired result. ;)
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This car has fiited an interface with a switch so you choose what do you want to see. The rev camera view switches on with the rev sensor in the gear stick.
The guy that sells the interfaces also repairs the common CID problems (stripes, blank screen) very cheap.
That is the car of a mate. He has an iPod connected to the interface.
Cheers
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Hello,
I'm the designer of that interface. It allows one RGB input and two composite. One part of the interface is installed inside the CID:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2zdu5xj.jpg)
We managed to get Windows mobile in the native resolution:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2gv4sgj.jpg)
But right now we've found the Android much more interesting ...
(http://i39.tinypic.com/24b5b2b.jpg)
So we're developing an Android GPS box compatible with the low res. stock navy displays, including the Opel 4:3 CID.
Regards.
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Looks interesting.Keep us up to date with your work
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Hello,
I'm the designer of that interface. It allows one RGB input and two composite. One part of the interface is installed inside the CID:
We managed to get Windows mobile in the native resolution:
But right now we've found the Android much more interesting ...
So we're developing an Android GPS box compatible with the low res. stock navy displays, including the Opel 4:3 CID.
Regards.
Thats somewhat different and a lot neater than the one I saw on the German Forum, looks tidy ;) the Android bit is interesting. keep us informed.
How do you plan to control the Touch Screen feature of the OS?
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That reverse camera does look mighty fine :y
think I may be adding to my, already very early, Christmas list ;D
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That reverse camera does look mighty fine :y
think I may be adding to my, already very early, Christmas list ;D
Reverse camera on an omega? Whats wrong with good ol MK 1 eyeballs.
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Thats somewhat different and a lot neater than the one I saw on the German Forum, looks tidy ;) the Android bit is interesting. keep us informed.
How do you plan to control the Touch Screen feature of the OS?
In the Vectra B/omega as you know there is a plastic cover in the dashboard, so it is not possible to add a resistive touch panel (unles you make a cut in this plastic, leaving the speedo needles 'exposed' and not very esthetic ...). But using a touch pad or trackball through USB is perfectly possible, Android 4.2 natively supports HID peripherals.
This is the prototype installed in my car (Saab 93 SS). The stock navy screen is 400x234, only a bit more vert. resolution than the CID screen (320x234).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQasY-bS7UQ
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Very interesting :y - What is the Android device?
Have you considered a Raspberry Pi?
Is this something you would do as a service? Quite a few people here have CID's myself included, I'm sure there would be considerable interest this CID upgrade.
What kind of cost would we be looking at for a CID to have the RGB input and two composite added?
As above keep us updated, looks very good :y :y
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Very interesting :y - What is the Android device?
Have you considered a Raspberry Pi?
Is this something you would do as a service? Quite a few people here have CID's myself included, I'm sure there would be considerable interest this CID upgrade.
What kind of cost would we be looking at for a CID to have the RGB input and two composite added?
As above keep us updated, looks very good :y :y
We're developing a complete device, based in ARM like raspberrypi but more powerful.
It comes with:
- Android 4.2
- GPS
- 4x USB Host
- Internet 3G (HSDPA)
- GSM
- 2x composite video input
- RGB/VGA output
All fully integrated in a small device of 100x120x30mm.
We hope it will be available in summer (probably August).
I would need a certain number of orders of the 4:3 CID video interface, that will allow the connection of the Android box, to make it worthwhile. In the Saab 93 forum I designed and produced the stock screen interface, but there were a lot of people interested.
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Thats somewhat different and a lot neater than the one I saw on the German Forum, looks tidy ;) the Android bit is interesting. keep us informed.
How do you plan to control the Touch Screen feature of the OS?
In the Vectra B/omega as you know there is a plastic cover in the dashboard, so it is not possible to add a resistive touch panel (unles you make a cut in this plastic, leaving the speedo needles 'exposed' and not very esthetic ...). But using a touch pad or trackball through USB is perfectly possible, Android 4.2 natively supports HID peripherals.
This is the prototype installed in my car (Saab 93 SS). The stock navy screen is 400x234, only a bit more vert. resolution than the CID screen (320x234).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQasY-bS7UQ
Yes, I know exactly what you mean about the screen, quiet a few years back I was using the Windows CE OS from a Sat Nav, I found a Becker Sat Nav that fitted perfectly within the MID display holder on the Omega, to make it easier the Becker Sat Nav had a on board MP3 and Video player, so the plan was to have integrated Sat Nav and Music through the CD Changer input to the HU, even mounted the SD Card Slot remotely so it could be accessed. All worked well but the biggest problem was the touch screen and the Clocks just didn't work well so gave up and shelved the idea.
I like the idea of Andriod though as you say a lot more flexible. ;)
As Tunnis says keep us posted, lots of CID users on the Forum. :y
Think I can see some requests for a How To coming up. ;)
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Very interesting :y - What is the Android device?
Have you considered a Raspberry Pi?
Is this something you would do as a service? Quite a few people here have CID's myself included, I'm sure there would be considerable interest this CID upgrade.
What kind of cost would we be looking at for a CID to have the RGB input and two composite added?
As above keep us updated, looks very good :y :y
We're developing a complete device, based in ARM like raspberrypi but more powerful.
It comes with:
- Android 4.2
- GPS
- 4x USB Host
- Internet 3G (HSDPA)
- GSM
- 2x composite video input
- RGB/VGA output
All fully integrated in a small device of 100x120x30mm.
We hope it will be available in summer (probably August).
I would need a certain number of orders of the 4:3 CID video interface, that will allow the connection of the Android box, to make it worthwhile. In the Saab 93 forum I designed and produced the stock screen interface, but there were a lot of people interested.
Sounds more interesting with every post, very interested in this so keep us updated on progress. :):)
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That reverse camera does look mighty fine :y
think I may be adding to my, already very early, Christmas list ;D
Reverse camera on an omega? Whats wrong with good ol MK 1 eyeballs.
Absolutely nothing wrong with my eyes, its the Mrs who drives a Corsa thats the issue. She feels the Omega is ''too big'' :-\
But then again I do drive 50ft artic lorries for a living ;D
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We're developing a complete device, based in ARM like raspberrypi but more powerful.
It comes with:
- Android 4.2
- GPS
- 4x USB Host
- Internet 3G (HSDPA)
- GSM
- 2x composite video input
- RGB/VGA output
All fully integrated in a small device of 100x120x30mm.
We hope it will be available in summer (probably August).
I would need a certain number of orders of the 4:3 CID video interface, that will allow the connection of the Android box, to make it worthwhile. In the Saab 93 forum I designed and produced the stock screen interface, but there were a lot of people interested.
What is the status?
Any progress?
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That user was last active: 21 May 2013, 00:16:22
So I doubt he is checking this, but he did list this website in his profile.
http://www.proenium.com/ (http://www.proenium.com/)
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Reverse camera on an omega? Whats wrong with good ol MK 1 eyeballs.
I do believe the MK 1 model has a flaw in that you can't see when a small child has decided to stand smack bang centre at the rear of the car as you try to reverse off the drive, so in that scenario a little bit of camera assistance comes in handy so you can see EVERYTHING that is behind you regardless of whether it's in your blind spot or not.
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I wonder if this is still running project.... :-\
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I found this, my someone try to make it.
http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
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I found this, my someone try to make it.
http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
Yes that's the original thread. Used to be packed full of viruses and spy wear for windows users last time I saw it. :( Michael Grosser iirc. Sells a kit of parts iirc, but a long time ago now.
Its a very nice expansion of the oe CID head units. Just need to convince one of the electronics gods on here to make one for the electronic plebs like me.
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Also though, don't forget analogue tv is no longer available in some areas, since that German link was posted. Not sure how digital tv copes with a mobile target. Probably best via 3G and mobile phone output I guess these days.
