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[tgm147]

Hi guys.

Been looking at the next set of mods for the car now the exhaust is booked in and the suspension is all sorted. The car currently makes 181bhp on petrol and 160... something on gas, but I'm looking to buy another engine to take this further in the future. I'm a marine engineering student so this would be a little mini project to do on the side. Don't fancy the idea of super/turbo charging it so cams would be the next port of call. Much past that I'd be starting to think about the pistons and crank.

Has anyone ever built a big (ish) power 2.2? Know there's loads for the VX220 but not the same 2.2!

EDIT - can find a screenshot of the rolling road run if anyone's interested!

Cheers

[martin42]

have you had it remapped,as that helps,also another route would be to use nitrous with a progressive controlled,W.O.N kits are the best to use,n.o.s kits are crap and to agressive,several members on the puma forum are using these kits with good results extra 50bhp and thats on the 1.7 vct engines,all depends on how well the engine has been maintained aswell before going down this route.

[Kevin Wood]

Not sure why you'd go to the expense of tuning a 2.2 when swapping to a V6 will give you so much more power pretty much for free?

The z22xe has such a long stroke that I think getting it to rev higher would end badly. IMHO, if you're set on a tuned 4 pot, swapping it for a C20XE would be the best plan.

[tgm147]

Not sure why you'd go to the expense of tuning a 2.2 when swapping to a V6 will give you so much more power pretty much for free?

The z22xe has such a long stroke that I think getting it to rev higher would end badly. IMHO, if you're set on a tuned 4 pot, swapping it for a C20XE would be the best plan.

Purely down to the challenge of it. I know I could stick a V6 in it and have an instant boost but I'm after this for the technical challenge of getting what I can out of it.

I had looked at remapping but I've yet to find anywhere that'll do a 2.2!

[tunnie]

If you want power, get a V6, if you want even more power, get a VXR8 or stick a V8 lump in.

I've still got a 2.2, had it for 7 years, defend it to the last, great engines, reliable easy peasy to work on, but powerful they are not and its bit pointless spending big bucks just to get it to the same power as a 2.6/2.5 V6!

[twiglet]

Agree with the sentiment Tunnie, but the OP is doing this as a technical exercise and also (I assume) to gain engineering knowledge to help with his studies.  Not that dissimilar to what Webby is doing with Ralf.

OOF is supporting Webby in his efforts, and we should do the same here.

Certainly agree with Kevin's suggestion of using an XE though.  If nothing else, the engines and tuning parts are readily available.  Would make playing with it cheaper if you are on a budget.

Good luck with it I say. 

[2woody]

the XE and the 2.2 are practically identical at the top end, so any XE stuff should work. I'd start with the head and inlet system, then exhaust - cams last of all. the cam profile is where you choose the "shape" of the power curve, lumpier cams moving the curve upwards, to where the bottom end won't like it.

indeed, the XE and the 2.2 are only really different in that the 2.2 has balance shafts to stop it shaking itself to bits in view of the extra stroke.

for power reasons, by far the best place to start is with a 2.0 ( non balance-shaft engine )

[Vamps]

Interesting, are we saying the 2.0L is better than the 2.2L? and that it is more tunable?
What can be done to the 2.0L to make it go? and could it be faster than a V6?  Got me thinking about a little project now as I have a spare 2.0L worth little money.............

[doz]

Dump the standard injection system. Convert to throttle bodies and a stand alone ECU. Maybe even use bike throttle bodies. Proper porting of the head. See if there's enough room for bigger valves. Use different cams. Change compression ratio with different pistons or you could deck the block of face the head to increase it. Lighten and balance bottom end including fly wheel and clutch cover. Ancillaries will need improving.  Oil pump/water pump. After you've done all that your student loan will seem very small to what you've paid out on ya enjin 

[Kevin Wood]

Yep, or go forced induction.

TBH, the latter is the only route I'd consider if it's going in an Omega.

By and large, for a naturally aspirated engine, assuming any glaring deficiencies have been ironed out of the induction and exhaust systems, power is proportional to revs. To get more power you need to make it rev higher, hence why the 2.2 would be a bad place to start, because the extra capacity was made by increasing the stroke, and piston speeds will get very high when you're revving it high.

Assuming it breathes well enough to make more power at higher revs (it will, as said, need porting, and might well need bigger valves) you need cams that will shift the power band higher in the rev range to exploit it. There's a tradeoff here because that will lose you torque at lower revs (as will fitting throttle bodies with a short intake tract). With a 1700kg car, torque at low revs is important.

