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[jacko]

Okay chaps here we are again

So soon after sorting running problems

Has now failed not

Co emissions max limit 0.300 actual 0.401
Chap recons can of cat cleaner should sort it
What’s your views bear in mind car has been running
Rough for a few months so could be chocked up.

Both rear brake pipes corrosion are they front to back strait or can you just replace rear
Pipes this is on 2.2 2002

And front nearside subframe mounting corroded

Nightmare

What’s your thoughts guys

[Doctor Gollum]

Decent fuel, Wynns injector cleaner and rag ten bells out of it just before the test.

Brake lines should be easy enough. If actually that bad.

Front subframe rust is subjective. Cleaning it up and underseal might be enough or could open up a hole. Also there are six mounting points, so the issue, and fix, will vary according to which one.

[Doctor Gollum]

To add, the brake lines are identical across the Omega range.

What's the EXACT wording on the Fail sheet, or give the Reg so we can read the Fail sheet in its entirety...

[jacko]

Fp02kta

[jacko]

Sorry to be thick but are you saying the brake lines arnt one pipe back to front

[addy]

On the wifes omega, it was the hard lines from the main feed to each rear caliper. I bought these, they worked great no problems with fittings etc.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283807451840?hash=item42143e0ac0:g:fDgAAOSw~Y1g6yva

[Doctor Gollum]

OK, I'll will start with the brake lines... They've been advisories for the last two tests

Depends which lines they actually mean as the Omega has rigid lines that are attached to the rear trailing arms as well as the length of the car.

The wording suggests the trailing arm pipes.

The subframe mounting rust hasn't previously been mentioned, so you MIGHT get away with a gentle scrub with a wire brush and coating with underseal and a different tester. Obviously this doesn't actually fix the problem, but could get another year or so out of it.

The emissions suggestion is a thing... A 2.0 16v I owned previously failed in a similar fashion and the fix was a £60 system clean at VX... I was selling the car and wanted it to have a fresh Mot, which was carried out during the test drive. Paying to get it sorted there and then was the decent thing to do. Cost effective? Probably not, but it solved the issue.

Brake lines might cost you a couple of hours and dome materials to sort, but no big deal.

The rust, as already alluded, is potentially a different issue...

[Nick W]

On the wifes omega, it was the hard lines from the main feed to each caliper. I bought these, they worked great no problems with fittings etc.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283807451840?hash=item42143e0ac0:g:fDgAAOSw~Y1g6yva

£37??


That's a few seconds flaring, some time bending and <£2 worth of materials per pipe.... And they are probably easier to fit if you bend them as you go.

[Doctor Gollum]

A cautionary note... A pre MoT inspection a couple of months before removes alot of the stress and last minute surprise from the actual test.

[dave the builder]

Nearside Front Subframe mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength inner wheel arch
fail criteria explained :
5.3.6. Complete suspension system
(a) The strength or continuity of the load bearing structure within 30cm of any sub-frame, spring or suspension component mounting (a ’prescribed area’):

(i) is significantly reduced or inadequately repaired

so you need to inspect the chassis legs ,in detail , decide how much removing parts and welding is involved ,or get a quote if you are not doing the work BEFORE spending time and money on brake pipes
though you could put cataclean and STP Fuel Injector Cleaner (or similar,that's what i use ) in to get that circulating / working

[LC0112G]

Sorry to be thick but are you saying the brake lines arnt one pipe back to front

Correct. They're a solid pipe to a fixing on the rear sub frame. Then a flexi pipe from the rear subframe to the rear trailing arm. And then another solid pipe from the rear trailing arm to the brake caliper.

The failure is probably on the trailing arm to caliper pipe, which is what addy's link is pointing to. It can be a real game getting the connecting nipples undone, so you could end up needing the flexi pipes too. The OEM Vauxhall pipes are steel covered in a sort of plasticy stuff, and once the plastic is breached the pipes rust, hence the failure. The pipes in addy's link look to be either copper or cupora-nickel so won't rust. The rest of the car however…..

[jacko]

I have just noticed on the emissions test sheet at the top
With car details they put the engine capacity down as 1750
Would that make a difference to the co2 fail or pass just seems
Odd they put that when it’s 2.2

[Nick W]

A couple of minutes earlier, that hole looked like some slightly flaky underseal. I tapped it out with the small chisel you can see, but without the hammer. The actual hole was about four times bigger, and really should have had the trans cooler pipes, radiator and other stuff to repair properly. The steering box mount was barely any better.


You need to thoroughly investigate this area on both sides before doing anything else. It's a car killer.

[Nick W]

I have just noticed on the emissions test sheet at the top
With car details they put the engine capacity down as 1750
Would that make a difference to the co2 fail or pass just seems
Odd they put that when it’s 2.2

It's a percentage of the exhaust gas. So the engine capacity is irrelevant.


Clean the Air Flow Meter and throttle body, fit new plugs and air filter, run some cat cleaner and give the car a good thrashing immediately before you put it in for a retest.

[jacko]

It’s just had new plugs air filter new mass air flow meter
Throttle body clean coil pack and cam sensor 

[dave the builder]

the CO is not that far off a pass anyway
the Subframe mounting prescribed area excessively corroded is what you need to look at first 

[jacko]

Just a question here will using e10 fuel lower the co2 for my mot
I currently have e5 in it when it failed

[Nick W]

Just a question here will using e10 fuel lower the co2 for my mot
I currently have e5 in it when it failed

No.


Put that handful of straws away

[GrahamK]

Hi Nick,
Could you please confirm the flare type and the fittings required the the trailing arm pipes listed earlier. I agree that £37 includes a fair dose of profit, but it's knowing which parts you need that is the tricky bit. Any recommendations on a suitable inexpensive flaring tool would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Graham.