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Just get a little freeview box?
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DTV works in cars, obviously, as that's all that's fitted now.
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Beats me why anyone would want to watch TV on a tiny CID :-\
A reversing camera would be good though, or utilising a CID with a double din aftermarket unit and pushing the NAV display up to it so it's in a more sensible place.
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Beats me why anyone would want to watch TV on a tiny CID :-\
A reversing camera would be good though, or utilising a CID with a double din aftermarket unit and pushing the NAV display up to it so it's in a more sensible place.
We've been down this road though, I thought. They CID, 2013/15, Telematics only works as a group, all designed together. Even DaveDnd couldn't find an HU designed to work with a remote display, iirc....?
Wouldn't want an aftermarket HU anyway personally, I've already got a phone cradle and harmon Kardon modulator screen and controller in the car.
I just think it would be great to have a video in, to the CID, then anything would be displayed, as required. No?
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A multimedia device with a track ball, or on screen mouse would work well, as there'd be no need to look further down than the screen. And would do away with the Harmon Kardon. :)
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When looking at Volvo's, some V70's came with full TV/Sat Nav, popup colour screen, this looked good.
=1&tx_commerce_pi1[path]=19]http://www.imiv.ca/cms/products/product-list/imiv-classic-packages/?tx_commerce_pi1[mDepth]=1&tx_commerce_pi1[path]=19 (http://www.imiv.ca/cms/products/product-list/imiv-classic-packages/?tx_commerce_pi1[mDepth)
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When looking at Volvo's, some V70's came with full TV/Sat Nav, popup colour screen, this looked good.
=1&tx_commerce_pi1[path]=19]http://www.imiv.ca/cms/products/product-list/imiv-classic-packages/?tx_commerce_pi1[mDepth]=1&tx_commerce_pi1[path]=19 (http://www.imiv.ca/cms/products/product-list/imiv-classic-packages/?tx_commerce_pi1[mDepth)
A lot of these boxes simply break into the CD Changer loom and interface the Ipod as a collection of tracks through the disc selection.
Volvo Sat Nav.... errrr have a word with Josh and see what he says!
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Beats me why anyone would want to watch TV on a tiny CID :-\
A reversing camera would be good though, or utilising a CID with a double din aftermarket unit and pushing the NAV display up to it so it's in a more sensible place.
We've been down this road though, I thought. They CID, 2013/15, Telematics only works as a group, all designed together. Even DaveDnd couldn't find an HU designed to work with a remote display, iirc....?
Wouldn't want an aftermarket HU anyway personally, I've already got a phone cradle and harmon Kardon modulator screen and controller in the car.
I just think it would be great to have a video in, to the CID, then anything would be displayed, as required. No?
Ahh, you miss understand me! Perhaps I should have explained better but the dog needed walking!
Ditch the NCDC and Telematics, replace with a quality Double Din head unit with built in Nav, Bluetooth (for phone), Ipod Integrated connectivity or USB slot for MP3 storage option and video and audio out. Modify CID with RGB interface board and connect to Head unit for displaying HU info / NAV in parallel with head unit display. Install half height mid/tid somewhere (perhaps put in case and put on centre console ledge in-front of centre air vents) and swap stalk over
Of course you'll also need to replace the speakers with something better with matching ohms and put a nice little amp in the boot.
I know it's a mammoth task but would be a nice project. Biggest problem to me would be finding a quality head unit that looks acceptable in the centre of an Omega Dash, I think customising the bezel with the same style of rubberised coating as the switches would be the only option - there usually aren't many buttons on these units as they are touch screen.
Plenty of people have moved the display in Vauxhalls:-
http://www.astraownersclub.com/vb/showthread.php/410121-Relocating-the-MFD-to-2nd-din-slot
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=move+astra+display&safe=off&tbm=isch&ei=OIHNU7X3IeXH7AbQ64C4DQ#facrc=_&imgrc=Bm3HSZhWi5fT5M%253A%3Bif11k0FDDQGxLM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.r1ck.com%252Fastra%252Ftomtom%252Froof.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.astraownersnetwork.co.uk%252Farchive%252Findex.php%252Ft-53248.html%3B800%3B600
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So, this CID input. How do we go about making a board? Local machinist? CNC'd?
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So, this CID input. How do we go about making a board? Local machinist? CNC'd?
Need someone who can make up the printed circuit board from the images ideally. Would be far easier to be able to by the full kit and just have to solder on the components.
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So, this CID input. How do we go about making a board? Local machinist? CNC'd?
Need someone who can make up the printed circuit board from the images ideally. Would be far easier to be able to by the full kit and just have to solder on the components.
Designing and manufacturing PCB's is a lot easier and cheaper than it used to be. We do it all the time here at work. For small runs (i.e.less than 50 boards), try www.pcbtrain.co.uk. They will manufacture high quality PCB's in up to 6 layers. If you've got a parts list, they will also quote to assemble them for you. If the circuit contains surface mount components I would not reccomend selling 'kits' since assembly is beyond most folks soldering capabilities, and you'd end up with a lot of whinging customers.
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Wooohohooo my imagination is running away with me now LCO 112G :y
Can we use their expertise to add wifi connectivity and stream video too it. Can we build in Bluetooth and stream audio to it? Can we have numerous inputs and outputs for head rest and roof mounted screens for those that might want it? Can we can we hmm? :)
...or shall we just keep it simple aye. ;D
Good shout, IMO anyway. (But I know nothing about sparks :( )
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Wooohohooo my imagination is running away with me now LCO 112G :y
Can we use their expertise to add wifi connectivity and stream video too it. Can we build in Bluetooth and stream audio to it? Can we have numerous inputs and outputs for head rest and roof mounted screens for those that might want it? Can we can we hmm? :)
...or shall we just keep it simple aye. ;D
Good shout, IMO anyway. (But I know nothing about sparks :( )
You misunderstand. PCBtrain will make the PCB's and assemble the components onto them ready for sale. But someone else has to design the circutry and PCB in the first place. All the things on your wish list are probably possible though.
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And readily available aftermarket...
Example only, but you get the point... http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-sony-xnv-l77bt_p-26593.htm
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And readily available aftermarket...
Example only, but you get the point... http://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-sony-xnv-l77bt_p-26593.htm
If anyone thinks I'm binning my CID in the dash, Bose speaker set, check control, Bc, And oe appearance for one of those they have another thing coming.
The only thing missing from the oe system is inputs. That's it.
Not to mention price or that type of unit. No way. You forget Al, i've seen yours ping the dash surround off every time the wrong button is pressed. It does have a self destruct button does it ;D
The whole ease of use of the CID is that the visual point is just to the left of the speedo for general use. Putting the screen in the head unit is not an improvement. Sorry.
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And, it's made by Fony.
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While I agree with you about the OEM look, I'm afraid i'll have to disagree about binning the Bose, of all the Omega Bose setups I've listened too I'd say there's only two that have an acceptable tightness and definition from the speakers - basically the speakers are all old an tired, but then they would be after 12+ years!
What's required is a set of 2 Ohm speakers with similar response levels and in the same sizes....... Ah well, never mind!
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Was one example, and most every manufacturer produces a similar unit :y the Kenwood version is well received, for example.
Mine still has functioning BC, so not sure where you're coming from there :-\ any functionality mine lacks is because it's plod, and nowt to do with the HU...
You wouldn't need the CID with a 7" colour touch screen... and Bose seems to be a marmite thing too ::)
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IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
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IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
But they do offer all the functionality on the list straight out of the box though :-\ and being low down, you're removing the temptation of watching things on the move ::)
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IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
Which (assuming the resolution is supported) could be diverted to the CID with the RGB modification. However, you'll have to control it from the HU touchscreen. That said, inputting destinations into an NCDC/R isn't helped by the archaic interface.
