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[Viral_Jim]

I am doing my level best to try and get rid of the zafira, but the damn thing just won't be gotten rid of. It's latest ploy is a top end noise. The car is also as flat as a witches tit.

It started about two weeks ago, approximately one week and 250 miles after I did the timing belt, water pump and tensioners. It has started out life as a diesely thrum but has graduated rapidly to a nasty sounding rattle that definitely signals a significant issue.

When it was a thrum I was thinking hydraulic lifters, by with the nasty rattle I'm thinking it's one or both of the cam dephasers disintegrating. My theory is that the new tensioner and belt has better tension than the 14yr old 103k ones that came off and it's put more stress on the cams.

To answer the obvious, I checked the timing twice, then checked it again, but my first port of call is a strip down to look it over one more time.

Sny advice greatly appreciated as always!

[Raeturbo]

Plenty of oil in it?👣👣👣

[dave the builder]

what engine code ? Z16XEP and XE1 don't have sprung lifters that fill with oil ,they are more of a cup/shim
Common issue is the baffles in the intake manifold become un-glued ,this results in a NOCK sound (can sound terminal )
I've done this job ,wasn't convinced that the baffle being loose would make such a racket 
so I ordered the shimmed  lifters (set of 8 exhaust)
spent a few hours cleaning, re-sealing the intake
it was cured 
£100 worth of lifter shims came , and are having a "rest" in the parts hoard 

[dave the builder]

clicky 1

clicky 2  

[Viral_Jim]

Plenty of oil in it?👣👣👣

About 7/8 up to the full mark (first thing I checked when the diesel clatter started 

what engine code ? Z16XEP and XE1 don't have sprung lifters that fill with oil ,they are more of a cup/shim
Common issue is the baffles in the intake manifold become un-glued ,this results in a NOCK sound (can sound terminal )
I've done this job ,wasn't convinced that the baffle being loose would make such a racket 
so I ordered the shimmed  lifters (set of 8 exhaust)
spent a few hours cleaning, re-sealing the intake
it was cured 
£100 worth of lifter shims came , and are having a "rest" in the parts hoard 

Z16XER, hence my suspicion of the VVT inside the cam sprocket. I will start with the top timing cover and go from there, given the outrageous racket, I'd imagine there will be play somewhere even with the belt in place. Also, if it is that, removing the cover could make a noticeable difference to the noise.

That said, I will be sure to get my finger in the hole as you suggested, give it a waggle and see if anything's loose. 

I hadn't heard of the inlet manifold baffles before, so that's good news information, thanks 

[dave the builder]

     I will be sure to get my finger in the hole as you suggested, give it a waggle and see if anything's loose. 

I hadn't heard of the inlet manifold baffles before, so that's good news information, thanks 

I stuck my finger in the hole and wasn't convinced ,didn't feel loose at all
Only after I'd cleaned and re-glued the baffles and stuck it back together ,started the engine ,did i believe it would cure the rattle/knock   

I agree with taking the upper cambelt cover off to start with 

My vauxhalls are too OLD to have VVT 

[Doctor Gollum]

Have you cleaned/removed the screens from the VVT solenoids

There was a TIS thingy about them clogging as they're too fine.

[Viral_Jim]

Have you cleaned/removed the screens from the VVT solenoids

There was a TIS thingy about them clogging as they're too fine.

I did. When I first got the car (nearly 4yrs ago) it made an oil starvation type noise for a few seconds on startup. One of the things I did chasing that issue was to remove the VVT solenoid screens (they were pretty clean anyway but I thought why not).

Turned out that noise was due to a damaged oil drain valve in the filter housing allowing the oil to drain back to the sump when the car was sat a while. New valve cured this.

[Viral_Jim]

Had half an hour this morning so whizzed the top timing cover off. I am more sure now than I was that it's a cam dephaser but keen to get views on the video below.

https://imgur.com/gallery/86DblLW

The exhaust cam bolt isn't running true, you can see a wobble at the bolt head in the video and when I placed the tip of my knife against it you could hear it was only touching on part of its rotation. The inlet cam appears to be running true based on the above two tests. Interestingly, the noise is noticably worse when the engine is warm vs cold. Not sure why that would be (any ideas?)

