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[STEMO]

Dear me 😂

BMW introduces new heated seat subscription in UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62142208

[VXL V6]

This is why coding apps like Bimmercode and Carly are so popular for coding in options.

What makes the linked article interesting though is that a lot of the options must already be on the car at manufacture - ie heating pads in seats and steering wheel but coded out in the ECU.... That would have been like buying an Omega GLS but actually it's an Elite with bits turned off 

The thing with over the air updates is how long before we see car manufacturers acting like Microsoft (Lets make Windows XP slower with the final service pack to encourage Windows 7 uptake) or Apple (Lets slow older devices down and tell everyone it's to preserve battery life). .........Hello Sir, we've decided that your car is now five years old so we've limited it to 50Mph and it will only start and drive between 9am and 6pm. 

[STEMO]

This is why coding apps like Bimmercode and Carly are so popular for coding in options.

What makes the linked article interesting though is that a lot of the options must already be on the car at manufacture - ie heating pads in seats and steering wheel but coded out in the ECU.... That would have been like buying an Omega GLS but actually it's an Elite with bits turned off 

The thing with over the air updates is how long before we see car manufacturers acting like Microsoft (Lets make Windows XP slower with the final service pack to encourage Windows 7 uptake) or Apple (Lets slow older devices down and tell everyone it's to preserve battery life). .........Hello Sir, we've decided that your car is now five years old so we've limited it to 50Mph and it will only start and drive between 9am and 6pm. 

The possibilities are endless. No more police chases in a beemer, or any other make for that matter. The rozzers just ring up and get the car switched off. Many, many more applications.

[VXL V6]

This is why coding apps like Bimmercode and Carly are so popular for coding in options.

What makes the linked article interesting though is that a lot of the options must already be on the car at manufacture - ie heating pads in seats and steering wheel but coded out in the ECU.... That would have been like buying an Omega GLS but actually it's an Elite with bits turned off 

The thing with over the air updates is how long before we see car manufacturers acting like Microsoft (Lets make Windows XP slower with the final service pack to encourage Windows 7 uptake) or Apple (Lets slow older devices down and tell everyone it's to preserve battery life). .........Hello Sir, we've decided that your car is now five years old so we've limited it to 50Mph and it will only start and drive between 9am and 6pm. 

The possibilities are endless. No more police chases in a beemer, or any other make for that matter. The rozzers just ring up and get the car switched off. Many, many more applications.

More likely they let you do all the crimes and just bill you directly 

[GastronomicKleptomaniac]

This is why coding apps like Bimmercode and Carly are so popular for coding in options.

What makes the linked article interesting though is that a lot of the options must already be on the car at manufacture - ie heating pads in seats and steering wheel but coded out in the ECU.... That would have been like buying an Omega GLS but actually it's an Elite with bits turned off 

The thing with over the air updates is how long before we see car manufacturers acting like Microsoft (Lets make Windows XP slower with the final service pack to encourage Windows 7 uptake) or Apple (Lets slow older devices down and tell everyone it's to preserve battery life). .........Hello Sir, we've decided that your car is now five years old so we've limited it to 50Mph and it will only start and drive between 9am and 6pm. 

The possibilities are endless. No more police chases in a beemer, or any other make for that matter. The rozzers just ring up and get the car switched off. Many, many more applications.

Switched off? Nay! Think of the fuel savings if I got it to deliver them outside the nick in a locked car.

I would suggest that therwas an option to turn the heating up to 11 as well, but PSD would not appreciate it...

[Marks DTM Calib]

Sadly we can't turn them off remotely (its already feasible) even on Police request (legislation).

In fact the country I have ever seen where we were allowed to remote disable startrup was in the Netherlands

[Andy H]

Sadly we can't turn them off remotely (its already feasible) even on Police request (legislation).

In fact the country I have ever seen where we were allowed to remote disable startrup was in the Netherlands

Doesn't happen often - an OOF post that has gone round in a circle and returned to the original topic 

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well, I have a lovely Omega that no one can control remotly, and I have all round electricly heated seats without any subscription!!