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IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
But they do offer all the functionality on the list straight out of the box though :-\ and being low down, you're removing the temptation of watching things on the move ::)
Any installer who has an ounce of common sense knows that the inhibit connection should be hooked up to the handbrake, not doing so is a total disregard for human life in my book. But then we are now faced with a level of human intelligence that thinks it's acceptable to stick an Ipad on the windscreen......
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You wouldn't actually get very far whilst watching summat before you killed yourself or some other poor sod... and I would like to credit most here with a couple more ounces of common sense than the general populace :y
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IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
But they do offer all the functionality on the list straight out of the box though :-\ and being low down, you're removing the temptation of watching things on the move ::)
S'not for me, the position makes it useless IMHO. Same as the CARiN in PFL - the nav functionality and accuracy was fantastic (if a tad slow with the latest maps), but the screen position made it useless. Hence the NCDR in the bullet
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But they do offer all the functionality on the list straight out of the box though :-\ and being low down, you're removing the temptation of watching things on the move ::)
[/quote]IMHO the screens on double din HU's are too low in an Omega to be useful. And it really pains me to agree with gixer ;D
But they do offer all the functionality on the list straight out of the box though :-\ and being low down, you're removing the temptation of watching things on the move ::)
Has Taxi Al had...
CID
2015
Telematics
Bose
All Factory fitted?
Do a search, this subject has been done to death. There is NO after market HU that will cater for a dash mounted colour display. It is THE shining light of the omega range and I ain't binning it for that pile of shite.
....not while it's still works anyway ;D
As said, it just needs some inputs. Granted, the moment you have to start fiddling about with add on ports and boxes you know it's out of date. TMC would be nice blah blah blah.
But don't knock the top if the range head unit until
1 you've owned one and worked round the short comings etc
2 have come up against the limits if what's possible to modify it.
Further, at least two prominent members have gone to great lengths to retro fit looms and modulator inputs for me. If nothing else, out of respect for their work, the standard head unit and set up stays. It just needs a few further tweaks. That's all.
Oh, and one corner of the front facia panel needs slightly re attaching. But apart from that... ;D
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Also, how much us that pcb likely to cost to solder up and instal?
Versus £6-900 for a colour head unit, that will loose the colour dash display to a lower position, worsen the sound due to bose removal and yes I have compared Bose to some modern set ups and the gains are marginal at best with a HUGE dolop of cash to achieve those minuscule gains.
I think I'll try the pcb route first before going down a road that costs more than most omegas are worth.
Now, can we get on....? So this little pcb gizmo. Anyone with a rough guess how much. I could contact them I guess but I'm at work on me phone, which is a pita. Plus there's slot if experience here. :)
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Apart from a reversing camera or better full screen nav, can't see many other practical day to day uses.
TomTom style of Nav would be nice, I know the on-board one is more accurate but lack of postcodes and unreliability of CD reading makes it a pain to use.
Trouble is TomTom would need to be touch screen, which you cannot do, or have some kind of input, so clunky.
Bit screwed really, anything will be a hack and not very practical. See some where they hook up an Android device, but don't see the point.
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Horses for courses... :y
Vectra C was available in Germany with a dvd version of the Ncdc, 2017? Which could have potential although Canbus and Bose might be a stumbling block...
In some respects I was lucky having a plod car, as it was a blank canvas, and whilst I appreciate your reasons for upgrading the stock unit, I can't help but wonder that you are passing several supermarkets in order to buy a loaf of bread from the bakers in the next town :-\ so to speak...
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The simple answer to a decent audio input is to break into the CD audio circuit between the CD Changer and the Headunit.... There are some drawbacks with that solution though.
Regarding the video input, I think a reversing camera is the only possible sensible use for it.
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Horses for courses... :y
Vectra C was available in Germany with a dvd version of the Ncdc, 2017? Which could have potential although Canbus and Bose might be a stumbling block...
In some respects I was lucky having a plod car, as it was a blank canvas, and whilst I appreciate your reasons for upgrading the stock unit, I can't help but wonder that you are passing several supermarkets in order to buy a loaf of bread from the bakers in the next town :-\ so to speak...
Vectra C, full CAN opens up the World of DVD90's etc.
I would agree that any non-Bose equipped Omega is a good canvas to upgrade, not least because you can replace each element of the audio system when funds allow, eg. Upgrade the speakers first with the original Headunit in place, then upgrade the Headunit at a later date, maybe add in a steering wheel control and display adapter later etc etc.
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TomTom style of Nav would be nice, I know the on-board one is more accurate but lack of postcodes and unreliability of CD reading makes it a pain to use.
Trouble is TomTom would need to be touch screen, which you cannot do, or have some kind of input, so clunky.
As an addendum to the NCDC Nav, I use Co-pilot on a smartphone for the very latest roads when needed, huge problem is when you have a heat reflective windscreen because none of the modern smartphones or Sat Nav's have external aerial capability (* well unless you can pair a Bluetooth GPS unit to the smartphone). Where I need a specific POI database I'm forced to use an ancient TomTom Go with a proper dock that allows the GPS mouse under the rear parcel shelf to be plugged in.
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What would be the best connector to input the pcb thingy? I guess it depends on your chosen device to host media on. I'm currently on a gayphone for tomtom. And as said a touch screen will mean inputting commands prior to setting off, as the input method can't be seen on the CID, so a rack ball type option with pointer and clicker would make screen selection easy. That's not a popular device though, but does highlight the need to have the screen high up *IN THE DASH* though :)
A reversing camera would be the most obvious use, but hopefully any device could be displayed...? Apple have tv out options, as I'm sure Samsung must do as well. But then we're into touch again, so maybe needs must there.
Potentially looking at more than one video input then? :-\
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Horses for courses... :y
Vectra C was available in Germany with a dvd version of the Ncdc, 2017? Which could have potential although Canbus and Bose might be a stumbling block...
In some respects I was lucky having a plod car, as it was a blank canvas, and whilst I appreciate your reasons for upgrading the stock unit, I can't help but wonder that you are passing several supermarkets in order to buy a loaf of bread from the bakers in the next town :-\ so to speak...
Quite happy to travel to get the best and cheapest option. :)
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I found this, my someone try to make it.
http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
Yes I did.
Rearview camera with CID (its all in Dutch) (http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134)
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I found this, my someone try to make it.
http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
Yes I did.
Rearview camera with CID (its all in Dutch) (http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134)
Good work Vega I like that. Looks a bit simpler as well, they way you've shown it there. Did I mention I like that? A lot :y
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Also, how much us that pcb likely to cost to solder up and instal?
Versus £6-900 for a colour head unit, that will loose the colour dash display to a lower position, worsen the sound due to bose removal and yes I have compared Bose to some modern set ups and the gains are marginal at best with a HUGE dolop of cash to achieve those minuscule gains.
I think I'll try the pcb route first before going down a road that costs more than most omegas are worth.
Assuming the PCB is roughly 100mmx50mm a good quality gold plated PCB would cost around £50 one off, or £85 for 4, or £127 for 10, or £200 for 25.
The price for soldering the PCB's depends on the number of components. Assuming about 20 components, you're looking at £50 for 1, £80 for 5, £120 for 10 or £275 for 25.
Plus the cost of the components - probably £20-£30 by the looks of it.
Plus VAT, P&P etc.
Finger in the air suggests around £200 one off, dropping to perhaps £40 in 25 off quantities. Note that this doesn't include any allowance for fitting it to the CID, or wiring it into the car, or any beer money for whoever takes the project on.
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While I agree with you about the OEM look, I'm afraid i'll have to disagree about binning the Bose, of all the Omega Bose setups I've listened too I'd say there's only two that have an acceptable tightness and definition from the speakers - basically the speakers are all old an tired, but then they would be after 12+ years!
