Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

[Vamps]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

I was a 'difficult' mature student, bet you are a right bu**er Lizzie

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

I was a 'difficult' mature student, bet you are a right bu**er Lizzie

Oh yes Mike I certainly am; but the lecturers have told me that is exactly what they want from students, and it is usually only the mature ones who are bold enough to do it.  This year so far a few younger students are asking very pointed questions, which is great!

[Vamps]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

I was a 'difficult' mature student, bet you are a right bu**er Lizzie

Oh yes Mike I certainly am; but the lecturers have told me that is exactly what they want from students, and it is usually only the mature ones who are bold enough to do it.  This year so far a few younger students are asking very pointed questions, which is great!

I agree, I found the younger ones had limited 'life' experience and therefore too theoretical in their arguments, having no idea of the 'real world' and objectivity.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

I was a 'difficult' mature student, bet you are a right bu**er Lizzie

Oh yes Mike I certainly am; but the lecturers have told me that is exactly what they want from students, and it is usually only the mature ones who are bold enough to do it.  This year so far a few younger students are asking very pointed questions, which is great!

I agree, I found the younger ones had limited 'life' experience and therefore too theoretical in their arguments, having no idea of the 'real world' and objectivity.

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

[Vamps]

Sorry, Lizzie, but it is impossible to identify a few days in an ice-core sample. I think the programme was referring to the Greenland High Res Ice Core Project:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5889/680

"The last two abrupt warmings at the onset of our present warm interglacial period, interrupted by the Younger Dryas cooling event, were investigated at high temporal resolution from the North Greenland Ice Core Project ice core. The deuterium excess, a proxy of Greenland precipitation moisture source, switched mode within 1 to 3 years over these transitions and initiated a more gradual change (over 50 years) of the Greenland air temperature, as recorded by stable water isotopes. The onsets of both abrupt Greenland warmings were slightly preceded by decreasing Greenland dust deposition, reflecting the wetting of Asian deserts. A northern shift of the Intertropical Convergence Zone could be the trigger of these abrupt shifts of Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, resulting in changes of 2 to 4 kelvin in Greenland moisture source temperature from one year to the next."

They talk of 1-3 years. I know of no higher resolution than that. Also, remember that these are "proxies" - in other words using the deuterium to measure precipitation, to measure temperature.

As for being a spectator to the 'experts'. No way, at least not within the mainstream media, at any rate. There are many 'experts' out there that think we are being fed falsehoods by the other 'experts'. I regard as a duty to myself to seek out the truth as best I can.  

Cannot argue that Nick  Actually so do I in reality, usually everyday with my lecturers  

I was a 'difficult' mature student, bet you are a right bu**er Lizzie

Oh yes Mike I certainly am; but the lecturers have told me that is exactly what they want from students, and it is usually only the mature ones who are bold enough to do it.  This year so far a few younger students are asking very pointed questions, which is great!

I agree, I found the younger ones had limited 'life' experience and therefore too theoretical in their arguments, having no idea of the 'real world' and objectivity.

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

There are many in my profession, and I am not going to say what, feel there should be a minimum age of around 25, however it seems to have gone down from 21, no good in real life.

[Kevin Wood]

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

When I was an (immature) student I was too preoccupied with planning my next pint, er, amongst other things.

I've often wondered what it'd be like to return as a mature student.

Kevin

[Lizzie_Zoom]

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

When I was an (immature) student I was too preoccupied with planning my next pint, er, amongst other things.

I've often wondered what it'd be like to return as a mature student.

Kevin

Believe me Kevin it is great fun   as I do not suffer from the pressures of youth that I would have done at 19, and those I see being encountered by my fellow, younger, students.

I would highly recommend any 'mature' person going to Uni if it is going to assist your career!

[Vamps]

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

When I was an (immature) student I was too preoccupied with planning my next pint, er, amongst other things.

I've often wondered what it'd be like to return as a mature student.

Kevin

Believe me Kevin it is great fun   as I do not suffer from the pressures of youth that I would have done at 19, and those I see being encountered by my fellow, younger, students.

I would highly recommend any 'mature' person going to Uni if it is going to assist your career!

I would agree, and me, well I was 39 and single, as I always intended to be, in those days and moved back in with my Mum and Dad Sad yes but had lost my Job and house with it No financial worries and had a great time at Uni, a few of us were mature students and had a great relationship with the lecturers.  You are never too old to learn.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

.........or usually common sense and recognition of "grey" areas; just like I didn't before 25!!

When I was an (immature) student I was too preoccupied with planning my next pint, er, amongst other things.

I've often wondered what it'd be like to return as a mature student.

Kevin

Believe me Kevin it is great fun   as I do not suffer from the pressures of youth that I would have done at 19, and those I see being encountered by my fellow, younger, students.

I would highly recommend any 'mature' person going to Uni if it is going to assist your career!

I would agree, and me, well I was 39 and single, as I always intended to be, in those days and moved back in with my Mum and Dad Sad yes but had lost my Job and house with it No financial worries and had a great time at Uni, a few of us were mature students and had a great relationship with the lecturers.  You are never too old to learn.

Indeed Mike I am learning all the time and I hope to be at 90, if I live that long!!

