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[Dishevelled Den]

The question is, are these foot operated brakes (remembering that this is not an American car) now truely mechanicaly connected to the brakes or does it go via some logic function that thinks....thats much to fast and I am not applying the brake pedal.

If so, then there could be a failure in the system design.

Of course, the brakes may have been so hot through trying to stop it that they were no longer working.

Why could they not put it into neutral....no idea on that one.

As far as I can see it is mechanically connected to the front braking system, the car will drive still off with the parking brake applied however - as I have found out.

[Shackeng]

On the Prius there is a transmission brake - electrically operated via a button on the facia, engaging this at rest automatically places the transmission into neutral, there is also a mechanically operated foot parking brake. 

There is no ignition switch - simply a slot where the transponder is inserted.  The systems are energised by means of a start/stop button.

The transponder is locked into position whenever the car is in motion – whether this lock is sufficient to prevent forcible extraction when in motion, and what effect that would have on the vehicle I don’t know, as I wasn’t brave enough to try on my trip to the shops just now.

The transmission can be shifted into neutral when the car is in motion.

The braking, steering, transmission and throttle systems are all electronically controlled or assisted so if there is an electrical fault, I could foresee problems in bringing the car to a safe stop.

That's why I am puzzled, in my experience American marketed cars invariably have a foot operated parking brake, and facility to shift into neutral. No doubt the authorities over there are also scratching their heads over this one.

It's a strange one no doubt.

I'm not sure if the parking brake would be person** enough to bring the car to a halt from speed all the same.

I would have thought however that the main braking system on the car would have functioned albeit without assistance - perhaps in this case the driver didn't have the time or space to manoeuvre his vehicle away from danger.

Possibly it was a simply a case of panic in rapidly unfolding circumstances.

In any case it's a most unfortunate occurrence for the occupants of the vehicle and their family’s.


**
In deference to our beloved Sister in Christ, Harriet Harman -
MP for Camberwell and Peckham, Deputy Leader of the Labour Party
Leader of the House of Commons, and Minister for Women and Equality - and her proposed Equalities Bill.

Yet a passenger had time to call 911 :-?
A definite puzzler.

[Kevin Wood]

I'm not sure if the parking brake would be person** enough to bring the car to a halt from speed all the same.

It's an interesting experiment to try. In my experience of finding interesting ways to bed brake pads in what one would probably regard as quite heavy braking will limit a powerful car at a constant speed in the higher gears.

When it comes to actually stopping it in a useful distance from the worst case scenario where it's accelerated to 80/90 MPH before you realise something's not right. Hmm. :-/ What's clear to me is:

1) You would have to stand on the pedal

2) You would build up a lot more heat in the brakes than during a normal emergency stop, so you would probably get one shot at it before the brakes faded. If you braked half-heartedly, lifted off and let it accelerate again or anything like that, you'd probably find the brakes too hot to give you a second chance.

3) What happens as you slow and the gearbox, if auto, starts changing down? It would probably overcome the brakes in a low gear, especially if they're hot.

A mate of mine had a Pug 406 diesel which started burning its' own engine oil due to turbo seal failure on the motorway and he said he very nearly left himself with no brakes trying to stop it before he dipped the clutch and let it rev itself to oblivion.

All immaterial if you take the gearbox out of gear, of course. Makes me wonder if gear selection was also electronic and nanny ECU thought "ooh! you don't want to take it out of "D" at this speed!".

I suspect it was more the case that the driver, who would clearly have been at 110% stress level, probably didn't go through a methodical process of trying the ignition, realising the stupid transponder and "Start/Stop" button was no help, then shifting focus to getting the transmission into neutral, then on braking it to a stop, and so on. He probably spent his last seconds hitting the button to no effect. Lack of familiarity with the vehicle may have been an issue, of course.

Makes one wonder if it wouldn't be better to have standard, mechanical controls for the ignition switch and gear selector on all cars. :-/

In addition, if the car had left him several routes to shut it down (ignition switch, clutch, gear selector, etc.) maybe he'd have hit upon one of them in time.

Kevin

[Chris_H]

Another report on t'internet says that a previous user of the same loan car had a similar problem where he stopped it on the brakes.  He reckoned he managed to prize the throttle pedal back up and so saved the day.  He also reported it to the receptionist who wasn't very amenable by his account.

Investigating plod said brakes were damaged (presumably before impact) on the crashed car.

[Dishevelled Den]

I'm not sure if the parking brake would be person** enough to bring the car to a halt from speed all the same.

It's an interesting experiment to try. In my experience of finding interesting ways to bed brake pads in what one would probably regard as quite heavy braking will limit a powerful car at a constant speed in the higher gears.