What's required is a set of 2 Ohm speakers with similar response levels and in the same sizes....... Ah well, never mind!
The Bose amp will happily drive 4 ohm speakers and the small loss of power output will be hardly noticeable (given the log dB scale)
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Also, how much us that pcb likely to cost to solder up and instal?
Versus £6-900 for a colour head unit, that will loose the colour dash display to a lower position, worsen the sound due to bose removal and yes I have compared Bose to some modern set ups and the gains are marginal at best with a HUGE dolop of cash to achieve those minuscule gains.
I think I'll try the pcb route first before going down a road that costs more than most omegas are worth.
Assuming the PCB is roughly 100mmx50mm a good quality gold plated PCB would cost around £50 one off, or £85 for 4, or £127 for 10, or £200 for 25.
The price for soldering the PCB's depends on the number of components. Assuming about 20 components, you're looking at £50 for 1, £80 for 5, £120 for 10 or £275 for 25.
Plus the cost of the components - probably £20-£30 by the looks of it.
Plus VAT, P&P etc.
Finger in the air suggests around £200 one off, dropping to perhaps £40 in 25 off quantities. Note that this doesn't include any allowance for fitting it to the CID, or wiring it into the car, or any beer money for whoever takes the project on.
Your a lovely man, thankyou for the ball parks. I shall look into it further during my week off. :y
....which could be amusing as I have no idea what i'me talking about, although that's never been a problem in the past ;D :y
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Just to add, iirc, Mr Michael Grosser in one of those links was selling a complete kit of parts required, un soldered, for £200.
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Although our member in Spain mentioned a prototype ready in August....?
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While I agree with you about the OEM look, I'm afraid i'll have to disagree about binning the Bose, of all the Omega Bose setups I've listened too I'd say there's only two that have an acceptable tightness and definition from the speakers - basically the speakers are all old an tired, but then they would be after 12+ years!
What's required is a set of 2 Ohm speakers with similar response levels and in the same sizes....... Ah well, never mind!
The Bose amp will happily drive 4 ohm speakers and the small loss of power output will be hardly noticeable (given the log dB scale)
:y :y :y :y
I replaced my fronts with 4ohm Infinity's from my previous car (screwed straight in) and the Bose drives them fine. They are more efficient so I actually turned them down one notch to get the sound stage right. Sounded much better from the off. It's highly unlikely more resistance is going to damage anything, less usually will if pushed to hard.
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Been reading this with alot of interest..
But I have been thinking along a different idea..
Instead, replace the unit with a nice 5" LCD with HDMI, VGA and composite inputs..
The LCD wouldn't be a perfect fit as there will be a gap above/below the LCD but it will be of a higher resolution than the CID (800x480)..
I has thinking then the HDMI input can be connected to an Android stick MK802 or Eqiv, Composite to the reversing camera and maybe the VGA from a SBC or microchip PIC controller..
The stereo would have to be replaced, and currently this design wouldn't show any fuel consumption info or details about any faults/failures/fluid lows..
RE the PCB method above, A company called OSHPark in America do prototype PCB's $5 Per Sq inch for 3 PCB's.. So 100x50 is approx $40 (£23.65) for 3, £7.88 Per PCB. Great quality PCB's too..
Carl,
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Been reading this with alot of interest..
But I have been thinking along a different idea..
Instead, replace the unit with a nice 5" LCD with HDMI, VGA and composite inputs..
The LCD wouldn't be a perfect fit as there will be a gap above/below the LCD but it will be of a higher resolution than the CID (800x480)..
I has thinking then the HDMI input can be connected to an Android stick MK802 or Eqiv, Composite to the reversing camera and maybe the VGA from a SBC or microchip PIC controller..
The stereo would have to be replaced, and currently this design wouldn't show any fuel consumption info or details about any faults/failures/fluid lows..
RE the PCB method above, A company called OSHPark in America do prototype PCB's $5 Per Sq inch for 3 PCB's.. So 100x50 is approx $40 (£23.65) for 3, £7.88 Per PCB. Great quality PCB's too..
Carl,
There is the key problem, even more so for Elites as they have Bose
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While I agree with you about the OEM look, I'm afraid i'll have to disagree about binning the Bose, of all the Omega Bose setups I've listened too I'd say there's only two that have an acceptable tightness and definition from the speakers - basically the speakers are all old an tired, but then they would be after 12+ years!
What's required is a set of 2 Ohm speakers with similar response levels and in the same sizes....... Ah well, never mind!
The Bose amp will happily drive 4 ohm speakers and the small loss of power output will be hardly noticeable (given the log dB scale)
Interesting. Need to find some appropriate speakers and have a little play!
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So, this CID input. How do we go about making a board? Local machinist? CNC'd?
Need someone who can make up the printed circuit board from the images ideally. Would be far easier to be able to by the full kit and just have to solder on the components.
Designing and manufacturing PCB's is a lot easier and cheaper than it used to be. We do it all the time here at work. For small runs (i.e.less than 50 boards), try www.pcbtrain.co.uk. They will manufacture high quality PCB's in up to 6 layers. If you've got a parts list, they will also quote to assemble them for you. If the circuit contains surface mount components I would not reccomend selling 'kits' since assembly is beyond most folks soldering capabilities, and you'd end up with a lot of whinging customers.
Emailed these guys today with a few links.
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Can thing be done with mini facelift set up if I got hold of a CID screen? Probably nit as i have a philips/bose ccr800 headunit.
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Can thing be done with mini facelift set up if I got hold of a CID screen? Probably nit as i have a philips/bose ccr800 headunit.
Nope.
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Can thing be done with mini facelift set up if I got hold of a CID screen? Probably nit as i have a philips/bose ccr800 headunit.
Yes it can, TB has the full OE nav setup in his mini facelift with CID display
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Can thing be done with mini facelift set up if I got hold of a CID screen? Probably nit as i have a philips/bose ccr800 headunit.
Yes it can, TB has the full OE nav setup in his mini facelift with CID display
Philips/bose ccr800 headunit.
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Easy to bypass the Bose :y
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OK, Philips ccr800 headunit.
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Iirc, TB has a single din 2011 head unit in his mini face lift mv6, with nav in the boot via a Bose shelf.
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Received an email reply.
They say they can help, but need further instructions as to what I/we need them to do.
I presume machine the board and solder in the major components as a minimum. As some of those ribbon connections look tricky to solder on the very narrow tracks?
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Iirc, TB has a single din 2011 head unit in his mini face lift mv6, with nav in the boot via a Bose shelf.
Believe TB has the NCDR 1500 in his MV6 Prefacelift.
2011 generally only found in early Movano's and Corsa C's in other Countries.
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Received an email reply.
They say they can help, but need further instructions as to what I/we need them to do.
I presume machine the board and solder in the major components as a minimum. As some of those ribbon connections look tricky to solder on the very narrow tracks?
Get a price for both options, some of us don't mind doing the assembly but they can probably do it so cheaply that it's really not worth the effort.
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Iirc, TB has a single din 2011 head unit in his mini face lift mv6, with nav in the boot via a Bose shelf.
Believe TB has the NCDR 1500 in his MV6 Prefacelift.
Yes your right. Sorry. Looks tidy too.
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Received an email reply.
They say they can help, but need further instructions as to what I/we need them to do.
I presume machine the board and solder in the major components as a minimum. As some of those ribbon connections look tricky to solder on the very narrow tracks?
Get a price for both options, some of us don't mind doing the assembly but they can probably do it so cheaply that it's really not worth the effort.
Ok so price for;
Board only?
Board and components?
Board and components soldered?
Plus they are probably going to want to test it on something I guess? :-\
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Received an email reply.
They say they can help, but need further instructions as to what I/we need them to do.
I presume machine the board and solder in the major components as a minimum. As some of those ribbon connections look tricky to solder on the very narrow tracks?