[Dave-C]

There are many small business units in and around the country which have a pair of 16 cylinder (Ship engines) inside them, they are all heavily soundproofed and run on natural gas, these things are dotted around at intermediate points between main subs on the grid, they have one running at all times as a trickle into the grid, when the demand increases they can kick in the second generator to give some capacity.  They don't tell you about these computer controlled, extremely efficient things which have the "Perfect Burn" 17.5:1 air/gas...  They only seem to paint the grim picture, it's as though they're trying to send us back to the 70's.

Remind me,

Why did they close the pits? :-?

I'm off to buy some candles, queue for petrol and fight with my neighbour over a loaf of bread

DC

[Gaffers]

I think all this noise coming out of governments about carbon footprint, etc is complete tripe.

I would be intregued to find out how much of these 'Green taxes' have gone directly to Green issues or projects.  The eternal synic in me says not all of it if even a significant part.....

Why dont we do things that could actually make a difference, the glass recycling system here in Germany works fantastically.  You buy a plastic crate of beer full of glass bottle, you pay a deposit on it all (couple of euros) and then when done you bring it back and a machine reads it you get a coupon towards you next crate or even the money back.  We also have the Yellow bag system, standardised all over the country, where all the recyclables go.  It is unlimited so it normal rubbish with communial large bins in the road.  They never get full.  Also the packaging here is much less than in the UK.  Most of it is just about necessary.

If we want to be serious about the environment lets do things that actually work, not just pay extra taxes to fund MP pay rises

[Kevin Wood]

I think all this noise coming out of governments about carbon footprint, etc is complete tripe.

I would be intregued to find out how much of these 'Green taxes' have gone directly to Green issues or projects.  The eternal synic in me says not all of it if even a significant part.....

Indeed. they pay lip service to it when they want to raise taxes and use it as an excuse not to invest in the national infrastructure. Other than that, they couldnt care less.

Why dont we do things that could actually make a difference, the glass recycling system here in Germany works fantastically.  You buy a plastic crate of beer full of glass bottle, you pay a deposit on it all (couple of euros) and then when done you bring it back and a machine reads it you get a coupon towards you next crate or even the money back.  We also have the Yellow bag system, standardised all over the country, where all the recyclables go.  It is unlimited so it normal rubbish with communial large bins in the road.  They never get full.  Also the packaging here is much less than in the UK.  Most of it is just about necessary.

Just like the Corona bottles we used to collect as kids for the 5p deposit...

The problem is, people in the UK, government included, moan about the environment from one side of the fence or the other, but never actually DO anything. If people dumped unnecessary packaging at Sainsbury's before walking out of the door, or stopped buying drinks in plastic bottles, it'd stop pretty soon. Maybe that'll start happening if councils start chipping bins but unless there's a big stick hovering over them, most people un the UK are oblivious to the environment in their day to day lives, IMHO.

Kevin

[Martin_1962]

There are many small business units in and around the country which have a pair of 16 cylinder (Ship engines) inside them, they are all heavily soundproofed and run on natural gas, these things are dotted around at intermediate points between main subs on the grid, they have one running at all times as a trickle into the grid, when the demand increases they can kick in the second generator to give some capacity.  They don't tell you about these computer controlled, extremely efficient things which have the "Perfect Burn" 17.5:1 air/gas...  They only seem to paint the grim picture, it's as though they're trying to send us back to the 70's.

Remind me,

Why did they close the pits? :-?

I'm off to buy some candles, queue for petrol and fight with my neighbour over a loaf of bread

DC

What are the engines?

I know a few Valentas are used for this, and also I think a few of the EE/Ruston series engines of the type started as the 6T in the 1930s and last known as the RK280 before sell off from MAN.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

There are many small business units in and around the country which have a pair of 16 cylinder (Ship engines) inside them, they are all heavily soundproofed and run on natural gas, these things are dotted around at intermediate points between main subs on the grid, they have one running at all times as a trickle into the grid, when the demand increases they can kick in the second generator to give some capacity.  They don't tell you about these computer controlled, extremely efficient things which have the "Perfect Burn" 17.5:1 air/gas...  They only seem to paint the grim picture, it's as though they're trying to send us back to the 70's.

Remind me,

Why did they close the pits? :-?

I'm off to buy some candles, queue for petrol and fight with my neighbour over a loaf of bread

DC

At the time Dave it was because the railways had stopped using coal, the majority of houses has ceased to be heated by coal, and industry had greatly reduced its need for coal, especially in areas like steel production, with even power stations tending to opt for oil burning or, at that time the great "vision" of nuclear power.

In short the NCB (National Coal Board) was producing vast amounts of coal that nobody needed at vast expense to the taxpayer.  Many unprofitable pits were being run purely because of the subsidies from government.  

It had to come to an end, like the taxpayers huge subsidy of the railways, the steel and ship building, along with the car industry.  8-) 8-)

That is of course the political and cold commercial view!

Opposite to that is the massive social worth in terms of local communities and employment that not only the coal mines but the railways represented.  The latter in particular is a public service and should not be run purely on the basis of profit, although I believe that could be possible with better management as it once was. The coal mines should have not been so drastically  slaughtered as they were!  The closure of small unprofitable pits was necessary, but some larger ones should have beenkept open, as there was, and still is, a demand for good quality coal in industry (and the steam railway preservation movement who require good quality Yorkshire steam coal!!   )  

However Great Britain now imports far too much to meet our needs.  Now they are even going to build a new coal powered power station at Northfleet!

Oh well we cannot quickly reverse time, but this is what makes History and Politics so interesting!