Any ideas on anything else that could cause what's seen/heard on the video? I'm not thinking it's lifters, mainly because taking the oil filler cap off and listening there doesn't make the noise change.





PS. For completeness I checked the oil level (fine) and read the codes - only one present p0597-61 thermostat valve stuck. I fancied this was the case as the heater is slower than it should be to warm up. But I can't see any connection to the issue at hand 

[Doctor Gollum]

Not wishing to be a Debbie Downer, but sounds like it could be a result of a bodged belt change

Valve cover off and crank it remotely to confirm that cam is running true and go from there

[Viral_Jim]

Nothing is impossible, and I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm perfect.

But - I'm not sure why it would have run fine for 250miles before the issue developed (belt tension is still good) nor why it would get worse as the engine warms and better when it cools. Both of these things are explained by worn dephasers but arguably not if I'd bent the crank by botching the belt.

All that said, I am going to strip it down in prep for a pulley change and that involves taking the rocker cover off and locking the cams at the gearbox end. So, if I go to do that and it's not perfectly aligned with the crank at TDC, I will know I've screwed the pooch  .

[dave the builder]

You may have inadvertently "pre-loaded" the cam phasers when you did the belt change 
putting a strain  on them, resulting in their failure .
did you use ALL the kit 
the kit contains a flat bar (to lock cams ,rocker cover off)
2 "wedges" to hold/lock the cam sprockets 
a crank locking bracket

that said, parts fail on their own without any "help"
new-fangled VVT sprockets failing IS common

don't beat yourself up about it , unless you're in to that sort of thing 

[Doctor Gollum]

Bodged wasn't quite the right word, but it could be that something someone had previously done was exacerbated when you did it...

Reusing a bolt once might be reasonable, but if you reused it not know that it had already been reused a couple of times might be enough to get out of whack as an example

[Viral_Jim]

You may have inadvertently "pre-loaded" the cam phasers when you did the belt change 
putting a strain  on them, resulting in their failure .
did you use ALL the kit 
the kit contains a flat bar (to lock cams ,rocker cover off)
2 "wedges" to hold/lock the cam sprockets 
a crank locking bracket

that said, parts fail on their own without any "help"
new-fangled VVT sprockets failing IS common

don't beat yourself up about it , unless you're in to that sort of thing 

No worries, I've been hanging onto the end of a spanner long enough to know we all make mistakes. Pre-loading is a possibility, I didn't use the flat bar to lock the cams at the gearbox end as a) I didn't want to disturb the rocker cover gasket and (fairly rusty) bolts and b) the couple of online guides and the Haynes manual all pointed to it not being necessary unless you're going to remove the cam sprockets. I did use the little right angle bar thing with a hole in it to lock the flywheel using a gearbox mounting bolt and the 2 wedges to lock the cam sprockets. I would have thought that would have been sufficient. I also followed the installation 'order' for the belt as per Haynes.

Finally, the timing was also visually checked twice, each after 2 full rotations of the crank and was bang on (to my eye).

I'll get it stripped down on my breaks over the next few days and hopefully that will tell  me more.

[Viral_Jim]

Finally got her stripped down last night, but didn't want to draw any conclusions in the dark under a work light.

This morning revealed that the timing is still cock on, checked and set this time using the flat bar to lock the end of the cams and the metal pin to lock the ring gear. So, I'm now sure that the timing belt was done correctly.

The cam sprockets both have play. The inlet side exactly matches a YT video showing buggered cam dephasers. The exhaust one (where the noise mostly seemed to be coming from) was actually better, but was absolutely full of oil, whereas the inlet only had an egg cup full. Not sure if this is correct or indicates some internal breakdown in the exhaust cam. 

For the sake of it I'm going to strip them both down later when they've finished draining oil, mostly to see how they work.