Viva la Omega

[VXL V6]

Well, I have a lovely Omega that no one can control remotly, and I have all round electricly heated seats without any subscription!!

Viva la Omega

Nah, Omega's do that for themselves - every 40K when the Crank Sensor fails (Assuming you don't re-route the cable) they will stop dead without fail!

[TheBoy]

As far as I know, and certainly in my ownership, the chav never had a crank sensor fail.  Obviously, there was (and probably still is ) a brand new one between the rear seats and the LPG tank, and a E8 socket and wrench

The old Silver Bullet, that had 2 fail, once just outside Dijon and once at the NEC...   ...fortunately for the later, that one also had a spare in the boot, and a socket

[Lizzie Zoom]

Well, I have a lovely Omega that no one can control remotly, and I have all round electricly heated seats without any subscription!!

Viva la Omega

Nah, Omega's do that for themselves - every 40K when the Crank Sensor fails (Assuming you don't re-route the cable) they will stop dead without fail!

Only had one fail, and I did re-route the cable of the new one following the sound advice given on here

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

Mine failed on my current Omega at around 175000 miles, not long after I bought it. It was the original, so did exceptionally well.

[VXL V6]

I think I only had two fail over the five v6's I had (well still got two but...), also had one fail on a 2.2DTi but on that engine it's still driveable..... just.

[iansoutham]

The reason is in part down to cost saving.

Build the car with all options and activate what the customers asks for.

If the customer wants it later, they can test it and then buy it if they want it. By the same token, a lease company will take the car at least specification and if the customer wants to add something, it is at their expense. They can then turn it off later when returning it to lease.

Also, next owner may not want heated everything, but may want Android Auto and ACC (auto cruise control) as they do lots of travelling, turn the option on instead of looking for this one specific car.

Replacement parts, 1x control unit instead of 4x different ones. The list is endless.

We were told about this a while ago at my dealership. Some of the newest 2022-built cars have this already. Sales Manager X6 has the buttons for ACC but not activated. He drives round town for tots if 8 miles per day, does not need it, but next owner can have it so makes the car more saleable.

[Viral_Jim]

I also think a big part of it is keeping the list price 'down'. When you have fairly middling 3 series going over £40k and a hot one can go North of £60k without even getting an M badge, they've probably realised there's a limit to what people will pay and they're pushing up at it. By splitting off the options, you can split the bill in two and make the total larger.

It's like a few years ago when various companies tried bundling the usual phone, TV and broadband package together with mobile phone service on one bill. Back then it didn't prove as popular as they thought it would because no one wanted to see a single bill for well over £100pcm.

Also, as said it allows them to make the same money over and over again. A £1000 option on a new car isn't worth £1000 on the second hand market (particularly if it's not popular), but £10pcm will always be just that (and no doubt index linked too so it keeps going up over time). I also wouldn't be surprised if there are limitations on downgrading options down the line to keep the money flowing.

In summary, cheaper for the manufacturer, more costly for the consumer 

[Doctor Gollum]

I also think a big part of it is keeping the list price 'down'. When you have fairly middling 3 series going over £40k and a hot one can go North of £60k without even getting an M badge, they've probably realised there's a limit to what people will pay and they're pushing up at it. By splitting off the options, you can split the bill in two and make the total larger.

It's like a few years ago when various companies tried bundling the usual phone, TV and broadband package together with mobile phone service on one bill. Back then it didn't prove as popular as they thought it would because no one wanted to see a single bill for well over £100pcm.

Also, as said it allows them to make the same money over and over again. A £1000 option on a new car isn't worth £1000 on the second hand market (particularly if it's not popular), but £10pcm will always be just that (and no doubt index linked too so it keeps going up over time). I also wouldn't be surprised if there are limitations on downgrading options down the line to keep the money flowing.

In summary, cheaper for the manufacturer, more costly for the consumer 

Smoke and mirrors.

And it is all about separating you from your money. Whilst screwing you over in the process.

Before you know it, you can double your car payment and keep renting the options long after the car is paid for.

