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[Tony H]

Just got in from my annual session of cooking lunches for the homeless at the local Christmas shelter. As title states the number of guests was up on last year. I recognised at lot of old faces but quite disturbingly quite a few new ones. A sad reflection of the state of the nation at the moment.

[Johnny English]

Seems homeless' number to be up not only in Britain but in the EU's most country that shows  general status of the community. Sincere congratulations for your charitas activity though. 

[bored bigyin54]

Just got in from my annual session of cooking lunches for the homeless at the local Christmas shelter. As title states the number of guests was up on last year. I recognised at lot of old faces but quite disturbingly quite a few new ones. A sad reflection of the state of the nation at the moment.

dont help when this goverment tell you to find a job,and there isnt any jobs

[omega3000]

More and more food banks opening all over the place , it is a sad time for those in need with little help . Well done on doing your bit to help 

[zirk]

hats off to you Tony for giving up your time this time of year 

[PhilRich]

hats off to you Tony for giving up your time this time of year 

+1

[Marks DTM Calib]

Just got in from my annual session of cooking lunches for the homeless at the local Christmas shelter. As title states the number of guests was up on last year. I recognised at lot of old faces but quite disturbingly quite a few new ones. A sad reflection of the state of the nation at the moment.

dont help when this goverment tell you to find a job,and there isnt any jobs

Cant say I have seen that, might not be ones you would want to do but there are jobs

[Andy B]

Just got in from my annual session of cooking lunches for the homeless at the local Christmas shelter. As title states the number of guests was up on last year. I recognised at lot of old faces but quite disturbingly quite a few new ones. A sad reflection of the state of the nation at the moment.

dont help when this goverment tell you to find a job,and there isnt any jobs

Cant say I have seen that, might not be ones you would want to do but there are jobs

Not everyone has a bucket full qualifications or a 'trade' though Mark

[Marks DTM Calib]

Just got in from my annual session of cooking lunches for the homeless at the local Christmas shelter. As title states the number of guests was up on last year. I recognised at lot of old faces but quite disturbingly quite a few new ones. A sad reflection of the state of the nation at the moment.

dont help when this goverment tell you to find a job,and there isnt any jobs

Cant say I have seen that, might not be ones you would want to do but there are jobs

Not everyone has a bucket full qualifications or a 'trade' though Mark

Not what I am saying Andy, the jobs that are around here are in the likes of Pizza Factory and others, they simply cant get enough staff to do the work. Some are minimum wage and some are shifts but its still work.

[tunnie]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

[RobG]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

[tunnie]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

[RobG]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

Now why am I not surprised by that comment. 

[tunnie]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

Now why am I not surprised by that comment. 

Thought people might like that

I've never been handed any benefits, if people are fit and able to work they should. Problem is there are not jobs people want.

[RobG]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

Now why am I not surprised by that comment. 

Thought people might like that

I've never been handed any benefits, if people are fit and able to work they should. Problem is there are not jobs people want.

Maybe you`ve been fortunate as to have never had to rely on them Mark.
"There but for the grace of God"

[albitz]

People who have a good work history and lost their jobs should have as reasonable a level of benifits as the country can afford to give them imo.Its easy for someone in a well paid secure job to talk of reducing benefits.Perhaps they will feel different in the future if they ever have the misfortune to fall on hard times.
The problem with benefits imo is those who have made it a career choice and have no intention of working.If we could devise a system of proving their intentions then I would starve the bastids into working.
Also cant agree with govt forcing the minimum wage up either tbh. Many companies are struggling to keep their heads above water these days,and that would put them out of business.The free market must decide wage levels.Any other route is the road to ruin in the longer term.

[Lazydocker]

Good on you Tony, it is a sign of the times though

As for the off topic discussion that has started:

There are, in most parts of the country (but not all), jobs out there. Trouble is people don't want to flip burgers or clean toilets for minimum wage

Since losing my job last September I haven't claimed any benefits even though I now earn in a month what I used to earn in a week (if I get paid!) I am entitled to income support but can survive without it so see no point in claiming

Ok, I was in a fortunate position that I could start the business, but there is work out there

[bored bigyin54]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

i wish you go on it for 4 weeks. then you know what your talking about  some one who never been on it dont know

[bored bigyin54]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

Now why am I not surprised by that comment. 

+1 rob i wish
 

[bored bigyin54]

The problem is being on benefits, is almost as good as working for basic wage. There is no incentive for some people to work

Benefits aren`t the problem Mark, and the basic (minimum) wage is just that. For basic read "just existing not living". If the government made the minimum wage more attractive than the benefit rates people would be more inclined to actively seek work.

Better still, reduce benefits, make wage look more attractive.