Get a price for both options, some of us don't mind doing the assembly but they can probably do it so cheaply that it's really not worth the effort.
Ok so price for;
Board only?
Board and components?
Board and components soldered?
Plus they are probably going to want to test it on something I guess? :-\
2 & 3 I'd say, Needs input from a few people really :)
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
Oi, I'm the electronics numpty round here. Your supposed to know what your doing. ;D
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
Can the rgb input be adapted for component video :-\
Could then be used as a front monitor output from a double din h/u enabling nav and telephone displays to be repeated in the drivers field of view :-\
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Enables video into the CID. Via an interface box of your choosing, so could show Dbd tv, sat nav on a phone, or whatever your phone is displaying come to that, android, iOS, reversing camera, whatever. Anything with a video out prety much.
But needs an interface box as an add on, which would need the appropriate connections for the device of your choice. Should look into that actually...
And hopefully will cost considerably less that one of those silly fony double din screen on the floor efforts ;)
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That could get very messy very quickly given Crapples ability to make each generation totally incompatible with the previous and subsequent ones ::)
That said, if you can agree what is required then does sound promising :y
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
Can the rgb input be adapted fuor component video :-\
Could then be used as a front monitor output from a double din h/u enabling nav and telephone displays to be repeated in the drivers field of view :-\
Thats what Im saying Al, the CID's already have RGB in as well as CV, selected with a pin going high or low on the Sharp Screen, sorry not trying to be negative here, just trying to work out work the PCB's Chris is on about are for?, so again guessing multiple inputs or maybe the CV input needs inverting or something.
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
Can the rgb input be adapted fuor component video :-\
Could then be used as a front monitor output from a double din h/u enabling nav and telephone displays to be repeated in the drivers field of view :-\
Thats what Im saying Al, the CID's already have RGB in as well as CV, selected with a pin going high or low on the Sharp Screen, sorry not trying to be negative here, just trying to work out work the PCB's Chris is on about are for?, so again guessing multiple inputs or maybe the CV input needs inverting or something.
All the links are on this thread, at the start. :-\
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Ok, (theres a few) but Im on the mobile at the mo, so which link is the one that refers to your board being made up and I'll have a butchers. ;)
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Here do Zirk...
http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134 :y
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Here do Zirk...
http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134 :y
Thanks Al, had a quick look, its in german, so will have to wait tillI get home to translate, by the way is this one of Killer Hardware links, if so I posted something simular about 5 years ago and it got nuked for copyright reasons, sorry just asking. :-\
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Pass :-\ it's from a post by Vega a couple of pages back :y
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What do these PCB's do?, sorry not been following the Techy bits, theres RGB and CV input on the screens anyway so are we talking about a PCB for switching miltiple inputs maybe?
There is a switch for selecting multiple inputs and a sync separator, the screen needs vertical and horizontal sync signals and your average source does not provide this.
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Received an email reply.
They say they can help, but need further instructions as to what I/we need them to do.
I presume machine the board and solder in the major components as a minimum. As some of those ribbon connections look tricky to solder on the very narrow tracks?
PCB train will require PCB design files (typically Extended GERBER files), which means someone has to produce the circuit diagram and PCB layout first. They will then manufacture the PCB's using these design files. AFAIK, they won't do the design work for you - they just manufacture the PCB's and (optionally) assemble them for you. If you get them to assemble the boards they will supply some resistors and capacitors, but you will have to buy and free issue them all the connectors and other components - semiconductors, relays etc. They won't (AFAIK) actually test anything - that's your job - you designed it, you make it work ;D
Proper PCB's aren't 'machined'. At it's simplest they are done by taking fibreglass panels which are laminated on both sides with a thin layer of copper. The copper is then covered in a layer of photosensitive dye, and a laser is then used to 'draw' the desired layout pattern onto the photodye. Then the sheet goes into a photo developer liquid which removes the dye that hasn't been exposed by the laser. Next the sheet goes into a vat of acid which dissolves the exposed copper, but leaves the copper still covered by the exposed dye behind. This is called 'etching' - but it's a chemical etching not a mechanical one. Once etching is complete the board is washed to remove the remaining dye, and the holes are drilled. If it's a double sided/multilayer board, the inside of the holes is coated with a thin layer of carbon/graphite, and then electro plating is used to coat the inside of all the holes with metal, thus connecting tracks/pads on opposite sides of the board. The final stages are to plate the whole board with something that doesn't corrode (silver or gold typically), paint on a solder resist covering of all the tracks (leaving the pads exposed) and painting on a slik screen for component outlines and part numbers.
The PCB's I saw on one of the web pages did look 'machined' though. This suggests they were home made by someone with an X-Y micro milling machine (like a glorified dremmel). That's fine for cheap prototypes and one offs, but no-one in their right minds would do more than a couple of boards like that.
I do have the tools and tecnology to do the design - but sadly I don't have a CID in my car, and as someone else says I'm reluctant to rip-off someone elses design without their permission. It's really not fair.
I would also be really, really reluctant to supply anything except assembled units. Those connectors ARE beyond the capabilities of all but the most expert of home enthusiasts to solder down without lifting pads or causing shorts. It's just not worth the aggro.
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Here do Zirk...
http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134 :y
Thanks Al, had a quick look, its in german, so will have to wait tillI get home to translate, by the way is this one of Killer Hardware links, if so I posted something simular about 5 years ago and it got nuked for copyright reasons, sorry just asking. :-\
Its in Dutch. ;D
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Here do Zirk...
http://www.opelomegaportal.nl/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4134 :y
Thanks Al, had a quick look, its in german, so will have to wait tillI get home to translate, by the way is this one of Killer Hardware links, if so I posted something simular about 5 years ago and it got nuked for copyright reasons, sorry just asking. :-\
Its in Dutch. ;D
Dutch, German, Flemish, you all sound the bloody same to me ;D, actually shouldn't take the p*ss, as German was my first Language, cant speak a word of it now ::)
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I'm being asked;
Do you have Gerber files? Or do you need to have them made for you?
Wtf? ;D
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I'm being asked;
Do you have Gerber files? Or do you need to have them made for you?
Wtf? ;D
Fooked if I can make head nor tail of it, but, this might help...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerber_format ;D
I suspect you will need them made for you ::)
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Lol, yes, Gerber files are an output from a PCB layout tool as used by PCB houses to fabricate circuit boards.
Oh yes, they wont use a laser to expose the PCB photosensitive material as it would be far to slow and hence expensive, they use a high intensity UV light and a set of masks (masks being very cheap to produce these days thanks to modern printing methods).
Its possible to DIY PCB's using OH transparencies, UV light and developer and etch solutions.
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Lol, yes, Gerber files are an output from a PCB layout tool as used by PCB houses to fabricate circuit boards.
Oh yes, they wont use a laser to expose the PCB photosensitive material as it would be far to slow and hence expensive, they use a high intensity UV light and a set of masks (masks being very cheap to produce these days thanks to modern printing methods).
They don't make old style Photoplots anymore (like big photographic negatives). PCB train work on a batch principle using PCB panels that are 550mmx400mmm. They collect everybodys (small) PCB's and make one huge PCB containing everything. They then cut the one huge PCB up into the smaller individual parts, and send everyone their bit. In this way, they can pool the costs for several small jobs to make one large job. You only pay for the square inches of PCB that your part actually uses.
None of the PCB manufacturers we use have made Photoplots for around 20 years. They all use lasers straight onto the copper foil.
Its possible to DIY PCB's using OH transparencies, UV light and developer and etch solutions.
I've still got a bottle of Ferric chloride, some copper clad, and a Dalo pen in the cupboard. Yes you can make PCB's that way, or even the UV way you suggest. But why, if you can get a professionally made, double sided, plated through, solder resist and silk screened board for £50?
