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[Nickbat]

I dont need any lectures on Marx believe me,I have red more on him than most,but eventually grew up and realised that ,basically he talked a load of old 'dangle berries'.
If Marxism doesnt create societies where everyone (apart from the elite of course) is pretty much equally poor, then what happened in Cuba, the old Soviet Union,and Mao,s China,not to mention all those little tin pot Marxist dictatorships scattered all over Africa ?
CAPITALISM RULES OK.

As I stated Albs, which surely you already know, human nature is the problem, and those countries you mention never had a true Marxist state, but a corrupted Communism ruled by dictators .

..and your solution to that "problem" would be? 

[Nickbat]

Andrew Neill (I'm getting to like him!  ) completely trounces the super-paid dullard head of the Met Office. A must-see from the "Daily Politics" show. 

http://www.australianclimatemadness.com/?p=2746

[albitz]

If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo.

[Banjax]

If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo.

is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.

hey i didn't go off topic first 


just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves,  airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more 

[STMO999]

If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo.

is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.

hey i didn't go off topic first 


just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves,  airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more 

Sell your subaru.

[cem_devecioglu]

If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo.

is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again) i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?
unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.

hey i didn't go off topic first 


just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves,  airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more 

Sell your subaru.

 

do I have to sell my miggy..


seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..

so dont let me started how they do it..

you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis

[cem_devecioglu]

From Albs..

"If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was."

doesnt prove anything about Marx..

"So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time."

what makes me really surprised is that the workers also talk with the words of boss..

dont understand why such a civilised and cultured people are desperate for future :-/


"Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo"

thats a psychological war lie from CIA.. and dont expect everyone to believe it..


the "human nature" what you are talking about make the medicines that cure you, find the electricity and bring technology.. 

There may be many that sell their souls for a little, but they cant stop the good one.. History proved that..

[Dishevelled Den]

 

do I have to sell my miggy..


seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..

so dont let me started how they do it..

you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis

seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..


Hi cem 8-)

Western interests - being far from perfect and caring - without doubt exploited those in less well developed nations.


..............so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so.

The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma.  They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade.

Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining.

[STMO999]

Master and servant....basic human nature.

[cem_devecioglu]

 

do I have to sell my miggy..


seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..

so dont let me started how they do it..

you think those armies are there for freedom of Iraqis

seriously western capitalism and the comfort level they achieved relies upon the exploitation of
African,American(south and north) and East (middle and asia) people's work for many centuries and still ..


Hi cem 8-)

Western interests - being far from perfect and caring - without doubt exploited those in less well developed nations.


..............so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so.

The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma.  They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade.

Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining.

Hi Zulu

being not that fast in your language , need some time to answer, so I'll reply as soon as possible

[cem_devecioglu]

Master and servant....basic human nature.

we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..

[STMO999]

Master and servant....basic human nature.

we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..[/quote]

Ha! Not while humans have got a hole in their arse

[cem_devecioglu]

Master and servant....basic human nature.

we dont need Greedy masters, we need honest ,clever managers which are not policitians that dont need to lie .. one day will become real..[/quote]

Ha! Not while humans have got a hole in their arse

 

[Dishevelled Den]

If human nature is the problem then this simply proves how naive Marx was.So all those years he spent thinking about his great solution to the exploitation of the prolateriate and writng his lengthy works were a complete waste of time.
Marxism/communism/socialism, removes incentive and individuality from people which is why it could not and should not ever succeed imo.

is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)? anyway, just to clear up a few issues (again)unless you believe in invisible super beings, of course, where it's OK to go right ahead living your life according to someones interpretation of a work of fiction.

hey i didn't go off topic first 


just as an aside - all the climate change "sceptics", yes it's cold at the moment so theres the obvious "what warming" angle, but what about when it's warm and damp all winter....how come we don't hear a peep - bs works both ways - luckily scientists do this stuff for a living so we don't have to guess.
what other bodies of knowledge are we sceptical of? electricity? biology?
what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves,  airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more 

Hello bj 8-)

is that up until or after the capilist system is bailed out by every taxpayer(holy socialism Batman!)?


We'll be hearing that one for some time no doubt.

Far from the altruistic act generally touted as being the motivator behind this perhaps the rather more pedestrian reason for various nations having a collective bout of ass covering in a - quite possibly - vain attempt to shore up their economies so exposed by globalisation, is the more reasonable to consider.

The taxpayers in question of course were, for the most part, dyed in the wool capitalists, living within that system and prospering - even in a modest way  - from it - so they should be more than pleased to support it.

   i'm not a communist, a socialist on some issues i'll grant you but surely only a fool slavishly follows one ideology to the exclusion of all else?

That’s one of the reasons I continue to rate you contributions.

what has science ever done for us apart from the discovery and use of glass, rubber,gunpowder, vaccination, electric motors, steam engines, internal combustion engines, photography, light bulbs, refrigeration, anesthetic, pasteurization, metal detectors, dynamite, microphones, telephones, the ball point pen, x-rays, microwaves,  airships, aeroplanes, helicopters, cars, tanks, washing machines, nuclear reactors, vulcanized rubber, antibiotics, television, radar, radio, lasers, pocket calculators, optical fibre, fibreglass, kevlar, stainless steel, plastics, oil refining, the cd, the dvd, records, the computer, the mobile phone, the hovercraft, the jet engine..........i'm sure theres a couple more


...of course the labours of all the scientists and engineers involved in making the world a better place in the ways you describe were and are working in an environment where the fruits of their labour are readily quantifiable.

The main issue with those scientists presently pushing the AGW theory is that the end result of their investigations can't be so quantified, and in this case theory seems to have become the main driver and sustainer for their continued efforts to find sound equation to make that theory work.

This is a volatile division of science where, depending on the source of funding and the ethics of those involved, the results of such research are being seized upon by those who seem determined to change the world at all costs.

Science had prostituted itself on the street corner of funding, celebrity, greed and misplaced, naive idealism.

On the practical front it's laughable when one listens to the serious proposals being made by various bodies who are suggesting that the global temperature can be limited to a certain figure (2 degrees) seems the most popular at the moment, when the global weather can’t be controlled to lessen the effect of a modest snowfall experienced in this country over the recent past.

[cem_devecioglu]

from Zulu

"so of course did the governments of those very nations in question where the tribal, caste or system of local convention was very adept in ensuring that those in power remained so."

those governments start to loose one by one.. look in south America.. even the mighty CIA cant stop..

and they started the job first by kicking the arse of IMF



"The 'communist' nations can’t claim the moral high ground either, despite the lofty ideals of their dogma.  They were not only well practised in exploiting third world nations but also their own people where the ruling elite enjoyed a level of comfort far removed from that experienced by the ordinary comrade."

I see the point, those systems being far from ideal examples and started the life under the pressure of western capitalism (dont neglect that point, very important) but cleaning capitalism roots from the elite even in those systems not that easy.. :-/


"Ask around in the die-hard nations still trying to fly the tarnished banner of communism - Cuba, North Korea to name but many - to see if those removed from the party elite really consider the communist ideal to be worth retaining."

Cuba , imho is really a better socialist example staying alive behind the arse of USA as a sharp needle 
 
they live under a very heavy embargo , defetaed many problems with US and  and succeeded to solve many of their problems starting with health..


in addition to the things I mentioned above , I wanted to give an example for the desperate ,

a hundred years ago, a day for the worker was 16 hours and now is 8.. who achieved  this ? 

and they let only children to work in their factories..

things change,  if some lazy arses wake up and fight..
 
ps: lunch break ! , need to take one friend for a distant place , see you..