When it comes to actually stopping it in a useful distance from the worst case scenario where it's accelerated to 80/90 MPH before you realise something's not right. Hmm. :-/ What's clear to me is:

1) You would have to stand on the pedal

2) You would build up a lot more heat in the brakes than during a normal emergency stop, so you would probably get one shot at it before the brakes faded. If you braked half-heartedly, lifted off and let it accelerate again or anything like that, you'd probably find the brakes too hot to give you a second chance.

3) What happens as you slow and the gearbox, if auto, starts changing down? It would probably overcome the brakes in a low gear, especially if they're hot.

A mate of mine had a Pug 406 diesel which started burning its' own engine oil due to turbo seal failure on the motorway and he said he very nearly left himself with no brakes trying to stop it before he dipped the clutch and let it rev itself to oblivion.

All immaterial if you take the gearbox out of gear, of course. Makes me wonder if gear selection was also electronic and nanny ECU thought "ooh! you don't want to take it out of "D" at this speed!".

I suspect it was more the case that the driver, who would clearly have been at 110% stress level, probably didn't go through a methodical process of trying the ignition, realising the stupid transponder and "Start/Stop" button was no help, then shifting focus to getting the transmission into neutral, then on braking it to a stop, and so on. He probably spent his last seconds hitting the button to no effect. Lack of familiarity with the vehicle may have been an issue, of course.

Makes one wonder if it wouldn't be better to have standard, mechanical controls for the ignition switch and gear selector on all cars. :-/

In addition, if the car had left him several routes to shut it down (ignition switch, clutch, gear selector, etc.) maybe he'd have hit upon one of them in time.

Kevin

I think that's a fair stab at the series of events K.  Electronic technology is fine up to a point as this incident has shown.

The transmission is electonically controlled CVT so how that would respond to being put into neutral at speed is anyone's guess.

[Shackeng]

I'm not sure if the parking brake would be person** enough to bring the car to a halt from speed all the same.

It's an interesting experiment to try. In my experience of finding interesting ways to bed brake pads in what one would probably regard as quite heavy braking will limit a powerful car at a constant speed in the higher gears.

When it comes to actually stopping it in a useful distance from the worst case scenario where it's accelerated to 80/90 MPH before you realise something's not right. Hmm. :-/ What's clear to me is:

1) You would have to stand on the pedal

2) You would build up a lot more heat in the brakes than during a normal emergency stop, so you would probably get one shot at it before the brakes faded. If you braked half-heartedly, lifted off and let it accelerate again or anything like that, you'd probably find the brakes too hot to give you a second chance.

3) What happens as you slow and the gearbox, if auto, starts changing down? It would probably overcome the brakes in a low gear, especially if they're hot.

A mate of mine had a Pug 406 diesel which started burning its' own engine oil due to turbo seal failure on the motorway and he said he very nearly left himself with no brakes trying to stop it before he dipped the clutch and let it rev itself to oblivion.

All immaterial if you take the gearbox out of gear, of course. Makes me wonder if gear selection was also electronic and nanny ECU thought "ooh! you don't want to take it out of "D" at this speed!".

I suspect it was more the case that the driver, who would clearly have been at 110% stress level, probably didn't go through a methodical process of trying the ignition, realising the stupid transponder and "Start/Stop" button was no help, then shifting focus to getting the transmission into neutral, then on braking it to a stop, and so on. He probably spent his last seconds hitting the button to no effect. Lack of familiarity with the vehicle may have been an issue, of course.

Makes one wonder if it wouldn't be better to have standard, mechanical controls for the ignition switch and gear selector on all cars. :-/

In addition, if the car had left him several routes to shut it down (ignition switch, clutch, gear selector, etc.) maybe he'd have hit upon one of them in time.

Kevin

I think that's a fair stab at the series of events K.  Electronic technology is fine up to a point as this incident has shown.

The transmission is electonically controlled CVT so how that would respond to being put into neutral at speed is anyone's guess.

I'll try it at low speed on SWWLTBO's Honda Jazz.

[Andy B]

Our fly-by-wire cars effectively shut the throttle off if you brake while pressing the accelerator, at least my diseasal Astra TD does as did her 1600 Astra G   :-/

[Marks DTM Calib]

I'll try it at low speed on SWWLTBO's Honda Jazz.

And if it does....then try it with your foot planted to the floor on the throttle.

I can just imagine a subroutine which says If Throttle is not equal to WOT gearselect = neutral Else gearselect = Drive

[Entwood]

The car was reportedly loaned from Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon on Friday after Saylor dropped his car off for service

Sounds like the driver was a "stranger" to the various controls ...

It's all very well thinking about various "emergency" procedures .. but if you don't know EXACTLY how the car works .. do you have any options

[Shackeng]

I'll try it at low speed on SWWLTBO's Honda Jazz.

And if it does....then try it with your foot planted to the floor on the throttle.

I can just imagine a subroutine which says If Throttle is not equal to WOT gearselect = neutral Else gearselect = Drive

Not sure I want to go that far, although I could try it as immediate consecutive actions!