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I'm being asked;
Do you have Gerber files? Or do you need to have them made for you?
Wtf? ;D
Gerber files are the 'output' files from the PCB design software. If you want, I can make these for you from the circuit diagrams here :http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
However, you need to get permission from "Hardware Killer" first.
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I've still got a bottle of Ferric chloride, some copper clad, and a Dalo pen in the cupboard. Yes you can make PCB's that way, or even the UV way you suggest. But why, if you can get a professionally made, double sided, plated through, solder resist and silk screened board for £50?
Simple, because you can produce one from the info we have available here rather than re-capturing the design into a layout tool :y
What does need checking is how available the sync generator IC's are as I seem to recall such devices getting hard to source a few years ago.
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Looks to be available still, good old TI, the benefits of owning your own fab plants.!
I note that TI do 'samples' (they have always been good for that! :y)
The relays are nothing special in fact the circuit is very simple.
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The original site has a file on it which looks to be an output from Target 3001
http://server.ibfriedrich.com/wiki/ibfwikien/index.php?title=Main_Page
For which there appears to be a net limited trial version.
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Looks to be available still, good old TI, the benefits of owning your own fab plants.!
I note that TI do 'samples' (they have always been good for that! :y)
The relays are nothing special in fact the circuit is very simple.
We use LM1881's here at work. Should have a few spares lying around :-)
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I'm being asked;
Do you have Gerber files? Or do you need to have them made for you?
Wtf? ;D
Gerber files are the 'output' files from the PCB design software. If you want, I can make these for you from the circuit diagrams here :http://www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
However, you need to get permission from "Hardware Killer" first.
I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.
Some similar discussion here from about 5 years ago re Hardware Killer designs.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=87458.0
Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.
Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.
Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,
1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.
2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.
3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.
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I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.
Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.
Agree. That's what I said, wasn't it? However, the copyright is a mute point. Would take less that 8 hours to redesign the pcb layout from the circuit layout. As said it is a fairly trivial design.
Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.
You can't copyright an idea. You have to patent it. We've been using the LM1881 chip in our designs since about 1987.
Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,
Mission creep is what makes projects overbudget, overcomplicated and liable to failure ;)
1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.
What the PCB is doing is bringing the RGB and sync signals into the panel out to an external connector. The LM1881 appears to be there so that you can also feed in a composite video signal - which is what a simple camera will output. iPhone/Smartphone - no.
2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.
We build a multi video input device for a govenment agency. It can take RGBS, RGBSynconGreen, Video, VGA, Y/C, Y/U/V, HDMI. It costs £20000, and is in a 19 inch rack. Some of the things you are asking for require a fair bit of intelligence in the circuitry, all of which is available in cheap consumer units. If you attempt to re-design it all onto one board, for a production run of what - 20? - it'll cost a fortune. The best option is to provide the facility for an external video input to the CID, and use other readily available boxes to drive into it.
3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.
The CID doesn't have an audio function?
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Die komplett fertig aufgebaute und auf funktion geprüfte Leiterplatte direkt zum einbau
kostet 130€ + 6€ Versand.
Nur die nackte Leiterplatte
kostet 20 Euro plus 3 Euro Versand
Now my 1986 Grade 2 CSE German thinks that says he sells the bare PCB for 20€ plus 3€ P&P, or assembled units for 130€ plus 6€ P&P.
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I would say if your going to hand over somebody else copyrighted material to a Professional PCB Manufacturer then you should almost certainly get there permission before doing so, even though the idea is based on a Group Effort convenience rather than Commercial Gains.
Might be worth getting in touch with the guy and asking for his thoughts, never know he may have already gone down a similar route with someone or know the whereabouts of existing PCB boards.
Agree. That's what I said, wasn't it? However, the copyright is a mute point. Would take less that 8 hours to redesign the pcb layout from the circuit layout. As said it is a fairly trivial design.
Having said all that, as Mark says its a pretty simple design, put the PCB Layout design to one side or redesign the layout with some changes, and all you effectively have is a load of Dil Relays switching inputs and outputs on some track, would be difficult to copyright that idea. As for the Sync IC, its probably taken or could be taken from a Manufacturer Data Sheet anyway.
You can't copyright an idea. You have to patent it. We've been using the LM1881 chip in our designs since about 1987.
Also if we / you / or whoever are looking at making custom made Circuit Boards, should we not be looking at other features more suited to the CID/ AV application in question, ie,
Mission creep is what makes projects overbudget, overcomplicated and liable to failure ;)
Agreed, but I wasn't talking about reinventing the wheel here, if were talking about designing a PCB (as in the above comments) then wouldn't it make sense to add some simple changes, ie additional switching requirements rather than having them hanging them around externally.
1, The Circuit PCB in question is a bit basic, its offering RGB input to the Sharp Panel (CID), ie Scart signal o/p from a Freeview Box, DVD Player, Game Console etc, is this what people want?, your not going to be able to plug a simple Reversing Camera or iPhone, Smart Phone into this input without further electronic trickery.
What the PCB is doing is bringing the RGB and sync signals into the panel out to an external connector. The LM1881 appears to be there so that you can also feed in a composite video signal - which is what a simple camera will output. iPhone/Smartphone - no.[/quote]
No, the way Im reading the circuit its for RGB in, not CV single video signal in.
2. If we are looking at other features here, and I guessing the main one here would be plugging in your Mobile device for Music, Video, SatNav, Phone Calls screen display and various Cameras, then we need to be looking at CVBS input and possibly HDMI and VGA, whilst Im not suggesting that we design and add all these features to the PCB (although possible for some applications) we could think ahead and add additional switching and features into the PCB design rather than have a crows nest of switches and wiring behind the dash.
We build a multi video input device for a govenment agency. It can take RGBS, RGBSynconGreen, Video, VGA, Y/C, Y/U/V, HDMI. It costs £20000, and is in a 19 inch rack. Some of the things you are asking for require a fair bit of intelligence in the circuitry, all of which is available in cheap consumer units. If you attempt to re-design it all onto one board, for a production run of what - 20? - it'll cost a fortune. The best option is to provide the facility for an external video input to the CID, and use other readily available boxes to drive into it.[/quote]
Yep, I agree, but wasn't suggesting we plant all the possibilities in there, although in my opinion as above CV in would be good.
3, Whats the plan for Audio?, again any Audio switching, inputs / outputs, however its done, could again be integrated on the PCB design, which by the way wouldn't necessarily have to live inside the CID.
The CID doesn't have an audio function?[/quote]
Yes, I know, maybe Im jumping ahead of myself here, but guessing the wishlist for most on here looking at interfacing external Video through the CID, would also like to the audio source going through the same HU / CID set up. Nor difficult to do and as said could be adapted on the PCB. ;)
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Yep, I agree, but wasn't suggesting we plant all the possibilities in there, although in my opinion as above CV in would be good.
The cheap way to do that is to feed the CV signal into all 4 inputs - R,G,B and Sync. May need to faff with the 75R terminating resistors, and the result would be a Black and White display, but it would work.
Anything else would need a Composite to RGB decoder. We used to build those, but they were broadcast quality and cost mega bucks.
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The key things you have to consider is what the LCD panel will support signal wise (RGB plus sync in this case) and what's involved with supporting other interface types.
Its quite a lot more complicated to split a composite signal into RGB pus sync and any type of digital input would require a processor plus memory to downscale the video to meet the panels specification.
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From memory, this is the panel datasheet (Is it a 5 inch display?)
In which case, it already has dual switchable inputs......
http://www.sharpsme.com/download/LQ5AW136-SP-122605pdf
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From memory, this is the panel datasheet (Is it a 5 inch display?)