Before you know it we will be back to renting kettles and toasters

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its more based around getting income for the life of the car and with each differing user.

[Nick W]

Its more based around getting income for the life of the car and with each differing user.

Isn't that still separating you from your money?

[Marks DTM Calib]

Its more based around getting income for the life of the car and with each differing user.

Isn't that still separating you from your money?

Oh yes, totally, the approach I have seen is very simialr to today so you can buy the option outright for the vehicle life at day one, or add/lease it later to give flexibility through the whole vehicle life

Another driver is automated driving, where the on cost is many many thousands extra, Tesla already do this.....not that I will have that issue as I quite enjoy being the seat wheel interface

[johnnydog]

In the past, having bought a lot of ex lease cars, I found that many had 'sensible' and 'useable' options fitted above standard spec. The fleet / business sales staff at dealerships no doubt were able to offer certain options to fleet / business buyers in an attempt to gain their business and sell a number of vehicles. Volume sales in many respects were possibly equally as important as the amount of profit, especially considering dealership bonuses from manufacturers for monthly / quarterly targets etc.

[Doctor Gollum]

Its more based around getting income for the life of the car and with each differing user.

Isn't that still separating you from your money?

Oh yes, totally, the approach I have seen is very simialr to today so you can buy the option outright for the vehicle life at day one, or add/lease it later to give flexibility throguh the whole vehicle life

Definitely marketing wank presented to sound like it's doing the consumer a favour...

[Nick W]

Its more based around getting income for the life of the car and with each differing user.

Isn't that still separating you from your money?

Oh yes, totally, the approach I have seen is very simialr to today so you can buy the option outright for the vehicle life at day one, or add/lease it later to give flexibility throguh the whole vehicle life

Definitely marketing wank presented to sound like it's doing the consumer a favour...

Which has been BMW's strategy for decades. They've managed to maintain their status in the automotive industry by successfully adopting the latest marketing wank as soon as an appropriate cellulose based wiping matrix has become available to clean up after themselves.

[VXL V6]

In fairness to BMW (and no doubt others will do the same in time), it's definitely an idea that's got legs, so many second / third etc owners spend money on used cars then immediately start upgrading with parts on from higher spec models.

I'm guessing the key to this is the use of connected drive, so the car needs a data connection and a subscription before any manufacturer 'over the air' coding can take place.

[Doctor Gollum]

In fairness to BMW (and no doubt others will do the same in time), it's definitely an idea that's got legs, so many second / third etc owners spend money on used cars then immediately start upgrading with parts on from higher spec models.

I'm guessing the key to this is the use of connected drive, so the car needs a data connection and a subscription before any manufacturer 'over the air' coding can take place.

Yeah, but a nicer interior or better seats etc is a one off modest purchase and some time not a monthly subscription. And who gets to pay for the repair when a heated seat stop working. Right to repair is going to become much more of an issue to, because it will all become dealer only for everything.

A call centre in India telling you that they've reactivated your navigation unit when it clearly doesn't work isn't going to cut it. And you don't have to look too far for Tesla owners unsuccessfully trying to get refunds for subscriptions to things when the car spends three months at a dealer awaiting a warranty repair. On this point the practice actually seems to be sit on the car until the warranty runs out, then return the car saying that it is no longer under warranty...

[VXL V6]

In fairness to BMW (and no doubt others will do the same in time), it's definitely an idea that's got legs, so many second / third etc owners spend money on used cars then immediately start upgrading with parts on from higher spec models.

I'm guessing the key to this is the use of connected drive, so the car needs a data connection and a subscription before any manufacturer 'over the air' coding can take place.

Yeah, but a nicer interior or better seats etc is a one off modest purchase and some time not a monthly subscription. And who gets to pay for the repair when a heated seat stop working. Right to repair is going to become much more of an issue to, because it will all become dealer only for everything.

