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[TheBoy]

Anyone know which chip the coding info is stored on on NCDx series radios .  Its definately on the front board.

Answers via PM please.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Not found it on mine yet....the one on the rear board seems to have little more than radio staion info in it

[TheBoy]

Not found it on mine yet....the one on the rear board seems to have little more than radio staion info in it

Defo front board - swapping the board on my NCDR1100 (unknown code) with the one from Tunnie's old NCDC2013 (depaired), makes my NCDR1100 depaired.

I'm guessing one of those AMD 29 series chips on the underside of board...

[Dave DND]

several versions,

24C64

24LC16

or sometimes the chip is emulated as the above within a main processor D78P0585C

 

[TheBoy]

several versions,

24C64

24LC16

or sometimes the chip is emulated as the above within a main processor D78P0585C

 

Couldn't see any of them.  Main processor is SH3.

I'll try and get some hires photos.

I have, for now, taken the board from the ncdc2013 (with failed cd and cdc unit) into the ncdr1100 (which I don't have code for), but means I haven't a spare depaired board to send you at moment  

[TheBoy]

Hi Res photos of board, though not brilliantly clear. Plus I'd half reassembled it before I remembered I needed pictures!

http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/ncdr1500_install/odds/IMG_3248.JPG

http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/ncdr1500_install/odds/IMG_3249.JPG

[Dave DND]

email sent -

The code is emulated as a 24C16 within the flash memory

I`ve marked the two chips for you.

Good Luck !  

[TheBoy]

email sent -

The code is emulated as a 24C16 within the flash memory

I`ve marked the two chips for you.

Good Luck !  

Email recv'd

All I can say is....   ....bugger!

[Kevin Wood]

email sent -

The code is emulated as a 24C16 within the flash memory

I`ve marked the two chips for you.

Good Luck !  

Email recv'd

All I can say is....   ....bugger!

That'll be one of the chips with umpteen pins a gnat's whisker apart then?

Kevin

[Marks DTM Calib]

40 pin flash device....I suspect it actually the single device on its own rather than the twin 16bit setup.

Not to hard to remove, read and re-solder.....I have done FAR worse!

[Dave DND]

40 pin flash device....I suspect it actually the single device on its own rather than the twin 16bit setup.

Not to hard to remove, read and re-solder.....I have done FAR worse!

No, its not the single one.  Very common configuration on car audio these days to run two of these together.

Removing the chip is not that bad, but reading the data can be problematic due to the encyrptions they have. As I said earlier, there is a section of memory that emulates a 24C16 and this is not easy to decifer, as reading as an ordinary flash chip gives very different results !!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Very surprised at that.

I guess the single one is acting as boot and little else (few processors can boot of dual chip configs).

The answer then is an ICE or BDM

[Dave DND]

Very surprised at that.

I guess the single one is acting as boot and little else (few processors can boot of dual chip configs).

The answer then is an ICE or BDM

No, they don`t boot as a dual configuration. If you read the emulated section, there is actually very little data in either of them - I think this is nothing more than an exercise is annoying the decoding fraternity!

Be aware that simply reading and attempting cloning of the flash chip itself may not be enough to actually clone the chip. Not much experience of this particular Vx model, but for instance, similar setup used in Alfa Romeo & Porsche units and you have to boot the flash device before you can read the entire code data area. Once you have booted the chip you will be staggered at the readings and how they differ from that taken by simply "reading" the flash memory.

If you manage to crack that one, then come and see me, as there will be a desk and a job here waiting for you !!  

[Marks DTM Calib]

I am not surprsied about the prom reading method, if the chips are setup as I suspect they are then they will be wired as two 8 bit devices in parralel to support the 16 bit micro bus being used.

Hence with a prom programmer you will see only either the upper or lower byte word....where as a BDM would allow you to see what the micro see's.

Its been a few years since I did micro circuit design and coded boot software etc so I would be a bit rusty but, sure its no an impossible task to single step through and find the point where the code transmission occure and which section of memory its then sourced from.

I ahve to say that I am not to surprised that the codes are now in Flash although I am a little concerned given how poor flash is at reliable meory retention (although NOR is more reliable than NAND and NOR is the only true bus compatible stuff and hence why its used for boot up with NAND being more akkin to an IDE type interface with blcok access)

[TheBoy]

I am not surprsied about the prom reading method, if the chips are setup as I suspect they are then they will be wired as two 8 bit devices in parralel to support the 16 bit micro bus being used.

Hence with a prom programmer you will see only either the upper or lower byte word....where as a BDM would allow you to see what the micro see's.

Its been a few years since I did micro circuit design and coded boot software etc so I would be a bit rusty but, sure its no an impossible task to single step through and find the point where the code transmission occure and which section of memory its then sourced from.

I ahve to say that I am not to surprised that the codes are now in Flash although I am a little concerned given how poor flash is at reliable meory retention (although NOR is more reliable than NAND and NOR is the only true bus compatible stuff and hence why its used for boot up with NAND being more akkin to an IDE type interface with blcok access)

I guess they hope it will last the warranty life of car (3yrs)?