In which case, it already has dual switchable inputs......
http://www.sharpsme.com/download/LQ5AW136-SP-122605pdf
I looked into this Panel a few years back, so all a bit scratchy from memory, also manage to convince myself it had CVBS Pal/NTSC input but it doesn't so probably mixed it with a another Panel, but yes your right it does have dual RGB inputs but I seem to remember it may use the second i/p for the Map Display info :-\
Fairly sure the Omega ones where 126 Panels, the 136 were fitted to Audi's or VW or something like that.
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Fairly sure the Omega ones where 126 Panels, the 136 were fitted to Audi's or VW or something like that.
The LQ5AW136 supersedes the LQ5AW126, the colour output from the LQ5AW136 panel is a little better than the LQ5AW126.
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Google translate gives this from the hardware killer link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
Re copyright that translation reads;
SHOULD I DETERMINE THE CIRCUIT THE SOFTWARE OR THE MANUAL OR PICTURES OR DRAWINGS EVEN ANY PORTION OR EVEN COMPLETE example. IN E-BAY or elsewhere SOLD, OFFERED OR EVEN BE SETTLED I WILL COURTS AND WITH ALL! FUNDS AGAINST THIS ACTION !!
THIS CIRCUIT IS INTENDED FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE FREE, SO PRIVATE recreate IS ALLOWED!
So I take it from that, that reproduction is allowed for personal use, but not for profit. No?
Although, he mentions supplying a kit himself, with numerous options.
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Google translate gives this from the hardware killer link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
Re copyright that translation reads;
SHOULD I DETERMINE THE CIRCUIT THE SOFTWARE OR THE MANUAL OR PICTURES OR DRAWINGS EVEN ANY PORTION OR EVEN COMPLETE example. IN E-BAY or elsewhere SOLD, OFFERED OR EVEN BE SETTLED I WILL COURTS AND WITH ALL! FUNDS AGAINST THIS ACTION !!
THIS CIRCUIT IS INTENDED FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE FREE, SO PRIVATE recreate IS ALLOWED!
So I take it from that, that reproduction is allowed for personal use, but not for profit. No?
Although, he mentions supplying a kit himself, with numerous options.
Thats how I read it also Chris, but have already made my thoughts known regarding that one.
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Hi Zirk, sorry but I'm a bit confused.
Afaict, almost all the points and concerns you raise are covered in the link
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.hardwarekiller.bplaced.net/dvbtG.htm
In that the pcb and it's attached cable merely allow an input, in RGB, that works with the screen. Then, it's up to the owner to find a suitable converter (interface box) with the suitable input ports of your choice that output to the rgb cable/CID. There are numerous suggestions at the bottom of that link to allow connection of your favourite gadget. He even mentions connecting an Xbox to enable wifi...? Over kill but I guess since that link was made, other options would be handy. Apple TV might be useful for Apple owners as it a lot smaller than an Xbox and has a mirror option to show what ever is on the phones screen. Tomtom, google maps with traffic, or whatever. Ignoring touch screen suitability, and finding a suitable interface box of course. A lap top has an RBG out for instance.
Surely, provided an if box with rgb out and with the required inputs is all that's required?
There's also a link somewhere for inputting the cd ribbon for audio. I know there is I've seen it. Only question there is how the cd unit will cope with juggling the extra audio and the cd. Probably output both ;D
But ultimately, I presume, the inputs of sight and sound(excuse me I don't know the terms) will be turned on and off at the flick of a switch. Switch on, your chosen device is input. Switch off, head unit as normal function.
Which is why I said earlier, we need to be sure our required gadget has an interface box that suits our individual requirements with an rgb out. I haven't even looked yet tbh. :(
No...?
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The problem I see is that the resolution of the screen is so very much lower than that of any modern device that once you've downconverted it to RGB the text won't be readable.
You'd be better off replacing the panel with a more modern hi-res one of a similar size and driving it with a raspberry pi or similar. Then you'd lose the edwardian sat nav, though. :-\
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Depends what you want to output though, if its video or a reversing camera then the screen is more than up to the job plus your feeding it an analogue signal so wont see the usual scaling miss match between digital video sources that you can get. Your only issue will be with sources designed for large screens where the text screen ratio is not ideal.
I also note that HDMI to RGB analogue adaptors are readily available(and small)
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Agreed, it'll be fine for a reversing camera or similar, but I think converting a phone output to drive it would be a waste of time. Before modding the display, I would try the output of such a converter into a TV at standard definition, then bear in mind that the Omega's screen is much smaller, and lower resolution still.
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Lot of work for a reversing Camera, guess be worth it if you did not have parking sensors.
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Tbh the mirroring from an iphone screen is prety poor on a big screen, having seen it. Markedly less depth than a video played from the same device that's capable of HD quality video files.
Being honest again, I thought the mirroring output would benefit from a smaller screen. Although I take your point on text size. Could it be worse than a Dell lap top screen of early xp era....? (As that really was rubbish)
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To add, I certainly wouldn't allow that issue to halt the project. Personally.
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Could it be worse than a Dell lap top screen of early xp era....? (As that really was rubbish)
Yes, definitely.
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Reversing camera is the only function I would use it for personally, even have a nice source switch trigger from the reverse lights circuit!
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The problem I see is that the resolution of the screen is so very much lower than that of any modern device that once you've downconverted it to RGB the text won't be readable.
You'd be better off replacing the panel with a more modern hi-res one of a similar size and driving it with a raspberry pi or similar. Then you'd lose the edwardian sat nav, though. :-\
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221350797779?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649
This is what I'm looking at.
Carl,
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Spoke to the cad manager today, he agreed they are assuming I know more than diddly squat about electronics ;D . So there will be a project manager calling in a few days. He'll be able to guide the project for us by the sound of it.
So, presumably it would be quicker and cheaper if someone with some working knowledge of the process could speak with them. But that aside, they so seem interested and helpful :y
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I've started on my conversion using the 5" screen.
Here are some pics:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s0gh9hi3g91drk/OmegaLCD1.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s0gh9hi3g91drk/OmegaLCD1.jpg?dl=0
This was a MID display.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tfj2zohzwf7buu/OmegaLCD2.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tfj2zohzwf7buu/OmegaLCD2.jpg?dl=0
The screen running from an Android on a stick through HDMI.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tx64iobq077m0q/OmegaLCD3.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tx64iobq077m0q/OmegaLCD3.jpg?dl=0
Google maps running on the Android on a stick.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3gmqw8ngv64zkt/OmegaLCD4.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3gmqw8ngv64zkt/OmegaLCD4.jpg?dl=0
Raspberry PI B+ running through HDMI.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/78rpwjocnr55l9s/OmegaLCD5.jpg?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/78rpwjocnr55l9s/OmegaLCD5.jpg?dl=0
Inside the box (Not been secured fitted yet).
Carl,
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Looking good :y
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Excellent stuff. Good job :y
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Looks amazing! Keep it up, looking forward to seeing more :)
So what I'd like to know - is it possible to fit a CID in place of a MFD in a 1996 car, which can do all the reversing camera stuff etc.. but also display the data of the MFD? Or, to put it another way - can I have any colour screen 'hacked' to fit in the Omega, but still display the data of the MFD? (given that CIDs are somewhat rare)
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You need a single din head unit to run the CID. 2011 is it?
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Doesn't this result in losing the Computer side of things :-\
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Doesn't this result in losing the Computer side of things :-\
This?
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You need a single din head unit to run the CID. 2011 is it?
Apologies. What I meant was, ncdc 1500. TB has one with CID in his mini face lift mv6. Telematics in the Bose shelf in the boot.
And Al. If this is what you mean, it's FULLY functional. :y looks smart too. :)
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You need a single din head unit to run the CID. 2011 is it?
Apologies. What I meant was, ncdc 1500. TB has one with CID in his mini face lift mv6. Telematics in the Bose shelf in the boot.