Now why am I not surprised by that comment. 

Thought people might like that

I've never been handed any benefits, if people are fit and able to work they should. Problem is there are not jobs people want.

Maybe you`ve been fortunate as to have never had to rely on them Mark.
"There but for the grace of God"

well said rob 

[bored bigyin54]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

[Lazydocker]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

Yours is a different situation though, and one I understand

You aren't out of work because you want to be (I assume), but because you are prevented from working by your GP

And, to be fair, Tunnie did say "if they are fit and healthy"

[bored bigyin54]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

Yours is a different situation though, and one I understand

You aren't out of work because you want to be (I assume), but because you are prevented from working by your GP

And, to be fair, Tunnie did say "if they are fit and healthy"

but some people cant find work . because there there is no work . my son cant find work, they say find a job . all i can say where in my head i can do any but my body wont let me

[tunnie]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

As Lazydocker has reminded you, I said if you are "fit and healthy" there is no reason why you should not be able to find work.

I mentioned nothing about people with medical conditions preventing them working, in fact I know quite a few people who want to work, but are being told not to by doctors.

A very good friend of mine was recently on benefits, as he was made redundant. But he was a smart chap and saved for such an occasion, nothing like a 90% drop in income to make you find another job.

He was out there every day, applying to 100's of jobs, going to interviews. He did not rest until he was in work again, as it happens I got him a position at BSkyB.

It was not the job he wanted to do,  he was a Director, now he is just a manager, so the money was not what he wanted. But it was a job and good money, so he took it.

In my opinion a lot of people who say work is not out there, just don't want to do the jobs that are available.

[TheBoy]

There certainly are jobs out there in my experience. I know retail is not everyone's cup of tea, but my bro has real trouble getting staff.

In fairness, not lack of people applying, but most CVs end up shredded before he's finished reading them, due to appalling grammar, spelling and punctuation. He is, rightly IMHO, of the opinion, if they can't be arsed to put effort into a CV, he can't be arsed to read them. The number that he receives that are written like "I want this job bcoz it wud b gud 4 me and 4 u". Binned. Those that get to interviews, it seems a lot of school/uni leavers think the world owes them, and that they will be able to sit on Facebook all day.

Because I work in IT, we have loads of school leavers and gap-year people wanting to join us, without pay (fair play to them) to get experience. But with a few exceptions, many don't want to actually get up off their arses, and want to sit playing games all day.

I think the problem with school leavers, and to a lesser extent, uni leavers, is the education system does not prepare them for work.


As to benefits, their are plenty of people claiming good money because they either don't want to do the jobs offered, or simply because they do not want to work.  Tunnie does present a valid point, but doesn't get it over very well.

Albs hit the nail on the head, we need to be able to pick out the lame and the lazy from the needy, and do something that way. "No jobs" isn't valid IME, more "No jobs what I want to do for the money I think I deserve". But we must not forget the truely needy.

[tunnie]

Tunnie does present a valid point, but doesn't get it over very well.

Not for the first time 

[scottambrose]

it will only get worse computers take alot of jobs away from people and the populations always rising take tesco for example or one has 10 self service checkouts with one person keeping an eye on them. thats a job that would have been taken by 10 people 5 years ago

[Entwood]

it will only get worse computers take alot of jobs away from people and the populations always rising take tesco for example or one has 10 self service checkouts with one person keeping an eye on them. thats a job that would have been taken by 10 people 5 years ago

Which is how Tesco's can sell stuff cheaply ... the "human" is the most expensive commodity for a company ..  The ten folks you quote are actually  probably ...

10 for one shift, plus 10 for the second shift plus 10 to cover for holidays and sickness  = 30
30 more employees means at least one more manager, one more person in the "personnel dept" and probably one more in "wages" ... so that's the wages and insurance for for 34 folks.

Then they all need uniforms, feeding, drinks, which are more ancillary costs... all of which have to be paid for by an increase on the goods you buy ....

Nothing happens for nothing in this world .. and a lack of common sense seems to proliferate ...

A comments from a (stupid) relative over the holiday ...  " It's disgusting that my neighbour has to work over Christmas, everyone should have the holiday with family" .. 30 minutes later ... "I went to the shop and the queues were stupid, where are the staff, I don't want to spend half my day queuing" .... DOH .....

[aaronjb]

I know retail is not everyone's cup of tea, but my bro has real trouble getting staff.

Indeed - Amy works for a charity as an assistant store manager, they've been interviewing for the manager position in that store for six months now and still haven't found someone who will a) take the job at the salary they're offering (which isn't bad by any stretch - it's almost what I earnt when I started my current job) and b) they think could actually do the job..