A call centre in India telling you that they've reactivated your navigation unit when it clearly doesn't work isn't going to cut it. And you don't have to look too far for Tesla owners unsuccessfully trying to get refunds for subscriptions to things when the car spends three months at a dealer awaiting a warranty repair. On this point the practice actually seems to be sit on the car until the warranty runs out, then return the car saying that it is no longer under warranty...

Yeh, monthly subscription is a daft idea (but then isn't that how a good proportion of the current generation live - monthly wage into the bank and every penny going out on DD's to support their lifestyle choices??!!), but a one off payment to enable an option could be a goer. I suspect that third parties will find work arounds to using the official BMW route to code in options.... just as long as you never take the car to a BMW dealer you'll be fine LOL.

I guess the call centre you get could depend on the level of subscription you pay for... I know back in the day Orange contract phone subscribers got through to UK call centres whereas PAYG subscribers went to the nearest 'follow the sun' call centre, these days companies often choose the cheapest possible option for parts and support as it's the only way they can match their competitors and show profits on the balance sheet.... which is all the bean counters care about at the end of the day.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

[Doctor Gollum]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

Which presumably bricks the car.

[VXL V6]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

Which presumably bricks the car.

Well I would imagine it will be done through BMW connected which no-one apart from the first owner for the first year ever bothers with. When you pair a handset with the car you have to enable data services for connected to make the data connection for it's online services, on most vehicles that's a tick box menu option (certainly on the NBT iDrive version in my car which has the latest software on it - required to run 2021-1 and above maps). I don't think 'bricking' the car would be allowed in this country for a multitude of safety reasons especially when, as previously stated, disabling a car is not allowed.

[Doctor Gollum]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

Which presumably bricks the car.

Well I would imagine it will be done through BMW connected which no-one apart from the first owner for the first year ever bothers with. When you pair a handset with the car you have to enable data services for connected to make the data connection for it's online services, on most vehicles that's a tick box menu option (certainly on the NBT iDrive version in my car which has the latest software on it - required to run 2021-1 and above maps). I don't think 'bricking' the car would be allowed in this country for a multitude of safety reasons especially when, as previously stated, disabling a car is not allowed.

Because nobody in a call centre has ever clicked the wrong box...

[Marks DTM Calib]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

Which presumably bricks the car.

No it returns it to the original Car Confog File and feature set 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Bit more fundamental than that, the cars have what is called a digital twin, so the config is onboard and offboard. This can get aligned over the air at anytime so just avoiding a dealer won't work, you also need to ditch the connectivity

Which presumably bricks the car.

Well I would imagine it will be done through BMW connected which no-one apart from the first owner for the first year ever bothers with. When you pair a handset with the car you have to enable data services for connected to make the data connection for it's online services, on most vehicles that's a tick box menu option (certainly on the NBT iDrive version in my car which has the latest software on it - required to run 2021-1 and above maps). I don't think 'bricking' the car would be allowed in this country for a multitude of safety reasons especially when, as previously stated, disabling a car is not allowed.

Latest BMWs are permanently connected, independent of the BMW connected bit, via the inbuilt TCU (usually attached to the base of the sharkfin on BMWs). So there is effectively a car and customer connection capability.

Interestingly if you nobble connectivity on a Tesla, it absolutely will not do anything, similarly if you bugger with certain modules (ask our grads who tore one down  )

[Doctor Gollum]

Tesla are much like Apple in that respect.

[TheBoy]

Tesla are much like Apple in that respect.

Thats unfair. Apple products generally work, for the most part.

[Doctor Gollum]

Tesla are much like Apple in that respect.

Thats unfair. Apple products generally work, for the most part.

Until you want to fix them

Although my imminent Crapple contact is forced. It's going to be harder than the safety training

Although, at least when I break it, work will have to fix it

[TheBoy]

iPhones and iPads aren't too bad to fix TBH.  About the same as the majority of others.  The biggest issue is the utter crap quality of all aftermarket batteries (which is the only thing that tends to fail if you can avoid smashing the screen).

Classic iPods tend to break case clips as they go brittle after about 10 years.

Butterfly keyboards on about 4 years of their laptops, we'll skim over that snafu