[jacko]

Hello all, had a quote today 100 plus vat for welding
Seems reasonable 

[Nick W]

Hi Nick,
Could you please confirm the flare type and the fittings required the the trailing arm pipes listed earlier. I agree that £37 includes a fair dose of profit, but it's knowing which parts you need that is the tricky bit. Any recommendations on a suitable inexpensive flaring tool would also be appreciated.
Thanks,
Graham.

They're Metric male fittings. Utterly ubiquitous parts. M10x1 if you think it would help. They're about £0.20 each


Any brake pipe flaring tool will create the flare needed for them; it's the first flare you make. A female fitting will then need the another operation to form the internal flare.


One of THESE can produce a usable flare, if used with care, some practice and a blood sacrifice. Something like THIS is a better bet if you expect to make more than a couple of pipes, and can be bought cheaper than that. There are better, vice mounted ones available too, but are much more expensive

[Nick W]

Hello all, had a quote today 100 plus vat for welding
Seems reasonable 

Wow

[ronnyd]

Hello all, had a quote today 100 plus vat for welding
Seems reasonable 

Wow

Is that a good Wow or a bad Wow Nick? 

[GrahamK]

Thanks Nick, that's just what I was looking for.
To the OP, £120 for a welding quote sounds very reasonable.
Good luck!
Graham

[Nick W]

Hello all, had a quote today 100 plus vat for welding
Seems reasonable 

Wow

Is that a good Wow or a bad Wow Nick? 

It's an I don't believe it's that low Wow.


Combined with a They're probably going to tack a couple of plates over the hole, add half a tin of seam sealer and plenty of underseal and call it fixed Wow

[ronnyd]

Yeah, does seem a bit, errr, competitive? 

[Doctor Gollum]

Wasn't from the MoT garage by any chance...

If yes, then get the emissions and brake lines sorted and throw it in for another test somewhere else.

[dave the builder]

               



If it is the MOT station that quoted that quoted £100 +VAT for the welding then get it done by them ,and sort the brake lines and Cataclean for the emissions (plus warm the car up prior to test )

and get the MOT pass

getting it tested elsewhere will cost another £55

the tester will see the fails on the VTS device (computer) and may prod around and find even more issues 

with the MOT passed you can then look at the whole corrosion situation in more detail at your leisure 

[Doctor Gollum]

My point was that if it were actually bad enough to fail, then it would be significantly more expensive because they would know a proper fix would involve dropping the subframe 

[dave the builder]

Indeed £100 of welding will just be a plate hot snotted over the immediate problem 
but with only 2 weeks left of MOT it keeps the OP mobile if the Omega is a daily and not just a toy .

The car will need a proper detailed inspection  (which doesn't happen in the 45 min MOT) very soon , including what horrors are lurking under plastic trim, sill covers ,undereal etc  and the cost involved in sorting the issues.

being Londun based the OP may decide a milk float or public transport may be the long term solution
Omega ownership isn't for everyone now they are 19+ years old and a bit thirsty on GOGO juice 

[jacko]

Update, can of cataclean and a good run later
Now passes emissions with ease, however I am taking it to my local garage for them to do
A proper inspection of this area that meant to have corrosion, as yes is was the garage that failed it that quoted 100 for the welding, so I’m not convinced it even has a problem if you saw the car you would question it to, so if they don’t find corrosion it will be brake lines and re mot elsewhere 👍😊

[jacko]

Hi chaps update,

Is this the end,

Had an independent inspection and car has no rust, except
On the front chassis rails where the suspension and wish bones come together
Drivers side wasn’t an mot fail or advisory
But is on its way, now to be done properly how much will this cost any rough ideas
Any one on here into that depth of welding, and can the sub frame be lowered or is this an engine out job? 😢

[Doctor Gollum]

To your last question, both. Simply because you're getting into restoration territory.

The chassis leg is the lower 5" of what you can see. Anything above this is single skin inner wing... However both chassis legs have plumbing running along them and the passenger side also has a reasonable amount of wiring along it, so any work on the inner wing requires care.

My advice, as it has been confirmed as serviceable would be to thoroughly clean the area, rub it back, then with a decent primer, the a couple of top coats and finally once that's fully hardened, stone chip over the whole area. This can be done with the wheel arch liner and wheel removed, ideally the bumper as you can the access the whole chassis rail and the lower front cross member

There are areas that require particular attention, including the inside face of the chassis rails where the steering gear mounts and down beside the exhaust.

[Nick W]

Properly?


Engine and subframe out, remove all of the plumbing, wiring and other stuff in the way(ABS, battery etc). Then a lot of fiddly fabrication starts, because this area is made of a number of small, overlapping panels - it's not the capped U-shape that it first appears. And the same on the other side, no matter how good it looks. That is a lot of work, and is worth far more than the car.


Or, you can do some basic patching, like in my photos, to prolong the life of the car for a couple of years. If you're paying a garage to do this, you might spend less than another car.

[Nick W]

Also, there is no point in doing anything here until you've had a thorough and critical look at the rest of the car: remove the sill covers, check behind the bumpers and in the rear wheel arches, above the entire  rear subframe and anywhere the underseal or paint is damaged.


By look, I mean check with a blunt pokey tool like a knackered #2 screwdriver.

Include the exterior panels and paint - it's bound to have parking rash and other marks.

My estate didn't quite need the front chassis work, but it definitely needed rear wheelarches, both sills and other patches. Despite being able to do that work - I had actually bought a pair of sills - and the car being mechanically sorted, it was enough to end the car. I sold it for parts.