We have the same problem finding technically qualified people here (as I know you've said you do there, too) and the ones we do find invariably want stacks and stacks of cash.

[tunnie]

it will only get worse computers take alot of jobs away from people and the populations always rising take tesco for example or one has 10 self service checkouts with one person keeping an eye on them. thats a job that would have been taken by 10 people 5 years ago

It goes around in circles though, a company has to build and sell those machines to Tesco. The interface has to be designed and be updated, companies need to provide the components that go into it, screens, boards ect.

So jobs maybe lost there, but I bet many else are created behind the scenes 

[albitz]

Thats assuming the machines are made in the U.K. which isnt that likely tbh.
Going back to the point about benefits etc. Imo its the age old argument about the deserving and undeserving poor (the chavs and chav nots  ). To me its basic common sense that there are people who are in dire straits through no fault of their own,and those who are bone idle.The bone idle deserve no help from the taxpayer imo,and I would imagine most right thinking people would feel the same way.
There was a shift in thinking from the powers that be somewhere along the line though,which gradually allowed this distinction to disappear,and we have now arrived at the point where the currrent lot are being labelled cruel,heartless rich boys for trying to introduce a system where benifits are limited to an amount that someone in work would have to earn almost £40k p.a. to be able to have the same income.
Its ludicrous and may well bring us to the point (unless someone conjures up some serious growth very soon) that those who genuinely deserve our help wont be able to get it,because there is no money to give them,and it has become too expensive to borrow it.
Then there are people like me,who can very easily become very badly stuck if they lose their job due to not being qualified to do anything in particular.Qualifications rather than experience seem to count for so much these days.
I hated school,was a rebel without a clue and left school before I was legally allowed to and without a single qualification.
I deeply regretted it within a few years,but in those days it wasnt such a big deal as it is now.If you were willing to physically graft you could still do ok,but those types of jobs are becoming ever more scarce as traditional manufacturing jobs are a smaller part of the economy in this country.
Theres no perfect answer,but people of my age group who have some of their working life left are often in a bit of a precarious position.

[tunnie]

and those who are bone idle.The bone idle deserve no help from the taxpayer imo,and I would imagine most right thinking people would feel the same way.

Thats key problem

[bored bigyin54]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

As Lazydocker has reminded you, I said if you are "fit and healthy" there is no reason why you should not be able to find work.

I mentioned nothing about people with medical conditions preventing them working, in fact I know quite a few people who want to work, but are being told not to by doctors.

A very good friend of mine was recently on benefits, as he was made redundant. But he was a smart chap and saved for such an occasion, nothing like a 90% drop in income to make you find another job.

He was out there every day, applying to 100's of jobs, going to interviews. He did not rest until he was in work again, as it happens I got him a position at BSkyB.

It was not the job he wanted to do,  he was a Director, now he is just a manager, so the money was not what he wanted. But it was a job and good money, so he took it.

In my opinion a lot of people who say work is not out there, just don't want to do the jobs that are available.

its ok when you got friends who can find you a job . so he didnt find it on his own and he had a good job before hand  ???and if he had savings he wont have got benefits

[tunnie]

i wish people who dont know what they are talking about would keep their comments to them self , until they know what their talkin about . until then keep quiet  i wish i could go to work but the doctors wont let me . so some one who has never been in this situation should keep quiet . i can say it different but i wont , because i am getting angery now.

As Lazydocker has reminded you, I said if you are "fit and healthy" there is no reason why you should not be able to find work.

I mentioned nothing about people with medical conditions preventing them working, in fact I know quite a few people who want to work, but are being told not to by doctors.

A very good friend of mine was recently on benefits, as he was made redundant. But he was a smart chap and saved for such an occasion, nothing like a 90% drop in income to make you find another job.

He was out there every day, applying to 100's of jobs, going to interviews. He did not rest until he was in work again, as it happens I got him a position at BSkyB.

It was not the job he wanted to do,  he was a Director, now he is just a manager, so the money was not what he wanted. But it was a job and good money, so he took it.

In my opinion a lot of people who say work is not out there, just don't want to do the jobs that are available.

its ok when you got friends who can find you a job . so he didnt find it on his own and he had a good job before hand 

He had interviews and was offered other jobs, but the BSkyB offered best for him.

He was a Director at Mobile Entertainment company, same one I used to work for. But he was made redundant, just before Christmas last year. Why can I ask, by not finding it himself does that make you angry? 

My point is, there are jobs available for people who want to work. But they are often not at the level (pay) or in the area they want.

[bored bigyin54]

More and more food banks opening all over the place , it is a sad time for those in need with little help . Well done on doing your bit to help 

going back to the 1920 . when the lib's had some power then