And Al. If this is what you mean, it's FULLY functional. :y looks smart too. :)
Ah ok, makes a bit more sense... was partly what I couldn't get my head around, hence the Fony suggestion :-[
That HU I suggested elsewhere, fitted with a MID would give everything you required except Bose ::)
But if the fully functional CID keeps the trip computer, connects to AV inputs such as mirror link, works with telematics, Bose and the original HU/control then it will be the mutts... 8)
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WTF WOULD I WANT TO LOOSE BOSE AL? ;D
That fony pile of :-X will loose bc/check control/and the cid in the dash to replace it with a screen behind the gear stick. Why on earth would I want to do that?
Stop with the fony head units. It's not happening. ::)
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WTF WOULD I WANT TO LOOSE BOSE AL? ;D I'm sure you said you wouldn't... ;D
That fony pile of :-X will loose bc/check control/and the cid in the dash to replace it with a screen behind the gear stick. Why on earth would I want to do that? The cid would be replaced with a mid, keeping the bc/check control ::)
Stop with the fony head units. It's not happening. ::) I know... re read the last sentence of my previous post ;D
Daft brush... :P
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With Mirror link, the HU repeats what is on your phone screen... be it maps/gaypod/phone, so assuming the phone is mounted in sight/reach it effectively becomes the mid display :y
Not that it matters, as you have and like your current set up :y
Might be of interest to others without Bose though...
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It is of interest, definitely! :D
(http://genophoria.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)
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;D
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It is of interest, definitely! :D
(http://genophoria.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)
How many would you like. ;)
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Thing is, for a long while I've wanted to uprate, one some level, the MFD. Utilise the space. Maybe... Fit a Tom-Tom in the space - but you'd lose the MFD. Install a later stereo, with FL screen. A computer screen with rasberry pi (again, Id lose the MFD) But I'm in no way computerey. So very much looking for options/suggestions :)
PS - For a PFL '96 with SC804 and boot mounted autochanger...
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With Mirror link, the HU repeats what is on your phone screen... be it maps/gaypod/phone, so assuming the phone is mounted in sight/reach it effectively becomes the mid display :y
Not that it matters, as you have and like your current set up :y
Might be of interest to others without Bose though...
indeed it would. But who, with a CID, doesn't have bose? Very few. Wel me in fact in the project. ;D
I still wouldn't replace it with that Chaved up rubbish. Personally :P
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WTF WOULD I WANT TO LOOSE BOSE AL? ;D I'm sure you said you wouldn't... ;D
That fony pile of :-X will loose bc/check control/and the cid in the dash to replace it with a screen behind the gear stick. Why on earth would I want to do that? The cid would be replaced with a mid, keeping the bc/check control ::)
Stop with the fony head units. It's not happening. ::) I know... re read the last sentence of my previous post ;D
Daft brush... :P
So on a thread about a CID in full use, you want to remove the CID?
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With Mirror link, the HU repeats what is on your phone screen... be it maps/gaypod/phone, so assuming the phone is mounted in sight/reach it effectively becomes the mid display :y
Not that it matters, as you have and like your current set up :y
Might be of interest to others without Bose though...
indeed it would. But who, with a CID, doesn't have bose? Very few. Wel me in fact in the project. ;D
I still wouldn't replace it with that Chaved up rubbish. Personally :P
Didn't think iCraple worked with MirrorLink (well not fully anyway). MirrorLink was a Nokia thing before they gave the idea away for open source developers ie, Nokia, Samsung, Android users, etc.
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WTF WOULD I WANT TO LOOSE BOSE AL? ;D I'm sure you said you wouldn't... ;D
That fony pile of :-X will loose bc/check control/and the cid in the dash to replace it with a screen behind the gear stick. Why on earth would I want to do that? The cid would be replaced with a mid, keeping the bc/check control ::)
Stop with the fony head units. It's not happening. ::) I know... re read the last sentence of my previous post ;D
Daft brush... :P
So on a thread about a CID in full use, you want to remove the CID?
I was simply questioning the benefits... I actually admire the slightly stubborn nobility of what you're trying to achieve :y
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There's nothing stubborn or noble about it. Just development. Same with any other part of the omega.
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Stubborn nobility sounded better than sentimentalism... ;D
Joking aside, if it gives you the functionality you desire, whilst maintaining the factory look, then it can only be a good thing. No :-\
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Stubborn nobility sounded better than sentimentalism... ;D
Joking aside, if it gives you the functionality you desire, whilst maintaining the factory look, then it can only be a good thing. No :-\
Non Chav you mean. :)
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Unlike a Burberry ipod ;D
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Looks amazing! Keep it up, looking forward to seeing more :)
So what I'd like to know - is it possible to fit a CID in place of a MFD in a 1996 car, which can do all the reversing camera stuff etc.. but also display the data of the MFD? Or, to put it another way - can I have any colour screen 'hacked' to fit in the Omega, but still display the data of the MFD? (given that CIDs are somewhat rare)
As in...
(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/ncdr1500_install/IMG_2979.JPG)
It has the CID, but I've not put any non standard inputs in the back of it yet.
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Oh, and ignore the CARiN on the left, that's been taken out, obviously, soon after I fitted the NCDR1500 due to better satnav on the NCDR
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Cheers The Boy :y
Once I've got the trifling things like getting the engine to idle, get the front suspension replaced, found some steelie wheel and tyres, Mot'd & taxed, sold or given away the Turbo Weasel, then I can start playing!
I'll keep my eye out for an NCDR 1500, then :)
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Looks amazing! Keep it up, looking forward to seeing more :)
So what I'd like to know - is it possible to fit a CID in place of a MFD in a 1996 car, which can do all the reversing camera stuff etc.. but also display the data of the MFD? Or, to put it another way - can I have any colour screen 'hacked' to fit in the Omega, but still display the data of the MFD? (given that CIDs are somewhat rare)
As in...
(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/ncdr1500_install/IMG_2979.JPG)
It has the CID, but I've not put any non standard inputs in the back of it yet.
Yeah the finish on those buttons doesn't chip off at all, does it. ;D
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Cheers The Boy :y
Once I've got the trifling things like getting the engine to idle, get the front suspension replaced, found some steelie wheel and tyres, Mot'd & taxed, sold or given away the Turbo Weasel, then I can start playing!
I'll keep my eye out for an NCDR 1500, then :)
you'll struggle to get a 1500 paired with a cid, (in fact you might struggle full stop,) so will most likely need to buy each separately. In which case be sure to get the pairing code for each unit, and that each unit is de paired before buying. :)
This means only buying from sellers that know what they are doing and have tech 2 available to de pair the units. This makes it even more difficult to find suitable de paired units, sadly.
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Cheers The Boy :y
Once I've got the trifling things like getting the engine to idle, get the front suspension replaced, found some steelie wheel and tyres, Mot'd & taxed, sold or given away the Turbo Weasel, then I can start playing!
I'll keep my eye out for an NCDR 1500, then :)
you'll struggle to get a 1500 paired with a cid, (in fact you might struggle full stop,) so will most likely need to buy each separately. In which case be sure to get the pairing code for each unit, and that each unit is de paired before buying. :)
This means only buying from sellers that know what they are doing and have tech 2 available to de pair the units. This makes it even more difficult to find suitable de paired units, sadly.
Good job I have a spare NCDR1100 here then as well ::)
(NCDR1100 has the wrong icons on buttons for telematics use)
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Good job I have a spare NCDR1100 here then as well ::)
That's tosh, its currently in the Battlebus, as it was easier to fit that than decode the cdr500 that was in there ;D
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No luck with the circuit board. :(
No explanation why so far. :(
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Doesn't this result in losing the Computer side of things :-\
As it stands, Yes, and the stereo information.
I am planning to use a raspberry PI to pick up the warning inputs, temperature and the fuel MPG.
Carl,