Don't get me wrong, I went the route doz suggests with the Zetec in my Westfield and I love it. A 2L lump producing IRO 200 BHP is lovely when kept on the boil, and has enough at low revs for 650kg, but add an extra tonne of car to lug around and it'd be a bit tiresome.

Go the forced induction route and you'll get plenty of torque at lowish revs, as long as you fit a turbo that'll spin up reasonably low in the rev range. Maybe the setup from a C20LET? Problem is, the engine is rather high compression in standard form, so you'd need to reduce that before you even start. Might need forged pistons, stronger rods, etc...

[aaronjb]

I think if I was aiming for 'big' power but still streetable in a heavy car, I'd probably be looking at Rotrex superchargers rather than turbo charging; you get to run more boost without the penalty of a truck load of lag at the bottom end thanks to the lack of displacement. And bottom end lag would get annoying in a heavy car pretty fast..

Only downside being the 'progressive' build of boost related to engine RPM, so there's no 'thump in the back' like a big turbo spooling up. Which is always fun 

[Kevin Wood]

I think if I was aiming for 'big' power but still streetable in a heavy car, I'd probably be looking at Rotrex superchargers rather than turbo charging; you get to run more boost without the penalty of a truck load of lag at the bottom end thanks to the lack of displacement. And bottom end lag would get annoying in a heavy car pretty fast..

Only downside being the 'progressive' build of boost related to engine RPM, so there's no 'thump in the back' like a big turbo spooling up. Which is always fun 

True, supercharger might be an interesting option, and eliminates the need to mess about with the exhaust system too, so might well be less work as long as it's straightforward to find somewhere to mount it.

[aaronjb]

There must be bags of space under the bonnet of a 2.0 or 2.2 and the rotrex, being essentially one half of a turbo (just the compressor side with a wheel & small gearbox where the turbine would be) is pretty small and easy to pipe

Cheaper and more efficient than a screw compressor, too, which is a bonus.

[tgm147]

Cheers guys! Lots of food for thought! I had discounted forced induction because of the cost but as long as the parts aren't damaged I have no issue with using second hand parts. The idea currently is to pick up another solid 2.2 engine and work with that. The current engine has over 160k on it so it's not going to take kindly to another large power increase. Once the new engine is sorted I'll transfer some parts over. The engine already has a ported and polished head, inlet manifold and throttle body so for now until major things happen, these will go onto the new engine.

Thanks a lot guys!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Must be plenty of jag or merc superchargers in the scrap yards.

Fit the Z20LT pistons and add in the oil jets and away you go!

[i260]

Not sure why you'd go to the expense of tuning a 2.2 when swapping to a V6 will give you so much more power pretty much for free?

The z22xe has such a long stroke that I think getting it to rev higher would end badly. IMHO, if you're set on a tuned 4 pot, swapping it for a C20XE would be the best plan.

Purely down to the challenge of it. I know I could stick a V6 in it and have an instant boost but I'm after this for the technical challenge of getting what I can out of it.

I had looked at remapping but I've yet to find anywhere that'll do a 2.2!

Try John Robbins here:

http://www.dnatuning.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=303

I had a 2.3 V5 golf done by him and it was great - razor sharp throttle and much better revving through the range. NEver going to be mind blowing but +15bhp and +19lb/ft on a std 2.2 seems fair for £295!?

[tgm147]

Not sure why you'd go to the expense of tuning a 2.2 when swapping to a V6 will give you so much more power pretty much for free?

The z22xe has such a long stroke that I think getting it to rev higher would end badly. IMHO, if you're set on a tuned 4 pot, swapping it for a C20XE would be the best plan.

Purely down to the challenge of it. I know I could stick a V6 in it and have an instant boost but I'm after this for the technical challenge of getting what I can out of it.

I had looked at remapping but I've yet to find anywhere that'll do a 2.2!

Try John Robbins here:

http://www.dnatuning.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=149&Itemid=303

I had a 2.3 V5 golf done by him and it was great - razor sharp throttle and much better revving through the range. NEver going to be mind blowing but +15bhp and +19lb/ft on a std 2.2 seems fair for £295!?

Cheers dude! I'll be getting in touch with him and see if he has actually done a 2.2 Omega before. A lot of places just thought it was the same 2.2 as they put in the Vectra and VX220 but its an entirely different engine and ECU. We shall see!

Thanks again.